A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)

[LarBrd33]

In regards to Jon not having targaryan features, I found a post that sums it up:

Because he has Stark features and was not born of an incestuous union.

Why doesn't he have the Targaryen look? Not all Targaryens look like Dany and Viserys. Targaryens have intermarried into Dornishmen and Martells. Rhaeger's other children were known to look like their mother, Elia Martell. In this case, Lyanna was a Stark. It has been mentioned that Jon and Arya resemble each other, and Arya is strikingly similar to Lyanna. Ned is said to share Lyanna's features.  All the other Stark children resemble Cat. This is a source of a great deal of distress for Catelyn - that it is Jon, the ****, and not Robb or her other sons that look like Ned.

How can he be a Targaryen if he burnt his hand? Targaryens are not immune to fire.  As mentioned in the previous episode, one Targaryen king died trying to drink wildfire. Many other known kings have perished in fire. Viserys burnt. Dany is an exception.

Here's a whole list of targayans with different hair colors:  https://m.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/29yiwa/spoilers_all_targaryens_without_silvergold/

The Baratheon thing was specific to them.  The Black hair trait seemed to always beat out Lannister blonde.

Id say there's a 99.9% chance Jon is the son of lyanna and rhaeger.  It's pretty obvious at this point.  Any alternative theory is a reach.  Everything in the show points to it.

I never read the books, though.

Speaking of not reading the books, I see book fans mention all the time some prophecy about three heads of a dragon.  Has that ever been referenced in the show?  I don't recall ever hearing that.

[Casperian]

My main problem with some of the theories expressed on the last few pages is that people pick and choose the evidence to support them, while at the same time disregard evidence to the contrary.

Take the whole Azor Ahai thing, for example.
Melisandre thought Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn because her vision told her that the new AA was "born amidst salt and smoke", so she concluded he was born on Dragonstone. Who else was born on Dragonstone? Daenerys, the "Stormborn". Maester Aemon, a Targaryen himself, thought the prophecy was misinterpreted, and that AA was actually a woman.
But of course, Dany isn't the only one who was born on Dragonstone. Stannis daughter Shireen was born there, too, and Shireen even suffers from Greyscale, also known as Garin's curse, which, given the backstory around Garin, might play a role in the whole AA arc...

And "born amidst salt and smoke" might not even refer to Dragonstone, at all. You become a disciple of the drowned God from the Iron Isles by actually drowning, and being reborn again, which will often grant you prophetic abilities, as it happened to Patchface, for example. Who's to say that being born amidst salt and smoke doesn't actually mean to be "reborn" under the sea?

Here's one of Patchface's prophecies, who are among the most reliable prophecies in the entire series

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,” Patchface sang somewhere. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

Then there's the whole Nissa Nissa thing. In order to ignite his flaming sword Lightbringer, Azor Ahai had to drive his sword through his wife Nissa Nissa. Both Jon and Dany have quite a few themes in their respective story arcs, but love isn't one of them. Who could possibly be their Nissa Nissa if either of them really is AA reborn? In fact, there are only 2-3 characters still alive in the whole series who would qualify as being truly "in love". Jaime Lannister, Jorah Mormont and maybe Brienne.

Here's Jaime's dream he had while sleeping on a stump of a weirwood tree. You know, the trees of the Old Gods with faces on them, which Bran uses to see visions of the past.

This is your place, Brother. This is your darkness." Her torch was the only light in the cavern. Her torch was the only light in the world. She turned to go.

"Stay with me," Jaime pleaded. "Don't leave me here alone." But they were leaving. "Don't leave me in the dark!" Something terrible lived down here. "Give me a sword, at least."

"I gave you a sword," Lord Tywin said.

It was at his feet. Jaime groped under the water until his hand closed upon the hilt. Nothing can hurt me so long as I have a sword. As he raised the sword a finger of pale flame flickered at the point and crept up along the edge, stopping a hand's breath from the hilt. The fire took on the color of the steel itself so it burned with a silvery-blue light, and the gloom pulled back. Crouching, listening, Jaime moved in a circle, ready for anything that might come out of the darkness. The water flowed into his boots, ankle deep and bitterly cold. Beware the water, he told himself. There may be creatures living in it, hidden deeps..

