Mark Bartelstein : "Walker is a heck of a player"

[FallGuy]

The saga of toine will never end so it seems. I can handle it in here. What I would really find unbearable would be if Toine should show up in my dreams. Then, suicide would be an option. I hope it doesnt end in that.

*laughs*

There are some C's fans who just can't dealt with the idea that Antoine is a has-been and Gerald Green is a never-will-be.

[bbc3341]

My mom says I'm a heck of a singer...

[Donoghus]

I'm pretty sure that most of the snide comments are not directed at Antoine Walker, the player that was here for so many years giving his heart and soul to this team.

I think the snide remarks might be a passive aggressive jab at all those posters who keep reintroducing these "Bring back Toine" threads. We all loved the Antoine that was here between 1996-2002. He may not have been the best player around and god knows with better coaching and a stronger front office, Walker could have been a lot, lot better than he was. He had that much potential.

But people, myself included, poke fun at Antoine because we see that he is but a very large shadow of his former self. The same way Sam Cassell is. They are not all that different Sam and Toine. Both have that me shoot first mentality. Both take lots of shots and lots of bad shots. Both are not good defensively. Both are now slow and have very little vertical left in them. Both if they decided to completely sacrifice who they are as players and devoted themselves to team, could, and that is a huge could, help a team off the bench.

But it isn't going to happen. They are creatures so set in their ways that change on the level needed to have them fit in well here is nearly impossible.

Think of all the ifs:

- if Walker can lose weight.
- if Walker can get himself back in the shape coaches want.
- if Walker is willing to come off the bench.
- if Walker is willing to put his ego in check.
- if Walker is willing to listen to a coach.
- if Walker will not pout every time the coach doesn't put him out there.
- if Walker is willing to play the 4.
- if Walker plays within the framework of the offense and doesn't hoist up tons of bad shots.
- if Walker still has a shooting touch within him.
- if the game hasn't passed him by.
- if he is willing to realize he is a 10th-12th player on the bench and act accordingly.


Tons of ifs. And there are more, I am sure. And there is just too many for an Executive of the Year, who is looking to upgrade at every position beyond his starting 5 to make a run at repeating, can justify.

He's not coming back and that's too bad. Because in many ways it is his own fault. He has a reputation and a lot of what causes that rep is Antoine being Antoine.

Nice post, Nick.

[PSquared]

Antoine is a perfect fit for the Lakers.  He would be their best rebounder.

Antoine to the Lakers?  BLASPHEMY!!!!!   

[PSquared]

The hatred really isn't that funny. Toine was a big part of this franchise and he was well loved. Hes a proven winner yet not many people are interested? I bet he could contribute more than BBD.

He won in Miami because of Wade/Shaq.

And Pierce won in Boston because of Garnett/Allen, right?   right.

So what's your point? 

[PSquared]

I really hope Pierce called Walker and rubbed it in.  If you remember when Walker was in the finals, he offered Pierce playoff tickets and then told him that if he wanted to win he needed to leave Boston.  I heard that Walker was at a couple of the Finals games.  Hopefully Pierce offered him tickets and reminded him of his statements in 2006. 

I'm pretty sure that was the first thing he talked to him about when he finally reached the finals....

By the way, Pierce accepted those playoff tickets and was in fact in the crowd in all of Miami's home games in the Finals just like Toine was in Boston's home games.   

whether you like it or not, Walker and Pierce are and always will be very good friends; they're not Petty like certain *cough* fans here...

[nickagneta]

I really hope Pierce called Walker and rubbed it in.  If you remember when Walker was in the finals, he offered Pierce playoff tickets and then told him that if he wanted to win he needed to leave Boston.  I heard that Walker was at a couple of the Finals games.  Hopefully Pierce offered him tickets and reminded him of his statements in 2006. 

I'm pretty sure that was the first thing he talked to him about when he finally reached the finals....

By the way, Pierce accepted those playoff tickets and was in fact in the crowd in all of Miami's home games in the Finals just like Toine was in Boston's home games.   

whether you like it or not, Walker and Pierce are and always will be very good friends; they're not Petty like certain *cough* fans here...

