interesting what espn just said about KG

[Brickowski]

What goes through my mind when I read that Danny knows it is some spur on the knee causing the pain because of it rubbing against the tendon is when did this information get to the Celtics? If they knew straight from the beginning that was the problem and had the options of surgery right away or trying to see if rest and therapy worked, then I wonder if they made the wrong decision.

KG has been down since February 19th. That's eight weeks. Is it unheard of for an arthroscopic exam to have been done to reduce or eliminate the spur and have had KG back pain free for the playoffs? I don't know. Maybe those types of operations require large scale surgery and would have automaticallt put him out for the season. But I hope they don't wait to long to do surgery if that is what is needed. No sense losing part of next year as well.

Two things:

1. the surgery itself is relatively minor, so if it was done 2 months ago KG could have been back.

2. Assuming the initial examination detected that spur, KG himself still would have to approve of surgery over rest/rehab regimen.

Its not solely up to the team to make the call for surgery and considering KG has never gone under the knife, I wouldn't be suprised if he was reluctant to take that course of action over rest/rehab.

In the end, I think he'll make it through the playoffs on a regiment of minutes designed to give him optimal recovery time - I expect 20-25 mpg with situational usage paramount for opening 1st/2nd half, closing 4th, and stopping opponents runs...it can be done...

Yes, that's how they should handle it.  And if it really is just a spur, it should be removed in the offseason asap. No big deal.

[crownsy]

What goes through my mind when I read that Danny knows it is some spur on the knee causing the pain because of it rubbing against the tendon is when did this information get to the Celtics? If they knew straight from the beginning that was the problem and had the options of surgery right away or trying to see if rest and therapy worked, then I wonder if they made the wrong decision.

KG has been down since February 19th. That's eight weeks. Is it unheard of for an arthroscopic exam to have been done to reduce or eliminate the spur and have had KG back pain free for the playoffs? I don't know. Maybe those types of operations require large scale surgery and would have automaticallt put him out for the season. But I hope they don't wait to long to do surgery if that is what is needed. No sense losing part of next year as well.

Two things:

1. the surgery itself is relatively minor, so if it was done 2 months ago KG could have been back.

2. Assuming the initial examination detected that spur, KG himself still would have to approve of surgery over rest/rehab regimen.

Its not solely up to the team to make the call for surgery and considering KG has never gone under the knife, I wouldn't be suprised if he was reluctant to take that course of action over rest/rehab.

In the end, I think he'll make it through the playoffs on a regiment of minutes designed to give him optimal recovery time - I expect 20-25 mpg with situational usage paramount for opening 1st/2nd half, closing 4th, and stopping opponents runs...it can be done...

one would assume that KG knows that bone spurs don't "heal" however. your not going to rest enough that an excess growth of calcium suddenly decides to break up.

I think a initial miss diagnosis of a sprain followed by catching the spur (which is probably minor in size) on a more in depth examination 2-4 weeks later when the sprain wasn't healing as quickly as they normally do is more in line with keeping with your well thought out reasoning here.

[OhioGreen]

The problem with an induced tendonitis like KG's is that just like before after he plays short minutes in a handful of games, he'll be right back where he was painwise and not be able to go again! If he goes a couple of games "real hard" he'll probably be done.  So, question becomes, can we get thru Rd 1 & 2 without him, and then beat the Cav's with him babying himself along?----Of course then you'll probably have to beat LA without him!
In any event it's been a great year that is unfortunately trying to end on any ugly note. It's a shame, cause I think we definitely repeat with our guys healthy, dut to the improvement of Rondo, BBD, Perk and Powe! Stranger things have happened with a little luck!!
The other "good" thing is KG should be completely ready to go next season after surg!!

[housecall]

One of  the owners(WYC Grousbeck) of the Boston Celtics told M.Holley on Celtics Now a few minutes ago KG will be ready to go on Sat for the playoffs.

