Who are the best QBs in the league?

[nickagneta]

No Jay Cutler on anyone's list?

Three and a half months ago, he was supposed to be the savior. 

I see someone's trying to get under Roy's skin, huh?   

[Donoghus]

No Jay Cutler on anyone's list?

Three and a half months ago, he was supposed to be the savior. 

I see someone's trying to get under Roy's skin, huh?   

Ha...sorry, just had to take a shot at ol' Cuts. Actually when I moved out here three and half months ago, all I heard was how Cutler was gonna put the Bears over the top and the such.  As an outsider, it got pretty annoying to hear over & over. 

[RebusRankin]

No Schaub? Got to put him at 6 or 7.

[PosImpos]

This season:

1. Peyton Manning (as much as I hate to admit it)
2. Drew Brees
3. Brett Favre
4. Kurt Warner
5. Philip Rivers
6. Tom Brady
7. Aaron Rodgers
8. Donovan McNabb
9. Matt Schaub
10. Joe Flacco

Besides Schaub, I didn't really consider guys whose teams aren't playoff bound.  His team's win total also put him a lot lower for me than he might be on some lists.  In my opinion the quarterback is the leader of a team's offense and the record is a big reflection on how good he really is. 

Great quarterbacks win even without much to work with around them - Peyton Manning, for example, has put together a 14-0 season so far while having mostly previously unknown receivers.  Drew Brees doesn't have any really big-name targets, either - he just spreads the passing love around to everybody on his team.  Neither the Saints nor the Colts have many big name offensive weapons besides their QBs, but they are the best teams in the league.  Favre, I think, is a little bit overrated because of the weapons he has around him, but he's still having a great season.

It was tough determining the later spots, as it gets fairly even down there amongst a bunch of different guys.  I would've had Matt Ryan on the list instead of Flacco but he's had a pretty disappointing season.  I considered Palmer but he hasn't been that consistent, I don't think.

Tom Brady is at #6 because the last month and a half or so he's been pretty underwhelming.  Most of his best performances this year have been against really bad teams (and some of his bad ones have been, too).  I don't really trust Tom Brady in an end-game situation anymore, at least for this season, and that puts him a lot lower.

Also I think people have underrated Kurt Warner.  He almost tied the record for consecutive games with 100+ passer rating (or something like that).  He's been very good this season.  If he were on a better team, he might be near the top of the list. 

[Bahku]

Many people assessing on win records here, and winning records are a very incomplete way of assessing a QB's value or skill. In talent, records, skills, historical record, past performance, and overall ability, the only active QB that measures up with Brady is Favre.

So, my question is, is this "Best This Year" or "Best Overall"? BIG difference. Whatever Manning has done, he has not won as many Super Bowls as Brady, nor have any of the others on this list or any currently playing in the NFL ... also, much of Manning's success has come from the quality of his offensive line.

The guy has forever to throw the ball, while Brady, especially this year, is constantly under pressure in the pocket. Of all the QB's playing in the NFL today, Tom Brady is the most successful, the most winning, and the best under pressure.

So again, are you talking about the QB with the best performance this year, or the best active QB period? The answer to the latter is Tom Brady.

[PosImpos]

Many people assessing on win records here, and winning records are a very incomplete way of assessing a QB's value or skill. In talent, records, skills, historical record, past performance, and overall ability, the only active QB that measures up with Brady is Favre.

.....

So again, are you talking about the QB with the best performance this year, or the best active QB period? The answer to the latter is Tom Brady.

I'm aware of that, but (as I stated clearly in my post) I'm talking about this year.  There's no denying that in terms of what they have done, Brady, Manning and Favre are far away at the top of this list, above the rest. 

This year, though, it's a different story.

The guy has forever to throw the ball, while Brady, especially this year, is constantly under pressure in the pocket. Of all the QB's playing in the NFL today, Tom Brady is the most successful, the most winning, and the best under pressure.

I'm aware of your first point, and trust me, it bothers me to no end.  Manning, Favre, and Brees all get tons of time in the pocket. 

Still, if we're talking strictly about today, I'm not so sure your latter point is true.  Tom Brady hasn't been that successful this year, his team doesn't have a great record, and he hasn't been very good under pressure at all, except at the end of the season opener against Buffalo.