- Brienne appears from the darkness, her hands bound in chains. She is also naked, and asks Jaime to undo her chains. When she asks, a sword appears. Both Brienne's sword and Jaime's are aflame. -

"The flames will burn so long as you live," he heard Cersei call. "When they die, so must you."

Let's not forget about all the Gods. There are many different religions and deities in Westeros and Essos. The Seven, the Old Gods, the Lord of Light, the Drowned God and his eternal enemy, the Storm God, and the many-faced God, to name just the most prominent.
I don't remember exactly where it was mentioned in the books, but it is said that most of these names refer to the same few deities. The faith of the Seven is pretty much confirmed as a heresy. Among the Seven, for example, is one aspect known as "the Stranger", and I think it is in one of Arya's chapters where it is said that the Stranger is actually the many-faced God. In fact, presumably all seven are just aspects of the many-faced God, the God of death.

Now, why do I bring that up?
Because there's a very interesting story related to the Drowned God, the story of the Grey King.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Grey_King

The Grey King is so named because his hair, beard, and eyes were grey as the winter sea, and at the end of his life even his skin had turned grey...

The Grey King brought fire to the earth by taunting the Storm God into setting a tree on fire with a thunderbolt.

Sounds a lot like Greyscale, doesn't it?

It is interesting because it is the only other dualistic religion in ASOIAF besides the religion of the Red God, R'hllor, and his enemy, the "Great Other", God of ice and death. Both religions are also shown to work miracles, and have themes in common, such as resurrection, prophetic visions or bringing fire to mankind. Keep in mind, Azor Ahai is the messiah of the Red God. He might very well also be the messiah of the Drowned God, much like the Grey King was.

So, I don't think it is far-fetched to assume Azor Ahai could suffer from Greyscale, too. Greyscale is also known as Garin's curse.

According to legend, the men of Volantis and Valyria hung Garin in a golden cage and mocked him as he called upon Mother Rhoyne to destroy them. That very night, the waters rose and drowned the invaders of Chroyane.
...
From that day, the spirits of the fallen conquerors have said to have remained beneath the waters, they who were once the lords of fire. It is believed that their cold breath is still said to rise from the murk to make the fogs that infest the ruined city in the Sorrows, and their flesh is said to have turned as stony as their hearts. It is also believed by some that Garin rose from his watery grave and became the Shrouded Lord.

Now, without going too much into detail, you might remember that in ADWD, Tyrion fell into the Rhoyne, "blacked out", and then woke up on board of his ship again after a feverish dream.

He dreamt of his lord father and the Shrouded Lord. He dreamt that they were one and the same, and when his father wrapped stone arms around him and bent to give him his grey kiss, he woke with his mouth dry and rusty with the taste of blood and his heart hammering in his chest.

Greyscale doesn't show up immediately after contraction. It's specifically stated in the books that sometimes it takes years after the infection before the first symptoms appear. Depending on how much weight you give to certain passages in the books, there are several potential clues that Tyrion contracted Greyscale when he fell into the Rhoyne. Who's to say he didn't actually drown in that river when he "blacked out", but the Drowned God/Red God resurrected him and then left his "mark" upon him?

So, as far as I'm concerned, Tyrion could very well be another potential candidate to become Azor Ahai reborn.

No matter what, as you can see, there are many, many different theories out there who all have a certain degree of plausibility when it comes to Azor Ahai.

[Casperian]

In regards to Jon not having targaryan features, I found a post that sums it up:

Because he has Stark features and was not born of an incestuous union.

Why doesn't he have the Targaryen look? Not all Targaryens look like Dany and Viserys. Targaryens have intermarried into Dornishmen and Martells. Rhaeger's other children were known to look like their mother, Elia Martell. In this case, Lyanna was a Stark. It has been mentioned that Jon and Arya resemble each other, and Arya is strikingly similar to Lyanna. Ned is said to share Lyanna's features.  All the other Stark children resemble Cat. This is a source of a great deal of distress for Catelyn - that it is Jon, the ****, and not Robb or her other sons that look like Ned.

How can he be a Targaryen if he burnt his hand? Targaryens are not immune to fire.  As mentioned in the previous episode, one Targaryen king died trying to drink wildfire. Many other known kings have perished in fire. Viserys burnt. Dany is an exception.