Agree 100%.

Pierce and Walker are tight and that advice that Walker gave Pierce a couple of years ago was probably good advice. Pierce stayed loyal and something happened that has never happened before in NBA history.

Pierce was there to support Walker in his quest for a ring and Toine was doing the same.

Walker professionally may not be what this team needs but you can't diss the man for being a good, loyal friend. As a man, I've never heard a bad word about Antoine. He's got an ego but show me an NBA player that doesn't.

He's a good guy, let's not smear him simply because he's not what we want here as a player.

[guava_wrench]

The hatred really isn't that funny. Toine was a big part of this franchise and he was well loved. Hes a proven winner yet not many people are interested? I bet he could contribute more than BBD.

He won in Miami because of Wade/Shaq.

And Pierce won in Boston because of Garnett/Allen, right?   right.

So what's your point? 

Before commenting, I would like to say that I like Walker for his history as a Celtic and am not going to tear him apart now that he is washed up.

Still, there is a big difference between PP and AW in the finals. One was the team captain and finals MVP. The other was along for the ride.

[Jon]

I don't know why everyone has to so black and white about Toine.  Did he shoot too many ill-advised threes, miss a ton of bunnies down low, and make some errant passes?  Yes.  Did he also help make some fairly poor Celtics team fairly good?  Yes.  And did he play a big part in Miami's 2004 title?  Yes (he was the second leading scorer to D. Wade). 

Is he washed up now?  Who knows?  I think the bigger question is how he fits in on this team.  And as a guy who bemoaned both times the C's traded away Toine, I'll tell you that I don't think he really fits in on this team now.  Play him at the 4?  Well, what does this accomplish?  We already have two undersized 4s to back up KG, what we really need is someone with some length to replace P.J. if he goes.  Play him at the 3?  Works offensively, but it'd be a nightmare on the defensive end. 

Still, if by some crazy chance he did come here, it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world.  This wouldn't be 2003 when he'd come back thinking this was his team.  Not with K.G., Allen, and Pierce here, and not after winning a title. 

[crownsy]

The hatred really isn't that funny. Toine was a big part of this franchise and he was well loved. Hes a proven winner yet not many people are interested? I bet he could contribute more than BBD.

He won in Miami because of Wade/Shaq.

And Pierce won in Boston because of Garnett/Allen, right?   right.

So what's your point? 

please, pierce carried the team in multiple games, and won finals MVP. walker was on the miami roster and scored a bit.

not comparable.

[PSquared]

I'm pretty sure that most of the snide comments are not directed at Antoine Walker, the player that was here for so many years giving his heart and soul to this team.

Could've fooled me, pal.  

I think the snide remarks might be a passive aggressive jab at all those posters who keep reintroducing these "Bring back Toine" threads. We all loved the Antoine that was here between 1996-2002. He may not have been the best player around and god knows with better coaching and a stronger front office, Walker could have been a lot, lot better than he was. He had that much potential.

Which ticks me off even more when ThanksDad hired Pitino to coach instead of Larry-Legend.   Ya Think Toine would've developed differently under Larry?  I think so.

But people, myself included, poke fun at Antoine because we see that he is but a very large shadow of his former self. The same way Sam Cassell is. They are not all that different Sam and Toine. Both have that me shoot first mentality. Both take lots of shots and lots of bad shots. Both are not good defensively. Both are now slow and have very little vertical left in them. Both if they decided to completely sacrifice who they are as players and devoted themselves to team, could, and that is a huge could, help a team off the bench.

Sam is Nothing like Antoine.  Sam should've retired 5 years ago; Walker will retire in about 5 years from now.  he still has some gas left in that old jalopy of his.  May not be with the C's but he'll be back in the postseason quicker than anyone may realize....

Think of all the ifs:

- if Walker can lose weight.
- if Walker can get himself back in the shape coaches want.

You never heard any complaints about his "weight issues" when he was a Celtic(aside from his final year before getting traded by Danny-boy), Maverick, or Hawk.  Only Riley did and that's 'cause he couldn't do what he really wanted to do and that's crap on Shaq for being an overweight fat-azz so he picks on Toine who never was slim to begin with.

