Anthony Davis traded to Lakers(page 272)

[Rondo9]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value. Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out? There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

That's not a great way of making your point.

First you make a statement and then immediately you give a counter argument to your statement.

I'm not sure why you think that diminishes the point I was making.  Please explain.

Because the pick had more value when it was more uncertain.

It went from a premium asset to a decent one.

Ah, I see that, it still works both ways though (especially for someone like me that was screaming up and down this board that Sacto wasn't going to be a bottom 5 team this year) i.e. you just never know where a team is going to end up and teams know this.  If you knew right now the pick was going to be 5, it would have more value than an unprotected pick in the same draft.  Certainty matters.  I mean Boston only has the Sacramento pick because the Lakers didn't end up in the top 5 the prior draft (which was a real possibility).

Ingram has disappointed many people this year for not improving on last year and besides some people kept saying Brooklyn was not going to be a bottom 3 team in 2017 but the Celtics ended with the number one pick. The Grizzlies have more uncertainty and they are in the packed west. Unless Jarren Jackson Jr makes an enmormous leap, it’s very likely the grizzlies will be bad for a long time.

[Phantom255x]

The Pelicans will be asking for Jayson Tatum, not Jaylen Brown.

Doesnt matter

They cant get everything

yeah what are the pelicans going to trade Davis for if they don’t get Tatum?  We don’t need to outbid ourselves we just need to outbid the Lakers.

Even if no other teams were interested, to outbid the Lakers Tatum will have to be included unless that Sacto pick strikes gold (like #2 pick gold).

Classic example of you underrating the value of Boston players, while overrating the value of players on the 29 other teams.

If rosters were reversed. You would talk about Ball and Ingram not showing much improvement since they were drafted and Kuzma turning 24 in the summer and being a one dimensional player. Plus, how rebuilding teams want draft picks and we don't have any of value to give.

Ingram is still a better prospect than Brown is around the league.  For example, here is a re-draft from last summer by New Arena, that still has the top 3 as Simmons, Ingram, and then Brown.  http://newarena.com/nba/2016-nba-re-draft-one-year-later/27/.  That doesn't even account for Ball, Kuzma, or Hart. 

If the Sacto pick is like 13th and the Memphis pick doesn't transfer, then Boston doesn't have any real high draft picks to add either. 

The simple reality is, unless the Sacto pick strikes gold, Boston cannot beat a Lakers offer without including Tatum.  That isn't me being a hater or whatever nonsense you constantly spout.  That is reality.

Have you actually bothered to watch Ingram play? If so, what is he actually good at? He takes a lot of long 2’s and isn’t a good 3PT shooter (I’m sure you haven’t bothered to look at his percentages), so he’s the embodiment of where the league is not trending. He’s not really a good defender and he hasn’t added much bulk to his skeleton body. I’d rather have Brown to be honest. We’ve seen him excel at the highest levels (2018 playoffs) and worst case can be a first tier 3 and D guy.

The Memphis pick will only gain value if it doesn’t convey. Not sure where you’re been or what you read, but everyone is saying the same thing. Unless you think a higher pick in better drafts are less valuable.

If you want to really pretend you don’t have any bias towards the Celtics, then you’re only fooling yourself. It’s pretty obvious to everyone that has read your posts. If you’re trying to hide it you aren’t doing a very good job.

Ingram and Brown have essentially the same TS% this year.  Brown is a better outside shooter, but Ingram gets to the line a lot more often.  They are comparable level of rebounders, but Ingram has shown to be a better passer (both this year and for their careers).  Ingram takes a higher volume of shots and as such scores more and is actually scoring more points per shot then Brown (this year).  Brown is obviously the better defender though Ingram is also almost a full year younger.

Ingram has more top end potential than Brown, though Brown is more likely to reach his top end potential than Ingram.  When you start looking at trade value, especially for players with similar current production, the younger player with a higher ceiling has more trade value.  That is quite simply reality.

As for the Memphis pick, uncertainty diminishes value.  Remember when Boston was getting a top 5 pick from Sacramento this year.  How is that working out?  There is no guarantee that the Memphis pick will end up being a very good pick.  It is at least guaranteed to become a 1st round pick unlike the Clippers pick (which might not), but there is absolutely no guarantee of what that pick will look like which absolutely hurts the value.  It probably would have more value next summer at 9 then it would 2 years down the line with an unknown position, even if it ultimately ends up being a higher pick (which is certainly possible).

2 things here. One, you say top-end potential with Ingram, but that's literally it. The only thing people say about Ingram these days is, "WOW! He's got the body like KD", but that's it. Ingram may be better than Brown but ONLY marginally. Also Brown to me has proven he can help the team win as a Top-3 option. Ingram hasn't, as we're seeing now without Lebron and even Kuzma and/or Ball for stretches. And Brown is a better defender, so frankly I think it's not as clear-cut that Ingram's the better trade value piece simply because he's got "KD potential". Even Lakers fans are getting sick of him similar to how some are getting sick of Brown here apparently.