[Cs09Champs]

One of  the owners(WYC Grousbeck) of the Boston Celtics told M.Holley on Celtics Now a few minutes ago KG will be ready to go on Sat for the playoffs.

I heard that too! Can't wait!

[cordobes]

What goes through my mind when I read that Danny knows it is some spur on the knee causing the pain because of it rubbing against the tendon is when did this information get to the Celtics? If they knew straight from the beginning that was the problem and had the options of surgery right away or trying to see if rest and therapy worked, then I wonder if they made the wrong decision.

KG has been down since February 19th. That's eight weeks. Is it unheard of for an arthroscopic exam to have been done to reduce or eliminate the spur and have had KG back pain free for the playoffs? I don't know. Maybe those types of operations require large scale surgery and would have automaticallt put him out for the season. But I hope they don't wait to long to do surgery if that is what is needed. No sense losing part of next year as well.

Two things:

1. the surgery itself is relatively minor, so if it was done 2 months ago KG could have been back.

2. Assuming the initial examination detected that spur, KG himself still would have to approve of surgery over rest/rehab regimen.

Its not solely up to the team to make the call for surgery and considering KG has never gone under the knife, I wouldn't be suprised if he was reluctant to take that course of action over rest/rehab.

In the end, I think he'll make it through the playoffs on a regiment of minutes designed to give him optimal recovery time - I expect 20-25 mpg with situational usage paramount for opening 1st/2nd half, closing 4th, and stopping opponents runs...it can be done...

Yes, that's how they should handle it.  And if it really is just a spur, it should be removed in the offseason asap. No big deal.

How do you know? "Just a spur"? It can be of no-importance or a very big deal.

[crownsy]

The problem with an induced tendonitis like KG's is that just like before after he plays short minutes in a handful of games, he'll be right back where he was painwise and not be able to go again! If he goes a couple of games "real hard" he'll probably be done.  So, question becomes, can we get thru Rd 1 & 2 without him, and then beat the Cav's with him babying himself along?----Of course then you'll probably have to beat LA without him!
In any event it's been a great year that is unfortunately trying to end on any ugly note. It's a shame, cause I think we definitely repeat with our guys healthy, dut to the improvement of Rondo, BBD, Perk and Powe! Stranger things have happened with a little luck!!
The other "good" thing is KG should be completely ready to go next season after surg!!

im pprobley alone on this, but if we can somehow get past the cavs without him, LA wouldn't be awe inspiring to me.

IMO Cleveland is better than LA this year, though its close.

[Eeyore III]

The whole evolution of this is like Bird's ankle bone spur in the spring of '87.  The poster who said "bone spurs don't heal" is right. They gotta be removed, but healing is usually 100%.  Bird, however, also had emerging back issues.  It's age.

The question of how much pain KG can endure is the $64 question.  I say: not much.  He's like an intricately calibrated Maserati: a small flaw can shut him down.

[cordobes]

What goes through my mind when I read that Danny knows it is some spur on the knee causing the pain because of it rubbing against the tendon is when did this information get to the Celtics? If they knew straight from the beginning that was the problem and had the options of surgery right away or trying to see if rest and therapy worked, then I wonder if they made the wrong decision.

KG has been down since February 19th. That's eight weeks. Is it unheard of for an arthroscopic exam to have been done to reduce or eliminate the spur and have had KG back pain free for the playoffs? I don't know. Maybe those types of operations require large scale surgery and would have automaticallt put him out for the season. But I hope they don't wait to long to do surgery if that is what is needed. No sense losing part of next year as well.

Two things:

1. the surgery itself is relatively minor, so if it was done 2 months ago KG could have been back.

2. Assuming the initial examination detected that spur, KG himself still would have to approve of surgery over rest/rehab regimen.

Its not solely up to the team to make the call for surgery and considering KG has never gone under the knife, I wouldn't be suprised if he was reluctant to take that course of action over rest/rehab.

Wrong. It's truly amazing how much you've written about this issue and how consistently wrong you have been in almost everything - from mentioning a PCL tear, to confusing a sprain and a strain, to guarantee it was nonsensical to speculate that KG's injury was more serious the team was telling publicly, etc.

