CelticsStrong

Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: Roy H. on June 20, 2018, 11:58:37 AM

Title: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Roy H. on June 20, 2018, 11:58:37 AM
Really interesting article:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23847072/zach-lowe-kawhi-leonard-jaylen-brown-celtics-spurs-trades
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: saltlover on June 20, 2018, 12:10:41 PM
Good read, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: celticinorlando on June 20, 2018, 12:11:40 PM
Brown needs to get ball strong in traffic going to the rim. He had a lot of strips
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on June 20, 2018, 12:24:16 PM
Nice appreciation for the nuances:

Quote
Brown is a monster athlete, but his explosiveness doesn't translate into games as much as it should. That will change as he hones his feel and his jumper. Skills are not discrete things. They interact. One skill amplifies or diminishes another. As Brown becomes more confident and anticipatory with the ball, his athleticism will sing louder. He will gain separation more easily.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: boscel33 on June 20, 2018, 12:30:20 PM
Welcome to the dance Zach Lowe.  I, plus others on this board,  have been comparing the two for a couple of years now.  I thought Brown was the next Kawhi coming out of college.  The scouting reports were eerily similar....
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: 18isGREATERthan72 on June 20, 2018, 12:32:42 PM
With the uncertainty of Kawhi resigning and the fact that he hardly played last year I still lean toward just keeping Brown.

I won't put the monstrous expectations of becoming the next Kawhi on Brown, but his current production is encouraging and if he stays largely the same with Tatum ascending to a superstar level and Kyrie resigning with Hayward in the mix, I can live with Brown being our fourth best scoring option...  All while being significantly more affordable, younger, and without the unknown injury.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: keevsnick on June 20, 2018, 12:39:35 PM
Nice article as always from Lowe. Ultimately he reaches what is probably the right conclusion, you probably should include Jaylen in a Kawhi trade. But I wouldn't. He brings up many of he things Jaylen supporter (myself included) like to talk when we discuss his upside. He is not as bad of a ball handler as people make him out to be, as Lowe points out he has some nascent feel for keeping defenders on his hip, hitting pull up jumpers and even some nice dribble moves. He problems come more from not quite having the feel for the game, its not that he doesn't have the dribble its that he doesn't know how to use it yet. And I'm very confident he will improve that, most young players do. Its a matter of how much. Jaylen could be an All NBA level player, no guarantees but I'd roll with what we got and risk it.


Ultimately I think people forget that the kid was just 21. He was billed as a raw project who coming out of college and in year 2 was one of the top two options (Tatum and him alternated) on an ECF team. He's made as much progress as you could ask for.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Roy H. on June 20, 2018, 12:47:47 PM
Remember when Zach Lowe wrote for CelticsHub.com?  This is the type of material that he was writing then that got him gigs at SI and ESPN.  I love to see the Celtic-centric material.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: tarheelsxxiii on June 20, 2018, 12:55:23 PM
Remember when Zach Lowe wrote for CelticsHub.com?  This is the type of material that he was writing then that got him gigs at SI and ESPN.  I love to see the Celtic-centric material.

Yup.  He's a fine writer, too.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Jiri Welsch on June 20, 2018, 01:04:49 PM
I really don’t want Kawhi. At some point we need to have an off-season where we keep our guys...
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 01:04:53 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy. 
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: JBcat on June 20, 2018, 01:06:02 PM
I see 2 things from this article that could prevent Brown from being quite like Kawhi which is Kawhi’s enormous wingspan and giant hands (allowing him to be stronger with the ball).  One adavantage Brown has at this stage is shooting non corner 3’s better.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: DefenseWinsChamps on June 20, 2018, 01:10:32 PM
Brown's eurostep and off-hand are both better than Leonard's at the same stage.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: fairweatherfan on June 20, 2018, 01:14:18 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.

Aside from the FTs, aren't these all issues Kawhi had to overcome as he developed his offensive game?

