Scottie Pippen has lost his mind (Lebron > MJ?)

[soap07]

MJ dominiated with skill.  LBJ dominates with athleticism.  I'm fairly certain LBJ is on performance enhancers.  He shows all the tell tale signs; jaw and forehead growth, receeding hairline, growth in jaw that had to be removed, unnatural weight/muscle gain.  Now LBJ is still a very talented player; all the PED's in the world won't give you talent.  But when you take a talented player and give him more jump, more speed, more endurance, there won't be any match for them.

I see this comparision like comparing Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds to Reggie Jackson or Mike Schmidt. 

LBJ isn't a freak of nature, he's a freak of science.

Best post all day. TP.

How is this a good post again?

[hpantazo]

MJ dominiated with skill.  LBJ dominates with athleticism.  I'm fairly certain LBJ is on performance enhancers.  He shows all the tell tale signs; jaw and forehead growth, receeding hairline, growth in jaw that had to be removed, unnatural weight/muscle gain.  Now LBJ is still a very talented player; all the PED's in the world won't give you talent.  But when you take a talented player and give him more jump, more speed, more endurance, there won't be any match for them.

I see this comparision like comparing Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds to Reggie Jackson or Mike Schmidt. 

LBJ isn't a freak of nature, he's a freak of science.

Best post all day. TP.

How is this a good post again?

it's not a good post. it's a great post.

[BballTim]

Michael played at a higher pace, his teams usually had 5-10 more possessions per game (depends on the year). If you pace adjust their numbers are very even.

The question is does LeBron sustain this?

Well, yes. But there is also the matter of efficiency. Lebron's playoff average is 45.9 fg% and 32.3% 3pt. Jordan only shot worse than that 3 times out of 13 for fg, and 5 out of 13 for 3pt. Lebron's average PER is 27, and MJ only had worse playoffs than that 3 times.

That in an era where rules were a lot less wing friendly. And that is including Jordan over 30.

  Didn't they used to have a rule that if the offensive player was outside the three point line the defender had to be outside the foul line?

[syfy9]

I'd sooner compare Kobe to Jordan before I do with Lebron. And I will never compare Kobe to Jordan.

[Steve Weinman]

If he goes max more often he probably would have a chip by now.

I'm curious: In which season was LeBron not "[going] max more often" the difference in his team not winning the championship?

Was it 2007, when he put the Cavs on his back en route to an Eastern Conference title before struggling against a Spurs team that was superior in every conceivable capacity except for "has LeBron James on roster"?

Was it 2008, when LeBron fought off a tremendous Boston defense that had put the clamps on him earlier in the series on his way to a 45-point performance in an epic shootout with Paul Pierce in Game 7?

Or 2009 - a year, by the way, in which LeBron has been accused by some very public figures of quitting on the team, a truly criminal accusation if ever there were one - when he nearly averaged a 40-10 in the Conference Finals against Orlando?

Yes, some very weird things went on with James in the final two games of the Cavaliers' 2010 series with the Celtics.  Yes, he didn't seem to be himself, though on a team that featured Mike Brown doing things like asking Shaquille O'Neal to stick with Kevin Garnett outside the paint (which he presumably felt he had to do because asking Antawn Jamison to stick with just about anyone wasn't working) and Mo Williams generally being confused, it seems more than a bit naive to pin that whole mess at LeBron's feet as well.

I get that he doesn't appear to have Jordan's single-mindedness, but it seems the exaggeration exists in the use of this as chief rhetoric against his stature in the game today.

-sw

[Steve Weinman]

MJ dominiated with skill.  LBJ dominates with athleticism.  I'm fairly certain LBJ is on performance enhancers.  He shows all the tell tale signs; jaw and forehead growth, receeding hairline, growth in jaw that had to be removed, unnatural weight/muscle gain.  Now LBJ is still a very talented player; all the PED's in the world won't give you talent.  But when you take a talented player and give him more jump, more speed, more endurance, there won't be any match for them.

I see this comparision like comparing Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds to Reggie Jackson or Mike Schmidt. 

LBJ isn't a freak of nature, he's a freak of science.

Best post all day. TP.

How is this a good post again?

it's not a good post. it's a great post.

In that it's an accusation against someone who to my knowledge has never been credibly linked to the illicit behavior suggested, or am I missing something as well?