Here's a whole list of targayans with different hair colors:  https://m.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/29yiwa/spoilers_all_targaryens_without_silvergold/

The Baratheon thing was specific to them.  The Black hair trait seemed to always beat out Lannister blonde.

You beat me to it.
I'd add that House Baratheon itself is the only great House of Westeros which is directly related to the Targaryens, as their founder was actually a Targaryen bas tard, proving that not all Targaryens have silver hair.

[LarBrd33]

My main problem with some of the theories expressed on the last few pages is that people pick and choose the evidence to support them, while at the same time disregard evidence to the contrary.

Take the whole Azor Ahai thing, for example.
Melisandre thought Stannis was Azor Ahai reborn because her vision told her that the new AA was "born amidst salt and smoke", so she concluded he was born on Dragonstone. Who else was born on Dragonstone? Daenerys, the "Stormborn". Maester Aemon, a Targaryen himself, thought the prophecy was misinterpreted, and that AA was actually a woman.
But of course, Dany isn't the only one who was born on Dragonstone. Stannis daughter Shireen was born there, too, and Shireen even suffers from Greyscale, also known as Garin's curse, which, given the backstory around Garin, might play a role in the whole AA arc...

And "born amidst salt and smoke" might not even refer to Dragonstone, at all. You become a disciple of the drowned God from the Iron Isles by actually drowning, and being reborn again, which will often grant you prophetic abilities, as it happened to Patchface, for example. Who's to say that being born amidst salt and smoke doesn't actually mean to be "reborn" under the sea?

Here's one of Patchface's prophecies, who are among the most reliable prophecies in the entire series

“Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black,” Patchface sang somewhere. “I know, I know, oh, oh, oh.”

Then there's the whole Nissa Nissa thing. In order to ignite his flaming sword Lightbringer, Azor Ahai had to drive his sword through his wife Nissa Nissa. Both Jon and Dany have quite a few themes in their respective story arcs, but love isn't one of them. Who could possibly be their Nissa Nissa if either of them really is AA reborn? In fact, there are only 2-3 characters still alive in the whole series who would qualify as being truly "in love". Jaime Lannister, Jorah Mormont and maybe Brienne.

Here's Jaime's dream he had while sleeping on a stump of a weirwood tree. You know, the trees of the Old Gods with faces on them, which Bran uses to see visions of the past.

This is your place, Brother. This is your darkness." Her torch was the only light in the cavern. Her torch was the only light in the world. She turned to go.

"Stay with me," Jaime pleaded. "Don't leave me here alone." But they were leaving. "Don't leave me in the dark!" Something terrible lived down here. "Give me a sword, at least."

"I gave you a sword," Lord Tywin said.

It was at his feet. Jaime groped under the water until his hand closed upon the hilt. Nothing can hurt me so long as I have a sword. As he raised the sword a finger of pale flame flickered at the point and crept up along the edge, stopping a hand's breath from the hilt. The fire took on the color of the steel itself so it burned with a silvery-blue light, and the gloom pulled back. Crouching, listening, Jaime moved in a circle, ready for anything that might come out of the darkness. The water flowed into his boots, ankle deep and bitterly cold. Beware the water, he told himself. There may be creatures living in it, hidden deeps..

- Brienne appears from the darkness, her hands bound in chains. She is also naked, and asks Jaime to undo her chains. When she asks, a sword appears. Both Brienne's sword and Jaime's are aflame. -

"The flames will burn so long as you live," he heard Cersei call. "When they die, so must you."

Let's not forget about all the Gods. There are many different religions and deities in Westeros and Essos. The Seven, the Old Gods, the Lord of Light, the Drowned God and his eternal enemy, the Storm God, and the many-faced God, to name just the most prominent.
I don't remember exactly where it was mentioned in the books, but it is said that most of these names refer to the same few deities. The faith of the Seven is pretty much confirmed as a heresy. Among the Seven, for example, is one aspect known as "the Stranger", and I think it is in one of Arya's chapters where it is said that the Stranger is actually the many-faced God. In fact, presumably all seven are just aspects of the many-faced God, the God of death.