Agree that we shouldn't expect Brown to reach the DPOY/Finals MVP/Likely Top 5 player level Kawhi got to before the injury but they really don't seem that dissimilar to me.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: droopdog7 on June 20, 2018, 01:21:34 PM
Nice article as always from Lowe. Ultimately he reaches what is probably the right conclusion, you probably should include Jaylen in a Kawhi trade. But I wouldn't. He brings up many of he things Jaylen supporter (myself included) like to talk when we discuss his upside. He is not as bad of a ball handler as people make him out to be, as Lowe points out he has some nascent feel for keeping defenders on his hip, hitting pull up jumpers and even some nice dribble moves. He problems come more from not quite having the feel for the game, its not that he doesn't have the dribble its that he doesn't know how to use it yet. And I'm very confident he will improve that, most young players do. Its a matter of how much. Jaylen could be an All NBA level player, no guarantees but I'd roll with what we got and risk it.


Ultimately I think people forget that the kid was just 21. He was billed as a raw project who coming out of college and in year 2 was one of the top two options (Tatum and him alternated) on an ECF team. He's made as much progress as you could ask for.
Sure, he’ll improve his feel for the game.  But he has below average feel for his age and experience.  How does he go from below average to average (or above), which he’ll need to become a star?
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Monkhouse on June 20, 2018, 01:29:28 PM
Nice article as always from Lowe. Ultimately he reaches what is probably the right conclusion, you probably should include Jaylen in a Kawhi trade. But I wouldn't. He brings up many of he things Jaylen supporter (myself included) like to talk when we discuss his upside. He is not as bad of a ball handler as people make him out to be, as Lowe points out he has some nascent feel for keeping defenders on his hip, hitting pull up jumpers and even some nice dribble moves. He problems come more from not quite having the feel for the game, its not that he doesn't have the dribble its that he doesn't know how to use it yet. And I'm very confident he will improve that, most young players do. Its a matter of how much. Jaylen could be an All NBA level player, no guarantees but I'd roll with what we got and risk it.


Ultimately I think people forget that the kid was just 21. He was billed as a raw project who coming out of college and in year 2 was one of the top two options (Tatum and him alternated) on an ECF team. He's made as much progress as you could ask for.
Sure, he’ll improve his feel for the game.  But he has below average feel for his age and experience.  How does he go from below average to average (or above), which he’ll need to become a star?

Simple.

It's called great coaching, and hard work ethic. Kawhi benefited greatly from being in a great system and position, a lot of people said Kawhi was a system reliant player, so we'll see how he pans out once he leaves SAS.. Kawhi wasn't even that good in college, and many presumably had him as the 8th best SF coming into the draft. His handles still aren't that great, but his ginormous hands/wingspan help make up for it. Jaylen has the athleticism to match that advantage.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: gift on June 20, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.


He may or may not improve from where he is now. But he noticeably improved from year 1 to year 2. So I wouldn't say it is fantasy.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: LilRip on June 20, 2018, 01:58:21 PM
Great read. Would really hate giving up either of Jaylen or Tatum, even if it is for someone as talented as Kawhi. That said, I’m glad I’m not the one making the big decisions. Perfectly content being a fan this time around.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Fafnir on June 20, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
Really great article. This entire Kawhi situation the past year has me out on trading for him, not unless what he and his uncle say in private with the C's is very different than I expect.

I really just want to see this C's team come back and actually play together now and see how much better Tatum/Brown can be. I loved this past season with the team, just refused to quit ever. I want to see them without the injuries.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 02:10:21 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.


He may or may not improve from where he is now. But he noticeably improved from year 1 to year 2. So I wouldn't say it is fantasy.

did he really ?  against the Cavs he got pick pocket driving to the hoop, one too many times.  He was still not all that comfortable driving  left. 

With some daylight he has a good enough straight line handle to get to the basket.  In transition, he has good enough straight line handle to make it all the way to the basket.  But in a crowded situation.... .   If he can get stronger it can help

Its ok if won't be able to handle the ball like Tatum or Lebron.  Iguadala is mainly a straight line drive guy and he is a very good player.  Brown should try to improve his handle but also accept limitations at some point.  His jump shot on the other hand.... there is much more room for improvement
 
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: The One on June 20, 2018, 02:17:40 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 02:20:18 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Sophomore on June 20, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.

