Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)  (Read 413206 times)

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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1275 on: April 15, 2019, 09:51:45 PM »

Offline Moranis

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A result that would definitely make me go mental:

Everyone we love dies.  Robin Arryn sucking his thumb in the vale during all the fighting sits on the iron throne.

I'm doing a Game of Thrones death pool with some friends and Robyn is my mostly joke answer to the tiebreaker of who winds up on the throne (my real answer is no one).


I keep thinking about the "three dragon riders" stuff that was played up a lot in the books and talked about here. We know who they are now, but instead of 3 dragons vs none it looks like 2 on 1. But what if it's more like 1 vs 1 vs 1? Jon and Dany in conflict while battling the Night King. We've seen how she reacts when she's really challenged - mass crucifixions, dragon fire, etc. I think she's going to react very badly when she finds out Jon has the real claim and probably do something of a villain turn. Seriously doubt she'll become the Night Queen or whatever as some are speculating but they're definitely setting them up for a conflict and I don't think there's much chance both she and Jon survive. It's really a question of if he takes her out out of love (like in the Prince Who Was Promised legend) or in a fight.
Bran could still be a rider. In fact the way last season ended you could have interpreted Bran's eyes as him really warging into Viseron and bringing the wall down.  He would have presumably done that because he knows how and where to kill the Night King and the wall had to come down for that to happen.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1276 on: April 15, 2019, 09:55:32 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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My expectation for the rest of the season is episode 2 is the final preparations for the battle with the Night King.  Episode 3, is the battle with the dead.  I actually expect the humans to defeat the Night King in the north and in that episode and believe that to get it done, Jon will have to fulfill the prophecy and kill Dany to do it.  Episode 4 will be mostly battle aftermath, regrouping, and the march south to take on Cersei.  Episode 5 and probably into Episode 6 will be the battles for Kings Landing and I believe that Jamie will kill Cersei fulfilling that prophecy.  The rest of Episode 6 will be the final aftermath and having everyone alive ending up back where they belong.  I expect all of the remaining Starks to live, though wouldn't be surprised if Bran and/or Sansa end up perishing.  I think Jamie is the only Lannister left (ends up with Brienne ruling Casterly Rock), though could see Tyrion making it through.  I think Gendry survives and takes over his fathers kingdom and probably wed to Arya.  I think Samwell ends up taking over his father's kingdom and basically running that whole part of the world as Jon's hand of the king.


Of course, I've probably got this all wrong, but that is the fun.

I think there is not much bitterness in that ending scenario..
Its been well documented that the ending is going to be so unexpected that some people will go mental and not accept it....or so ive heard.

I think Jon dies sacrificing himself while killing the Night king , Arya will probably be the only Stark left. The imp definitely lives and Jaime kills Cersei.
Bran I think will go back in the past in a sort of twist that will keep us guessing before the end credits roll out.
you don't think Jon killing Dany will cause bitterness?

I think Dani will kill Jon.
Dani isn't essential to the story.  Jon is.

Dani can die and it will not break the storytelling.  If Jon died, it would objectively be poor writing since he's the central arc of the whole thing.
yep. This is the story of Aegon Targaryen the 6th of his name
Yep.  Dani served her purpose of introducing dragons and giving context to the Targaryen aspect of Jon's life, but this is very much his story. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1277 on: April 15, 2019, 10:29:19 PM »

Offline footey

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My expectation for the rest of the season is episode 2 is the final preparations for the battle with the Night King.  Episode 3, is the battle with the dead.  I actually expect the humans to defeat the Night King in the north and in that episode and believe that to get it done, Jon will have to fulfill the prophecy and kill Dany to do it.  Episode 4 will be mostly battle aftermath, regrouping, and the march south to take on Cersei.  Episode 5 and probably into Episode 6 will be the battles for Kings Landing and I believe that Jamie will kill Cersei fulfilling that prophecy.  The rest of Episode 6 will be the final aftermath and having everyone alive ending up back where they belong.  I expect all of the remaining Starks to live, though wouldn't be surprised if Bran and/or Sansa end up perishing.  I think Jamie is the only Lannister left (ends up with Brienne ruling Casterly Rock), though could see Tyrion making it through.  I think Gendry survives and takes over his fathers kingdom and probably wed to Arya.  I think Samwell ends up taking over his father's kingdom and basically running that whole part of the world as Jon's hand of the king.


Of course, I've probably got this all wrong, but that is the fun.

I think there is not much bitterness in that ending scenario..
Its been well documented that the ending is going to be so unexpected that some people will go mental and not accept it....or so ive heard.

I think Jon dies sacrificing himself while killing the Night king , Arya will probably be the only Stark left. The imp definitely lives and Jaime kills Cersei.
Bran I think will go back in the past in a sort of twist that will keep us guessing before the end credits roll out.
you don't think Jon killing Dany will cause bitterness?