Now, why do I bring that up?
Because there's a very interesting story related to the Drowned God, the story of the Grey King.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Grey_King

The Grey King is so named because his hair, beard, and eyes were grey as the winter sea, and at the end of his life even his skin had turned grey...

The Grey King brought fire to the earth by taunting the Storm God into setting a tree on fire with a thunderbolt.

Sounds a lot like Greyscale, doesn't it?

It is interesting because it is the only other dualistic religion in ASOIAF besides the religion of the Red God, R'hllor, and his enemy, the "Great Other", God of ice and death. Both religions are also shown to work miracles, and have themes in common, such as resurrection, prophetic visions or bringing fire to mankind. Keep in mind, Azor Ahai is the messiah of the Red God. He might very well also be the messiah of the Drowned God, much like the Grey King was.

So, I don't think it is far-fetched to assume Azor Ahai could suffer from Greyscale, too. Greyscale is also known as Garin's curse.

According to legend, the men of Volantis and Valyria hung Garin in a golden cage and mocked him as he called upon Mother Rhoyne to destroy them. That very night, the waters rose and drowned the invaders of Chroyane.
...
From that day, the spirits of the fallen conquerors have said to have remained beneath the waters, they who were once the lords of fire. It is believed that their cold breath is still said to rise from the murk to make the fogs that infest the ruined city in the Sorrows, and their flesh is said to have turned as stony as their hearts. It is also believed by some that Garin rose from his watery grave and became the Shrouded Lord.

Now, without going too much into detail, you might remember that in ADWD, Tyrion fell into the Rhoyne, "blacked out", and then woke up on board of his ship again after a feverish dream.

He dreamt of his lord father and the Shrouded Lord. He dreamt that they were one and the same, and when his father wrapped stone arms around him and bent to give him his grey kiss, he woke with his mouth dry and rusty with the taste of blood and his heart hammering in his chest.

Greyscale doesn't show up immediately after contraction. It's specifically stated in the books that sometimes it takes years after the infection before the first symptoms appear. Depending on how much weight you give to certain passages in the books, there are several potential clues that Tyrion contracted Greyscale when he fell into the Rhoyne. Who's to say he didn't actually drown in that river when he "blacked out", but the Drowned God/Red God resurrected him and then left his "mark" upon him?

So, as far as I'm concerned, Tyrion could very well be another potential candidate to become Azor Ahai reborn.

No matter what, as you can see, there are many, many different theories out there who all have a certain degree of plausibility when it comes to Azor Ahai.

So many of those details are book related and I basically operate under the assumption that if it doesn't exist in the tv show, I don't care.  The thing with the L+R=J theory is that it was telegraphed right from the start of the show.  The show took great pains to point out how Ned would never cheat on his wife.  They had him say things that were suspicious like referring to Jon as "blood".   They took great pains to establish mythos surrounding lyanna and rhegar in multiple seasons talking about their backstory and planting the seed of doubt that rhegar was the type to abduct and rape anyone.  Then obviously this season they make it pretty clear she's pregnant in the tower.   Everything in the show points to it.

I'm curious if they have ever actually said "Azor Ahai" in the show. Do they always just refer to the "prince who was promised"?  My only frame of reference for it is the red woman thinking every guy she meets is the chosen one. 

[Celtics4ever]

I think Last night also shows that Dany is fireproof, not reborn, it cheapened the symbolic rebirth.  That scene with the Dothraki was pretty silly.   There were just talking about sorcerers and their evil and the whole horde is going to follow a woman who walks out the flames displaying magical powers.   That made a lot of sense.  Some of the story lines seem rushed at this point.   
I've feel that the show feels cheapened as a result somewhat this season but I still will watch it.

My main problem with some of the theories expressed on the last few pages is that people pick and choose the evidence to support them, while at the same time disregard evidence to the contrary.

Azor Ahai is a common prophecy in the books.  Recall what Marwyn the mage said about prophecy in Martin's books. 
"a prophecy is like a treacherous woman....."

It is pretty clear the show's organizers know what is going to happen, and they have placed clues all through the show.  I recently read on that claimed Dayne's sword, which was forged from a star and had his blood on it was the falling star that fulfills the prophecy.

