Author Topic: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)  (Read 187363 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #120 on: September 12, 2013, 04:52:30 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 47136
  • Tommy Points: 2401
But I'm not all that high on Ty Lawson/Horford.

Really? A lot of people around here seem to realize that both Lawson and Horford are both very underrated players at their positions. Maybe you want to read my blurbs on them in the presser?

And to address the general KG conversation: during all of these playoff runs (or at least since Perk left) KG was the only above-average defensive big man on the Celtics. Now he's playing alongside Horford (very good defensively) and Landry (above-average defensively). That will relieve him of some pressure and allow him to play better on both ends of the floor.

Carl Landry isn't above average defensively. Mediocre defender.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #121 on: September 12, 2013, 04:55:34 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3234
  • Tommy Points: 460
I'm glad to see that people are nitpicking with my team. I really am. If they didn't consider us to have a shot against the Wolves they wouldn't be doing it.

But I'd remind people that there is another team to be critiqued here. A team that, outside of LeBron, is fairly weak in my opinion.

Try not to view the Cavs as the guy who's not good enough to date your daughter (beat a LeBron team). Try to view them impartially and evaluate whether the match (the right pieces in the right places to beat said LeBron team) is there.

I don't even know if that metaphor makes sense, but the sentiment is there, in my head at least.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #122 on: September 12, 2013, 04:58:16 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3234
  • Tommy Points: 460
Carl Landry isn't above average defensively. Mediocre defender.

He had 1.9 DWS in just 23 minutes per game last year, and that was on a team that gave up over 100 ppg. He's strong and he's quick. I'll have to disagree with you there.

On the defensive end, Landry is also surprisingly effective. In situations where he was the primary defender, Landry allowed an average of .79 points per play last year—a figure that ranks him in the top 20 percent of NBA players.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #123 on: September 12, 2013, 04:59:27 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2586
  • Tommy Points: 343
But I'm not all that high on Ty Lawson/Horford.

And to address the general KG conversation: during all of these playoff runs (or at least since Perk left) KG was the only above-average defensive big man on the Celtics. Now he's playing alongside Horford (very good defensively) and Landry (above-average defensively). That will relieve him of some pressure and allow him to play better on both ends of the floor.

I can't let you sneak that one by... this is not obvious or generally accepted and I doubt it's true. Even in his best year defensively, which was last year, opposing 4's had a 15 PER against him and centers murdered him. The Warriors were only sliiiightly better on defense with him on the floor, which is even fainter praise considering that he was usually subbing in for a man that many consider the worst defensive PF in basketball.


by the way... I also googled "Carl Landry defense" and that bleacher report quote was the only nice thing I could find that anybody said about him!

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #124 on: September 12, 2013, 05:03:02 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3234
  • Tommy Points: 460
I can't let you sneak that one by... this is not obvious or generally accepted and I doubt it's true. Even in his best year defensively, which was last year, opposing 4's had a 15 PER against him and centers murdered him. The Warriors were only sliiiightly better on defense with him on the floor, which is even fainter praise considering that he was usually subbing in for a man that many consider the worst defensive PF in basketball.

WOAH... where did that come from? Who are these "many" you're referring to? You might want to take a look at my above post. And if Nick is around he'll back me up that Landry plays solid defense.

KG and Horford in the front court is ridiculous.
And something that has very seldom been brought up is Carl Landry is the first big off the bench. If he gives this Cleveland team what he gave GSW last year in real life(11 PPG, 6 RPG, 60% TS% and good defense) that is a fantastic front court no matter what two guys are out there.

And Landry won't be playing any center.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #125 on: September 12, 2013, 05:06:45 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2586
  • Tommy Points: 343

I'm sorry to nitpick, AB. I agree with most of what you say here. I think we're arguing because Minnesota is such a known quantity while it seems like things could play out in a lot of ways for your team. I like the metaphor, because the guy who's good enough to date my daughter and the guy who puts together a team that will beat Lebron are two people I would very much like to meet.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #126 on: September 12, 2013, 05:07:04 PM »

Offline Fafnir

  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30859
  • Tommy Points: 1327
Yeah Landry isn't a good defender.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #127 on: September 12, 2013, 05:07:57 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3234
  • Tommy Points: 460

I'm sorry to nitpick, AB. I agree with most of what you say here. I think we're arguing because Minnesota is such a known quantity while it seems like things could play out in a lot of ways for your team. I like the metaphor, because the guy who's good enough to date my daughter and the guy who puts together a team that will beat Lebron are two people I would very much like to meet.

