Three Bleacher Report trade proposals

[slamtheking]

Those trades are inline with what I think we'd get for Brown.  I proposed something very similar to each of those at various times as well.  Given Ingram's injury history, I'd definitely want something else.  I'd want Murphy or Jones, but might settle for Alvarado and a 1st.

which proves my point about them being underpayments since your track record consistently undervalues anyone on the C's roster while inflating the value of any other player in the league.

Ingram, Murray and Collins are all underwhelming players and not as good as Jaylen.  IF, and only IF, Jaylen states he wants to leave Boston (which I don't see happening) Brad would need to get a lot better deal than any of these proposals.   Close to what Utah got for Mitchell or for Gobert -- especially the picks

One of these guys is Ingram, the other is Brown.

26.7 p, 6.8 r, 3.4 a, 1.1 s, 0.4 b, 2.9 t, 55.2 2P, 33.9 3P, 76.9 FT, 58.5 TS%, 19.3 PER, .104 WS/48, 1.3 BPM, 2.0 VORP
24.5 p, 5.3 r, 5.6 a, 0.6 s, 0.4 b, 3.2 t, 50.5 2P, 40.3 3P, 88.2 FT, 58.3 TS%, 19.1 PER, .105 WS/48, 1.6 BPM, 1.3 VORP

Seems like pretty similar players basically across the board.  Ingram is obviously a much larger injury risk, but actual on court production is very similar.  One guy better from 2, the other better from 3 and the line.  One guy a better rebounder, the other a better passer.

And I don't undervalue our players, I just don't overvalue them like this board does.

Ingram is a good player.  He has NOP in the playoff hunt as their best player.  He is not as good a Brown though even when healthy and has more of a durability concern.  Plus, to me, his game is more SF than SG (which I know is subjective) so he is not as good to pair with Tatum.  I don't think I am undervaluing Ingram, I just don't think a trade would make any sense.

As others have said, if it comes down to Brown demanding a trade, getting Ingram and something would not be horrible but it is not a trade I would look to do.  More like if that was the best trade you had to settle for, it would not be the end of the world.

this is another issue that strikes me as contrary to Moranis' big talking point about Brown --> that Tatum is best at SF and Brown's style impedes Tatum's game.  Ingram isn't a fit at SG or PF so he has to bump Tatum to PF which goes against Mo's philosophy of Tatum at SF AND Ingram's offensive game is less effective than Brown's in terms of being able to score so not seeing how he's more compatible with Tatum.  also, Ingram's ball handling ability is moot since Tatum typically has the ball in his hands in this offense.

[Vermont Green]

Ingram is a good player.  He has NOP in the playoff hunt as their best player.  He is not as good a Brown though even when healthy and has more of a durability concern.  Plus, to me, his game is more SF than SG (which I know is subjective) so he is not as good to pair with Tatum.  I don't think I am undervaluing Ingram, I just don't think a trade would make any sense.

As others have said, if it comes down to Brown demanding a trade, getting Ingram and something would not be horrible but it is not a trade I would look to do.  More like if that was the best trade you had to settle for, it would not be the end of the world.

this is another issue that strikes me as contrary to Moranis' big talking point about Brown --> that Tatum is best at SF and Brown's style impedes Tatum's game.  Ingram isn't a fit at SG or PF so he has to bump Tatum to PF which goes against Mo's philosophy of Tatum at SF AND Ingram's offensive game is less effective than Brown's in terms of being able to score so not seeing how he's more compatible with Tatum.  also, Ingram's ball handling ability is moot since Tatum typically has the ball in his hands in this offense.

I am not trying to single out anyone for their opinions but I don't think Brown is impeding anyone.  I agree that Tatum's natural position is SF.  And if you ask him to play any other position, it is not going to be the best for the player or the team.  Ingram and Brown can both play either SF or SG but I see Brown as a natural SG and Ingram as a natural SF.  The difference isn't huge but in my mind, you want your best players playing their natural positions.

For NOP, Ingram played most of his minutes on the floor with Herbert Jones.  Jones probably assumed more of the guard role and Ingram more of a SF role.  I think if we did trade for Ingram, he would probably play as more of a guard, not his natural position but not the end of the world.  Smart-Ingram-Tatum-Horford-RWill would be a good line up but not as good as the line up with Brown.

And I know that it is just semantics but I don't think Tatum ever plays PF.  The team just chooses to play with 2 guards (Smart and White), 2 wings (Brown and Tatum), and a big (Horford).  Nothing wrong with that, it has actually been a good line up.  It is like when a football team plays with 2 TE or 5 WR.  You don't say that the second TE is playing WR or that the 5th WR is playing RB.  It is just how the team is lining up for that situation or match up.