Now you leave out the more obvious reason to not make the surgery: the danger of weakening the tendon. If the bone spur implies a calcification of the tendon, a surgery may result in the premature end of KG's career. For example, assuming the tendinitis is in the patellar tendon (jumper's knee), then it'd mean the injury would be treated the same way McDyess' injury (a rupture of the tendon) was. And the outcome on McDyess' case, although he lost a big deal of athleticism, was an absolute best case scenario.

The priority is ALWAYS to deal with these issues - bone spurs affecting knee tendons - in a conservative way: rest, massages, etc. Surgery is generally a last resort.

[crownsy]

The whole evolution of this is like Bird's ankle bone spur in the spring of '87.  The poster who said "bone spurs don't heal" is right. They gotta be removed, but healing is usually 100%.  Bird, however, also had emerging back issues.  It's age.

The question of how much pain KG can endure is the $64 question.  I say: not much.  He's like an intricately calibrated Maserati: a small flaw can shut him down.

 bone spurs have little to do with age. I had a friend who had a bone spur when he was 13 and again when he was 20. they are calcium deposits, which means it is more likely that you get them later in life, as your bones have had more time to produce calcium, but much like kidney stones (which i had the misfortune of getting when i was 21) the belief that they are something that only happens as a sign of age is blatantly false.

  and the bone spur had zero to do with birds decline, his back was 100% what did him in. It was amazing he played as long as he did with such chronic back issues. ITs what makes me worry about perk long term with that trick shoulder.

as to the "how much pain can he endure: not much" i can't take you seriously after that statement. just because players don't go on the DL doesn't mean they aren't playing with pain. 2002 in particular, KG was reported to have a laundry list of nagging injuries that he played through for the T-wolves. He's a warrior, if he can play he will.

[cordobes]

I was always pretty confident KG would be able to play in the playoffs and still am.

[Eeyore III]

The whole evolution of this is like Bird's ankle bone spur in the spring of '87.  The poster who said "bone spurs don't heal" is right. They gotta be removed, but healing is usually 100%.  Bird, however, also had emerging back issues.  It's age.

The question of how much pain KG can endure is the $64 question.  I say: not much.  He's like an intricately calibrated Maserati: a small flaw can shut him down.

 bone spurs have little to do with age. I had a friend who had a bone spur when he was 13 and again when he was 20. they are calcium deposits, which means it is more likely that you get them later in life, as your bones have had more time to produce calcium, but much like kidney stones (which i had the misfortune of getting when i was 21) the belief that they are something that only happens as a sign of age is blatantly false.

  and the bone spur had zero to do with birds decline, his back was 100% what did him in. It was amazing he played as long as he did with such chronic back issues. ITs what makes me worry about perk long term with that trick shoulder.

as to the "how much pain can he endure: not much" i can't take you seriously after that statement. just because players don't go on the DL doesn't mean they aren't playing with pain. 2002 in particular, KG was reported to have a laundry list of nagging injuries that he played through for the T-wolves. He's a warrior, if he can play he will.

Right, bone spurs are from repeat trauma, but they often become symptomatic with age, as you admit.  Minor quibble.

In May-July 1987, the media reports--which is all we have re KG today--were 100% "bone spur."  While the probable medical cause of Bird's retirement was ultimately his back, years later, the 1987 bone-spur issue was a definite prelude.  As one gets older, stuff goes wrong.

I didn't imply anythong negative about KG.  A bone spur is not a "nagging injury," as you say.  I think Kg is very body-aware, and that this is going to slow him down until the off-season surgery.  We'll see who's right. 

[CoachBo]

What goes through my mind when I read that Danny knows it is some spur on the knee causing the pain because of it rubbing against the tendon is when did this information get to the Celtics? If they knew straight from the beginning that was the problem and had the options of surgery right away or trying to see if rest and therapy worked, then I wonder if they made the wrong decision.

