Fire Ainge!

[BballTim]

year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild plan that may or may not work.  Gotta tank for a few more years until we can really start giving up on Ainge.

My man!
The problem with this year is that so many teams are tanking we might actually be forced in the playoffs against our will.

  The other problem is that tanking is generally defined as a team having a bad record, regardless of the circumstances that led them to that point.

Does trading your best players for draft picks qualify as tanking?

  Depends on the circumstances.

[BballTim]

year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild plan that may or may not work.  Gotta tank for a few more years until we can really start giving up on Ainge.

My man!
The problem with this year is that so many teams are tanking we might actually be forced in the playoffs against our will.

  The other problem is that tanking is generally defined as a team having a bad record, regardless of the circumstances that led them to that point.

Does trading your best players for draft picks qualify as tanking?

You mean our best players who are 37 and 38 years old, respectively, and are now solid role players on their current teams?
 

  You'd have to assume he was talking about other teams, as KG and PP weren't our best players, and clearly wouldn't have been our best players going forward.

[Celtics18]

year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild plan that may or may not work.  Gotta tank for a few more years until we can really start giving up on Ainge.

My man!
The problem with this year is that so many teams are tanking we might actually be forced in the playoffs against our will.

  The other problem is that tanking is generally defined as a team having a bad record, regardless of the circumstances that led them to that point.

Does trading your best players for draft picks qualify as tanking?

You mean our best players who are 37 and 38 years old, respectively, and are now solid role players on their current teams?

Personally, I was against trading them away for sentimentality's sake, but, I realize we weren't winning any more titles with Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett as our top dogs.

Sure, but it did not help our winning record either.
Anyway, back to your original point, unfortunately  we do not get any extra points for doing it on a plan (which will hopefully bring us back to contention) as opposed to the Pistons who simply stink. Mr Silver, are you listening?

By the two definitions of tanking which you listed above, I guess I can agree that we are following the former.  I feel fairly confident that at no point during this season will we be following the latter definition.  I'm even more confident that I won't start rooting for it. 

By all means, though, go ahead and root for the team to get bad enough that losing individual games makes more sense than winning them.

You certainly won't be alone.  Still know that you would have had way more support for your cause last year. 

[greece66]

year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild plan that may or may not work.  Gotta tank for a few more years until we can really start giving up on Ainge.

My man!
The problem with this year is that so many teams are tanking we might actually be forced in the playoffs against our will.

  The other problem is that tanking is generally defined as a team having a bad record, regardless of the circumstances that led them to that point.

Does trading your best players for draft picks qualify as tanking?

You mean our best players who are 37 and 38 years old, respectively, and are now solid role players on their current teams?

Personally, I was against trading them away for sentimentality's sake, but, I realize we weren't winning any more titles with Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett as our top dogs.

Sure, but it did not help our winning record either.
Anyway, back to your original point, unfortunately  we do not get any extra points for doing it on a plan (which will hopefully bring us back to contention) as opposed to the Pistons who simply stink. Mr Silver, are you listening?

By the two definitions of tanking which you listed above, I guess I can agree that we are following the former.  I feel fairly confident that at no point during this season will we be following the latter definition.  I'm even more confident that I won't start rooting for it. 

By all means, though, go ahead and root for the team to get bad enough that losing individual games makes more sense than winning them.

You certainly won't be alone.  Still know that you would have had way more support for your cause last year.

When exactly did I say this, again?

[Celtics18]

year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild plan that may or may not work.  Gotta tank for a few more years until we can really start giving up on Ainge.

My man!
The problem with this year is that so many teams are tanking we might actually be forced in the playoffs against our will.

  The other problem is that tanking is generally defined as a team having a bad record, regardless of the circumstances that led them to that point.

Does trading your best players for draft picks qualify as tanking?

You mean our best players who are 37 and 38 years old, respectively, and are now solid role players on their current teams?

Personally, I was against trading them away for sentimentality's sake, but, I realize we weren't winning any more titles with Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett as our top dogs.

Sure, but it did not help our winning record either.
Anyway, back to your original point, unfortunately  we do not get any extra points for doing it on a plan (which will hopefully bring us back to contention) as opposed to the Pistons who simply stink. Mr Silver, are you listening?