Second, you're right about the picks and uncertainties. But regardless how you cut it, it's the same thing you say about value/potential, the picks Boston have to offer (Kings, Grizzlies) have way more potential than any Lakers pick they can offer, unless the Lakers miss the playoffs and it's a lottery pick (but I doubt they will). Boston simply has more picks to offer than the Lakers and it could still be likely 2 future lottery picks (one from the Kings, one from the Grizzlies). No guarantees, but still a much better bet than the Lakers future picks.

Those are the 2 things that really matter here. Tatum is likely the best asset coming out of the C's and Lakers bidding war, and the Lakers are the ones who will likely have to give up virtually their entire youth core to acquire him. Even if they offer that, Boston could still manage to outbid that with some creativity (and some heartbreak, sure).

[footey]

Are Lakers tanking now to enhance trade package offer for AD?

[tazzmaniac]

Are Lakers tanking now to enhance trade package offer for AD?

Obviously not.  They are one game over .500 and 4-6 in their last 10 with Lebron and Rondo being injured for most of that.  With a healthy Lebron, they can beat anyone in the West in the playoffs besides GSW.

The Lakers tanking may even hurt them with AD.  He wants to be competing for Championships.  If Lebron can take that team to the WCF that could decide it for AD.  Conversely if the Lakers miss the playoffs and the Clippers do well maybe they come into play or if we get to the finals maybe that decides it for AD.   

[footey]

Are Lakers tanking now to enhance trade package offer for AD?

Obviously not.  They are one game over .500 and 4-6 in their last 10 with Lebron and Rondo being injured for most of that.  With a healthy Lebron, they can beat anyone in the West in the playoffs besides GSW.

The Lakers tanking may even hurt them with AD.  He wants to be competing for Championships.  If Lebron can take that team to the WCF that could decide it for AD.  Conversely if the Lakers miss the playoffs and the Clippers do well maybe they come into play or if we get to the finals maybe that decides it for AD.

Understood but Davis doesn’t have a no trade clause. Just seems weird thT Lebron went from day to day to being out for a month.

[Phantom255x]

Are Lakers tanking now to enhance trade package offer for AD?

Obviously not.  They are one game over .500 and 4-6 in their last 10 with Lebron and Rondo being injured for most of that.  With a healthy Lebron, they can beat anyone in the West in the playoffs besides GSW.

The Lakers tanking may even hurt them with AD.  He wants to be competing for Championships.  If Lebron can take that team to the WCF that could decide it for AD.  Conversely if the Lakers miss the playoffs and the Clippers do well maybe they come into play or if we get to the finals maybe that decides it for AD.

Understood but Davis doesn’t have a no trade clause. Just seems weird thT Lebron went from day to day to being out for a month.

According to Windhorst on a podcast, Lebron may be out another 7-10 days too.

[Jvalin]

While I think Horford and Davis can play together, Al is getting old and doesn't have much left in the tank.  In a perfect world, he would be the salary going to New Orleans in the trade.  With his salary the trade could be enlarged to include Holiday (who I don't think New Orleans would really want to keep going forward)

So next summer I'd be good with something like this

Horford, Tatum, Smart, Yabu, and the 1st's

for

Davis, Holiday

So post trade for next year with the main rotation (maybe Rozier is brought back, maybe not)

PG - Irving, Holiday
SG - Holiday, Brown
SF - Hayward, Brown, Semi
PF - Morris, Davis, Theis
C - Davis, Baynes, Williams

I like that team even without Rozier.  Still have MLE to add some vets to the team.

Wanted to respond under your post but the mods have locked that thread, hence I'm posting here.

Imo, AD is at his best when playing at the 5. The same goes for Horford.
Likewise, Holiday is at his best when playing at the 1. The same goes for Kyrie.

If we're trading for both AD and Holiday, I wouldn't be against including Kyrie in the deal.

This way
- we get an all-star caliber player to replace Kyrie
- we keep both Tatum and Brown
- we can complete the deal prior to the deadline


Boston in: AD + Holiday
Boston out: Kyrie + Horford + Kings pick + Memphis pick + Clips pick + C's 2019 first

New Orleans in: Porzingis + Horford + Lee + Kings pick + Memphis pick + Clips pick + C's 2019 first + Knicks 2019 first
New Orleans out: AD + Holiday

NY in: Kyrie
NY out: Porzingis + Lee + Knicks 2019 first

(click on image to enlarge)

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8dunjqa


15-man roster after the trade

Holiday - Rozier - Wanamaker
Brown - Smart - Bird
Hayward - Morris - Semi
Tatum - Theis - Yabu
Davis - Baynes - Williams

[Roy H.]

Is there evidence that Davis is better at center? What skill does he lack to play PF?