[Bahku]

Many people assessing on win records here, and winning records are a very incomplete way of assessing a QB's value or skill. In talent, records, skills, historical record, past performance, and overall ability, the only active QB that measures up with Brady is Favre.

.....

So again, are you talking about the QB with the best performance this year, or the best active QB period? The answer to the latter is Tom Brady.

I'm aware of that, but (as I stated clearly in my post) I'm talking about this year.  There's no denying that in terms of what they have done, Brady, Manning and Favre are far away at the top of this list, above the rest. 

This year, though, it's a different story.

The guy has forever to throw the ball, while Brady, especially this year, is constantly under pressure in the pocket. Of all the QB's playing in the NFL today, Tom Brady is the most successful, the most winning, and the best under pressure.

I'm aware of your first point, and trust me, it bothers me to no end.  Manning, Favre, and Brees all get tons of time in the pocket. 

Still, if we're talking strictly about today, I'm not so sure your latter point is true.  Tom Brady hasn't been that successful this year, his team doesn't have a great record, and he hasn't been very good under pressure at all, except at the end of the season opener against Buffalo.

Oh, I absolutely agree that this year is a different story ... again, that's why my question was, best for this year, or best overall? Big difference, as there's no doubting this has not been Tom's year at all ... one thing people don't realize, though, is that he has also been injured this year many times, though the press didn't make a lot of it. The only reason he came back into the game last week was because he demanded to, as the coach and trainer did not want him to play. He's also yet to be 100% recouped from his injury/surgery, and I can tell you it's something that takes a great deal of time to recover from, and many people are NEVER 100% again. I know I'm making excuses, but these are things that Manning has not had to deal with this year ... or many other QB's, and they are very real concerns/issues. I pretty much agree with your list if assessing for this year only, although I would put Brees/Favre/Manning about even, as again, when you've got an OL like Manning's, your job is much easier.

[PosImpos]

Many people assessing on win records here, and winning records are a very incomplete way of assessing a QB's value or skill. In talent, records, skills, historical record, past performance, and overall ability, the only active QB that measures up with Brady is Favre.

.....

So again, are you talking about the QB with the best performance this year, or the best active QB period? The answer to the latter is Tom Brady.

I'm aware of that, but (as I stated clearly in my post) I'm talking about this year.  There's no denying that in terms of what they have done, Brady, Manning and Favre are far away at the top of this list, above the rest. 

This year, though, it's a different story.

The guy has forever to throw the ball, while Brady, especially this year, is constantly under pressure in the pocket. Of all the QB's playing in the NFL today, Tom Brady is the most successful, the most winning, and the best under pressure.

I'm aware of your first point, and trust me, it bothers me to no end.  Manning, Favre, and Brees all get tons of time in the pocket. 

Still, if we're talking strictly about today, I'm not so sure your latter point is true.  Tom Brady hasn't been that successful this year, his team doesn't have a great record, and he hasn't been very good under pressure at all, except at the end of the season opener against Buffalo.

Oh, I absolutely agree that this year is a different story ... again, that's why my question was, best for this year, or best overall? Big difference, as there's no doubting this has not been Tom's year at all ... one thing people don't realize, though, is that he has also been injured this year many times, though the press didn't make a lot of it. The only reason he came back into the game last week was because he demanded to, as the coach and trainer did not want him to play. He's also yet to be 100% recouped from his injury/surgery, and I can tell you it's something that takes a great deal of time to recover from, and many people are NEVER 100% again. I know I'm making excuses, but these are things that Manning has not had to deal with this year ... or many other QB's, and they are very real concerns/issues. I pretty much agree with your list if assessing for this year only, although I would put Brees/Favre/Manning about even, as again, when you've got an OL like Manning's, your job is much easier.

The injuries are a good point; hopefully we will see a much better Tom Brady next season.  I also hope the Patriots will do something to shore up their secondary and offensive line next year, so we can be a real contending team again.  If we could find a running back we could actually rely on every game, too, that would be amazing.

[Roy Hobbs]

Historically, if you put Manning on the Pats with Belichick and the Pats defense, and but Brady on the Colts with Dungy and the Colts defense, I think Manning wins at least as many Super Bowls as Brady does. 

[Bahku]

Historically, if you put Manning on the Pats with Belichick and the Pats defense, and but Brady on the Colts with Dungy and the Colts defense, I think Manning wins at least as many Super Bowls as Brady does. 