By the two definitions of tanking which you listed above, I guess I can agree that we are following the former.  I feel fairly confident that at no point during this season will we be following the latter definition.  I'm even more confident that I won't start rooting for it. 

By all means, though, go ahead and root for the team to get bad enough that losing individual games makes more sense than winning them.

You certainly won't be alone.  Still know that you would have had way more support for your cause last year.

When exactly did I say this, again?

My apologies.  I've misunderstood you. 

[Beat LA]

When I first started watching the Celtics in 04-05, I thought I understood what Danny was trying to build, so I was hopeful, but as the years passed, it didn't appear that he really had any clue as to what he was doing, both through the draft and especially with trades.  Still, after he had assembled a championship team that was DEEP and had the right combination of players, I thought that at last he knew what he was doing, and that he wasn't going to make the same mistakes that had occurred when he was a player, namely in terms of those teams rarely having a bench, but then he drafted Giddens, and then compounded his mistake by letting Posey - our glue-guy, our Michael Cooper - go, and once that happened I knew that we weren't going to repeat.  In 2009 he attempted to rectify the situation, but he still came up short, imo, especially when there were so many inexpensive moves that could have been made to further bolster our bench, and he only got worse from there, imo, robbing the Fantastic Four of at least one more title.  I honestly think that everything started to go wrong on the night of the 2008 draft.  Ugh.

How can anyone complain about letting Posey go?  Dude signed a four year deal. He was decent for the first year, awful for the next two, then so bad in the fourth year that Indiana cut him and no team bothered picking him up even though he couldve been had for vet minimum.  Dude was spent, and Ainge and company knew it.  The Celtics were already in luxury tax territory, and piling on that awful Posey contract would've made it worse.

I'll never understand why the owners who fit the bill of a payroll close to $70-80 million, or whatever the exact figure is/was, complain about a 'luxury tax.'  Really, guys?  How much money do you make, again?  I'm not saying that the Celtics should become the Yankees in terms of payroll, but trying to 'do it on the cheap' never works.  Look at Miami last year - they released Mike Miller, and a couple of other key guys from their 12-13 squad iirc, because their owner didn't want to pay the luxury tax, and look what happened.  They tried to replace Miller with Michael Beasley - how did that work out for them, lol?  You don't think that his three point shooting and defense would have helped in the Finals - because I do.  Not having him wasn't the sole reason why they lost, but you have to admit that he could have been a big help.  It just doesn't make sense to me - you're trying to three-peat, and now you're going to be cheap?  You only get one chance at making history like that, especially with Wade's knees , so, imo, you go for it, because, if you were their owner, in 10-20 years, what would you regret more - losing a bit of cash, or losing a title?  Right.  Tickets to these games are astronomically expensive, but you don't want to pay a luxury tax?  Come on.

In our case, it's not just that Ainge didn't re-sign Posey - it's that he also failed to find suitable guys to replace our 6th man, leaving us with Tony Allen .  I think you might be forgetting just how versatile Posey was, defensively.  He could guard positions 2-4, especially when the power forward of your opponent is Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison, or Lamar Odom, and there was no one else with that type of ability that we could have gotten, because the only other guy with similar attributes was Tayshaun Prince, and we had nothing to offer the Pistons.  Posey was our glue guy, a leader in the clubhouse and on the floor, a big game player, and hit so many big shots for us throughout the playoffs.  Go back and look at the clip of our record 24 point comeback in game 4 against the Lakers - he's the guy who hit those crucial threes.  I just thought, and still feel, that it was an epic blunder by Ainge to let him walk.  So you overpay for one extra year - who cares?  Something might have turned up, like David West being available for a sign-and-trade, and Posey's contract would have been a match, but even if it didn't, it's only one more year, anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1-50cf-ZJo 

[BballTim]

When I first started watching the Celtics in 04-05, I thought I understood what Danny was trying to build, so I was hopeful, but as the years passed, it didn't appear that he really had any clue as to what he was doing, both through the draft and especially with trades.  Still, after he had assembled a championship team that was DEEP and had the right combination of players, I thought that at last he knew what he was doing, and that he wasn't going to make the same mistakes that had occurred when he was a player, namely in terms of those teams rarely having a bench, but then he drafted Giddens, and then compounded his mistake by letting Posey - our glue-guy, our Michael Cooper - go, and once that happened I knew that we weren't going to repeat.  In 2009 he attempted to rectify the situation, but he still came up short, imo, especially when there were so many inexpensive moves that could have been made to further bolster our bench, and he only got worse from there, imo, robbing the Fantastic Four of at least one more title.  I honestly think that everything started to go wrong on the night of the 2008 draft.  Ugh.