Why is that a fantasy? He made improvements between year 1 and year 2 that were noticeable. He works hard, and I think many perimeter players improve their ballhandling after a few years in the league.

Will he ever be Kyrie? No. But nobody is Kyrie. I think he can (and likely will) get significantly better.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Rosco917 on June 20, 2018, 05:05:19 PM
Other than insignificant changes, I want to see how we do with what we have. I just hope for good health.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Big333223 on June 20, 2018, 05:42:13 PM
Lowe sums it up nicely at the end:

Quote
If everything lines up right -- and only then -- Leonard is good enough, and still young enough, that you probably hold your nose and deal Brown in exchange. If anything about Leonard feels off or unknowable, Boston can sit tight and feel fine. Brown is that intriguing.

This is basically how I feel, with the addition that I always like having homegrown talent so there are sentimental reasons for wanting to keep Brown (and for wanting Brown to succeed) that I have.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: liam on June 20, 2018, 05:58:28 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

Jaylen is a better two way player. I hope they push each other and both become superstars!

Jaylen had a better year last year than Kawhi.

The best ability is availability!
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: keevsnick on June 20, 2018, 06:22:43 PM
Nice article as always from Lowe. Ultimately he reaches what is probably the right conclusion, you probably should include Jaylen in a Kawhi trade. But I wouldn't. He brings up many of he things Jaylen supporter (myself included) like to talk when we discuss his upside. He is not as bad of a ball handler as people make him out to be, as Lowe points out he has some nascent feel for keeping defenders on his hip, hitting pull up jumpers and even some nice dribble moves. He problems come more from not quite having the feel for the game, its not that he doesn't have the dribble its that he doesn't know how to use it yet. And I'm very confident he will improve that, most young players do. Its a matter of how much. Jaylen could be an All NBA level player, no guarantees but I'd roll with what we got and risk it.


Ultimately I think people forget that the kid was just 21. He was billed as a raw project who coming out of college and in year 2 was one of the top two options (Tatum and him alternated) on an ECF team. He's made as much progress as you could ask for.
Sure, he’ll improve his feel for the game.  But he has below average feel for his age and experience.  How does he go from below average to average (or above), which he’ll need to become a star?

I dont think he has below average feel relative for "his age and experience." Relative to the league as a whole yes. But alot of guys his age need to improve in that area. He got alot better year one to year two, and he shows plenty of flashes. Whether its the pull up short jumper Lowe highlights to avoid contests  in the paint, kick out passes he starting to see (assists went up in 2nd half) or his much improved defense rotations. I think its a virtual guarantee he gets to average in that regard based on what he is and his obvious improvement already.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: td450 on June 20, 2018, 06:22:53 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses
Brown doesn't need to be able to do the same things Tatum does to be a better player.

Zach Lowe made the point that Brown is a monster athlete and that his athleticism will become more apparent as he develops his skills more. The gap between his raw athleticism and Tatum's is pretty significant. Brown is quicker and faster than anyone in the league who is his height or taller.

He does do some things better than Tatum already. He's on his way to being a dominant, all-NBA defender. He can finish through contact, which Tatum can't do very well yet, and he's quite good with either hand, which Tatum doesn't have at all.

He's also got an alpha dog mentality. He had a poor ECF game 7, but by and large he tends to play big against the best players.

If he learns to make better reads on where the help is coming from, and protect the ball better, he will be impossible to stop. Lots of younger players improve at these things. He might plateau, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as the teams best player.

Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: keevsnick on June 20, 2018, 06:31:37 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.

Why is that a fantasy? He made improvements between year 1 and year 2 that were noticeable. He works hard, and I think many perimeter players improve their ballhandling after a few years in the league.

Will he ever be Kyrie? No. But nobody is Kyrie. I think he can (and likely will) get significantly better.

