Three Bleacher Report trade proposals

[RodyTur10]

Does it feel like more trade talk than usual for a team with 2nd best record in the League and a roster that is arguably the best in the league (certainly top 3)?  And… playoffs about to start.   So much to learn about this team in the next couple months.  Then trade talk makes more sense, doesn’t it?

A few people having an ax to grind jb is why there is so much of this. Notice there hasn’t been a single proposal for another member of our team in many months (with possible exception of Pritchard who kind of asked for a trade).

To give some balance: I'm ready to ship Smart out. As the current DPOY and on a reasonable contract he should have a lot of trading value. On the other hand he's 29 and not looking like indispensable anymore to the Celtics.

[Who]

It’s interesting to me that people think all these Atlanta players are good.
If trae young, Murray, Collins, Hunter are all good why are the hawks still so mediocre? Aside from Murray they have been mediocre under multiple coaches too.

Well, I'd put a lot of their struggles down to poor roster construction. They have three key problems as I see it:

(1) Dejounte Murray and Trae Young are a terrible fit. They are both out and out PGs. They both the need the ball in their hands to be effective. They do not function well together.

(2) John Collins and Clint Capela are a terrible fit together. Capela is a garbage man big man. John Collins is not a perimeter 4. He is an interior 4. He needs to attack the rim, attack the paint, in PnRs, cuts, post ups and isolations from the mid-post. That is his bread and butter. He can make some perimeter shots but that is not what makes him special. It is his interior scoring that makes him special. Capela in the way clogging up the paint hurts Collins' game. They need to get rid of Capela and replace him with a 3+D center like Myles Turner. That will help get more out of John Collins.

(3) Their wing play is poor. Not enough shooting on the wings to supply open lanes to their ball-dominant PGs (Trae or Dejounte).


You hear about teams being more of the sum of its parts ... this team is the opposite, it is less than the sum of its parts.

I do view their pieces as more valuable individually than they are collectively because of how poor the fit is. In terms of individual talent, you are probably looking at a team, if built properly, that would be a 50-55 win team. And if they fix their wing situation, maybe even an outside shot at contending.

Most of their problems come down to bad management & roster construction.

[Moranis]

I thought Ingram took a step back this year. I have been disappointed with how badly NOP has played without Zion. There is enough talent there around Ingram for NOP to be better than they are without Zion.

Ingram has only played in 42 games.  That is his biggest issue.  He has a lot of trouble staying healthy.

[Moranis]

Those trades are inline with what I think we'd get for Brown.  I proposed something very similar to each of those at various times as well.  Given Ingram's injury history, I'd definitely want something else.  I'd want Murphy or Jones, but might settle for Alvarado and a 1st.

which proves my point about them being underpayments since your track record consistently undervalues anyone on the C's roster while inflating the value of any other player in the league.

Ingram, Murray and Collins are all underwhelming players and not as good as Jaylen.  IF, and only IF, Jaylen states he wants to leave Boston (which I don't see happening) Brad would need to get a lot better deal than any of these proposals.   Close to what Utah got for Mitchell or for Gobert -- especially the picks

One of these guys is Ingram, the other is Brown.

26.7 p, 6.8 r, 3.4 a, 1.1 s, 0.4 b, 2.9 t, 55.2 2P, 33.9 3P, 76.9 FT, 58.5 TS%, 19.3 PER, .104 WS/48, 1.3 BPM, 2.0 VORP
24.5 p, 5.3 r, 5.6 a, 0.6 s, 0.4 b, 3.2 t, 50.5 2P, 40.3 3P, 88.2 FT, 58.3 TS%, 19.1 PER, .105 WS/48, 1.6 BPM, 1.3 VORP

Seems like pretty similar players basically across the board.  Ingram is obviously a much larger injury risk, but actual on court production is very similar.  One guy better from 2, the other better from 3 and the line.  One guy a better rebounder, the other a better passer.

And I don't undervalue our players, I just don't overvalue them like this board does.

Ingram is a good player.  He has NOP in the playoff hunt as their best player.  He is not as good a Brown though even when healthy and has more of a durability concern.  Plus, to me, his game is more SF than SG (which I know is subjective) so he is not as good to pair with Tatum.  I don't think I am undervaluing Ingram, I just don't think a trade would make any sense.

As others have said, if it comes down to Brown demanding a trade, getting Ingram and something would not be horrible but it is not a trade I would look to do.  More like if that was the best trade you had to settle for, it would not be the end of the world.

this is another issue that strikes me as contrary to Moranis' big talking point about Brown --> that Tatum is best at SF and Brown's style impedes Tatum's game.  Ingram isn't a fit at SG or PF so he has to bump Tatum to PF which goes against Mo's philosophy of Tatum at SF AND Ingram's offensive game is less effective than Brown's in terms of being able to score so not seeing how he's more compatible with Tatum.  also, Ingram's ball handling ability is moot since Tatum typically has the ball in his hands in this offense.

bball-ref says he has played 71% of his minutes at SG this year so I'm not really worried about him and Tatum playing the 2 and 3.  He is obviously more of a natural SF, but so is Brown, however unlike Brown, Ingram has much better passing and he is also shooting much better from 3 this year than Brown is.  Those two things, in particular, I think would make him a better fit next to Tatum. 

