Author Topic: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea  (Read 4664 times)

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Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« on: December 04, 2020, 06:05:41 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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He fits into the trade exception. We would need to give up Theis and Edwards to stay under the hard cap, but that'd be a relatively small price to pay.

He's out of the rotation in Sacramento and at odds with the organization. They drafted Haliburton as a potential replacement. I've seen some rumors that the main thing the Kings want is draft compensation.

If the Cs sent the trade exception (which would allow the Kings to take on big contracts with draft assets as salary dumps), Theis, and Edwards, with a future unprotected first and Romeo Langford or another 1st, they'd consider it, right?

Adding Hield as a high level scorer that doesn't need the ball a lot to score would surely help Tatum and Brown with their playmaking and would loosen the court for them.

Nesmith projects to be that kind of player, but isn't there yet.

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2020, 06:13:37 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Trading Theis, Romeo and a #1 for a guy who would be angry about being a 4th option seems risky.


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Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2020, 07:23:13 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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We would go into the tax this season, which would be a shame. I do agree that Buddy Hield could become a target.
Of course Walker/Hield is not a viable backcourt defensively. Don't know what were going to do with Kemba.

To start next season with Smart/Hield/Brown/Tatum/R.Williams (+Pritchard/Nesmith/G.Williams/Thompson) looks nice.

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2020, 07:45:32 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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We would go into the tax this season, which would be a shame. I do agree that Buddy Hield could become a target.
Of course Walker/Hield is not a viable backcourt defensively. Don't know what were going to do with Kemba.

To start next season with Smart/Hield/Brown/Tatum/R.Williams (+Pritchard/Nesmith/G.Williams/Thompson) looks nice.

No tax if he's taken into the trade exception. Next season gets a bit hairy, but I'd have to think if we were contenders, we could pay the tax, and if not, we could trade him again and get decent value back.

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2020, 07:46:53 PM »

Offline liam

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I think once Hield starts seeing himself as a Lou Will type of scorer off the bench the better off he’ll be. He is being paid like an NBA starter but he’s a sixth man on a championship squad.

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2020, 08:36:57 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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We would go into the tax this season, which would be a shame. I do agree that Buddy Hield could become a target.
Of course Walker/Hield is not a viable backcourt defensively. Don't know what were going to do with Kemba.

To start next season with Smart/Hield/Brown/Tatum/R.Williams (+Pritchard/Nesmith/G.Williams/Thompson) looks nice.

No tax if he's taken into the trade exception. Next season gets a bit hairy, but I'd have to think if we were contenders, we could pay the tax, and if not, we could trade him again and get decent value back.

But if the Celtics go above $132.6M they'd need to pay luxury tax regardless or am I having that wrong?


Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2020, 08:43:40 PM »

Online Roy H.

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We would go into the tax this season, which would be a shame. I do agree that Buddy Hield could become a target.
Of course Walker/Hield is not a viable backcourt defensively. Don't know what were going to do with Kemba.

To start next season with Smart/Hield/Brown/Tatum/R.Williams (+Pritchard/Nesmith/G.Williams/Thompson) looks nice.

No tax if he's taken into the trade exception. Next season gets a bit hairy, but I'd have to think if we were contenders, we could pay the tax, and if not, we could trade him again and get decent value back.

But if the Celtics go above $132.6M they'd need to pay luxury tax regardless or am I having that wrong?

Correct, if we’re at or above that number by the end of the season.


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Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2020, 08:46:23 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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We would go into the tax this season, which would be a shame. I do agree that Buddy Hield could become a target.
Of course Walker/Hield is not a viable backcourt defensively. Don't know what were going to do with Kemba.

To start next season with Smart/Hield/Brown/Tatum/R.Williams (+Pritchard/Nesmith/G.Williams/Thompson) looks nice.

No tax if he's taken into the trade exception. Next season gets a bit hairy, but I'd have to think if we were contenders, we could pay the tax, and if not, we could trade him again and get decent value back.

But if the Celtics go above $132.6M they'd need to pay luxury tax regardless or am I having that wrong?

Correct, if we’re at or above that number by the end of the season.

I guess I misunderstand a trade exception. My understanding was that it didn't count toward the number for luxury tax purposes.

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2020, 09:17:58 PM »

Online Roy H.

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We would go into the tax this season, which would be a shame. I do agree that Buddy Hield could become a target.
Of course Walker/Hield is not a viable backcourt defensively. Don't know what were going to do with Kemba.

To start next season with Smart/Hield/Brown/Tatum/R.Williams (+Pritchard/Nesmith/G.Williams/Thompson) looks nice.

No tax if he's taken into the trade exception. Next season gets a bit hairy, but I'd have to think if we were contenders, we could pay the tax, and if not, we could trade him again and get decent value back.

But if the Celtics go above $132.6M they'd need to pay luxury tax regardless or am I having that wrong?

Correct, if we’re at or above that number by the end of the season.

I guess I misunderstand a trade exception. My understanding was that it didn't count toward the number for luxury tax purposes.

The exception itself doesn’t.  Once you use it, though, the player salary that comes back counts.

Basically, a TPE counts as a “hold” against cap space (I.e., it counts against a team’s available cap space) even if you don’t utilize it.  It does not function that way for luxury tax.


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Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2020, 03:27:25 AM »

Offline Muzzy66

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Trading Theis, Romeo and a #1 for a guy who would be angry about being a 4th option seems risky.

This is a risk for sure, and I do really like Theis as a player.  That being said he probably is the 5th best player in our starting lineup right now, and certainly is not irreplaceable - I'd put him in a similar category to Jae Crowder when we traded him out for Kyrie.  Good player, but replacable and probably worth the risk if the is a high upside return.

