CB Random Conversations. Stretch Four or Three and D Wing?

[Celtics18]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.   

[pearljammer10]

Depends on who the PF is.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.

Oh sure, teams can definitely succeed with a stretch four, and those guys you listed are excellent players. I have high hopes for Olynyk, and if he ends being an effective stretch 4, I'm not gonna complain, I just don't see why bigs don't want to play big, you know what I mean? Somebody has to be in the paint on offense, and I think 7-footers are better equipped to handle the physicality than slight point guards. I'm fine with bigs being able to step out and shoot, and guards being able to get in the paint, but for traditional roles to have switched to such a high degree seems unnatural to me.

[Celtics18]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.

Oh sure, teams can definitely succeed with a stretch four, and those guys you listed are excellent players. I have high hopes for Olynyk, and if he ends being an effective stretch 4, I'm not gonna complain, I just don't see why bigs don't want to play big, you know what I mean? Somebody has to be in the paint on offense, and I think 7-footers are better equipped to handle the physicality than slight point guards. I'm fine with bigs being able to step out and shoot, and guards being able to get in the paint, but for traditional roles to have switched to such a high degree seems unnatural to me.

Check out some Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit highlights.  Bigs who can shoot aren't all that unnatural (or new).

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.

Oh sure, teams can definitely succeed with a stretch four, and those guys you listed are excellent players. I have high hopes for Olynyk, and if he ends being an effective stretch 4, I'm not gonna complain, I just don't see why bigs don't want to play big, you know what I mean? Somebody has to be in the paint on offense, and I think 7-footers are better equipped to handle the physicality than slight point guards. I'm fine with bigs being able to step out and shoot, and guards being able to get in the paint, but for traditional roles to have switched to such a high degree seems unnatural to me.

Check out some Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit highlights. Bigs who can shoot aren't all that unnatural (or new).

Yes, there were some shooting bigs before the present crop of KG, Dirk, etc., but NBA history, by and large, is littered with 4s whose bread and butter was in the post.

All that talk of NBA big-man history, however, is missing my point, which was simply to say that it would be nice, in my view, to see bigs putting their size to good use in the paint. Seems like a bit of a waste of resources to be 7 feet tall, in a game that often favors height, but never go near the hoop, the place it would be easiest to take advantage of said height.

[D.o.s.]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.

Oh sure, teams can definitely succeed with a stretch four, and those guys you listed are excellent players. I have high hopes for Olynyk, and if he ends being an effective stretch 4, I'm not gonna complain, I just don't see why bigs don't want to play big, you know what I mean? Somebody has to be in the paint on offense, and I think 7-footers are better equipped to handle the physicality than slight point guards. I'm fine with bigs being able to step out and shoot, and guards being able to get in the paint, but for traditional roles to have switched to such a high degree seems unnatural to me.

Check out some Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit highlights. Bigs who can shoot aren't all that unnatural (or new).

Yes, there were some shooting bigs before the present crop of KG, Dirk, etc., but NBA history, by and large, is littered with 4s whose bread and butter was in the post.

All that talk of NBA big-man history, however, is missing my point, which was simply to say that it would be nice, in my view, to see bigs putting their size to good use in the paint. Seems like a bit of a waste of resources to be 7 feet tall, in a game that often favors height, but never go near the hoop, the place it would be easiest to take advantage of said height.

So ideally you'd want your 7 footers to be similar to a prime Rasheed Wallace.

I agree with that.

[Celtics18]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.

Oh sure, teams can definitely succeed with a stretch four, and those guys you listed are excellent players. I have high hopes for Olynyk, and if he ends being an effective stretch 4, I'm not gonna complain, I just don't see why bigs don't want to play big, you know what I mean? Somebody has to be in the paint on offense, and I think 7-footers are better equipped to handle the physicality than slight point guards. I'm fine with bigs being able to step out and shoot, and guards being able to get in the paint, but for traditional roles to have switched to such a high degree seems unnatural to me.

Check out some Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit highlights. Bigs who can shoot aren't all that unnatural (or new).

Yes, there were some shooting bigs before the present crop of KG, Dirk, etc., but NBA history, by and large, is littered with 4s whose bread and butter was in the post.

All that talk of NBA big-man history, however, is missing my point, which was simply to say that it would be nice, in my view, to see bigs putting their size to good use in the paint. Seems like a bit of a waste of resources to be 7 feet tall, in a game that often favors height, but never go near the hoop, the place it would be easiest to take advantage of said height.

I guess that's a personal preference thing.  I like bigs who are versatile and can play some with their back to the basket, finish on drive and dishes, step out and hit jumpers, put the ball on the floor some.  When you get a seven footer who can do all those things, that's very, very rare indeed.  I believe that those kinds of skills should be utilized. 

I'd hate to have seen a Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Elvin Hayes or Bob Pettit (a few of the all time greats) be told, "don't shoot jumpers, don't try to show your ball skills, just go inside and camp out in the paint, and be a big, dang it!!!"

What wastes of talent that would have been.  And, those players respective teams probably wouldn't have been as successful as they were if they didn't take advantage of all the skills that their legendary power forwards brought to the table. 

By the way, I didn't pick Pettit and Hayes because they were just random examples of power forwards in previous eras who could shoot from the perimeter and make plays like guards, but because they are widely considered among the top ten or twenty players to ever play the game.  Of course, their versatility is the main reason for that. 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.

