Author Topic: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion  (Read 5639 times)

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Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« on: June 16, 2019, 09:51:42 PM »

Offline Silky

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First and formost.

3 year 60+ mill for Al.

Starting salary at 20 mill.


Then trade pick 20 to Nyk for Frank N.

This gives the celtics just a little north of 22 million in capspace after renouncing everyone they can and signing picks

As outlined here.
https://www.bulletsforever.com/2019/2/12/18222800/thomas-bryant-washington-wizards-starter-criteria


Washington cannot match an offer for bryant at over 9.1 million.

So offer him 9.5 million.

Then offer Rubio 9.5 million.

That leaves a couple of million under cap to sign a cheap vet depth player.

Draft
Johnson-14
Samanic-22
lecque-51

2019 roster

Rubio/frank/lecque
Brown/smart/johnson
Tatum/hayward/leftover capspace
Horford/samanic/room mle
Bryant/baynes/williams



Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2019, 10:59:48 PM »

Offline cltc5

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Julius randle is available

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2019, 11:16:36 PM »

Offline CptZoogs

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Julius randle is available

I was thinking about him today.  Wonder what his market will be...15-18 per year?  He declined his option for 9 mill. 

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2019, 11:21:29 PM »

Offline blink

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Julius randle is available

I was thinking about him today.  Wonder what his market will be...15-18 per year?  He declined his option for 9 mill.

Randle wouldn't be bad if Morris doesn't come back.  Esp if it is for a bit less than the 15-18 per year you mentioned.

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2019, 11:30:57 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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Available FA (realistic targets):

Centers:

Deandre Jordan (UFA)
Demarcus Cousins (UFA)
Dewayne Dedmon (UFA)
Hassan Whiteside (UFA)
Robin Lopez (UFA)
Willie Cauley Stein (RFA)
Andrew Bogut (UFA)
Kevon Looney (RFA)


Power Forwards:

Julius Randle (UFA)
Ed Davis (UFA)
Taj Gibson (UFA)
Kenneth Farried (UFA)
Bobby Portiz (RFA)
Chiek Diallo (RFA)

Point Guards:

Rajon Rondo (UFA)
Ricky Rubio (UFA)
D'Angelo Russell (RFA)
Patrick Beverly (UFA)


Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2019, 11:33:48 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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There are deals that can be made here...

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2019, 11:42:08 PM »

Offline blink

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There are deals that can be made here...

Well don't keep them all to yourself, lets hear them! :)

I used to think Randle was a complete bust, but the last couple of years every time I watched him I came away impressed.  He has a motor, kind of like Smart where he just gets after it.  I think the Celtic fans would appreciate him after watching him in green.

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2019, 11:46:19 PM »

Offline Yoki_IsTheName

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Cap gurus.

If Kyrie Irving leaves, how are we going to be under the luxury tax line? Is there a realistic scenario that we can get the full MLE?
2019 CStrong Historical Draft 2000s OKC Thunder.
PG: Jrue Holiday / Isaiah Thomas / Larry Hughes
SG: Paul George / Aaron McKie / Bradley Beal
SF: Paul Pierce / Tayshaun Prince / Brian Scalabrine
PF: LaMarcus Aldridge / Shareef Abdur-Raheem / Ben Simmons
C: Jermaine O'neal / Ben Wallace

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2019, 12:05:00 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Horford $20 mil
Hayward $32.7 mil
Smart $12.5 mil
Tatum $7.8 mil
Brown $6.5 mil
Yabu $3.1 mil
Baynes $5.4 mil
Semi $1.6 mil
William's $1.9 mil.
14 pick $2.9 mil cap hold
20 pick $2.1 mil cap hold
22 pick $2 mil cap hold

That is the Celtics as currently stands with Horford negotiations and subsequent drop to $20 million. Where exactly is all this cap space you speak of? That right there is $98.5 million in salary and cap holds with a $109 million cap. Your trade for Ntilikina adds $2.7 million more salary  leaving a total of less than $7 million in cap space, not $22 million.

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2019, 12:08:30 AM »

Offline jambr380

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Cap gurus.

If Kyrie Irving leaves, how are we going to be under the luxury tax line? Is there a realistic scenario that we can get the full MLE?

I don’t know how we don’t get under the tax line. We are just barely over as it is (around $3M). If Kyrie leaves and Al restructures his contract, we could still conceivably sign Terry and/or Morris at reasonable deals and still be able to offer the full MLE. I guess picks and cap holds would eat into that a little bit so probably just one of Rozier/Morris, but it really shouldn’t very difficult - we would be shedding over $30M in salary with the cap going up a few million.

