Author Topic: Fun or Relevant?  (Read 2722 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 04:23:28 PM »

Offline Chris22

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5081
  • Tommy Points: 460
Lebron is not the greatest player of all time.

This is absolutely the most important thing to respond to in my post.  Thanks so much for engaging with the topic.

 ;)

You are welcome.

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 04:25:04 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Young fun teams don't stay young and fun forever. They get older and expectations rise. It is fun while they are meeting those expectations but once they stop to -- things go sour. Apathy and disinterest follows. Large section of fans wanting to start over again and rebuild.

Like the Hawks teams built around Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Marvin Williams.


The Al Horford era in Atlanta has to be seen as a wild success, though. 

From 08 to 2016 they were a team that was consistently in the playoff mix, won a bunch of playoff series despite never getting further than the ECF, and were generally well coached and balanced.  They peaked in 2015 with a #1 seed and a team that was a darling of NBA hipsters everywhere.

Sure they never beat LeBron or made the Finals.  But I don't get the sense that Atlanta fans wish it had ended sooner or that the team had blown it up and tanked instead of holding onto Horford as long as they did.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 04:29:08 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
I guess I don't really understand breaking teams into these categories. Would have to see more examples to see if it makes sense.

I think what I'm getting at is less about putting teams into categories and more talking about what our priorities are as fans.

As I said in the OP, I've been thinking a lot about the "What are we really doing here?" aspect of fandom and team building.

What's got my mind on that is the fact that the Celts have been a remarkably unsatisfying team to watch this year, despite being talented and winning a good number of games already, coupled with the possibility of the Celts losing Kyrie this summer and thereby ceasing to be a "relevant" team.

I suppose you could say the undercurrent of my post is -- What if Kyrie leaves and the Celts don't get AD? 

Is that an utter disaster that should shake the franchise to its foundation, or is it maybe not the end of the world and it just means we focus on enjoying a fun young team even if they aren't truly relevant?
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2019, 05:16:12 PM »

Online bdm860

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • Tommy Points: 4586
Young fun teams don't stay young and fun forever. They get older and expectations rise. It is fun while they are meeting those expectations but once they stop to -- things go sour. Apathy and disinterest follows. Large section of fans wanting to start over again and rebuild.

Like the Hawks teams built around Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Marvin Williams.

I think this hits it mostly (though I would change meeting expectations to exceeding expectations).

It's usually always fun when you're continually exceeding expectations.

The Kings are exceeding expectations, that's fun.  The Celtics have so far currently failed to meet expectations, that's not fun (or at least as fun as most thought it would be).  Had everyone expected the C's to only be a 40 win team this year, a lot more people would be having fun with this team.

Like the C's fans, I can see how some Sixers fans aren't having as much fun currently as they were last year.  Last year the Sixers exceeded expectations, this year currently 5th in the East, they're falling below expectations.  Most C's and Sixers fans consider their real season to start in the playoffs though, and are just biding time till then.

The Warriors are no longer continually exceeding expectations, that's when it can get boring.  It's a rare occurrence to be that dominant though.  Usually the problem is you can't get past the 1st/2nd/conference finals round.  So when that happens, many fans want to blow it up, start over.

Bucks fans are probably having a blast as they're exceeding expectations.  I'm sure they thought they'd be good, but not best record in the NBA good.  If they get bounced in the 2nd round though, next year probably won't be as fun unless they exceed expectations again (70+ win pace) or make it past the 2nd round.  60 wins won't be as exciting for the Bucks next year though when they're just meeting expectations.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 05:26:35 PM by bdm860 »

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2019, 05:26:07 PM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15965
  • Tommy Points: 1833
I agree with Roy. I like to have fun during regular season with an overachieving team, but want to be relevant in playoffs. I could care less what national media thinks of my team.

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2019, 05:27:39 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Okay I will respond to the entire original post in a second but "GOAT"? Really, Pho? LeBron is the GOAT? I got Jordan, Russell, Bird, Magic and Kareem in front of LeBron as greatest NBA player ever.

Now on to the original post.

I think fun is very subjective and extremely dependent on point of view. Is playing .500 basketball fun? It is if you have expectations of being a bad team but it's not so fun if your expectations were a 60 win team.

Also is high flying dunks and behind the back passes and lots of 30 foot threes fun basketball if you can't play or won't play defense and so are not a winning team?