Ya if you are telling me that any young guy has 0 shot at improving in an área you are wrong, regardless of who or what you are talking about. But in Jaylen's case there are reasons for optimism. First off he made improvements from last year when basically you didnt want him dribbling in b the paint. This year we were a screaming at him to drive cuz he got alot better in that area. Also he has some solid more advanced moves like lowe points out. Crossover, euro step, even an in and out dribble that got him open on that huge dunk on Kristaps. He is dynamite as a ball handler in transition, a skill that is often a precursor for ball handling as a whole. This isnt a situation like Ben Simmons where a guy doesnt even have a skill at all, he has some nice building blocks. And we've seen from his work out videos and such that he works on the on dribblibg, off hand finishing, ect. So yes, ge will get better. There is potential there.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Beat LA on June 20, 2018, 06:42:07 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At as right now, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: keevsnick on June 20, 2018, 06:45:30 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

Presumably it is since Tatum learned them somewhere.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Beat LA on June 20, 2018, 07:09:15 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

Presumably it is since Tatum learned them somewhere.

Yeah, I agree, it's just that I'm just not so sure that a guy can suddenly acquire elite footwork after, say, dedicating an entire summer to it, as I just think that if you aren't at least a very good ball handler, for example, by the time of the NBA draft, it's pretty unlikely that you're going to turn into Steph, Kyrie, or Joe Johnson, but maybe I'm wrong.

Still, I'd rather take a guy who has the handle, footwork, and post game, etc., but lacks a consistent jumper as opposed to drafting a dude who basically has to learn as to how to play the sport, you know, lol ;D?
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Sketch5 on June 20, 2018, 07:14:08 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.


He may or may not improve from where he is now. But he noticeably improved from year 1 to year 2. So I wouldn't say it is fantasy.

did he really ?  against the Cavs he got pick pocket driving to the hoop, one too many times.  He was still not all that comfortable driving  left. 

With some daylight he has a good enough straight line handle to get to the basket.  In transition, he has good enough straight line handle to make it all the way to the basket.  But in a crowded situation.... .   If he can get stronger it can help

Its ok if won't be able to handle the ball like Tatum or Lebron.  Iguadala is mainly a straight line drive guy and he is a very good player.  Brown should try to improve his handle but also accept limitations at some point.  His jump shot on the other hand.... there is much more room for improvement
 

I think he did improve quite a bit form year one to year two. I noticed in the Philly and CAVS series he digressed a bit with his handles. Maybe the hamstring kept him off balanced enough that his handles got sloppy, which would make sense for some one that is newly improved with them that an injury can effect them. Irving was getting picked a lot more near the end of the season before he got the surgery.

I don't expect Brown to dance with the ball, I think he just needs to tighten up the handles a bit, keep the ball closer to him. And then have a stronger cross over, and a hard quick drive.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Eddie20 on June 20, 2018, 07:47:50 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.

Triboy, I'm really curious as to what you're talking about. Think the game differently would insinuate that you're privy to both their thoughts, so can you please expand on this? This could be more intriguing than Lowe's article.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: keevsnick on June 20, 2018, 09:16:34 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

Presumably it is since Tatum learned them somewhere.

Yeah, I agree, it's just that I'm just not so sure that a guy can suddenly acquire elite footwork after, say, dedicating an entire summer to it, as I just think that if you aren't at least a very good ball handler, for example, by the time of the NBA draft, it's pretty unlikely that you're going to turn into Steph, Kyrie, or Joe Johnson, but maybe I'm wrong.

Still, I'd rather take a guy who has the handle, footwork, and post game, etc., but lacks a consistent jumper as opposed to drafting a dude who basically has to learn as to how to play the sport, you know, lol ;D?

For sure, I just think people have a tendency to undersell how much players improve their skill at the NBA level. Its their entire job now, they have access to resources and time (plus massive incentive) to get better and pretty much everyone needs to. Even Tatum who we would all agree is pretty a killed will need massive improvement to reach his ceiling. His handle isnt exactly elite, he can stones at the point of attacking if his first move fails, he loses the ball routinely on the drive and he needs to improve his finishing. But I think he will get better.