[Moranis]

While I think Horford and Davis can play together, Al is getting old and doesn't have much left in the tank.  In a perfect world, he would be the salary going to New Orleans in the trade.  With his salary the trade could be enlarged to include Holiday (who I don't think New Orleans would really want to keep going forward)

So next summer I'd be good with something like this

Horford, Tatum, Smart, Yabu, and the 1st's

for

Davis, Holiday

So post trade for next year with the main rotation (maybe Rozier is brought back, maybe not)

PG - Irving, Holiday
SG - Holiday, Brown
SF - Hayward, Brown, Semi
PF - Morris, Davis, Theis
C - Davis, Baynes, Williams

I like that team even without Rozier.  Still have MLE to add some vets to the team.

Wanted to respond under your post but the mods have locked that thread, hence I'm posting here.

Imo, AD is at his best when playing at the 5. The same goes for Horford.
Likewise, Holiday is at his best when playing at the 1. The same goes for Kyrie.

If we're trading for both AD and Holiday, I wouldn't be against including Kyrie in the deal.

This way
- we get an all-star caliber player to replace Kyrie
- we keep both Tatum and Brown
- we can complete the deal prior to the deadline


Boston in: AD + Holiday
Boston out: Kyrie + Horford + Kings pick + Memphis pick + Clips pick + C's 2019 first

New Orleans in: Porzingis + Horford + Lee + Kings pick + Memphis pick + Clips pick + C's 2019 first + Knicks 2019 first
New Orleans out: AD + Holiday

NY in: Kyrie
NY out: Porzingis + Lee + Knicks 2019 first

(click on image to enlarge)

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8dunjqa


15-man roster after the trade

Holiday - Rozier - Wanamaker
Brown - Smart - Bird
Hayward - Morris - Semi
Tatum - Theis - Yabu
Davis - Baynes - Williams

I know Holiday has been very good this year, but I actually think he was better overall last year playing next to Rondo, who handled a lot of the ball responsibilities.  I also think Holiday defends better at SG (obviously he can't handle the really big ones all that well, but does fine against most SG's).  I think an Irving/Holiday back-court would be so good as each covers the others deficiencies. 

I also agree with Roy that Davis would be fine at power forward, I just think that trading Horford given his age is the most practical trade and without him, you don't get Davis and Holiday (can get Davis, just not both). 

[Jvalin]

Is there evidence that Davis is better at center? What skill does he lack to play PF?

Just my personal opinion.

AD lacks no skill whatsoever. He's an elite player no matter where he plays.

It's just that the pace of the game is ultra fast in today's NBA. Since he can play at the 5, I'd rather use him there and pair him with a mobile stretch 4. This way we 'd play in a super fast pace on offense and we'd switch everything on defense.

Horford is great, but he cannot defend multiple positions, neither can he play in a super fast pace any more (at least not on AD's level).

All in all, I guess what I meant to say is that he would help the team the most by playing at the 5. Not exactly the same thing as saying that ''he's at his best when playing at the 5'', I give you that. I'm not a native speaker and it's not always easy for me to express myself with clarity.

I know Holiday has been very good this year, but I actually think he was better overall last year playing next to Rondo, who handled a lot of the ball responsibilities.  I also think Holiday defends better at SG (obviously he can't handle the really big ones all that well, but does fine against most SG's).  I think an Irving/Holiday back-court would be so good as each covers the others deficiencies. 

I also agree with Roy that Davis would be fine at power forward, I just think that trading Horford given his age is the most practical trade and without him, you don't get Davis and Holiday (can get Davis, just not both).

Imo, Holiday is primarily a PG.

- he is undersized to play at the 2
- he is very good ball handler
- great passer
- about average shooter, hence he needs the ball in his hands in order to maximize his effectiveness on offense

Can he play at the 2 as well? For sure.

[MattyIce]

Agent Rich Paul has notified the New Orleans Pelicans that All-NBA forward Anthony Davis has no intention of signing a contract extension if and when presented and that he has requested a trade, Paul told ESPN on Monday.

Rich Paul to ESPN on a preferred destination for Anthony Davis: "Anthony wants to be traded to a team that allows him the chance to win consistently and compete for a championship."

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1089857935532904449?s=21

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1089859659996033024?s=21

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-celtics/2018/11/26/anthony-davis-kyrie-irving-rose-rule

[Androslav]

Oh-oh...
The thing that gives me hope is that NOLA doesn't have to respect his interests and can wait until the offseason when they could get more (better) offers.
And I was bashing him about "C's want AD" just an hour ago
Silly me.

[gouki88]

Huge news. And it begins.

I would assume New Orleans is willing to hold off on dealing him until the summer, in which case we are 100% in the game.

[Tr1boy]

Oh-oh...
The thing that gives me hope is that NOLA doesn't have to respect his interests and can wait until the offseason when they could get more (better) offers.

Makes no sense

NO will trade him between now and trade deadline to the highest bidder. But also a team AD will resign with

[Roy H.]

Huge news. And it begins.

I would assume New Orleans is willing to hold off on dealing him until the summer, in which case we are 100% in the game.

I’m hoping the Pels agree. Davis doesn’t have much leverage to force a trade in the next 10 days. He’s already sitting out, and even if he threatened surgery or something similar, that would aid NOP in tanking.

Any offer for him now will still be there this summer.