I like winning Celtic basketball. The better the players, usually the better the team, the better the team the more wins and the more wins the more fun I am having. So make those trades that make us win more. I could care less if Davis and Kyrie have crap personalities, if they win titles, I am all for that. I don't really get tremendously emotionally attached to players where I would get mad if someone is traded. If the trade helps the team, then awesome. More wins. More fun.

I could not care less about relevancy but maybe I just am not understanding relevancy the way Pho is meaning it. I watched that first full IT year here where the Celtics weren't relevant but were extremely fun. Then the next year they were relevant and still great fun. Relevant or irrelevant, it didn't matter. Both teams were fun and I loved both.

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2019, 05:40:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Okay I will respond to the entire original post in a second but "GOAT"? Really, Pho? LeBron is the GOAT? I got Jordan, Russell, Bird, Magic and Kareem in front of LeBron as greatest NBA player ever.



Honestly, I put that in there kinda flippantly -- I don't actually have strong feelings about LeBron vs Jordan.  I suppose I should know better than to think people wouldn't just key in on that instead of considering the wishy washy stuff that made up the main part of my post.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2019, 05:46:41 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182


I could not care less about relevancy but maybe I just am not understanding relevancy the way Pho is meaning it. I watched that first full IT year here where the Celtics weren't relevant but were extremely fun. Then the next year they were relevant and still great fun. Relevant or irrelevant, it didn't matter. Both teams were fun and I loved both.


I don't think most people in the media or outside of Boston felt that the IT teams were ever more than a cool / cute story.  I heard a lot of talk about how they "just try really hard every night" and how they're a "good story."

Actually I think the IT teams are a great example of a team that was a lot of fun and came close to relevance, depending on how good you thought IT really was in his last healthy season.  But I don't think anybody ever took them seriously as a contender -- outside of Boston / New England anyway.


The concept of "relevance" I'm putting forward is a team that matters when you're looking at the NBA power structure.  Given who the sport works, how the league is promoted, and what history tells us about teams that make it all the way, to "matter" you pretty much need to have one of the marquee players in the league.  Without that, your best case scenario is basically becoming the 2015 Hawks. 
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2019, 05:50:28 PM »

Offline nickagneta

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48120
  • Tommy Points: 8794
  • President of Jaylen Brown Fan Club
Okay I will respond to the entire original post in a second but "GOAT"? Really, Pho? LeBron is the GOAT? I got Jordan, Russell, Bird, Magic and Kareem in front of LeBron as greatest NBA player ever.



Honestly, I put that in there kinda flippantly -- I don't actually have strong feelings about LeBron vs Jordan.  I suppose I should know better than to think people wouldn't just key in on that instead of considering the wishy washy stuff that made up the main part of my post.
I actually love the idea behind the original post.

And since it is a good subject, let's stay on that subject and stay off the GOAT discussions. Sorry I didn't mean to bring this off subject

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2019, 06:09:55 PM »

Offline MikeB12

  • Joe Mazzulla
  • Posts: 137
  • Tommy Points: 28
Wow, 17000+ posts and the longest sports post in internet history...

MikeB

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2019, 06:36:25 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Wow, 17000+ posts and the longest sports post in internet history...

MikeB

I've 100% written much longer posts than this.

LarBrd33 probably has the record for longest post on this forum.  I don't know that for sure, just guessing.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2019, 06:38:24 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Young fun teams don't stay young and fun forever. They get older and expectations rise. It is fun while they are meeting those expectations but once they stop to -- things go sour. Apathy and disinterest follows. Large section of fans wanting to start over again and rebuild.

Like the Hawks teams built around Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Marvin Williams.

I think this hits it mostly (though I would change meeting expectations to exceeding expectations).

It's usually always fun when you're continually exceeding expectations.

The Kings are exceeding expectations, that's fun.  The Celtics have so far currently failed to meet expectations, that's not fun (or at least as fun as most thought it would be).  Had everyone expected the C's to only be a 40 win team this year, a lot more people would be having fun with this team.

Like the C's fans, I can see how some Sixers fans aren't having as much fun currently as they were last year.  Last year the Sixers exceeded expectations, this year currently 5th in the East, they're falling below expectations.  Most C's and Sixers fans consider their real season to start in the playoffs though, and are just biding time till then.