In Brown case he may not be as skilled, but he also wont need to reach Tatums level to be as good as Tatum. He is truly explosive which means even a better than average handle will make him unguardable. He doesnt need to be steph or irving cuz hes bigger and longer more explisive even, then those guys. Footwork matters alot less if the guy guarding you is behind you. Now gun to my head I think Tatum will be the better player, but im not counting out Brown. All the things he need to improve in are things he has at least shown flashes in, and hes shown himself capable of making a big leap, and improving as a season goes along. So we a shall see.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Eddie20 on June 20, 2018, 09:37:12 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully

(https://usatcelticswire.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/gettyimages-939463466.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1)
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: gouki88 on June 20, 2018, 09:40:52 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully

(https://usatcelticswire.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/gettyimages-939463466.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1)
Semi's participation in that play was executed perfectly
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 09:42:30 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

You act like every nba prospect or even vets can watch this "ball hog" video, practice with those gloves and eventually become an amazing ball handler.  Whats next, with practice it is not impossible to shoot like Steph Curry?

you are either gullible to this type of marketing or overly optimistic


Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: nickagneta on June 20, 2018, 10:02:46 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: sirnastee on June 20, 2018, 10:29:36 PM
They are not similar.... body type, explosiveness, shooting mechanics,  think the game differently.  Defensive versatility is the only one thing in common, but Kawhi is a step ahead of course

Brown needs to "calm" his mind in crucial situations and focus on taking the right shot/making the correct play.  Needs to improve on jump shot/FT shot.  Be assertive when attacking the basket

Expecting him to noticeably improve handles is a fantasy.


He may or may not improve from where he is now. But he noticeably improved from year 1 to year 2. So I wouldn't say it is fantasy.

did he really ?  against the Cavs he got pick pocket driving to the hoop, one too many times.  He was still not all that comfortable driving  left. 

With some daylight he has a good enough straight line handle to get to the basket.  In transition, he has good enough straight line handle to make it all the way to the basket.  But in a crowded situation.... .   If he can get stronger it can help

Its ok if won't be able to handle the ball like Tatum or Lebron.  Iguadala is mainly a straight line drive guy and he is a very good player.  Brown should try to improve his handle but also accept limitations at some point.  His jump shot on the other hand.... there is much more room for improvement
 

I think he did improve quite a bit form year one to year two. I noticed in the Philly and CAVS series he digressed a bit with his handles. Maybe the hamstring kept him off balanced enough that his handles got sloppy, which would make sense for some one that is newly improved with them that an injury can effect them. Irving was getting picked a lot more near the end of the season before he got the surgery.

I don't expect Brown to dance with the ball, I think he just needs to tighten up the handles a bit, keep the ball closer to him. And then have a stronger cross over, and a hard quick drive.

Totally agree with this.  Brown significantly improved his handles this past year and it showed during the regular season.  It was just against philly and cavs when it seemed like he was constantly getting stripped during the drive.  Maybe the defenses made it a point to go after the strip, but jaylen definitely improved his handles and shooting from year 1. 
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Beat LA on June 20, 2018, 10:35:35 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

You act like every nba prospect or even vets can watch this "ball hog" video, practice with those gloves and eventually become an amazing ball handler.  Whats next, with practice it is not impossible to shoot like Steph Curry?

you are either gullible to this type of marketing or overly optimistic

That's actually the complete opposite of what I am saying, but whatever ::).
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: nickagneta on June 20, 2018, 10:40:33 PM
In the playoffs, Brown had less overall turnovers, less per game turnovers, and a lower turnover percentage by a fairly significant margin than Tatum.

And Tatum and Brown finished at the rim at the exact same 63.9% rate. So I don't see how anyone can claim Brown somehow was bad going to the basket in the playoffs without being just as skepticle of Tatum's abilities.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Beat LA on June 20, 2018, 10:45:53 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

In fairness, all too often both Brown and Tatum continue to dribble on the same side as the nearby help defense, if not opting to dribble into it, entirely, and the results aren't exactly pretty, lol ;D.

On another front, if the three isn't dropping for the both/either of them, I'd like to see those two try to get to the line or post up or something else as opposed to just continuing to chuck shots from beyond the arc because analytics, lol ::) ;D. Ugh.