[Roy H.]

Ingram is a good player.  He has NOP in the playoff hunt as their best player.  He is not as good a Brown though even when healthy and has more of a durability concern.  Plus, to me, his game is more SF than SG (which I know is subjective) so he is not as good to pair with Tatum.  I don't think I am undervaluing Ingram, I just don't think a trade would make any sense.

As others have said, if it comes down to Brown demanding a trade, getting Ingram and something would not be horrible but it is not a trade I would look to do.  More like if that was the best trade you had to settle for, it would not be the end of the world.

this is another issue that strikes me as contrary to Moranis' big talking point about Brown --> that Tatum is best at SF and Brown's style impedes Tatum's game.  Ingram isn't a fit at SG or PF so he has to bump Tatum to PF which goes against Mo's philosophy of Tatum at SF AND Ingram's offensive game is less effective than Brown's in terms of being able to score so not seeing how he's more compatible with Tatum.  also, Ingram's ball handling ability is moot since Tatum typically has the ball in his hands in this offense.

I am not trying to single out anyone for their opinions but I don't think Brown is impeding anyone.  I agree that Tatum's natural position is SF.  And if you ask him to play any other position, it is not going to be the best for the player or the team.  Ingram and Brown can both play either SF or SG but I see Brown as a natural SG and Ingram as a natural SF.  The difference isn't huge but in my mind, you want your best players playing their natural positions.

For NOP, Ingram played most of his minutes on the floor with Herbert Jones.  Jones probably assumed more of the guard role and Ingram more of a SF role.  I think if we did trade for Ingram, he would probably play as more of a guard, not his natural position but not the end of the world.  Smart-Ingram-Tatum-Horford-RWill would be a good line up but not as good as the line up with Brown.

And I know that it is just semantics but I don't think Tatum every plays PF.  The team just chooses to play with 2 guards (Smart and White), 2 wings (Brown and Tatum), and a big (Horford).  Nothing wrong with that, it has actually been a good line up.  It is like when a football team plays with 2 TE or 5 WR.  You don't say that the second TE is playing WR or that the 5th WR is playing RB.  It is just how the team is lining up for that situation or match up.

As JB said recently:

“Jayson being the ultimate version of him doesn’t stop me from being the ultimate version of myself.”

[slamtheking]

Ingram is a good player.  He has NOP in the playoff hunt as their best player.  He is not as good a Brown though even when healthy and has more of a durability concern.  Plus, to me, his game is more SF than SG (which I know is subjective) so he is not as good to pair with Tatum.  I don't think I am undervaluing Ingram, I just don't think a trade would make any sense.

As others have said, if it comes down to Brown demanding a trade, getting Ingram and something would not be horrible but it is not a trade I would look to do.  More like if that was the best trade you had to settle for, it would not be the end of the world.

this is another issue that strikes me as contrary to Moranis' big talking point about Brown --> that Tatum is best at SF and Brown's style impedes Tatum's game.  Ingram isn't a fit at SG or PF so he has to bump Tatum to PF which goes against Mo's philosophy of Tatum at SF AND Ingram's offensive game is less effective than Brown's in terms of being able to score so not seeing how he's more compatible with Tatum.  also, Ingram's ball handling ability is moot since Tatum typically has the ball in his hands in this offense.

I am not trying to single out anyone for their opinions but I don't think Brown is impeding anyone.  I agree that Tatum's natural position is SF.  And if you ask him to play any other position, it is not going to be the best for the player or the team.  Ingram and Brown can both play either SF or SG but I see Brown as a natural SG and Ingram as a natural SF.  The difference isn't huge but in my mind, you want your best players playing their natural positions.

For NOP, Ingram played most of his minutes on the floor with Herbert Jones.  Jones probably assumed more of the guard role and Ingram more of a SF role.  I think if we did trade for Ingram, he would probably play as more of a guard, not his natural position but not the end of the world.  Smart-Ingram-Tatum-Horford-RWill would be a good line up but not as good as the line up with Brown.

And I know that it is just semantics but I don't think Tatum every plays PF.  The team just chooses to play with 2 guards (Smart and White), 2 wings (Brown and Tatum), and a big (Horford).  Nothing wrong with that, it has actually been a good line up.  It is like when a football team plays with 2 TE or 5 WR.  You don't say that the second TE is playing WR or that the 5th WR is playing RB.  It is just how the team is lining up for that situation or match up.