KG has been down since February 19th. That's eight weeks. Is it unheard of for an arthroscopic exam to have been done to reduce or eliminate the spur and have had KG back pain free for the playoffs? I don't know. Maybe those types of operations require large scale surgery and would have automaticallt put him out for the season. But I hope they don't wait to long to do surgery if that is what is needed. No sense losing part of next year as well.

Two things:

1. the surgery itself is relatively minor, so if it was done 2 months ago KG could have been back.

2. Assuming the initial examination detected that spur, KG himself still would have to approve of surgery over rest/rehab regimen.

Its not solely up to the team to make the call for surgery and considering KG has never gone under the knife, I wouldn't be suprised if he was reluctant to take that course of action over rest/rehab.

Wrong. It's truly amazing how much you've written about this issue and how consistently wrong you have been in almost everything - from mentioning a PCL tear, to confusing a sprain and a strain, to guarantee it was nonsensical to speculate that KG's injury was more serious the team was telling publicly, etc.

Now you leave out the more obvious reason to not make the surgery: the danger of weakening the tendon. If the bone spur implies a calcification of the tendon, a surgery may result in the premature end of KG's career. For example, assuming the tendinitis is in the patellar tendon (jumper's knee), then it'd mean the injury would be treated the same way McDyess' injury (a rupture of the tendon) was. And the outcome on McDyess' case, although he lost a big deal of athleticism, was an absolute best case scenario.

The priority is ALWAYS to deal with these issues - bone spurs affecting knee tendons - in a conservative way: rest, massages, etc. Surgery is generally a last resort.

TP, Cordobes, for a very accurate assessment of this situation.

Since Garnett's knee has morphed into Who Shot JFK? on this board, I decided to take this up with my athletic training consultant, since I've never confronted this injury on the bench.

There is NO accurate way to generalize the nature of Garnett's injury without specifics on the location and nature of the spur. This could be minor; it could be career-threatening depending on how it's handled.

And as pointed out above by Cordobes, surgery is absolutely the last option in this type of injury, according to my consultant.

[crownsy]

The whole evolution of this is like Bird's ankle bone spur in the spring of '87.  The poster who said "bone spurs don't heal" is right. They gotta be removed, but healing is usually 100%.  Bird, however, also had emerging back issues.  It's age.

The question of how much pain KG can endure is the $64 question.  I say: not much.  He's like an intricately calibrated Maserati: a small flaw can shut him down.

 bone spurs have little to do with age. I had a friend who had a bone spur when he was 13 and again when he was 20. they are calcium deposits, which means it is more likely that you get them later in life, as your bones have had more time to produce calcium, but much like kidney stones (which i had the misfortune of getting when i was 21) the belief that they are something that only happens as a sign of age is blatantly false.

  and the bone spur had zero to do with birds decline, his back was 100% what did him in. It was amazing he played as long as he did with such chronic back issues. ITs what makes me worry about perk long term with that trick shoulder.

as to the "how much pain can he endure: not much" i can't take you seriously after that statement. just because players don't go on the DL doesn't mean they aren't playing with pain. 2002 in particular, KG was reported to have a laundry list of nagging injuries that he played through for the T-wolves. He's a warrior, if he can play he will.

Right, bone spurs are from repeat trauma, but they often become symptomatic with age, as you admit.  Minor quibble.

In May-July 1987, the media reports--which is all we have re KG today--were 100% "bone spur."  While the probable medical cause of Bird's retirement was ultimately his back, years later, the 1987 bone-spur issue was a definite prelude.  As one gets older, stuff goes wrong.

I didn't imply anythong negative about KG.  A bone spur is not a "nagging injury," as you say.  I think Kg is very body-aware, and that this is going to slow him down until the off-season surgery.  We'll see who's right. 

bone spurs and bone chips are different things. I assure you, my buddy sam was far from an athlete or doing something that involved trama to his elbow.

while it is true repeated trama can contribute to a bone spur, anything can cause a excess build up of calcium.