Bob Cousy thinks we should go all in on Hassan "Bill Russell" Whiteside

[Roy H.]

Whiteside is down to 95th in Real Plus Minus, which is an absolute free fall.  He's 17th among centers, including 19th defensively and 24th offensively.

Hassan Whiteside:  the king of empty stats.

I will not let this go, not until I have fight left for this kid.

He's got better Defensive +/- than Andre Drummond, Robin Lopez, Omer Asik, Pau Gasol, Al Horford and Jonas Valanciunas.

That Opposing FG% at rim that you've been calling him out, yeah, 48 is a bit high, but not as high as Andre Drummond's (48.3), Anthony Davis' (48.3), Robin Lopez's (48.3), DeAndre Jordan's ( 48.8 ), Marc Gasol's (49.7), Tyson Chandler's (51.2), Joakim Noah ( 51.8 ). And those guys are well known good defenders for the Center spot.

And here's an article that says he leads the league in Possessed Blocks per 100 Chances.
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2015/04/08/hassan-whiteside-is-nbas-king-of-smart-blocks/

He's second in blocks in the league behind Anthony Davis. And that's playing 23 minutes a game (he leads the league per 48).

Again, he's 1st in the league in Rebounding rate too.

And yeah, it's convenient to also leave out the fact that his PER is at a 26.25, which is 6th in the league (that's better than LeBron James, Chris Paul and DeMarcus Cousins BTW).

I get it, the Russell comparison has been far-fetched now that (like the CBS article said) with a huge sample size, some of his production started to decline a bit. But calling him "king of empty stats" because he's got a low plus/minus? C'mon now.

Again, 23 minutes per game and he is in the 2nd in blocks ( and leader in percentage), top 15 in rebounds (and percentage) and top 10 in PER, and he's "empty stats"?

Well, right, that's exactly what I'm saying.  His stats has been good, but empty.  The Heat are getting blown out when he's on the court, and he's more interested in going for blocks and grabbing rebounds than he is in sealing off his man defensively.

The RPM stats measure impact while on the court, and Whiteside's impact has been in absolute free fall.  Lack of impact = empty stats.

Cleveland shot them out of the gym, like jump shotted them out. I don't think you punish him from not being able to protect the rim from a cranky perimeter defense so at some point it shouldnt be just him. Maybe the blame as to why the Heat are getting blown out should also go to the perimeter guys as well? He's doing a decent job trying to protect the rim and not allowing teams to het offensive rebounds. He doesn't get a ton offense outside of occasional drop passes and offensive putbacks. He's doing his job, his teammates isn't. Yet somehow it sounds like he's the biggest reason the Heat are losing.

Speaking of, doesn't DMC produces yet his team can't win. Isn't that the same thing?

No. DMC has a huge impact on the court, as witnessed by his RPM numbers, etc. Despite his terrible teammates, he still has a positive point differential on the court.

[ViolentGhandi]

and again - if you just throw the stat sheet away for a second and just watch him play

for instane the last game against the Celtics - he was just awesome - if his RPM is bad I would strongly doubt the value of that rating

he gave our guys a beating - he was running hard on fast breaks and it all looks like easy for him

and there is just no way that he doesnt have a positive impact to the game with his kinda stats

some ppl just find a worm in every apple - Tolkien has discribed them in his books but he didnt had an idea just how dangerous they really were. Now that they swarm all over the internet we all know

[moiso]

and again - if you just throw the stat sheet away for a second and just watch him play

for instane the last game against the Celtics - he was just awesome - if his RPM is bad I would strongly doubt the value of that rating

he gave our guys a beating - he was running hard on fast breaks and it all looks like easy for him

and there is just no way that he doesnt have a positive impact to the game with his kinda stats

some ppl just find a worm in every apple - Tolkien has discribed them in his books but he didnt had an idea just how dangerous they really were. Now that they swarm all over the internet we all know

You can't always tell by watching.  Last year my eyes told me that Lance Stephenson was a star in the making despite the fact that the advanced stats said that he was average at best.  The stats were right.

[Roy H.]

and again - if you just throw the stat sheet away for a second and just watch him play

for instane the last game against the Celtics - he was just awesome - if his RPM is bad I would strongly doubt the value of that rating

he gave our guys a beating - he was running hard on fast breaks and it all looks like easy for him

and there is just no way that he doesnt have a positive impact to the game with his kinda stats

some ppl just find a worm in every apple - Tolkien has discribed them in his books but he didnt had an idea just how dangerous they really were. Now that they swarm all over the internet we all know

You can't always tell by watching.  Last year my eyes told me that Lance Stephenson was a star in the making despite the fact that the advanced stats said that he was average at best.  The stats were right.

Yeah.  The guy I always use as an example is Sean Williams at BC.  That kid looked amazing on the court.  Blocking shots all over the place, good rebounder.  And then you look at the stats, and see that the defense was worse with Williams on the floor.  You look further, and it's because he's solely interested in blocking shots, rather than sealing his man and maintaining smart defensive position.

I will say that straight +/- can be very misleading, especially when used on a game-by-game basis.  However, when a guy is consistently putting up negative numbers while teammates are positive, that's the type of thing that is a red flag.

I was initially skeptical of RPM, but if you look at it as a list of the most impactful players, rather than the best, it mostly holds up.

[Smartacus]

Welp, I'd still rather have Whiteside for what he would cost then what it would take to move up for Willey Cauley Stein. WCS has seriously questioned whether or not he wants to play basketball for a living. Say what you like about  Hassan Whiteside but he's been to hell and back to chase his dream.

Think there's something to be said for Making your way through the Israeli league at a young age and coming out a better player. Erik Spoelstra talks about how even little things like his eye contact illustrate the kind of growth that is rare in a player.

 Like I said earlier in the thread though biased I always liked him but figured there must be something just broken about him if he's getting drafted so late and not receiving minutes in sac town. Glad he's turned around shame Riley hates Danny and probably would block us out of the negotiating room.