- if Walker is willing to come off the bench.

Been there, done that, read the [dang] freakin' book.  

- if Walker is willing to put his ego in check.

Done that, too.

- if Walker is willing to listen to a coach.

Providing the Coach has an IQ higher than Toine's original jersey #, that is easily done.

- if Walker will not pout every time the coach doesn't put him out there.

Ever wonder why he "pouts"?  'Cause he's something called a COMPETITOR and he wants to play and compete.   There's nothing wrong with that and showing a little passion.  That's how he is and I'm sorry you don't see that.

- if Walker is willing to play the 4.

Huh?  He's been playing the 4 for a while now; sure he's played the 3 a little bit but he's mainly been at the 4.  

- if Walker plays within the framework of the offense and doesn't hoist up tons of bad shots.

'06 Miami Heat : NBA Champions.  'Nuff said.

- if Walker still has a shooting touch within him.

Flip a coin.  

- if the game hasn't passed him by.

He is 31....not 51.

- if he is willing to realize he is a 10th-12th player on the bench and act accordingly.

He was joking around and supporting the young teammates in Minny on the bench when he didn't play at all....so I think he DID act accordingly.

Tons of ifs. And there are more, I am sure. And there is just too many for an Executive of the Year, who is looking to upgrade at every position beyond his starting 5 to make a run at repeating, can justify.

If a Team with Pierce/Garnett/Allen cannot win with a 12th man/player Walker on their team, then it's a freakin' joke.

He's not coming back and that's too bad. Because in many ways it is his own fault. He has a reputation and a lot of what causes that rep is Antoine being Antoine.

Sad but true.  

[PSquared]

The hatred really isn't that funny. Toine was a big part of this franchise and he was well loved. Hes a proven winner yet not many people are interested? I bet he could contribute more than BBD.

He won in Miami because of Wade/Shaq.

And Pierce won in Boston because of Garnett/Allen, right?   right.

So what's your point? 

Before commenting, I would like to say that I like Walker for his history as a Celtic and am not going to tear him apart now that he is washed up.

Still, there is a big difference between PP and AW in the finals. One was the team captain and finals MVP. The other was along for the ride.

Jason Kapono was "along for the ride"...

Dorrell Wright was "Along for the ride"...

Antoine Walker was THE 2ND LEADING SCORER IN THE FINALS!  And he had a pretty solid playoffs overall, too.  He did his part. 

And anyway, I wasn't comparing who got MVP and who didn't....The other person decided to get smarmy about things so I got smarmy right back at him.  Championships are NOT won by one sole individual unless his initials are M and J.

[PSquared]

The hatred really isn't that funny. Toine was a big part of this franchise and he was well loved. Hes a proven winner yet not many people are interested? I bet he could contribute more than BBD.

He won in Miami because of Wade/Shaq.

And Pierce won in Boston because of Garnett/Allen, right?   right.

So what's your point? 

please, pierce carried the team in multiple games, and won finals MVP. walker was on the miami roster and scored a bit.

not comparable.

I wasn't comparing anything!!!!    Both guys did what they needed to do to help their teams win the championship. 

For those who said that Walker needs to accept a lesser role, he did that with Wade and Fat-Shaq(or Snaq) and he still ended up playing a critical role when all was said and done. 

[BrickJames]

What is all this "Sam should have retired 5 years ago" crap?  I keep seeing it from various people in various threads.  Simply incorrect.

Didn't he help KG get to the WCF with the Wolves on a 3-man team in '04?

Didn't he carry the Clippers to 7 games against the Suns in '06?  (A series the clips should have won)

He can still play.  People that get angry that he "forces shots" or "shoots too much" clearly never watched Cassell play.  It's OK - nothing to be ashamed of.  Just don't talk about the man like you know his game or know what you're talking about.

That is all.

[Brickowski]

Look, Walker's not a bad player and he's fun to watch.  But he's basically uncoachable.  He's going to play his way, and that's it.  He's not a good fit in Boston at the moment, particularly since Glenn Davis can do almost everything Walker can do (except shoot ill-advised treys).