As JB said recently:

“Jayson being the ultimate version of him doesn’t stop me from being the ultimate version of myself.”

agreed, and vice versa

[Who]

What are people's thought's on DeAndre Hunter in a potential Hawks trade?

He seems like he's always on the cusp of breaking out but never quite gets there. Definitely has the physical profile that we would need to recoup some of the athleticism lost in a Jaylen trade but not sure if he has the drive to take the next step to undisputed starter level.

I have given up on D Hunter. I was intrigued when he came into the league and during his injury hit 2nd season but his lack of improvement since then has caused me to lose hope for him.

His game is pretty limited. A so-so jump-shooter who doesn't get many easy scores arond the rim due to limited athleticism. A poor ball-handler and a poor passer who hurts team offense. Too one dimensional and not good at that one dimension on offense. 

Too ground bound and limited explosion to the ball hurts his rebounding which limits his rebounding and ability to play smaller at the PF position where his offensive game is better suited to. Solid man defender mediocre team defender.

On a winning team, I see him more as a bench player than a starter. Not a 6th man either. More of a 7th-8th man type.

[Who]

I thought Ingram took a step back this year. I have been disappointed with how badly NOP has played without Zion. There is enough talent there around Ingram for NOP to be better than they are without Zion.

[Birdman]

Only way I trade Brown if he requests one

[KG Living Legend]

 Id want the Moranis package. I think it was him that suggested this.

Brown for Sengun, Jabari Smith Jr, Jalen Green. Maybe the Celtics add draft capital. Jaylen can be the man on a crap team.

[celticsclay]

 Id want the Moranis package. I think it was him that suggested this.

Brown for Sengun, Jabari Smith Jr, Jalen Green. Maybe the Celtics add draft capital. Jaylen can be the man on a crap team.

Does Tatum demand a trade if we do that? Takes us from legit contenders to mid or lower tier playoff team immediately. Got to think about stuff like that.

[Wretch]

What are people's thought's on DeAndre Hunter in a potential Hawks trade?

He seems like he's always on the cusp of breaking out but never quite gets there. Definitely has the physical profile that we would need to recoup some of the athleticism lost in a Jaylen trade but not sure if he has the drive to take the next step to undisputed starter level.

Ryen Russillo commented on the Simmons pod that Hunter is the new Jeff Green and after thinking about it I tend to agree.  He seems to have all the tools to have a greater impact on the game but never seems to be able to do it consistently.

Pass. I like(d) Green, but his inconsistency while with the Cs was maddening.

[gouki88]

It being Bleacher Report, proposal 1 completely overlooks that Azubuike is an expiring contract this season and thus no longer eligible to be traded.

Classic

[gouki88]

 Id want the Moranis package. I think it was him that suggested this.

Brown for Sengun, Jabari Smith Jr, Jalen Green. Maybe the Celtics add draft capital. Jaylen can be the man on a crap team.

Does Tatum demand a trade if we do that? Takes us from legit contenders to mid or lower tier playoff team immediately. Got to think about stuff like that.

I'm not sure it does make us worse, especially if we got all 3 of them. The below team is super well balanced, we'd have secured two Horford replacements, our depth is massively improved, and the room for improvement from the 3 additions is very significant. A 21 year-old wing who is a 20+ nightly scorer, a 20 year-old big who is looking like the next Sabonis, and a 19 year-old big who has the tools to be anything. We'd have the best bench in the competition.

White / Smart
Green / Brogdon
Tatum / Grant W or Hauser
Horford / Smith
Timelord / Sengun

I'd still prefer a package with a star player coming back, but I think that team would be very strong.

[celticsclay]

It’s interesting to me that people think all these Atlanta players are good.
If trae young, Murray, Collins, Hunter are all good why are the hawks still so mediocre? Aside from Murray they have been mediocre under multiple coaches too.

[Neurotic Guy]

Does it feel like more trade talk than usual for a team with 2nd best record in the League and a roster that is arguably the best in the league (certainly top 3)?  And… playoffs about to start.   So much to learn about this team in the next couple months.  Then trade talk makes more sense, doesn’t it?

[celticsclay]

Does it feel like more trade talk than usual for a team with 2nd best record in the League and a roster that is arguably the best in the league (certainly top 3)?  And… playoffs about to start.   So much to learn about this team in the next couple months.  Then trade talk makes more sense, doesn’t it?

A few people having an ax to grind jb is why there is so much of this. Notice there hasn’t been a single proposal for another member of our team in many months (with possible exception of Pritchard who kind of asked for a trade).