I’d honestly be more worried about falling below the salary cap and only being able to offer the Room exception - which is like half the full MLE.

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2019, 12:18:27 AM »

Offline GreenCoffeeBean

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It’s time to get over AD. We’re all about to see how overrated he is.

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2019, 05:55:54 AM »

Offline Silky

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Horford $20 mil
Hayward $32.7 mil
Smart $12.5 mil
Tatum $7.8 mil
Brown $6.5 mil
Yabu $3.1 mil
Baynes $5.4 mil
Semi $1.6 mil
William's $1.9 mil.
14 pick $2.9 mil cap hold
20 pick $2.1 mil cap hold
22 pick $2 mil cap hold

That is the Celtics as currently stands with Horford negotiations and subsequent drop to $20 million. Where exactly is all this cap space you speak of? That right there is $98.5 million in salary and cap holds with a $109 million cap. Your trade for Ntilikina adds $2.7 million more salary  leaving a total of less than $7 million in cap space, not $22 million.

Interesting, Basketbll insiders lists the team as having 64.7 mill in guaranteed.
Add 20 for Horford and the 5.5 for Baynes and that is 90.2 mill. so 20 million, less a couple capholds and Frank and you are still at over 17 million available.

Not sure where the difference lies here. (outside of you counting Semi deal, which is not guaranteed)

There is still enough for offering Bryant 9.5 and the rest to Rubio. Might be less chance to nab Rubio though, but the rest of the idea still works. (could aslo look to trade Yabusele and a second for capspace, or just waive him/buy him out to gain an additional 3.7 million)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 06:01:41 AM by Silky »

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2019, 08:06:31 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Horford $20 mil
Hayward $32.7 mil
Smart $12.5 mil
Tatum $7.8 mil
Brown $6.5 mil
Yabu $3.1 mil
Baynes $5.4 mil
Semi $1.6 mil
William's $1.9 mil.
14 pick $2.9 mil cap hold
20 pick $2.1 mil cap hold
22 pick $2 mil cap hold

That is the Celtics as currently stands with Horford negotiations and subsequent drop to $20 million. Where exactly is all this cap space you speak of? That right there is $98.5 million in salary and cap holds with a $109 million cap. Your trade for Ntilikina adds $2.7 million more salary  leaving a total of less than $7 million in cap space, not $22 million.

Interesting, Basketbll insiders lists the team as having 64.7 mill in guaranteed.
Add 20 for Horford and the 5.5 for Baynes and that is 90.2 mill. so 20 million, less a couple capholds and Frank and you are still at over 17 million available.

Not sure where the difference lies here. (outside of you counting Semi deal, which is not guaranteed)

There is still enough for offering Bryant 9.5 and the rest to Rubio. Might be less chance to nab Rubio though, but the rest of the idea still works. (could aslo look to trade Yabusele and a second for capspace, or just waive him/buy him out to gain an additional 3.7 million)
It's the cap holds for the picks. You are trading one for Frank which adds a slight bit of salary too. It's another $5.5m of the cap space you were opening up. You could draft and stash #14 or #22 to open up more cap space but given the talent on offer there you may want to take a player there.

I think Rubio will go for about $15m, you could open up the cap space like you say and pay just him?

Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2019, 08:39:56 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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Horford $20 mil
Hayward $32.7 mil
Smart $12.5 mil
Tatum $7.8 mil
Brown $6.5 mil
Yabu $3.1 mil
Baynes $5.4 mil
Semi $1.6 mil
William's $1.9 mil.
14 pick $2.9 mil cap hold
20 pick $2.1 mil cap hold
22 pick $2 mil cap hold

That is the Celtics as currently stands with Horford negotiations and subsequent drop to $20 million. Where exactly is all this cap space you speak of? That right there is $98.5 million in salary and cap holds with a $109 million cap. Your trade for Ntilikina adds $2.7 million more salary  leaving a total of less than $7 million in cap space, not $22 million.

Interesting, Basketbll insiders lists the team as having 64.7 mill in guaranteed.
Add 20 for Horford and the 5.5 for Baynes and that is 90.2 mill. so 20 million, less a couple capholds and Frank and you are still at over 17 million available.

Not sure where the difference lies here. (outside of you counting Semi deal, which is not guaranteed)

There is still enough for offering Bryant 9.5 and the rest to Rubio. Might be less chance to nab Rubio though, but the rest of the idea still works. (could aslo look to trade Yabusele and a second for capspace, or just waive him/buy him out to gain an additional 3.7 million)
Your problem is Basketball Insiders are wrong. Steve Kyler's site, though stating they are Basketball Insiders, aren't basketball insiders. There is nothing wrong with my numbers. There they are before you.