I think Dani will kill Jon.
Dani isn't essential to the story.  Jon is.

Dani can die and it will not break the storytelling.  If Jon died, it would objectively be poor writing since he's the central arc of the whole thing.
yep. This is the story of Aegon Targaryen the 6th of his name
Yep.  Dani served her purpose of introducing dragons and giving context to the Targaryen aspect of Jon's life, but this is very much his story.

Arguably a sexist interpretation.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1278 on: April 15, 2019, 10:45:30 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Bran could still be a rider. In fact the way last season ended you could have interpreted Bran's eyes as him really warging into Viseron and bringing the wall down.  He would have presumably done that because he knows how and where to kill the Night King and the wall had to come down for that to happen.

I didn't read it that way, but sure anything's possible. He's not a Targaryen or necromancer and would need a superpowered version of his old saddle, so it doesn't seem too likely,  His warging is kinda just hanging out there for a while though, wonder if he will take over a dragon at some point.

yep. This is the story of Aegon Targaryen the 6th of his name
Yep.  Dani served her purpose of introducing dragons and giving context to the Targaryen aspect of Jon's life, but this is very much his story. 

And he's been failing upward for years in a universe that normally brutally punishes it. He's the Prince that was Promised, his is the Song of Ice and Fire, etc, etc, titles, titles.


Wonder what role Sam will play going forward, because he's widely considered GRRM's self-insert character. Maybe he's already had his big moment giving Jon the truth about his parents but I feel like he's got more in store.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1279 on: April 15, 2019, 11:20:10 PM »

Offline Sophomore

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My expectation for the rest of the season is episode 2 is the final preparations for the battle with the Night King.  Episode 3, is the battle with the dead.  I actually expect the humans to defeat the Night King in the north and in that episode and believe that to get it done, Jon will have to fulfill the prophecy and kill Dany to do it.  Episode 4 will be mostly battle aftermath, regrouping, and the march south to take on Cersei.  Episode 5 and probably into Episode 6 will be the battles for Kings Landing and I believe that Jamie will kill Cersei fulfilling that prophecy.  The rest of Episode 6 will be the final aftermath and having everyone alive ending up back where they belong.  I expect all of the remaining Starks to live, though wouldn't be surprised if Bran and/or Sansa end up perishing.  I think Jamie is the only Lannister left (ends up with Brienne ruling Casterly Rock), though could see Tyrion making it through.  I think Gendry survives and takes over his fathers kingdom and probably wed to Arya.  I think Samwell ends up taking over his father's kingdom and basically running that whole part of the world as Jon's hand of the king.


Of course, I've probably got this all wrong, but that is the fun.

I think there is not much bitterness in that ending scenario..
Its been well documented that the ending is going to be so unexpected that some people will go mental and not accept it....or so ive heard.

I think Jon dies sacrificing himself while killing the Night king , Arya will probably be the only Stark left. The imp definitely lives and Jaime kills Cersei.
Bran I think will go back in the past in a sort of twist that will keep us guessing before the end credits roll out.
you don't think Jon killing Dany will cause bitterness?

I think Dani will kill Jon.
Dani isn't essential to the story.  Jon is.

Dani can die and it will not break the storytelling.  If Jon died, it would objectively be poor writing since he's the central arc of the whole thing.

Who appeared to be the focus of season 1? I'd say Ned Stark, out to thwart the Lannisters. Then it was mostly a struggle between Robb and the Lannisters, with vital subplots that affected the outcome (Catelyn's love for her daughters that freed Jaime; Robb's tragic decision to marry; the murderous fights among the Lannisters, etc., etc.).

What's been the central focus since the red wedding? You could certainly say it's the rise of Jon. You could also say it's the rise of Dany, or even Cersei triumphing over her many enemies as she continued being vicious but became smarter/more deadly about it (hello, high Sparrow!). Then there are more side plots than we can count.

We do need to know what happens to Jon - that's a good point, recalling how deep and how far back his arc goes. But it just seems too pat, too similar to the traditions of the epic convention that Martin wants to upend, for Jon to sit the throne in triumph.

The one ending I feel reasonably sure we should not get is the one that Varys, Tyrion, and the Onion Knight contemplated from the battlements of Winterfell: Jon and Dany vanquishing the enemies of the realm and living happily ever after. It just can't end that way, unless Martin sold out completely to fan service (likely with HBO twisting his arm). Only question is how dark it's going to be...