The injury concern is real though.  I'd need more than just Ingram for Brown for that reason, but NO has enough quality players that a trade could easily be worked out.

[slamtheking]

Those trades are inline with what I think we'd get for Brown.  I proposed something very similar to each of those at various times as well.  Given Ingram's injury history, I'd definitely want something else.  I'd want Murphy or Jones, but might settle for Alvarado and a 1st.

which proves my point about them being underpayments since your track record consistently undervalues anyone on the C's roster while inflating the value of any other player in the league.

Ingram, Murray and Collins are all underwhelming players and not as good as Jaylen.  IF, and only IF, Jaylen states he wants to leave Boston (which I don't see happening) Brad would need to get a lot better deal than any of these proposals.   Close to what Utah got for Mitchell or for Gobert -- especially the picks

One of these guys is Ingram, the other is Brown.

26.7 p, 6.8 r, 3.4 a, 1.1 s, 0.4 b, 2.9 t, 55.2 2P, 33.9 3P, 76.9 FT, 58.5 TS%, 19.3 PER, .104 WS/48, 1.3 BPM, 2.0 VORP
24.5 p, 5.3 r, 5.6 a, 0.6 s, 0.4 b, 3.2 t, 50.5 2P, 40.3 3P, 88.2 FT, 58.3 TS%, 19.1 PER, .105 WS/48, 1.6 BPM, 1.3 VORP

Seems like pretty similar players basically across the board.  Ingram is obviously a much larger injury risk, but actual on court production is very similar.  One guy better from 2, the other better from 3 and the line.  One guy a better rebounder, the other a better passer.

And I don't undervalue our players, I just don't overvalue them like this board does.

Ingram is a good player.  He has NOP in the playoff hunt as their best player.  He is not as good a Brown though even when healthy and has more of a durability concern.  Plus, to me, his game is more SF than SG (which I know is subjective) so he is not as good to pair with Tatum.  I don't think I am undervaluing Ingram, I just don't think a trade would make any sense.

As others have said, if it comes down to Brown demanding a trade, getting Ingram and something would not be horrible but it is not a trade I would look to do.  More like if that was the best trade you had to settle for, it would not be the end of the world.

this is another issue that strikes me as contrary to Moranis' big talking point about Brown --> that Tatum is best at SF and Brown's style impedes Tatum's game.  Ingram isn't a fit at SG or PF so he has to bump Tatum to PF which goes against Mo's philosophy of Tatum at SF AND Ingram's offensive game is less effective than Brown's in terms of being able to score so not seeing how he's more compatible with Tatum.  also, Ingram's ball handling ability is moot since Tatum typically has the ball in his hands in this offense.

bball-ref says he has played 71% of his minutes at SG this year so I'm not really worried about him and Tatum playing the 2 and 3.  He is obviously more of a natural SF, but so is Brown, however unlike Brown, Ingram has much better passing and he is also shooting much better from 3 this year than Brown is.  Those two things, in particular, I think would make him a better fit next to Tatum. 

The injury concern is real though.  I'd need more than just Ingram for Brown for that reason, but NO has enough quality players that a trade could easily be worked out.

sure a trade could be easily worked out because NO would give their eye teeth to get a player as good as Jaylen so they'd part with whatever flotsam they have on their roster to get it done

[gouki88]

It’s interesting to me that people think all these Atlanta players are good.
If trae young, Murray, Collins, Hunter are all good why are the hawks still so mediocre? Aside from Murray they have been mediocre under multiple coaches too.

Because good players can exist on poor teams

[boscel33]

Reports out of ATL are, they might move on from Young.  With Smart on the team, I don't think it's a fit, unless Smart were traded instead of JB.  I'm not much of a Young fan, maybe we can get a 3rd team involved and get a piece that fits better.  IDK.

[Roy H.]

Reports out of ATL are, they might move on from Young.  With Smart on the team, I don't think it's a fit, unless Smart were traded instead of JB.  I'm not much of a Young fan, maybe we can get a 3rd team involved and get a piece that fits better.  IDK.

What's fair value for Young?  He can single-handedly win you games.  He can put the team on his back.  But, he'll also cost plenty of games, he's a disliked teammate, and he doesn't play defense.

He's like Monta Ellis 2.0, or a PG version of Kobe that didn't play defense and didn't have the work ethic. 

His best role will probably be on a bad to mediocre team without any elite prospects that hopes to be a lower end playoff team for the next several years.

[Donoghus]

Reports out of ATL are, they might move on from Young.  With Smart on the team, I don't think it's a fit, unless Smart were traded instead of JB.  I'm not much of a Young fan, maybe we can get a 3rd team involved and get a piece that fits better.  IDK.

