Author Topic: Defense wins championships  (Read 4106 times)

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Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2019, 01:38:35 AM »

Offline Never Nervous Pervis

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The idea that you are either a superstar or a role player and nothing in-between is hilarious.

Lowry's a five-time all-star and Siakam will be one next season. VanVleet, I guess is a role player, but I think you could make a case that he would be a quality starter on several teams.

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2019, 01:39:16 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

this term role player gets tossed around a lot. What and who exactly is a role player? In my book every player has a role.

Its self-explanatory. They are players with specific roles on the team (Rim-protector, spot-up shooter, lock up defender, etc.)

Star players are guys who can do more than one role and carry the team for most of the time. There is a time that some All-Star players are role players at one point. Even Kawhi himself was one.

Your point is the likes of Michael Jordan, Kareem, Bird, Magic did not have a role on their teams?

Those guys played more than one role and were all-stars from the get-go.

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2019, 01:39:52 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2019, 01:41:04 AM »

Offline blink

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?

I wouldn't last year.  But that is last year, this is this year.  So what?
 
Lowry played poorly in last year's playoffs, in this year's he excelled.  Siakam was off the charts the whole playoffs.
Players improve.  Are you trying to say Siakam is still a role player now because he was a role player last year?

And btw, I don't have to 'call' them championship caliber, they are champions.  It is a fact.


Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2019, 01:42:15 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody was calling  him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.


Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2019, 01:44:02 AM »

Offline PhoSita

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The raptors were a great defensive team but they also had an 8 man rotation of guys that could hit shots from all over the court. Gotta have shot makers and tough rebounders.
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Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2019, 01:44:05 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody was calling  him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.
People still aren't calling them that. They're just calling him what he is - an All-Star - rather than a role-player
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2019, 01:44:37 AM »

Offline blink

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody is calling him him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.

Look you are the one imagining that people are calling him a top 10 top 20 player.  Literally NO ONE has said that in this whole discussion.  Sure move the goal posts....whatever.

But some of us realize that they are way above 'role player'  or 'glue guys'.

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2019, 01:48:11 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody is calling him him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.

Look you are the one imagining that people are calling him a top 10 top 20 player.  Literally NO ONE has said that in this whole discussion.  Sure move the goal posts....whatever.

But some of us realize that they are way above 'role player'  or 'glue guys'.

All-Star role players. How's that sound? You people are flipping over the simple term. lol

Al Horford is a 5x All-Star. But I remember some poster here calling him a super glue guy. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2019, 01:56:11 AM »

Offline Ogaju

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody is calling him him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.

Look you are the one imagining that people are calling him a top 10 top 20 player.  Literally NO ONE has said that in this whole discussion.  Sure move the goal posts....whatever.

But some of us realize that they are way above 'role player'  or 'glue guys'.

was Rodman a 'role' player? all he did was rebound and defense.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 02:10:28 AM by Ogaju »

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2019, 02:16:43 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody is calling him him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.

Look you are the one imagining that people are calling him a top 10 top 20 player.  Literally NO ONE has said that in this whole discussion.  Sure move the goal posts....whatever.

But some of us realize that they are way above 'role player'  or 'glue guys'.

All-Star role players. How's that sound? You people are flipping over the simple term. lol

Al Horford is a 5x All-Star. But I remember some poster here calling him a super glue guy. Nothing wrong with that.
Even more ridiculous
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2019, 02:35:49 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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The idea that you are either a superstar or a role player and nothing in-between is hilarious.

Lowry's a five-time all-star and Siakam will be one next season. VanVleet, I guess is a role player, but I think you could make a case that he would be a quality starter on several teams.

I guess guys like Tyson Chandler, Deandre Jordan, Kyle Korver and Jamaal Magloire are all-stars too.

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2019, 02:36:55 AM »

Offline mr. dee

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody is calling him him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.

Look you are the one imagining that people are calling him a top 10 top 20 player.  Literally NO ONE has said that in this whole discussion.  Sure move the goal posts....whatever.

