Author Topic: The narrative is back: Boston is racist  (Read 14572 times)

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Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2023, 09:35:33 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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This is a tough one, it's not usually even feasible to defend the use of a racial slur but I wonder how many people really even knew it was a slur unless they were taking hardcore Ethnic and Gender Studies classes. That being said, maybe Curtis grew up in a house where the slur was used.

The user denies intent of the slur. The aggrieved party is clearly offended and thinks it was intentional. (My brother tells me that Mila Kimes is big into the Stop Asian Hate movement)

If Curtis did mean to say it, I wish he would just own up to it but he's also going to try to save his career. Honestly he might not even know if he meant to say it. Maybe his brain made multiple associations in the moment and he Freudian slipped the one that he meant to keep private.

Weird situation, overall I bet he get's canned but I agree with Roy that this shouldn't be just a blanket indictment on the city as a whole. New York has racist elements but gets the benefit of the doubt because it considered a great place to live for people of color. Boston has to be one of the top 3 cities in the US for Asian Americans given their representation in the universities and the booming Biotech industry. Is it possible to give the city some credit instead of the constant whippings in the media?

Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2023, 10:56:28 PM »

Online kraidstar

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This is a tough one, it's not usually even feasible to defend the use of a racial slur but I wonder how many people really even knew it was a slur unless they were taking hardcore Ethnic and Gender Studies classes. That being said, maybe Curtis grew up in a house where the slur was used.

The user denies intent of the slur. The aggrieved party is clearly offended and thinks it was intentional. (My brother tells me that Mila Kimes is big into the Stop Asian Hate movement)

If Curtis did mean to say it, I wish he would just own up to it but he's also going to try to save his career. Honestly he might not even know if he meant to say it. Maybe his brain made multiple associations in the moment and he Freudian slipped the one that he meant to keep private.

Weird situation, overall I bet he get's canned but I agree with Roy that this shouldn't be just a blanket indictment on the city as a whole. New York has racist elements but gets the benefit of the doubt because it considered a great place to live for people of color. Boston has to be one of the top 3 cities in the US for Asian Americans given their representation in the universities and the booming Biotech industry. Is it possible to give the city some credit instead of the constant whippings in the media?

Good post, TP.

The mind is a funny thing. Maybe his brain cooked up some triple entendre, and he didn't even realize he was saying it until he did. It's impossible to know his true intentions or train of thought. IMO more evidence is needed before morally convicting someone of something this serious.  And, like yo said, he himself might not even know the true reasons why his mind associated the way it did. I'm sure it's something he'll be reflecting on, though.

And I also think if you put most people in front of a mic for long enough, they would eventually say something stupid and offensive. There are so many words and topics that are off-limits on-air. It takes a certain skill set to self-regulate for hours and hours on end, day after day.


Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2023, 10:58:30 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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This time from USA Today, due to idiotic radio programming.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/racial-slur-hurled-espns-mina-131355929.html

The media loves to create a narrative and run with it.

Freeman touched all the bases, the city of Boston, President Trump, Fox News. Why stop there ?
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Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2023, 11:26:24 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Not a narrative when racists make racists comments with basically no consquences.
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Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2023, 11:51:32 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

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I used to listen to WEEI every morning driving into work. Dennis and Callahan, then Kirk joined. Once John Dennis left, the show became garbage. Curtis was the producer of those shows and he’s always been a moron. I’m surprised he doesn’t slip up more, tbh. I don’t think he’s a racist, though.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 12:18:33 AM by Goldstar88 »
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Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2023, 12:51:23 AM »

Online SparzWizard

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Now this is one reason why it'll further influence Jaylen Brown's decision to either stay in Boston or go elsewhere


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Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2023, 01:16:38 AM »

Offline celticsclay

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Good god is this a stretch. Nips is definitely not a commonly used slur and hasn’t been been for like 50 years. We all watch shows like the wire, mayor of kingstown, movies taking place in southie that exaggerate everything and use every slur in the book. They don’t use this. if you polled people under 50 3% may have heard it in an old movie. The last show that anyone has found to use it is Mchales navy from 1962.


 Now what he was actually doing talking about a woman’s body sexually for no reason is absolutely ridiculous and he should be fired for that. But this extreme bizarre fetish america has with making things about race has gotten beyond ridiculous. The obvious clear explanation that makes 50x more sense is an older man lewdly and unprofessionally objectifying a woman, which is a sadly real and all too common problem. What’s next? We firing someone for mentioning the term peanut gallery or grandfathers cause of where the terms derives from? Good grief. Fire him for how he talks about women as a professional, not for making a giant nonsensical leap to a never used half century old slur.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2023, 01:25:14 AM by celticsclay »

Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2023, 03:00:56 AM »

Offline GreenBoomer

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Celtics organization, let's  see. I believe they had the first black NBA player, first all-black starting lineup, first black head coach. What did I miss.

Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2023, 06:36:23 AM »

Online Neurotic Guy

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I’m not sure how people are so sure of Curtis’ intent.  Either way, as reference to her nipples or her ethnicity, it’s out of bounds.  The term, as reference to a Japanese person was very much alive in my childhood. Frankly, McHales Navy was part of my childhood, and the term was used in the show regularly. People who grew up in the 60’s were aware that the term was a negative reference to Japanese people. Obviously I can’t speak for everyone, but there’s no chance my known contemporaries (friends; family) are unaware of the term. Sorry to say it, but we used the term as kids - and in inappropriate joking ways as young adults.

I think it’s equally likely that Curtis used the term as a lewd objectification of a woman than as a racial reference.  And because I usually take people at their word, I believe him if that’s what he says.  That said, I don’t think it’s wrong to question whether it may have been a racial reference or to point out that our political climate has become one in which people feel emboldened to deny racism and defend subtle forms of racial stereotyping and bias as harmless.  You can now be labeled ‘woke’ and mocked for pointing out a racial reference. 

That said, I prefer to label America, rather than Boston, as a place where racial biases and stereotyping still  exist while extreme forms of racism are practiced by a small minority. I have no idea how Boston compares to other American cities in that regard. But to suggest that, in Boston, ideas about people aren’t influenced by race is a denial of reality in my opinion. Doesn’t mean I think we’re active racists by any means - or that 99% wouldn’t use the n-word - that I do believe. I just think most of us, myself included, are wrongly influenced by race (among many other physical/observable characteristics) and sometimes our notions, in knee-jerk ways often as attempts at humor or to ‘belong’ find their way to the surface.

Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2023, 07:24:34 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Not a narrative when racists make racists comments with basically no consquences.
This is kind of it, tbh.

As far as these stories go, reactions from Bostonians about Boston not being racist boil down to "the locals doth protest too much, methinks". Unless you're very very blindered and sincerely think "it can't happen here", you're probably just glossing over or conveniently ignoring what you've seen in real life because someone from elsewhere brought it up.

as far as being 'hardcore into ethnic studies' to know if this is a slur, maybe he's just a Bugs Bunny fan? Much as people like to claim racism is 'ancient history' this cartoon is what, 1-2 generations back from this producer?

Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2023, 07:32:01 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I’m not sure how people are so sure of Curtis’ intent.  Either way, as reference to her nipples or her ethnicity, it’s out of bounds.  The term, as reference to a Japanese person was very much alive in my childhood. Frankly, McHales Navy was part of my childhood, and the term was used in the show regularly. People who grew up in the 60’s were aware that the term was a negative reference to Japanese people. Obviously I can’t speak for everyone, but there’s no chance my known contemporaries (friends; family) are unaware of the term. Sorry to say it, but we used the term as kids - and in inappropriate joking ways as young adults.

I think it’s equally likely that Curtis used the term as a lewd objectification of a woman than as a racial reference.  And because I usually take people at their word, I believe him if that’s what he says.  That said, I don’t think it’s wrong to question whether it may have been a racial reference or to point out that our political climate has become one in which people feel emboldened to deny racism and defend subtle forms of racial stereotyping and bias as harmless.  You can now be labeled ‘woke’ and mocked for pointing out a racial reference. 

That said, I prefer to label America, rather than Boston, as a place where racial biases and stereotyping still  exist while extreme forms of racism are practiced by a small minority. I have no idea how Boston compares to other American cities in that regard. But to suggest that, in Boston, ideas about people aren’t influenced by race is a denial of reality in my opinion. Doesn’t mean I think we’re active racists by any means - or that 99% wouldn’t use the n-word - that I do believe. I just think most of us, myself included, are wrongly influenced by race (among many other physical/observable characteristics) and sometimes our notions, in knee-jerk ways often as attempts at humor or to ‘belong’ find their way to the surface.

I agree with very much of this.  But, it's the first line that resonates:

"I’m not sure how people are so sure of Curtis’ intent."

That's the key question.  Only one person alive knows the intent.  And yet, in headlines all over the country, the meathead is being labeled a racist, for intentionally using a racial slur.  Here's the headline of the article I linked to:

"Racial slur hurled at ESPN's Mina Kimes once again puts Boston racism in spotlight".