How can anyone complain about letting Posey go?  Dude signed a four year deal. He was decent for the first year, awful for the next two, then so bad in the fourth year that Indiana cut him and no team bothered picking him up even though he couldve been had for vet minimum.  Dude was spent, and Ainge and company knew it.  The Celtics were already in luxury tax territory, and piling on that awful Posey contract would've made it worse.

I'll never understand why the owners who fit the bill of a payroll close to $70-80 million, or whatever the exact figure is/was, complain about a 'luxury tax.'  Really, guys?  How much money do you make, again?  I'm not saying that the Celtics should become the Yankees in terms of payroll, but trying to 'do it on the cheap' never works.  Look at Miami last year - they released Mike Miller, and a couple of other key guys from their 12-13 squad iirc, because their owner didn't want to pay the luxury tax, and look what happened.  They tried to replace Miller with Michael Beasley - how did that work out for them, lol?  You don't think that his three point shooting and defense would have helped in the Finals - because I do.  Not having him wasn't the sole reason why they lost, but you have to admit that he could have been a big help.  It just doesn't make sense to me - you're trying to three-peat, and now you're going to be cheap?  You only get one chance at making history like that, especially with Wade's knees , so, imo, you go for it, because, if you were their owner, in 10-20 years, what would you regret more - losing a bit of cash, or losing a title?  Right.  Tickets to these games are astronomically expensive, but you don't want to pay a luxury tax?  Come on.

In our case, it's not just that Ainge didn't re-sign Posey - it's that he also failed to find suitable guys to replace our 6th man, leaving us with Tony Allen .  I think you might be forgetting just how versatile Posey was, defensively.  He could guard positions 2-4, especially when the power forward of your opponent is Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison, or Lamar Odom, and there was no one else with that type of ability that we could have gotten, because the only other guy with similar attributes was Tayshaun Prince, and we had nothing to offer the Pistons.  Posey was our glue guy, a leader in the clubhouse and on the floor, a big game player, and hit so many big shots for us throughout the playoffs.  Go back and look at the clip of our record 24 point comeback in game 4 against the Lakers - he's the guy who hit those crucial threes.  I just thought, and still feel, that it was an epic blunder by Ainge to let him walk.  So you overpay for one extra year - who cares?  Something might have turned up, like David West being available for a sign-and-trade, and Posey's contract would have been a match, but even if it didn't, it's only one more year, anyway.

  Tony Allen guarded all three of Wade/James/Kobe in 2010 better than Posey ever would have.

[MBunge]

year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild plan that may or may not work.  Gotta tank for a few more years until we can really start giving up on Ainge.

My man!
The problem with this year is that so many teams are tanking we might actually be forced in the playoffs against our will.

  The other problem is that tanking is generally defined as a team having a bad record, regardless of the circumstances that led them to that point.

Not really.  How many times did anyone accuse the Bucks of tanking last season?  Did anyone think the Pistons were tanking?  The T-Word was rarely applied to the KG/Pierce trade.

Nobody hard much of a problem with tanking until Philly took it to such a ridiculous extent.

Mike

[BballTim]

year 2 of a 3-5 year rebuild plan that may or may not work.  Gotta tank for a few more years until we can really start giving up on Ainge.

My man!
The problem with this year is that so many teams are tanking we might actually be forced in the playoffs against our will.

  The other problem is that tanking is generally defined as a team having a bad record, regardless of the circumstances that led them to that point.

Not really.  How many times did anyone accuse the Bucks of tanking last season?  Did anyone think the Pistons were tanking?  The T-Word was rarely applied to the KG/Pierce trade.