Like I said, bring on the nitpicking. I want everyone's questions answered and then for them to make an informed decision.

And as for the latter guy, I think that can be me ;D

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #128 on: September 12, 2013, 05:08:41 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2586
  • Tommy Points: 343
I can't let you sneak that one by... this is not obvious or generally accepted and I doubt it's true. Even in his best year defensively, which was last year, opposing 4's had a 15 PER against him and centers murdered him. The Warriors were only sliiiightly better on defense with him on the floor, which is even fainter praise considering that he was usually subbing in for a man that many consider the worst defensive PF in basketball.

WOAH... where did that come from? Who are these "many" you're referring to? You might want to take a look at my above post. And if Nick is around he'll back me up that Landry plays solid defense.

You don't realize that many people consider David Lee to be the worst defensive PF in basketball?

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #129 on: September 12, 2013, 05:09:37 PM »

Offline sofutomygaha

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2586
  • Tommy Points: 343

I'm sorry to nitpick, AB. I agree with most of what you say here. I think we're arguing because Minnesota is such a known quantity while it seems like things could play out in a lot of ways for your team. I like the metaphor, because the guy who's good enough to date my daughter and the guy who puts together a team that will beat Lebron are two people I would very much like to meet.

Like I said, bring on the nitpicking. I want everyone's questions answered and then for them to make an informed decision.

And as for the latter guy, I think that can be me ;D

Good, because my daughter is OFF THE TABLE =P

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #130 on: September 12, 2013, 05:09:47 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3234
  • Tommy Points: 460
I can't let you sneak that one by... this is not obvious or generally accepted and I doubt it's true. Even in his best year defensively, which was last year, opposing 4's had a 15 PER against him and centers murdered him. The Warriors were only sliiiightly better on defense with him on the floor, which is even fainter praise considering that he was usually subbing in for a man that many consider the worst defensive PF in basketball.

WOAH... where did that come from? Who are these "many" you're referring to? You might want to take a look at my above post. And if Nick is around he'll back me up that Landry plays solid defense.

You don't realize that many people consider David Lee to be the worst defensive PF in basketball?

Oh, I read that wrong. I thought the bolded part was referring to Landry.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #131 on: September 12, 2013, 05:11:11 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
I consider Landry to be slightly below average defender.  He can hold his own in certain matchups, others not so much.  His 15 PER against, while average, is mostly against bench players (1.9 DWS isn't all that special for a PF either).  I suspect he'd fare far worse if facing starters for long periods of time.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #132 on: September 12, 2013, 05:12:58 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3234
  • Tommy Points: 460
Yeah Landry isn't a good defender.

Wanna go into more detail there? Maybe tell me why you aren't high on Lawson and Horford too? Why Horford can't anchor the defense for the few minutes KG is out? Why Wallace can't take advantage of Bradley/Monta when he (statistically) did with Nate Rob?

I appreciate everyone's opinion, but I'd like to see some actual backing up of opinions.

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #133 on: September 12, 2013, 05:14:22 PM »

Offline dark_lord

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8808
  • Tommy Points: 1126
simple question for the cavs......who do you think are your scorers for this series? 

(am going to look through the thread to see if this has been answered)

Re: 2013 CB Draft Finals: Minnesota(1) vs Cleveland(3)
« Reply #134 on: September 12, 2013, 05:15:55 PM »

Offline AB_Celtic

  • DKC Commish
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3234
  • Tommy Points: 460
simple question for the cavs......who do you think are your scorers for this series? 

(am going to look through the thread to see if this has been answered)

Same scorers as always... Lawson, Crawford, and Horford leading the way with Landry, Garnett, Butler, and maybe even Wallace chipping in around 10 apiece. If Lawson gets covered by LeBron, then the others will have opportunities to step up (especially Wallace and Butler if they're covered by a small guard like Bradley or Monta).