The Warriors are no longer continually exceeding expectations, that's when it can get boring.  It's a rare occurrence to be that dominant though.  Usually the problem is you can't get past the 1st/2nd/conference finals round.  So when that happens, many fans want to blow it up, start over.

Bucks fans are probably having a blast as they're exceeding expectations.  I'm sure they thought they'd be good, but not best record in the NBA good.  If they get bounced in the 2nd round though, next year probably won't be as fun unless they exceed expectations again (70+ win pace) or make it past the 2nd round.  60 wins won't be as exciting for the Bucks next year though when they're just meeting expectations.


Do you think Blazers fans are enjoying the Dame Lillard era?
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2019, 06:55:42 PM »

Online bdm860

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • Tommy Points: 4586
Young fun teams don't stay young and fun forever. They get older and expectations rise. It is fun while they are meeting those expectations but once they stop to -- things go sour. Apathy and disinterest follows. Large section of fans wanting to start over again and rebuild.

Like the Hawks teams built around Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Marvin Williams.

I think this hits it mostly (though I would change meeting expectations to exceeding expectations).

It's usually always fun when you're continually exceeding expectations.

The Kings are exceeding expectations, that's fun.  The Celtics have so far currently failed to meet expectations, that's not fun (or at least as fun as most thought it would be).  Had everyone expected the C's to only be a 40 win team this year, a lot more people would be having fun with this team.

Like the C's fans, I can see how some Sixers fans aren't having as much fun currently as they were last year.  Last year the Sixers exceeded expectations, this year currently 5th in the East, they're falling below expectations.  Most C's and Sixers fans consider their real season to start in the playoffs though, and are just biding time till then.

The Warriors are no longer continually exceeding expectations, that's when it can get boring.  It's a rare occurrence to be that dominant though.  Usually the problem is you can't get past the 1st/2nd/conference finals round.  So when that happens, many fans want to blow it up, start over.

Bucks fans are probably having a blast as they're exceeding expectations.  I'm sure they thought they'd be good, but not best record in the NBA good.  If they get bounced in the 2nd round though, next year probably won't be as fun unless they exceed expectations again (70+ win pace) or make it past the 2nd round.  60 wins won't be as exciting for the Bucks next year though when they're just meeting expectations.


Do you think Blazers fans are enjoying the Dame Lillard era?

My guess is a lot of Blazers fans want to at least shake things up (trade CJ), and enough want to blow it up completely (trade Lillard).

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2019, 07:12:53 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Young fun teams don't stay young and fun forever. They get older and expectations rise. It is fun while they are meeting those expectations but once they stop to -- things go sour. Apathy and disinterest follows. Large section of fans wanting to start over again and rebuild.

Like the Hawks teams built around Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Al Horford, Marvin Williams.

I think this hits it mostly (though I would change meeting expectations to exceeding expectations).

It's usually always fun when you're continually exceeding expectations.

The Kings are exceeding expectations, that's fun.  The Celtics have so far currently failed to meet expectations, that's not fun (or at least as fun as most thought it would be).  Had everyone expected the C's to only be a 40 win team this year, a lot more people would be having fun with this team.

Like the C's fans, I can see how some Sixers fans aren't having as much fun currently as they were last year.  Last year the Sixers exceeded expectations, this year currently 5th in the East, they're falling below expectations.  Most C's and Sixers fans consider their real season to start in the playoffs though, and are just biding time till then.

The Warriors are no longer continually exceeding expectations, that's when it can get boring.  It's a rare occurrence to be that dominant though.  Usually the problem is you can't get past the 1st/2nd/conference finals round.  So when that happens, many fans want to blow it up, start over.

Bucks fans are probably having a blast as they're exceeding expectations.  I'm sure they thought they'd be good, but not best record in the NBA good.  If they get bounced in the 2nd round though, next year probably won't be as fun unless they exceed expectations again (70+ win pace) or make it past the 2nd round.  60 wins won't be as exciting for the Bucks next year though when they're just meeting expectations.


Do you think Blazers fans are enjoying the Dame Lillard era?

My guess is a lot of Blazers fans want to at least shake things up (trade CJ), and enough want to blow it up completely (trade Lillard).


I can't say that I've seen that sentiment anywhere, though admittedly I don't hang out in the comments section of Rip City or anything.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Fun or Relevant?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2019, 08:26:43 PM »

Offline Chris22

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5081
  • Tommy Points: 460
I will take Wilt. Nobody has ever done what Wilt did.