What's fair value for Young?  He can single-handedly win you games.  He can put the team on his back.  But, he'll also cost plenty of games, he's a disliked teammate, and he doesn't play defense.

He's like Monta Ellis 2.0, or a PG version of Kobe that didn't play defense and didn't have the work ethic. 

His best role will probably be on a bad to mediocre team without any elite prospects that hopes to be a lower end playoff team for the next several years.

Wow.  Nice pull there.

[Moranis]

Reports out of ATL are, they might move on from Young.  With Smart on the team, I don't think it's a fit, unless Smart were traded instead of JB.  I'm not much of a Young fan, maybe we can get a 3rd team involved and get a piece that fits better.  IDK.

What's fair value for Young?  He can single-handedly win you games.  He can put the team on his back.  But, he'll also cost plenty of games, he's a disliked teammate, and he doesn't play defense.

He's like Monta Ellis 2.0, or a PG version of Kobe that didn't play defense and didn't have the work ethic. 

His best role will probably be on a bad to mediocre team without any elite prospects that hopes to be a lower end playoff team for the next several years.

I still a think a 3 team trade with the C's, Blazers, and Hawks makes a lot of sense

Something like this perhaps

Boston - Lillard, Nurkic, Griffin
Atlanta - Brown, Smart, Sharpe
Portland - Young, Collins, Bey/Okongwu

[Celtics4ever]

They're all rubbish to some degree.   I like 2 best if I had to pick

3. is a bad trade, Ingram just does not seem motivated enough to win in the NBA .   

I hope Brown stays this is just another attempt to stir up trouble for the team by Bleacher report.

[Vermont Green]

I want no part of Trae Young.  I see no fit or need on the Celtics.  Same with Murray.  We already have more combo guards than we need.  If ATL were to blow it up, I would have interest in Capela but not for Brown.  They have nothing I would give up Brown for.

If I was ATL, I would probably try to trade Trae Young.  Murray can be their PG.  See if you can get a couple of solid wings for Trae.  I see it as tough to trade him though.  Not sure who would give up value for him.

[gouki88]

Reports out of ATL are, they might move on from Young.  With Smart on the team, I don't think it's a fit, unless Smart were traded instead of JB.  I'm not much of a Young fan, maybe we can get a 3rd team involved and get a piece that fits better.  IDK.

What's fair value for Young?  He can single-handedly win you games.  He can put the team on his back.  But, he'll also cost plenty of games, he's a disliked teammate, and he doesn't play defense.

He's like Monta Ellis 2.0, or a PG version of Kobe that didn't play defense and didn't have the work ethic. 

His best role will probably be on a bad to mediocre team without any elite prospects that hopes to be a lower end playoff team for the next several years.

I still a think a 3 team trade with the C's, Blazers, and Hawks makes a lot of sense

Something like this perhaps

Boston - Lillard, Nurkic, Griffin
Atlanta - Brown, Smart, Sharpe
Portland - Young, Collins, Bey/Okongwu

I would do this 100/100 times. A team of the below is nasty!

Lillard / Pritchard
White / Brogdon
Tatum / Hauser / Griffin
Horford / G-Will
R-Will3 / Nurkic

[tazzmaniac]

I really don't understand all this trade talk at playoff time.  The Celts are one of the two best teams and have a good chance of winning the championship.  Breaking up a potential championship tea, for the players being mentioned would be idiotic.  I remember Jrue abusing Lillard in the playoffs several years ago. 

[slamtheking]

Reports out of ATL are, they might move on from Young.  With Smart on the team, I don't think it's a fit, unless Smart were traded instead of JB.  I'm not much of a Young fan, maybe we can get a 3rd team involved and get a piece that fits better.  IDK.

What's fair value for Young?  He can single-handedly win you games.  He can put the team on his back.  But, he'll also cost plenty of games, he's a disliked teammate, and he doesn't play defense.

He's like Monta Ellis 2.0, or a PG version of Kobe that didn't play defense and didn't have the work ethic. 

His best role will probably be on a bad to mediocre team without any elite prospects that hopes to be a lower end playoff team for the next several years.

I still a think a 3 team trade with the C's, Blazers, and Hawks makes a lot of sense

Something like this perhaps

Boston - Lillard, Nurkic, Griffin
Atlanta - Brown, Smart, Sharpe
Portland - Young, Collins, Bey/Okongwu

I would do this 100/100 times. A team of the below is nasty!

Lillard / Pritchard
White / Brogdon
Tatum / Hauser / Griffin
Horford / G-Will
R-Will3 / Nurkic

I'd do this 0/100 times.  the money Lillard is expecting in his next deal -- at his age well into his 30's - is a franchise killer.   absolutely no way do I want to be the sucker paying Lillard on his next deal -- especially with his lack of D added to that contract at his age.