You could make the same case for Brees, Favre and a number of others, but as with Manning, it's just conjecture, and until he wins three Super Bowls, it will remain conjecture. Brady was a thrid-string QB, with absolutely no expectation to even PLAY, and yet he came in, a complete unknown in the NFL, under duress for injured 1st & 2nd string QB's, with NO experience on the professional level, and in the same season led his team to a Super Bowl victory.

That kind of feat has been done by very few players in history, and it's something Manning will, unfortunately, never get the chance to prove or duplicate. For that alone, Brady will always have exceeded what Manning has done or can do, and will always, in my very humble opinion, have accomplished more than Manning. Manning is a great QB, without doubt, but it can hardly be said that he came into the league with the same weight on his shoulders as Tom, or have exceeded expectations on anywhere near the same level.

[angryguy77]

Historically, if you put Manning on the Pats with Belichick and the Pats defense, and but Brady on the Colts with Dungy and the Colts defense, I think Manning wins at least as many Super Bowls as Brady does. 

I agree. Matt Cassel had 11 wins last year when Brady went down. Dare I say Brady might benefit from the system more than people think? I dont know but it's odd....

[Bahku]

Historically, if you put Manning on the Pats with Belichick and the Pats defense, and but Brady on the Colts with Dungy and the Colts defense, I think Manning wins at least as many Super Bowls as Brady does. Let's have this discussion after Manning gets his third ring.

I agree. Matt Cassel had 11 wins last year when Brady went down. Dare I say Brady might benefit from the system more than people think? I dont know but it's odd....

Conjecture ... he hasn't done it, Brady has ... and under more stressful situations than Manning can duplicate, as he was not even expected to play and a third-stringer when he led the team to his first Super Bowl win, (The "system"? I don't think so). People can hypothesize all they want, but until Manning proves himself equal, it's all just opinion ... and opinion I strongly disagree with.

[Bahku]

Historically, if you put Manning on the Pats with Belichick and the Pats defense, and but Brady on the Colts with Dungy and the Colts defense, I think Manning wins at least as many Super Bowls as Brady does. 

I agree. Matt Cassel had 11 wins last year when Brady went down. Dare I say Brady might benefit from the system more than people think? I dont know but it's odd....

Here's a few things I dug up to go along with the discussion:

Manning chokes in the playoffs
Manning has made five playoff appearances in his career. Four times in those five years, he has played his very worst game of the season in the playoffs.
 
If it happened once, it’s a bad game. When it happens twice, it’s a coincidence. When it happens three times, it’s a trend. When it happens four times, it’s simply who you are.
 
And this is who Manning is: a guy who plays his worst games in the playoffs. Put most simply, it’s unreasonable to call a player the best quarterback in football when he reserves his worst games for the biggest moments. The single-worst statistical game of Manning’s career (a 31.2 passer rating) came in a 41-0 loss to a 9-7 Jets team in the 2002 postseason. The third-worst game of his career (35.5 rating) came in a 24-14 loss to 14-2 New England in the 2003 postseason.
 
Brady, meanwhile, elevates his game when it matters most. One year after another, he’s turned in his most impressive performances against the toughest teams when the stakes are highest. These performances include a 312-yard passing game in a blizzard in his playoff debut, two last-second Super Bowl-winning scoring drives, two Super Bowl MVP awards, several Super Bowl passing records and a 2004 AFC championship game in which he shredded the league’s top defense on the road, posting a season-high 130.5 passer rating in the process.
 
Brady has done more for New England than Manning has for Indy
Sure, the Colts were a second-rate organization before the arrival of Manning. He’s a great quarterback who has certainly done a lot to improve his franchise’s fortunes. He just hasn’t done as much as Brady.
 
The Colts had their best record, 13-3, in 1999, Manning’s second year in the league. They’ve plateaued since, failing to win more than 12 games in a season while appearing in just one AFC title game.
 
The Patriots were also a second-rate organization, one that had never won an NFL championship and boasted just eight playoff victories in its first 41 years of existence. Since Brady took the helm, New England has posted back-to-back 14-win seasons, added nine playoff victories and won three NFL titles.
 
Bill Belichick, meanwhile, had a career record of 42-58 before handing the reins to Brady. His record since is 61-17.
 