I wish there was another name for literature theories than theories.   Theories are the realm of science, most of the theories are just a hunch.  Any person with a computer account can post them.  Trouble with words is that two people can read them and get different meanings based on their biases.   This is true of books, it is true of the Bible as well.  Hence, so many different churches sprang from the same book, many of them claiming to be the truth path.

[fairweatherfan]

Very rarely does a television program induce legit goosebumps.  I got some tonight when Sansa reunited with John.  Such a long road to get any of the Starks back together. Really the most hopeful episode in seasons.

Daenerys essentially single-handedly burned every Khal at the stake in the temple of Vaes Dothrak, ultimately claiming the entire Dothraki horde as her own - yet you got chills only when Sansa reunited with Jon?! 

Seriously, though, how awesome was that scene? So now does she take her horde back to Mereen and the other slave cities and kill the masters? I know the show has diverged quite a bit from the Mereen/masters narrative, but does the Greyjoy story stay the same with Victarion coming to Mereen as Daenerys is there with the horde now? Does "dragonbinder" make an appearance?? So many questions.

Daenerys takes her horde and razes Astapor and Yunkai to the ground, ruining Tyrion's work but "solving" the problem.  She heads to Westeros and becomes the series' main human antagonist as a new Mad King, but is ultimately stopped by Arya exploiting every GoT antagonist's main weakness - getting stabbed in the back.


In all seriousness I liked the scene but I think everyone saw Daenerys taking over the Dothraki coming.  I just assumed it'd be Drogon dropping to save her and everyone respecting that she had the most badass "horse" out there.

[jpotter33]

Very rarely does a television program induce legit goosebumps.  I got some tonight when Sansa reunited with John.  Such a long road to get any of the Starks back together. Really the most hopeful episode in seasons.

Daenerys essentially single-handedly burned every Khal at the stake in the temple of Vaes Dothrak, ultimately claiming the entire Dothraki horde as her own - yet you got chills only when Sansa reunited with Jon?! 

Seriously, though, how awesome was that scene? So now does she take her horde back to Mereen and the other slave cities and kill the masters? I know the show has diverged quite a bit from the Mereen/masters narrative, but does the Greyjoy story stay the same with Victarion coming to Mereen as Daenerys is there with the horde now? Does "dragonbinder" make an appearance?? So many questions.

Daenerys takes her horde and razes Astapor and Yunkai to the ground, ruining Tyrion's work but "solving" the problem.  She heads to Westeros and becomes the series' main human antagonist as a new Mad King, but is ultimately stopped by Arya exploiting every GoT antagonist's main weakness - getting stabbed in the back.


In all seriousness I liked the scene but I think everyone saw Daenerys taking over the Dothraki coming.  I just assumed it'd be Drogon dropping to save her and everyone respecting that she had the most badass "horse" out there.

Same. I liked that they actually went this way with it.

I ultimately think Daenerys is going to take issue with Tyrion's tactics of the grace period. She's always been a little more emotional and ruthless than diplomatic. I'm interested to see how that plays out, though it's probably not going to matter now that she has the entire Dothraki horde at her back.

[fairweatherfan]

Something that kind of slipped through the cracks that I'm excited to see - Cersei is very quickly engineering a situation where her two main enemies are being pitted against each other, and using an off-camera conversation (so she could be lying) to make it happen. 

This being Game of Thrones I doubt it'll work out the way she plans but it really seems like she's trying to get them to wipe each other out.


EDIT:  Oh yeah, and I LOOOOVE the theory than Daenerys will become the main (human) antagonist as the avatar of R'hllor, but I doubt the show has the guts to go through with it - fans would revolt.

[Redz]

Very rarely does a television program induce legit goosebumps.  I got some tonight when Sansa reunited with John.  Such a long road to get any of the Starks back together. Really the most hopeful episode in seasons.

Daenerys essentially single-handedly burned every Khal at the stake in the temple of Vaes Dothrak, ultimately claiming the entire Dothraki horde as her own - yet you got chills only when Sansa reunited with Jon?! 

Seriously, though, how awesome was that scene? So now does she take her horde back to Mereen and the other slave cities and kill the masters? I know the show has diverged quite a bit from the Mereen/masters narrative, but does the Greyjoy story stay the same with Victarion coming to Mereen as Daenerys is there with the horde now? Does "dragonbinder" make an appearance?? So many questions.