Is that a fair headline, in any way?  I care way, way more about Boston than I do the speaker (I'm not even sure their name).  But, it's at best questionable whether it was a racial slur.  It absolutely was not "hurled".  And, "Boston racism" is only in the spotlight because the media is taking a possible non-incident and broadcasting it to millions upon millions of people.

One other thing I'd point out from your post:

Quote
I don’t think it’s wrong to question whether it may have been a racial reference or to point out that our political climate has become one in which people feel emboldened to deny racism and defend subtle forms of racial stereotyping and bias as harmless.  You can now be labeled ‘woke’ and mocked for pointing out a racial reference.

This is a fine point, but there's a flip-side.  You can now be labeled "racist" and painted with a modern-day scarlet letter for all kinds of speech or actions that are innocuous.  We live in a society where, perversely, there is value and fame in being a victim (see Jussie Smollett), and where the burden of proof on the accused is to prove innocence.


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Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2023, 08:58:38 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Not a narrative when racists make racists comments with basically no consquences.
This is kind of it, tbh.

As far as these stories go, reactions from Bostonians about Boston not being racist boil down to "the locals doth protest too much, methinks". Unless you're very very blindered and sincerely think "it can't happen here", you're probably just glossing over or conveniently ignoring what you've seen in real life because someone from elsewhere brought it up.

as far as being 'hardcore into ethnic studies' to know if this is a slur, maybe he's just a Bugs Bunny fan? Much as people like to claim racism is 'ancient history' this cartoon is what, 1-2 generations back from this producer?

That is from 1944!!   

Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2023, 09:07:33 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Not a narrative when racists make racists comments with basically no consquences.
This is kind of it, tbh.

As far as these stories go, reactions from Bostonians about Boston not being racist boil down to "the locals doth protest too much, methinks". Unless you're very very blindered and sincerely think "it can't happen here", you're probably just glossing over or conveniently ignoring what you've seen in real life because someone from elsewhere brought it up.

as far as being 'hardcore into ethnic studies' to know if this is a slur, maybe he's just a Bugs Bunny fan? Much as people like to claim racism is 'ancient history' this cartoon is what, 1-2 generations back from this producer?

That is from 1944!!

Yeah.  I'm not sure its fair to impute knowledge of 1940s vernacular to the average 50 year old today. 

Flash poll from those below the age of 60:  have you ever watched even ten seconds of McHale's Navy?  I love history and I watch a lot of TV, but I've never watched that one.  Plenty of MASH, a small bit of Hogan's Heroes, but never McHale's Navy.


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Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2023, 09:11:59 AM »

Offline Kernewek

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Not a narrative when racists make racists comments with basically no consquences.
This is kind of it, tbh.

As far as these stories go, reactions from Bostonians about Boston not being racist boil down to "the locals doth protest too much, methinks". Unless you're very very blindered and sincerely think "it can't happen here", you're probably just glossing over or conveniently ignoring what you've seen in real life because someone from elsewhere brought it up.

as far as being 'hardcore into ethnic studies' to know if this is a slur, maybe he's just a Bugs Bunny fan? Much as people like to claim racism is 'ancient history' this cartoon is what, 1-2 generations back from this producer?

That is from 1944!!

Yeah.  I'm not sure its fair to impute knowledge of 1940s vernacular to the average 50 year old today. 

Flash poll from those below the age of 60:  have you ever watched even ten seconds of McHale's Navy?  I love history and I watch a lot of TV, but I've never watched that one.  Plenty of MASH, a small bit of Hogan's Heroes, but never McHale's Navy.

My point is that it’s not “knowledge from the 40’s” it’s that this was a pervasive, well known slur. And if you were born in the 70’s, it’s not unlikely that your parents or your parents’ friends or your grand parents would have used the term.

I’ve seen McHale’s Navy, and I’m also aware of nip as a slur. Next question?
Man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time.

But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.

Re: The narrative is back: Boston is racist
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2023, 09:14:23 AM »

Offline Moranis

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At least he was suspended a week, but he should be fired.  Even if you believe him, that sort of sexist misogynistic garbage has no place in sports.  Couple that with Mas from about a month ago making a clearly racist comment, and it should come as no surprise why Boston has the reputation it has.  Because apparently being racist and/or sexist is only worth a week off of work.  That is the image being sent.  Minor penalty and you go back to normal.  Until Boston removes the acceptance of racism from highly visible places like the radio, it will never change its image.
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