Brady always outplays Manning
When their two teams square off, Brady is 6-0 and he routinely outplays his fantasy football prodigy of a counterpart. Here are their respective stats in their six meetings:
 
* Brady: 121 for 180 (67.2%), 1,322 yards, 10 TDs, 4 INTs, 98.0 passer rating
 * Manning: 137 for 234 (58.5%), 1,542 yards, 9 TDs, 10 INTs, 73.3 passer rating
 
Sure, New England has had a better defense. But if you're argument is that Manning is the best quarterback in football, doesn't it stand to reason that he should be capable of lighting up a good defense?
 
Manning should have great numbers
The Colts have given Manning every imaginable resource needed to post eye-popping numbers. He’s handed the ball off to two Hall of Fame running backs, Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James, and throws the ball to a collection of fleet-footed No. 1 draft pick receivers. Until this year, Indy management has routinely spurned its defense to spend money on offensive talent. Manning is supposed to have great numbers.
 
Brady has posted remarkably similar numbers throwing to a collection of low-round draft picks and NFL journeymen, on a team that has devoted much fewer resources to stacking its team with offensive talent.
 
The numbers are not that different
Most fans believe Manning posts spectacular numbers year after year while Brady merely muddles along with pedestrian statistics.
 
The truth is that Brady actually has better numbers at this point in his career (five-plus years in the league) than Manning had at the same point in his career. And even when we take into consideration Manning’s record-setting 2004 campaign, the two are very close on the all-time passer rating list. Manning is No. 4 (92.3 on the list. Brady is No. 7 (87.5).
 
The bottom line
No quarterback in football today – and arguably no quarterback in history – has pieced together a better combination of historically strong passing statistics and team success than Brady.

Manning puts up great numbers in the regular season. Brady puts up great numbers all the time, especially when the games count most, and has done it with less talent around him. He's also done more to alter his team’s fortunes and has been the undisputed leader on one of just three teams in NFL history to win three championships in a four-year span.
 
Brady, then, is the better quarterback.


Some more updated stuff, which shows that Manning more recently dominates the regular season, while the playoffs still belong to Tom ... in other words, Peyton chokes in the most important games.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/11/10/manning-vs-brady-part-11/

[Roy Hobbs]

Historically, if you put Manning on the Pats with Belichick and the Pats defense, and but Brady on the Colts with Dungy and the Colts defense, I think Manning wins at least as many Super Bowls as Brady does. Let's have this discussion after Manning gets his third ring.

I agree. Matt Cassel had 11 wins last year when Brady went down. Dare I say Brady might benefit from the system more than people think? I dont know but it's odd....

Conjecture ... he hasn't done it, Brady has ... and under more stressful situations than Manning can duplicate, as he was not even expected to play and a third-stringer when he led the team to his first Super Bowl win, (The "system"? I don't think so). People can hypothesize all they want, but until Manning proves himself equal, it's all just opinion ... and opinion I strongly disagree with.

I don't understand this argument.  Why is there more pressure on a backup QB than there is on the #1 pick in the draft?  Wouldn't the #1 pick be the guy with all of the expectations and pressure?  If anything, Brady came into the perfect situation.  When he took over for an injured Bledsoe, there were absolutely no expectations.  He then went out and blew everyone away.  As for Manning, despite putting up probably the best numbers in NFL history through this stage of his career, he's seen by some as a disappointment, because they have some twisted understanding of what a #1 pick should accomplish.

There's no doubt that Manning has had greater statistical success, but less success at winning playoff games, than Brady.  I think, though, that if their roles were reversed, Brady wouldn't be seen as the ultimate winner, as his defense and coaching staff would have been outplayed.

[Roy Hobbs]

Historically, if you put Manning on the Pats with Belichick and the Pats defense, and but Brady on the Colts with Dungy and the Colts defense, I think Manning wins at least as many Super Bowls as Brady does. 

I agree. Matt Cassel had 11 wins last year when Brady went down. Dare I say Brady might benefit from the system more than people think? I dont know but it's odd....

Here's a few things I dug up to go along with the discussion:

Manning chokes in the playoffs
Manning has made five playoff appearances in his career. Four times in those five years, he has played his very worst game of the season in the playoffs.
 