Get a layup, a foul, or something else easier and then your three point shot will start dropping, but to continue to just bomb away from three, and especially when you can't seem to throw it in the ocean from the beach, so to speak, is beyond stupid, imo.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 10:48:52 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

So how come Brown went 1-5 and scored 2 pts in game 7 vs Bucks?

And we all know what happened vs the Cavs

Small sample but nervous two game 7s in a row?

Tatum on the other hand doesnt seem to bow down to this kind pressure (for the most part). I mean two solid game 7 performances

Both are nice young talents. Matter of fact seems like Tatum is a cold starter and Brown usually starts strong. And it seems like this trend flips as the game goes on.  There is a higher value placed on closers/come through in clutch talents

So this is why Tatum is considered(fans, media) pretty much untouchable and Brown has been involved in recent trade talks (rumor, media etc)
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: nickagneta on June 20, 2018, 10:53:53 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

In fairness, all too often both Brown and Tatum continue to dribble on the same side as the nearby help defense, if not opting to dribble into it, entirely, and the results aren't exactly pretty, lol ;D.

On another front, if the three isn't dropping for the both/either of them, I'd like to see those two try to get to the line or post up or something else as opposed to just continuing to chuck shots from beyond the arc because analytics, lol ::) ;D. Ugh.

Get a layup, a foul, or something else easier and then your three point shot will start dropping, but to continue to just bomb away from three, and especially when you can't seem to throw it in the ocean from the beach, so to speak, is beyond stupid, imo.
Depends on how open a three each have, IMO. If you have a wide open three or one created by a designed play where you have that opening and the coach called the play for you, you take that shot no matter how cold you are. You live with those types of misses and don't discourage the shooter from being a shooter. Otherwise, don't force the issue and try other ways to score or contribute as a whole.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Phantom255x on June 20, 2018, 10:55:27 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

So how come Brown went 1-5 and scored 2 pts in game 7 vs Bucks?

And we all know what happened vs the Cavs

Small sample but nervous two game 7s in a row?

Tatum on the other hand doesnt seem to bow down to this kind pressure (for the most part). I mean two solid game 7 performances

Both are nice young talents. Matter of fact seems like Tatum is a cold starter and Brown usually starts strong. And it seems like it becomes the opposite as the game goes on.  There is a higher value placed on closers/come through in clutch talents

So this is why Tatum is considered(fans, media) pretty much untouchable and Brown has been involved in recent trade talks (rumor, media etc)

Yep, you CLEARLY DID NOT watch Game 7 vs Bucks.

If you did, you'd know Jaylen left in the 2nd quarter to injury (hamstring) and never returned...  ::)
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: SparzWizard on June 20, 2018, 11:05:22 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

So how come Brown went 1-5 and scored 2 pts in game 7 vs Bucks?

And we all know what happened vs the Cavs

Small sample but nervous two game 7s in a row?

Tatum on the other hand doesnt seem to bow down to this kind pressure (for the most part). I mean two solid game 7 performances

Both are nice young talents. Matter of fact seems like Tatum is a cold starter and Brown usually starts strong. And it seems like it becomes the opposite as the game goes on.  There is a higher value placed on closers/come through in clutch talents

So this is why Tatum is considered(fans, media) pretty much untouchable and Brown has been involved in recent trade talks (rumor, media etc)

Yep, you CLEARLY DID NOT watch Game 7 vs Bucks.

If you did, you'd know Jaylen left in the 2nd quarter to injury (hamstring) and never returned...  ::)

Indeed. So triboy's argument here is invalid!
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: nickagneta on June 20, 2018, 11:08:45 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

So how come Brown went 1-5 and scored 2 pts in game 7 vs Bucks?

And we all know what happened vs the Cavs

Small sample but nervous two game 7s in a row?

Tatum on the other hand doesnt seem to bow down to this kind pressure (for the most part). I mean two solid game 7 performances

Both are nice young talents. Matter of fact seems like Tatum is a cold starter and Brown usually starts strong. And it seems like it becomes the opposite as the game goes on.  There is a higher value placed on closers/come through in clutch talents

So this is why Tatum is considered(fans, media) pretty much untouchable and Brown has been involved in recent trade talks (rumor, media etc)

Yep, you CLEARLY DID NOT watch Game 7 vs Bucks.