The Dragon Queen mass immolation was one for the ages for sure.  But between the books and the movies and all the real life and story line years involved with no Stark reconnections, that reunion was pretty gratifying. 

[Celtics4ever]

I think Danny will come to conquer then have to team up to fight the White Walkers with Jon.   I have thought that since the beginning. 

[LarBrd33]

Very rarely does a television program induce legit goosebumps.  I got some tonight when Sansa reunited with John.  Such a long road to get any of the Starks back together. Really the most hopeful episode in seasons.

Daenerys essentially single-handedly burned every Khal at the stake in the temple of Vaes Dothrak, ultimately claiming the entire Dothraki horde as her own - yet you got chills only when Sansa reunited with Jon?! 

Seriously, though, how awesome was that scene? So now does she take her horde back to Mereen and the other slave cities and kill the masters? I know the show has diverged quite a bit from the Mereen/masters narrative, but does the Greyjoy story stay the same with Victarion coming to Mereen as Daenerys is there with the horde now? Does "dragonbinder" make an appearance?? So many questions.

Daenerys takes her horde and razes Astapor and Yunkai to the ground, ruining Tyrion's work but "solving" the problem.  She heads to Westeros and becomes the series' main human antagonist as a new Mad King, but is ultimately stopped by Arya exploiting every GoT antagonist's main weakness - getting stabbed in the back.


In all seriousness I liked the scene but I think everyone saw Daenerys taking over the Dothraki coming.  I just assumed it'd be Drogon dropping to save her and everyone respecting that she had the most badass "horse" out there.

Same. I liked that they actually went this way with it.

I ultimately think Daenerys is going to take issue with Tyrion's tactics of the grace period. She's always been a little more emotional and ruthless than diplomatic. I'm interested to see how that plays out, though it's probably not going to matter now that she has the entire Dothraki horde at her back.

Dany killing Tyrion would go a long way towards turning her heel.

[Future Celtics Owner]

I want to see Winterfell taken and Ramsey dead.

[jpotter33]

Very rarely does a television program induce legit goosebumps.  I got some tonight when Sansa reunited with John.  Such a long road to get any of the Starks back together. Really the most hopeful episode in seasons.

Daenerys essentially single-handedly burned every Khal at the stake in the temple of Vaes Dothrak, ultimately claiming the entire Dothraki horde as her own - yet you got chills only when Sansa reunited with Jon?! 

Seriously, though, how awesome was that scene? So now does she take her horde back to Mereen and the other slave cities and kill the masters? I know the show has diverged quite a bit from the Mereen/masters narrative, but does the Greyjoy story stay the same with Victarion coming to Mereen as Daenerys is there with the horde now? Does "dragonbinder" make an appearance?? So many questions.

Daenerys takes her horde and razes Astapor and Yunkai to the ground, ruining Tyrion's work but "solving" the problem.  She heads to Westeros and becomes the series' main human antagonist as a new Mad King, but is ultimately stopped by Arya exploiting every GoT antagonist's main weakness - getting stabbed in the back.


In all seriousness I liked the scene but I think everyone saw Daenerys taking over the Dothraki coming.  I just assumed it'd be Drogon dropping to save her and everyone respecting that she had the most badass "horse" out there.

Same. I liked that they actually went this way with it.

I ultimately think Daenerys is going to take issue with Tyrion's tactics of the grace period. She's always been a little more emotional and ruthless than diplomatic. I'm interested to see how that plays out, though it's probably not going to matter now that she has the entire Dothraki horde at her back.

Dany killing Tyrion would go a long way towards turning her heel.

Eh, I think those two (plus Jon) are unkillable at the moment, especially one killing the other lol

[LarBrd33]

Very rarely does a television program induce legit goosebumps.  I got some tonight when Sansa reunited with John.  Such a long road to get any of the Starks back together. Really the most hopeful episode in seasons.

Daenerys essentially single-handedly burned every Khal at the stake in the temple of Vaes Dothrak, ultimately claiming the entire Dothraki horde as her own - yet you got chills only when Sansa reunited with Jon?! 