If it happened once, it’s a bad game. When it happens twice, it’s a coincidence. When it happens three times, it’s a trend. When it happens four times, it’s simply who you are.
 
And this is who Manning is: a guy who plays his worst games in the playoffs. Put most simply, it’s unreasonable to call a player the best quarterback in football when he reserves his worst games for the biggest moments. The single-worst statistical game of Manning’s career (a 31.2 passer rating) came in a 41-0 loss to a 9-7 Jets team in the 2002 postseason. The third-worst game of his career (35.5 rating) came in a 24-14 loss to 14-2 New England in the 2003 postseason.
 
Brady, meanwhile, elevates his game when it matters most. One year after another, he’s turned in his most impressive performances against the toughest teams when the stakes are highest. These performances include a 312-yard passing game in a blizzard in his playoff debut, two last-second Super Bowl-winning scoring drives, two Super Bowl MVP awards, several Super Bowl passing records and a 2004 AFC championship game in which he shredded the league’s top defense on the road, posting a season-high 130.5 passer rating in the process.
 
Brady has done more for New England than Manning has for Indy
Sure, the Colts were a second-rate organization before the arrival of Manning. He’s a great quarterback who has certainly done a lot to improve his franchise’s fortunes. He just hasn’t done as much as Brady.
 
The Colts had their best record, 13-3, in 1999, Manning’s second year in the league. They’ve plateaued since, failing to win more than 12 games in a season while appearing in just one AFC title game.
 
The Patriots were also a second-rate organization, one that had never won an NFL championship and boasted just eight playoff victories in its first 41 years of existence. Since Brady took the helm, New England has posted back-to-back 14-win seasons, added nine playoff victories and won three NFL titles.
 
Bill Belichick, meanwhile, had a career record of 42-58 before handing the reins to Brady. His record since is 61-17.
 
Brady always outplays Manning
When their two teams square off, Brady is 6-0 and he routinely outplays his fantasy football prodigy of a counterpart. Here are their respective stats in their six meetings:
 
* Brady: 121 for 180 (67.2%), 1,322 yards, 10 TDs, 4 INTs, 98.0 passer rating
 * Manning: 137 for 234 (58.5%), 1,542 yards, 9 TDs, 10 INTs, 73.3 passer rating
 
Sure, New England has had a better defense. But if you're argument is that Manning is the best quarterback in football, doesn't it stand to reason that he should be capable of lighting up a good defense?
 
Manning should have great numbers
The Colts have given Manning every imaginable resource needed to post eye-popping numbers. He’s handed the ball off to two Hall of Fame running backs, Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James, and throws the ball to a collection of fleet-footed No. 1 draft pick receivers. Until this year, Indy management has routinely spurned its defense to spend money on offensive talent. Manning is supposed to have great numbers.
 
Brady has posted remarkably similar numbers throwing to a collection of low-round draft picks and NFL journeymen, on a team that has devoted much fewer resources to stacking its team with offensive talent.
 
The numbers are not that different
Most fans believe Manning posts spectacular numbers year after year while Brady merely muddles along with pedestrian statistics.
 
The truth is that Brady actually has better numbers at this point in his career (five-plus years in the league) than Manning had at the same point in his career. And even when we take into consideration Manning’s record-setting 2004 campaign, the two are very close on the all-time passer rating list. Manning is No. 4 (92.3 on the list. Brady is No. 7 (87.5).
 
The bottom line
No quarterback in football today – and arguably no quarterback in history – has pieced together a better combination of historically strong passing statistics and team success than Brady.

Manning puts up great numbers in the regular season. Brady puts up great numbers all the time, especially when the games count most, and has done it with less talent around him. He's also done more to alter his team’s fortunes and has been the undisputed leader on one of just three teams in NFL history to win three championships in a four-year span.
 
Brady, then, is the better quarterback.


Some more updated stuff, which shows that Manning more recently dominates the regular season, while the playoffs still belong to Tom ... in other words, Peyton chokes in the most important games.

Since the time that article was written (in 2005), Manning has won more Super Bowls than Brady, and he could very well add to that total this season.  In other words, it's a little outdated.

Also, I'm not sure how any QB who has won a Super Bowl can be said to "choke in important games".  Manning didn't seem to choke the last two times he's led huge comebacks over the Patriots, did he?