If you did, you'd know Jaylen left in the 2nd quarter to injury (hamstring) and never returned...  ::)
TP. About to post the same thing until I saw this post.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: Tr1boy on June 20, 2018, 11:15:46 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

So how come Brown went 1-5 and scored 2 pts in game 7 vs Bucks?

And we all know what happened vs the Cavs

Small sample but nervous two game 7s in a row?

Tatum on the other hand doesnt seem to bow down to this kind pressure (for the most part). I mean two solid game 7 performances

Both are nice young talents. Matter of fact seems like Tatum is a cold starter and Brown usually starts strong. And it seems like it becomes the opposite as the game goes on.  There is a higher value placed on closers/come through in clutch talents

So this is why Tatum is considered(fans, media) pretty much untouchable and Brown has been involved in recent trade talks (rumor, media etc)

Yep, you CLEARLY DID NOT watch Game 7 vs Bucks.

If you did, you'd know Jaylen left in the 2nd quarter to injury (hamstring) and never returned...  ::)

Clutch response lol

But what about the rest of my point?

Why is Brown involved in Leonard/Davis trade rumor talks but not Tatum?
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: nickagneta on June 20, 2018, 11:21:08 PM
And this is why I keep bringing up...

Are we sure that Tatum's ceiling is higher than Jaylen's?

"Tatum’s ceiling higher than Brown - not so fast"
http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=94450.0;topicseen

Yes it is

You cant teach what Tatum possesses

At this point, I might be inclined to agree to a point, but on the other hand, what you're saying, here, makes absolutely no sense, imo. Is it not possible to "teach" basketball skills?

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_qb0y9Mjziw/maxresdefault.jpg)

;D

2 min left you need a bucket

Tatum is locked in

Brown looks overwhelmed at times

Tatum finds a way to get a bucket (more often than not)

Brown may run into a crowd. Or try a 3 when he has been ice cold all game.

Tatum has the "it" factor.  Can Brown become like this ? Maybe...hopefully
Chalking up this opinion I cimpletely disagree with to recency bias. Tatum showed up in game 7 and Brown was bad. Forgotten is how amazing Brown was in game 6 and the only other Celtic that tried to end the series in 6 was Rozier. Everyone else, Tatum included, looked.....overwhelmed.

Brown shot 40 % in the regular season and during the playoffs on high volume. You want those guys to continue to shoot 3s. Even if they are cold. You know who shot the three real bad in the playoffs and at times looked overwhelmed shooting from three, for a lot of playoff games...Tatum.

And the whole, Brown loses the ball running into crowds thing is so overblown. His turnover rate and turnovers per game just don't show that, especially in the recent playoffs where he had a 7.4% TO rate for a usage of 24%.

Brown and Tatum both show to me that in different ways, they are going to be major difference makers.

So how come Brown went 1-5 and scored 2 pts in game 7 vs Bucks?

And we all know what happened vs the Cavs

Small sample but nervous two game 7s in a row?

Tatum on the other hand doesnt seem to bow down to this kind pressure (for the most part). I mean two solid game 7 performances

Both are nice young talents. Matter of fact seems like Tatum is a cold starter and Brown usually starts strong. And it seems like it becomes the opposite as the game goes on.  There is a higher value placed on closers/come through in clutch talents

So this is why Tatum is considered(fans, media) pretty much untouchable and Brown has been involved in recent trade talks (rumor, media etc)

Yep, you CLEARLY DID NOT watch Game 7 vs Bucks.

If you did, you'd know Jaylen left in the 2nd quarter to injury (hamstring) and never returned...  ::)

Clutch response lol

But what about the rest of my point?

Why is Brown involved in Leonard/Davis trade rumor talks but not Tatum?
Media speculation....not talks. We have no idea if Brown has been involved in any talks.
Title: Re: Zach Lowe compares Kawhi and Jaylen
Post by: CelticsJG on June 21, 2018, 02:59:09 AM
Brown is listed in trades because he is the lesser of the two prospect. Tatum upside is MVP level candidate while Brown is a top 30ish player upside.