-sw

[Brendan]

MJ dominiated with skill.  LBJ dominates with athleticism.  I'm fairly certain LBJ is on performance enhancers.  He shows all the tell tale signs; jaw and forehead growth, receeding hairline, growth in jaw that had to be removed, unnatural weight/muscle gain.  Now LBJ is still a very talented player; all the PED's in the world won't give you talent.  But when you take a talented player and give him more jump, more speed, more endurance, there won't be any match for them.

I see this comparision like comparing Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds to Reggie Jackson or Mike Schmidt. 

LBJ isn't a freak of nature, he's a freak of science.

Best post all day. TP.

How is this a good post again?

it's not a good post. it's a great post.

In that it's an accusation against someone who to my knowledge has never been credibly linked to the illicit behavior suggested, or am I missing something as well?

-sw

Leagues that don't have solid testing policies leave their athletes open to this kind of criticism. Especially the "freak" athletes that seem to defy natural boundaries.

I used to be active at Baseball Primer's site, and commented about how Bonds had to be using steroids, based on a fan's observations, I also had some inside knowledge, but didn't rely on it. People jumped down my throat for saying saber super star Bonds was juicing "without proof." 8-9 years later its clear the league wasn't policing, and when that's the case, the fans are right to doubt.

As of now I'm less than impressed with NBA testing.

[BASS_THUMPER]

grouch sounds like judge joe brown

[Brendan]

Do you have to have a championship to be considered the greatest player?

I'd say it helps.

In basketball... yes. MLB, NFL, NHL - probably not because you need so much depth.

[Steve Weinman]

MJ dominiated with skill.  LBJ dominates with athleticism.  I'm fairly certain LBJ is on performance enhancers.  He shows all the tell tale signs; jaw and forehead growth, receeding hairline, growth in jaw that had to be removed, unnatural weight/muscle gain.  Now LBJ is still a very talented player; all the PED's in the world won't give you talent.  But when you take a talented player and give him more jump, more speed, more endurance, there won't be any match for them.

I see this comparision like comparing Mark McGwire or Barry Bonds to Reggie Jackson or Mike Schmidt. 

LBJ isn't a freak of nature, he's a freak of science.

Best post all day. TP.

How is this a good post again?

it's not a good post. it's a great post.

In that it's an accusation against someone who to my knowledge has never been credibly linked to the illicit behavior suggested, or am I missing something as well?

-sw

Leagues that don't have solid testing policies leave their athletes open to this kind of criticism. Especially the "freak" athletes that seem to defy natural boundaries.

I used to be active at Baseball Primer's site, and commented about how Bonds had to be using steroids, based on a fan's observations, I also had some inside knowledge, but didn't rely on it. People jumped down my throat for saying saber super star Bonds was juicing "without proof." 8-9 years later its clear the league wasn't policing, and when that's the case, the fans are right to doubt.

As of now I'm less than impressed with NBA testing.

I should clarify: It's not that I find the idea that an athlete with his physique could be a user as completely implausible, and I follow the point you're making, Brendan.  But at a time when there has not been any credible link publicly (regardless of the reason for that, though your point there is taken as well), I'm not ready to jump on board with any particularly certain pronouncement, and I share Soap's wonderment at the reaction to it.

To that end, I should have been clearer in my initial comment, and I follow your remarks re: testing.  

-sw

[Steve Weinman]

grouch sounds like judge joe brown

Alas, BT, I'm too culturally illiterate to know who Judge Joe Brown is, so I'm not sure how whether to be honored or ashamed of myself in this instance.

Grouch grouch grouch.

-sw

[BASS_THUMPER]

lebron aint on no steroids

he corn bread and collard green fed

[dlpin]

  Didn't they used to have a rule that if the offensive player was outside the three point line the defender had to be outside the foul line?

That was part of the "no zone defenses" rule. But that didn't benefit wings. That actually benefited centers, as top wings would have someone on them anyways, and this rule simply made it harder to collapse and double centers.

[bfrombleacher]

Everybody loved MJ and there was no dispute as to whether he was the best. Even the opposing crowd cheered MJ as he climbed that mountain of accomplishment.

On the other hand...LeBron...

Michael Jordan is more than a player. He is a phenomenon.