But some of us realize that they are way above 'role player'  or 'glue guys'.

was Rodman a 'role' player? all he did was rebound and defense.

Yes. Whether you like the term or not. He's a super role player. And again, there is nothing wrong with calling him one.

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2019, 08:51:15 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Masai doesn't have any secret to team building, remember he tried to blow it up and trade Lowry before this run really started. He definitely has drafted for the modern NBA recently, look at how many versatile wings they have on their roster. Just a smart GM who was willing to go for it multiple times. (Ibaka trade, Kawhi trade, etc)

He is like Morey but smarter and luckier

Re: Defense wins championships
« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2019, 10:07:23 AM »

Offline BitterJim

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I mean they were the 5th best offense this year and the 5th best defense.

You need both in the modern NBA.

Probably. But even then, Kawhi is the only guy who can consistently score on that team. Others are just role players who embraced their roles.
That's really not true, he's the only consistent isolation player. They have plenty of shooters, transition players, and passers.

Spot up shooters are role players. Gasol is a role player at this point and can no longer score consistently. So is Ibaka. VanFleet is an Eddie House type spark off the bench, another role player. They can shoot, yes. But they don't consistently score.

Danny Green was cold as ice until he woke up in the finals.

I don't know why being a called a role player is a taboo on this forum or anywhere in general. Teams don't necessarily need superstars or all-stars for that matter as help. They need someone who will play within their role and execute the system offense/defense to perfection.

It isn't a taboo, but you are just wrong about Siakam and Lowry, they aren't role players.  Siamkam is probably looking at an all-star appearance next year, and Lowry already has been an all-star. 

from espn
"Kawhi Leonard and Pascal Siakam combined for 1,187 points this postseason, tied with Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen for 2nd-most by a duo in a single postseason in NBA history. Only LeBron James and Dwyane Wade had more in 2012 (1,222)."

These guys aren't Tony Allen and Kendrick Perkins.

Not saying they are just role players, but are you really taking these guys over the likes of Harden, Kyrie, Damian, Westbrook or even prior to this Finals series?

Lowry was considered in as a lower tier all-star and Siakam as just a young solid player. He could leap as an All-Star next year but he's not exactly a superstar either (at least not yet).

No one said they were superstars!?!??!  Who ever said that?

So now you are saying that they 'aren't' role players.  Ok well we can all agree on that then lol...

Glue guys are still role players. But a very good ones. Again, why do people take the term as an insult or means to degrade a player?

Dude you just changed your mind and said they aren't role players, but now they are 'glue guys'? 

man alive Siakam and Lowry are not role players / glue guys.   They are all stars (soon to be all stars) and high level starters on an NBA championship team.  That completely ISN'T the definition of "glue guy".

Would you call them championship caliber starters back with Derozan?
Lol, what?? This kind of reasoning could be used to discredit so many players (including some notable Celtic champions from KG to Robert Parish). Nonsense

I love that people sung a different tune when they finally won it all. I don't remember people here calling Lowry a great player. A very good one, but nobody is calling him him a top 10 or maybe not even top 20 player.

Look you are the one imagining that people are calling him a top 10 top 20 player.  Literally NO ONE has said that in this whole discussion.  Sure move the goal posts....whatever.

But some of us realize that they are way above 'role player'  or 'glue guys'.

All-Star role players. How's that sound? You people are flipping over the simple term. lol

Al Horford is a 5x All-Star. But I remember some poster here calling him a super glue guy. Nothing wrong with that.

Like mental gymnastics. Lowry has made the All Star team each of the last 5 years, he's clearly more than a role player

Unless you want to extend the definition of "role player" to include anyone that plays a role, like Kawhi Leonard (playing the role of #1 scorer/top defender/go-to guy)

Edit: If Lowry is a role player by your definition, what is his single role on the team?
« Last Edit: June 14, 2019, 10:32:53 AM by BitterJim »
I'm bitter.