Seriously, though, how awesome was that scene? So now does she take her horde back to Mereen and the other slave cities and kill the masters? I know the show has diverged quite a bit from the Mereen/masters narrative, but does the Greyjoy story stay the same with Victarion coming to Mereen as Daenerys is there with the horde now? Does "dragonbinder" make an appearance?? So many questions.

Daenerys takes her horde and razes Astapor and Yunkai to the ground, ruining Tyrion's work but "solving" the problem.  She heads to Westeros and becomes the series' main human antagonist as a new Mad King, but is ultimately stopped by Arya exploiting every GoT antagonist's main weakness - getting stabbed in the back.


In all seriousness I liked the scene but I think everyone saw Daenerys taking over the Dothraki coming.  I just assumed it'd be Drogon dropping to save her and everyone respecting that she had the most badass "horse" out there.

Same. I liked that they actually went this way with it.

I ultimately think Daenerys is going to take issue with Tyrion's tactics of the grace period. She's always been a little more emotional and ruthless than diplomatic. I'm interested to see how that plays out, though it's probably not going to matter now that she has the entire Dothraki horde at her back.

Dany killing Tyrion would go a long way towards turning her heel.

Eh, I think those two (plus Jon) are unkillable at the moment, especially one killing the other lol

Yeah i still think Dany is the last big "shocking" death the show can have.  Of all of them, I'd be on Dany dying.

[Casperian]

So many of those details are book related and I basically operate under the assumption that if it doesn't exist in the tv show, I don't care.  The thing with the L+R=J theory is that it was telegraphed right from the start of the show.  The show took great pains to point out how Ned would never cheat on his wife.  They had him say things that were suspicious like referring to Jon as "blood".   They took great pains to establish mythos surrounding lyanna and rhegar in multiple seasons talking about their backstory and planting the seed of doubt that rhegar was the type to abduct and rape anyone.  Then obviously this season they make it pretty clear she's pregnant in the tower.   Everything in the show points to it.

I'm curious if they have ever actually said "Azor Ahai" in the show. Do they always just refer to the "prince who was promised"?  My only frame of reference for it is the red woman thinking every guy she meets is the chosen one.

I'm not sure, but I don't think they ever used the term Azor Ahai on the show. I'm guessing it would become too confusing for the casual viewer. Since Azor Ahai and prince who was promised are used interchangably in the books, anyway, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

And I agree with R+L=J. It has been telegraphed for a long time now, even in the books.

Azor Ahai is a common prophecy in the books.  Recall what Marwyn the mage said about prophecy in Martin's books. 
"a prophecy is like a treacherous woman....."

It is pretty clear the show's organizers know what is going to happen, and they have placed clues all through the show.  I recently read on that claimed Dayne's sword, which was forged from a star and had his blood on it was the falling star that fulfills the prophecy.

AFAICR, all valyrian swords were forged from that same meteor, so really, it could be any named sword. I actually thought Jaime's dream I posted earlier hinted at Oathbreaker being the Lightbringer, as both Jaime and Brienne carried it. Then again, maybe the whole flaming sword thing was a bit too obvious for a clue.

Regarding the producers knowing what's going to happen, actors on the show said something to the extent of "they know A, and they know B, but they don't know how A gets to B", so I think there's a good chance the show will change who becomes AA.
FWIW, Martin already complained about the producers killing off side characters who are still alive in the books, as they apparently still have a role to play in the things to come.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, and I LOOOOVE the theory than Daenerys will become the main (human) antagonist as the avatar of R'hllor, but I doubt the show has the guts to go through with it - fans would revolt.

Been saying that for years. All Dany does is amass an all-conquering invasion force which will bring nothing but death and terror to Westeros, all because it is her "birth right" to sit on the Iron Throne. You think a guy like Hot Pie, for example, who only cares about, well, hot pies, gives a crap who is the rightful heir to the throne? So many innocents would die if the Dothraki invade, it's hard to root for Dany.

But I'm curious: Why do you think the avatar of R'hllor will turn out to be the main antagonist? Not that I disagree, necessarily, but what makes you think R'hllor is the "evil" deity? After all, the series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire", and it's quasi established that R'hllor's opposing deity is the God of ice and death.