Oh sure, teams can definitely succeed with a stretch four, and those guys you listed are excellent players. I have high hopes for Olynyk, and if he ends being an effective stretch 4, I'm not gonna complain, I just don't see why bigs don't want to play big, you know what I mean? Somebody has to be in the paint on offense, and I think 7-footers are better equipped to handle the physicality than slight point guards. I'm fine with bigs being able to step out and shoot, and guards being able to get in the paint, but for traditional roles to have switched to such a high degree seems unnatural to me.

Check out some Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit highlights. Bigs who can shoot aren't all that unnatural (or new).

Yes, there were some shooting bigs before the present crop of KG, Dirk, etc., but NBA history, by and large, is littered with 4s whose bread and butter was in the post.

All that talk of NBA big-man history, however, is missing my point, which was simply to say that it would be nice, in my view, to see bigs putting their size to good use in the paint. Seems like a bit of a waste of resources to be 7 feet tall, in a game that often favors height, but never go near the hoop, the place it would be easiest to take advantage of said height.

I guess that's a personal preference thing.  I like bigs who are versatile and can play some with their back to the basket, finish on drive and dishes, step out and hit jumpers, put the ball on the floor some.  When you get a seven footer who can do all those things, that's very, very rare indeed.  I believe that those kinds of skills should be utilized. 

I'd hate to have seen a Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Elvin Hayes or Bob Pettit (a few of the all time greats) be told, "don't shoot jumpers, don't try to show your ball skills, just go inside and camp out in the paint, and be a big, dang it!!!"

What wastes of talent that would have been.  And, those players respective teams probably wouldn't have been as successful as they were if they didn't take advantage of all the skills that their legendary power forwards brought to the table. 

By the way, I didn't pick Pettit and Hayes because they were just random examples of power forwards in previous eras who could shoot from the perimeter and make plays like guards, but because they are widely considered among the top ten or twenty players to ever play the game.  Of course, their versatility is the main reason for that.

I'm not meaning to knock versatility, and any talent a player has should be put to use. It just seems to me that the vast majority of bigs these days want to be able to hit from range but can't develop a reliable post move to save their lives.

[Celtics18]

I'm so tired of stretch bigs. If I were 7 feet tall and weighed 250 pounds, I'd be pounding the ball inside and making the paint my domain.

Sure, it's great when bigs can shoot outside, but the advent of stretch bigs has opened the paint for guards—and why would I want my team's 6-foot, 180-pound lightweights getting hammered instead of my team's 7-foot guys who are built for contact?

Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol. 

You may be tired of the stretch four, but the reality is that all the most recent NBA champions have had a big man who could step outside and hit jump shots.  It does help to open up the paint for drivers, and it works.

Personally, I'm hoping that Kelly Olynyk can turn into an effective "stretch four" and pick and pop player.  As has already been pointed out, it looks like he can also put the ball on the floor a little bit, and do some other things.  Hopefully, he can improve his defense enough to be able to get on the floor for significant minutes.

Oh sure, teams can definitely succeed with a stretch four, and those guys you listed are excellent players. I have high hopes for Olynyk, and if he ends being an effective stretch 4, I'm not gonna complain, I just don't see why bigs don't want to play big, you know what I mean? Somebody has to be in the paint on offense, and I think 7-footers are better equipped to handle the physicality than slight point guards. I'm fine with bigs being able to step out and shoot, and guards being able to get in the paint, but for traditional roles to have switched to such a high degree seems unnatural to me.

Check out some Elvin Hayes and Bob Pettit highlights. Bigs who can shoot aren't all that unnatural (or new).

Yes, there were some shooting bigs before the present crop of KG, Dirk, etc., but NBA history, by and large, is littered with 4s whose bread and butter was in the post.

All that talk of NBA big-man history, however, is missing my point, which was simply to say that it would be nice, in my view, to see bigs putting their size to good use in the paint. Seems like a bit of a waste of resources to be 7 feet tall, in a game that often favors height, but never go near the hoop, the place it would be easiest to take advantage of said height.

I guess that's a personal preference thing.  I like bigs who are versatile and can play some with their back to the basket, finish on drive and dishes, step out and hit jumpers, put the ball on the floor some.  When you get a seven footer who can do all those things, that's very, very rare indeed.  I believe that those kinds of skills should be utilized. 

I'd hate to have seen a Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Elvin Hayes or Bob Pettit (a few of the all time greats) be told, "don't shoot jumpers, don't try to show your ball skills, just go inside and camp out in the paint, and be a big, dang it!!!"

What wastes of talent that would have been.  And, those players respective teams probably wouldn't have been as successful as they were if they didn't take advantage of all the skills that their legendary power forwards brought to the table. 

By the way, I didn't pick Pettit and Hayes because they were just random examples of power forwards in previous eras who could shoot from the perimeter and make plays like guards, but because they are widely considered among the top ten or twenty players to ever play the game.  Of course, their versatility is the main reason for that.

I'm not meaning to knock versatility, and any talent a player has should be put to use. It just seems to me that the vast majority of bigs these days want to be able to hit from range but can't develop a reliable post move to save their lives.

That doesn't seem true to me.