Nobody hard much of a problem with tanking until Philly took it to such a ridiculous extent.

Mike

  People here were accusing every team with a bad record of tanking. All season people were talking about how bad teams were and what a race to the bottom it was. It was a bunch of nonsense but you heard a lot of it. Especially since the Celts were bad and all of the other crappy teams were talked up in the preseason as teams that were "clearly better than Boston".

[freshinthehouse]

I'll never understand why the owners who fit the bill of a payroll close to $70-80 million, or whatever the exact figure is/was, complain about a 'luxury tax.'  Really, guys?  How much money do you make, again?  I'm not saying that the Celtics should become the Yankees in terms of payroll, but trying to 'do it on the cheap' never works.

To be fair to Wyc and co., they weren't doing it on the cheap.  During the Big three era they were usually top three in payroll, and were paying the luxury tax limits.  But even multi-millioniares like Wyc have limits.  The C's owners aren't Paul Allen.  Obviously they aren't gonna be pick up night jobs at Car's Jr to make ends meet, but they can't throw millions away to luxury tax and not feel the pinch in some way.
 

I think you might be forgetting just how versatile Posey was, defensively.  He could guard positions 2-4, especially when the power forward of your opponent is Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison, or Lamar Odom, and there was no one else with that type of ability that we could have gotten, because the only other guy with similar attributes was Tayshaun Prince, and we had nothing to offer the Pistons.  Posey was our glue guy, a leader in the clubhouse and on the floor, a big game player, and hit so many big shots for us throughout the playoffs.  Go back and look at the clip of our record 24 point comeback in game 4 against the Lakers - he's the guy who hit those crucial threes.  I just thought, and still feel, that it was an epic blunder by Ainge to let him walk.  So you overpay for one extra year - who cares?  Something might have turned up, like David West being available for a sign-and-trade, and Posey's contract would have been a match, but even if it didn't, it's only one more year, anyway.

Trust me, I remember Posey well.  He was a very good role player.  But that's all he was, a role player.  And Danny rightly knew that he was spent, and didn't match the Hornets offer.  Dude signed a four year deal.  He was good for one, awful for two years, and was so bad on the fourth year the Pacers paid him to stay home. That's a bad investment. 

[Beat LA]

When I first started watching the Celtics in 04-05, I thought I understood what Danny was trying to build, so I was hopeful, but as the years passed, it didn't appear that he really had any clue as to what he was doing, both through the draft and especially with trades.  Still, after he had assembled a championship team that was DEEP and had the right combination of players, I thought that at last he knew what he was doing, and that he wasn't going to make the same mistakes that had occurred when he was a player, namely in terms of those teams rarely having a bench, but then he drafted Giddens, and then compounded his mistake by letting Posey - our glue-guy, our Michael Cooper - go, and once that happened I knew that we weren't going to repeat.  In 2009 he attempted to rectify the situation, but he still came up short, imo, especially when there were so many inexpensive moves that could have been made to further bolster our bench, and he only got worse from there, imo, robbing the Fantastic Four of at least one more title.  I honestly think that everything started to go wrong on the night of the 2008 draft.  Ugh.

How can anyone complain about letting Posey go?  Dude signed a four year deal. He was decent for the first year, awful for the next two, then so bad in the fourth year that Indiana cut him and no team bothered picking him up even though he couldve been had for vet minimum.  Dude was spent, and Ainge and company knew it.  The Celtics were already in luxury tax territory, and piling on that awful Posey contract would've made it worse.

I'll never understand why the owners who fit the bill of a payroll close to $70-80 million, or whatever the exact figure is/was, complain about a 'luxury tax.'  Really, guys?  How much money do you make, again?  I'm not saying that the Celtics should become the Yankees in terms of payroll, but trying to 'do it on the cheap' never works.  Look at Miami last year - they released Mike Miller, and a couple of other key guys from their 12-13 squad iirc, because their owner didn't want to pay the luxury tax, and look what happened.  They tried to replace Miller with Michael Beasley - how did that work out for them, lol?  You don't think that his three point shooting and defense would have helped in the Finals - because I do.  Not having him wasn't the sole reason why they lost, but you have to admit that he could have been a big help.  It just doesn't make sense to me - you're trying to three-peat, and now you're going to be cheap?  You only get one chance at making history like that, especially with Wade's knees , so, imo, you go for it, because, if you were their owner, in 10-20 years, what would you regret more - losing a bit of cash, or losing a title?  Right.  Tickets to these games are astronomically expensive, but you don't want to pay a luxury tax?  Come on.