Romeo I don't really care for in the slightest. He spent most of last season injured, and when I have seen him play I've seen very little from him to really excite me.  Way I see it he's entirely unproven at this stage - a 50/50 propect who could go either way.  I have no issues dumping him if it means upgrading our team.

A first round pick I also don't really care that much about in the grand scheme of things.  I doubt the Celtics are drafting a game changing core player with any of their current draft picks, so to me that pick is most valuable as a trade asset - which is what we'd be using it as here.

Hield is a standout shooter and a potential perennial 20 PPG scorer, who also happens to line up very well age-wise with our current young core of Brown/Smart/Tatum.  If things do go south with Kemba's health then Smart potentially becomes our starting PG and Hield could potentially become a #2 or #3 option for us on offence.  With Brown, Tatum and Smart in the starting 5, a top shelf shooter like Hield could be exactly the type of piece that could help stretch the floor and take this team to another level.  He could be to Tatum and Brown what Ray Allen was to Piece/KG. 

It's a risk, but I'd happily take the chance if that's all we need to give up.   

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2020, 04:49:51 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

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I was just reading about Hield to understand what happened to him last year.  Here’s an article that really turns me off to the idea of trading for him.

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2020/1/14/21064923/sacramento-kings-buddy-hield-defense-luke-walton

 For example, “his shooting has regressed from elite to average, his defense has deteriorated from below-average to catastrophic, and his team has actually been more successful with Buddy on the bench rather than in the game”

 and “Buddy’s individual play and attitude are also massive factors in not only his performance, but also his reputation with the fan base. He’s forcing bad shots on a nightly basis, taking more pull-up three-pointers than ever, and hasn’t exactly endeared himself to fans through multiple nasty comments to the media about his teammates and coaches.”

These aren’t the qualities you want from a role playing sixth man.

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2020, 08:13:19 AM »

Offline jambr380

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I was just reading about Hield to understand what happened to him last year.  Here’s an article that really turns me off to the idea of trading for him.

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2020/1/14/21064923/sacramento-kings-buddy-hield-defense-luke-walton

 For example, “his shooting has regressed from elite to average, his defense has deteriorated from below-average to catastrophic, and his team has actually been more successful with Buddy on the bench rather than in the game”

 and “Buddy’s individual play and attitude are also massive factors in not only his performance, but also his reputation with the fan base. He’s forcing bad shots on a nightly basis, taking more pull-up three-pointers than ever, and hasn’t exactly endeared himself to fans throughmultiple nasty comments to the media about his teammates and coaches.”

These aren’t the qualities you want from a role playing sixth man.

If they really have soured on Hield, it makes it even more strange that SAC didn't match Bogdan's offer sheet. Hield is hardly an amazing asset, but they certainly should be able to get plus compensation for him. My guess is that they are going to try to buy into his game, rather than making him compete for minutes (which is why they let Bogdan go), and see if he can be more of a leading guy. The previous season he scored 21ppg on 43% from 3 - that is REALLY good.

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2020, 08:17:20 AM »

Offline Moranis

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39.4% from 3 is average?

As for on/off, when you come off the bench and play with other bench players it is hard to have a positive on/off differential and a point of comparison Hield's on/off per 100 possessions was -2, Fox was -4, Barnes was -1.4, Bagley was -13.2, Giles was -8.5. Is Fox not any good now?  or Bagley?

The simple reality is Luke Walton is a terrible coach.  He has no idea what he is doing and he messed up Sacramento significantly, especially Hield. 
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Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2020, 08:32:02 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I am just not interested in Hield for the Celtics.  For what he likely would be for the Celtics, he is overpaid.


But can it be a three team deal with Hield where the Celtics send the TE and a pick, Hield goes to another team (maybe Orlando) where that team also sends a pick to the Kings and say Gordon to the Celtics.   (not sure what other pieces have to move around)

Re: Revisiting the Buddy Hield Idea
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2020, 08:35:32 AM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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I was just reading about Hield to understand what happened to him last year.  Here’s an article that really turns me off to the idea of trading for him.

https://www.sactownroyalty.com/2020/1/14/21064923/sacramento-kings-buddy-hield-defense-luke-walton

 For example, “his shooting has regressed from elite to average, his defense has deteriorated from below-average to catastrophic, and his team has actually been more successful with Buddy on the bench rather than in the game”

 and “Buddy’s individual play and attitude are also massive factors in not only his performance, but also his reputation with the fan base. He’s forcing bad shots on a nightly basis, taking more pull-up three-pointers than ever, and hasn’t exactly endeared himself to fans throughmultiple nasty comments to the media about his teammates and coaches.”

These aren’t the qualities you want from a role playing sixth man.

If they really have soured on Hield, it makes it even more strange that SAC didn't match Bogdan's offer sheet. Hield is hardly an amazing asset, but they certainly should be able to get plus compensation for him. My guess is that they are going to try to buy into his game, rather than making him compete for minutes (which is why they let Bogdan go), and see if he can be more of a leading guy. The previous season he scored 21ppg on 43% from 3 - that is REALLY good.

Not that I wouldn't consider thoughts like this, but this is from the fansided network of NBA sites. Any Joe could have wrote this. We have many, many fans on this website that could write similar material about any of the Celtic players. Just because they are a fan, doesn't mean they know basketball or what they are saying is accurate.

For example, like Moranis pointed out, Hield's shooting a smidge under 40%. That's still really good. He was about 43% in three seasons before that. Is it more likely he last year was an anomaly or last year was a sign of things to come? Shooting normally doesn't just go away.

He's never been a very good defender, but he's normally been intelligent and willing to put forth effort. What happens when you get bench, have an inconsistent role, and are playing for a difficult coach? Most every player's effort wanes in that situation.

I think he could be passable on defense in a consistent scheme.