If you don't believe my numbers do a bit of math and rework the salary figure currently on a real reputable site, basketball_reference.com. $98.5 - cap holds($7 million)+ the $10 million discounted for Horford+ Kyrie's number($21 million). Guess what? That comes out to the ~$123 million that basketball_reference.com lists as their Celtic salary figure.


Re: Another offseason offer? Ideas for discussion
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2019, 09:10:22 AM »

Offline Silky

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Horford $20 mil
Hayward $32.7 mil
Smart $12.5 mil
Tatum $7.8 mil
Brown $6.5 mil
Yabu $3.1 mil
Baynes $5.4 mil
Semi $1.6 mil
William's $1.9 mil.
14 pick $2.9 mil cap hold
20 pick $2.1 mil cap hold
22 pick $2 mil cap hold

That is the Celtics as currently stands with Horford negotiations and subsequent drop to $20 million. Where exactly is all this cap space you speak of? That right there is $98.5 million in salary and cap holds with a $109 million cap. Your trade for Ntilikina adds $2.7 million more salary  leaving a total of less than $7 million in cap space, not $22 million.

Interesting, Basketbll insiders lists the team as having 64.7 mill in guaranteed.
Add 20 for Horford and the 5.5 for Baynes and that is 90.2 mill. so 20 million, less a couple capholds and Frank and you are still at over 17 million available.

Not sure where the difference lies here. (outside of you counting Semi deal, which is not guaranteed)

There is still enough for offering Bryant 9.5 and the rest to Rubio. Might be less chance to nab Rubio though, but the rest of the idea still works. (could aslo look to trade Yabusele and a second for capspace, or just waive him/buy him out to gain an additional 3.7 million)
It's the cap holds for the picks. You are trading one for Frank which adds a slight bit of salary too. It's another $5.5m of the cap space you were opening up. You could draft and stash #14 or #22 to open up more cap space but given the talent on offer there you may want to take a player there.

I think Rubio will go for about $15m, you could open up the cap space like you say and pay just him?

OK, so I actually ran the numbers into a spreadsheet as opposed to doing roundings and adding in my head.

Name   2019-20
Gordon Hayward   $32,700,690
Al Horford                   $20,000,000
Marcus Smart           $12,553,571
Jayson Tatum           $7,830,000
Aron Baynes           $5,453,280
Jaylen Brown           $6,534,829
Guerschon Yabusele   $3,117,240
Robert Williams           $1,937,520
Demetrius Jackson (stretched)   $92,857
Pick 14                   $2,878,400
Pick 20                   $2,149,000
Pick 22                   $1,980,700
Guaranteed Total:   $97,228,087
Inclusive Total:           $132,916,100
Capspace est:            $11,771,913


I was tossing the idea about holding onto Roziers Caphold so that team could work out getting the full MLE, but it would involve moving pick and or Yabusele to do it.

So this is what I got as a revision.
Al starting salary 20 mill, over 60 mill 3 year deal.

Pick 22 and Yabusele to Dallas for Jaylen Brunson and pick 37
This is 5,097,940 outgoing and only 1,230,000 coming back for a savings of $3,867,940 bringing the total available capspace to $15,639,853.

That allows team to keep rozier caphold of $4,285,798 and still offer an unmatchable contract to Thomas Bryant of around 10-12 mill starting and then resign Rozier.

Unless I am mistaken, that little work around would allow team to then have FULL MLE (9.7 million) to go after ma bench PF (morris, Young, aminu, Portis, Gibson, Green) and then sign the 2 second round picks (which do not count against cap in regards to capholds)

Now I am no fan of Rozier, but I am a fan of Full MLE and a huge fan of Bryant.
so

Rozier/Brunson/Lecque-51
Brown/Smart/Herro-14
Tatum/Hayward/Johnson-20
Horford/Morris/Samanic - 37
Bryant/Baynes/Williams

Top 5 are all young with Horford to be the vet leader on the court with them.

Second 5 have a good balance of defense and offense and alot of switchability

third 5 are all youth who will spend time in the Gleague and be there to train and eventually move up to the second 5.

Edit
Scratch the rozier part. I listed his QO as his caphold. Rozier screws it all up again. His caphold would reduce space to undet 7 mill. Not good enough for Bryant

So to keep rozier and get bryant would jeed to shed another ~5 mill in salary. (Pick 14 and pick 20), or baynes for no returning salary.

Not impossible as I am sure someone would take on Baynes for a year at the cost of a future first.





« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 10:09:41 AM by Silky »