In our case, it's not just that Ainge didn't re-sign Posey - it's that he also failed to find suitable guys to replace our 6th man, leaving us with Tony Allen .  I think you might be forgetting just how versatile Posey was, defensively.  He could guard positions 2-4, especially when the power forward of your opponent is Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison, or Lamar Odom, and there was no one else with that type of ability that we could have gotten, because the only other guy with similar attributes was Tayshaun Prince, and we had nothing to offer the Pistons.  Posey was our glue guy, a leader in the clubhouse and on the floor, a big game player, and hit so many big shots for us throughout the playoffs.  Go back and look at the clip of our record 24 point comeback in game 4 against the Lakers - he's the guy who hit those crucial threes.  I just thought, and still feel, that it was an epic blunder by Ainge to let him walk.  So you overpay for one extra year - who cares?  Something might have turned up, like David West being available for a sign-and-trade, and Posey's contract would have been a match, but even if it didn't, it's only one more year, anyway.

  Tony Allen guarded all three of Wade/James/Kobe in 2010 better than Posey ever would have.

I might concede Wade, but not Lebron, and definitely not Kobe.  The real question is, would Wesley Matthews have defended those guys as well as, or better than, TA, because he should have been a Celtic; and for whatever he gave up on defense, he would have made up for on offense, imo, because, unlike Tony, Matthews can actually SHOOT, lol .

[Beat LA]

I'll never understand why the owners who fit the bill of a payroll close to $70-80 million, or whatever the exact figure is/was, complain about a 'luxury tax.'  Really, guys?  How much money do you make, again?  I'm not saying that the Celtics should become the Yankees in terms of payroll, but trying to 'do it on the cheap' never works.

To be fair to Wyc and co., they weren't doing it on the cheap.  During the Big three era they were usually top three in payroll, and were paying the luxury tax limits.  But even multi-millioniares like Wyc have limits.  The C's owners aren't Paul Allen.  Obviously they aren't gonna be pick up night jobs at Car's Jr to make ends meet, but they can't throw millions away to luxury tax and not feel the pinch in some way.
 

I think you might be forgetting just how versatile Posey was, defensively.  He could guard positions 2-4, especially when the power forward of your opponent is Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison, or Lamar Odom, and there was no one else with that type of ability that we could have gotten, because the only other guy with similar attributes was Tayshaun Prince, and we had nothing to offer the Pistons.  Posey was our glue guy, a leader in the clubhouse and on the floor, a big game player, and hit so many big shots for us throughout the playoffs.  Go back and look at the clip of our record 24 point comeback in game 4 against the Lakers - he's the guy who hit those crucial threes.  I just thought, and still feel, that it was an epic blunder by Ainge to let him walk.  So you overpay for one extra year - who cares?  Something might have turned up, like David West being available for a sign-and-trade, and Posey's contract would have been a match, but even if it didn't, it's only one more year, anyway.

Trust me, I remember Posey well.  He was a very good role player.  But that's all he was, a role player.  And Danny rightly knew that he was spent, and didn't match the Hornets offer.  Dude signed a four year deal.  He was good for one, awful for two years, and was so bad on the fourth year the Pacers paid him to stay home. That's a bad investment.

I know that he was a role player, but he was a great one for us, and we never found an adequate replacement for him, imo, until we signed Pietrus.  Also, Posey played very well in 2008-09, and it wasn't his fault that NO pretty much imploded due to CP3's injury.  Remember, when he signed there, the then-Hornets were seen as an up-and-coming team/future power in the west, especially after they had taken the then-champion Spurs to seven games, only to lose at home in that final contest, in another classic choke job by Chris Paul, lol.  2-5 at the line in a game 7?  Come on, man, that's turrible .