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1280 on: April 16, 2019, 02:26:55 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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My expectation for the rest of the season is episode 2 is the final preparations for the battle with the Night King.  Episode 3, is the battle with the dead.  I actually expect the humans to defeat the Night King in the north and in that episode and believe that to get it done, Jon will have to fulfill the prophecy and kill Dany to do it.  Episode 4 will be mostly battle aftermath, regrouping, and the march south to take on Cersei.  Episode 5 and probably into Episode 6 will be the battles for Kings Landing and I believe that Jamie will kill Cersei fulfilling that prophecy.  The rest of Episode 6 will be the final aftermath and having everyone alive ending up back where they belong.  I expect all of the remaining Starks to live, though wouldn't be surprised if Bran and/or Sansa end up perishing.  I think Jamie is the only Lannister left (ends up with Brienne ruling Casterly Rock), though could see Tyrion making it through.  I think Gendry survives and takes over his fathers kingdom and probably wed to Arya.  I think Samwell ends up taking over his father's kingdom and basically running that whole part of the world as Jon's hand of the king.


Of course, I've probably got this all wrong, but that is the fun.

I think there is not much bitterness in that ending scenario..
Its been well documented that the ending is going to be so unexpected that some people will go mental and not accept it....or so ive heard.

I think Jon dies sacrificing himself while killing the Night king , Arya will probably be the only Stark left. The imp definitely lives and Jaime kills Cersei.
Bran I think will go back in the past in a sort of twist that will keep us guessing before the end credits roll out.
you don't think Jon killing Dany will cause bitterness?

I think Dani will kill Jon.
Dani isn't essential to the story.  Jon is.

Dani can die and it will not break the storytelling.  If Jon died, it would objectively be poor writing since he's the central arc of the whole thing.
I'll take almost any ending over Jon triumphing.  I don't see Jon as the central arc.  The central arc is the contest for the Iron Throne and Jon has played essentially no roll in that until now while Dany has been a major player. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1281 on: April 16, 2019, 03:21:22 AM »

Online tazzmaniac

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I don't see how Jon killing Dani works. The Unsullied are pledged to Dany. The Dothraki are pledged to Dany. The dragons are bonded with Dany. Tyrion is pledged to Dany. Even Jon himself is pledged to Dany now. If Jon kills Dany, all hell would break loose. It would also be against his character. Even breaking his pledge would be. It would also go against his focus on stopping the Night King and the dead rather than who sits on the Iron Throne.

In season 7, when the White Walker was killed and a bunch of the dead with him collapsed, they speculated that killing the Night King might destroy all the dead. I expect that the dead will be winning the battle and when things are bleakest either Jon or Dany will sacrifice themselves to kill the Night King probably in a dragon battle where another dragon is lost. I could see either doing so but it is more in Jon's nature to do so. 

As for Jamie killing Cersei, I'd be surprised if that occurs. He's on the "becoming good" trendline. Killing Cersei would also kill his unborn child. Hard to see that happening even if Cersei were to succeed with having Tyrion killed. I'd speculate that Sansa or Sansa/Arya would be responsible for Cersei's demise probably with the inevitable Hound kills Mountain precursor fight. Now Arya could be wearing Jamie's face.   
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 04:27:25 AM by tazzmaniac »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1282 on: April 16, 2019, 05:52:43 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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I don't know how things will go because of books having so much difference right now. Do they do Faegon using Strickland as a last twist? If so Id put my money on him ruling and marrying Sansa. How's that for a song of ice and fire lol

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1283 on: April 16, 2019, 06:09:57 AM »

Offline Moranis

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My expectation for the rest of the season is episode 2 is the final preparations for the battle with the Night King.  Episode 3, is the battle with the dead.  I actually expect the humans to defeat the Night King in the north and in that episode and believe that to get it done, Jon will have to fulfill the prophecy and kill Dany to do it.  Episode 4 will be mostly battle aftermath, regrouping, and the march south to take on Cersei.  Episode 5 and probably into Episode 6 will be the battles for Kings Landing and I believe that Jamie will kill Cersei fulfilling that prophecy.  The rest of Episode 6 will be the final aftermath and having everyone alive ending up back where they belong.  I expect all of the remaining Starks to live, though wouldn't be surprised if Bran and/or Sansa end up perishing.  I think Jamie is the only Lannister left (ends up with Brienne ruling Casterly Rock), though could see Tyrion making it through.  I think Gendry survives and takes over his fathers kingdom and probably wed to Arya.  I think Samwell ends up taking over his father's kingdom and basically running that whole part of the world as Jon's hand of the king.


Of course, I've probably got this all wrong, but that is the fun.

I think there is not much bitterness in that ending scenario..
Its been well documented that the ending is going to be so unexpected that some people will go mental and not accept it....or so ive heard.

I think Jon dies sacrificing himself while killing the Night king , Arya will probably be the only Stark left. The imp definitely lives and Jaime kills Cersei.
Bran I think will go back in the past in a sort of twist that will keep us guessing before the end credits roll out.
you don't think Jon killing Dany will cause bitterness?

I think Dani will kill Jon.
Dani isn't essential to the story.  Jon is.

Dani can die and it will not break the storytelling.  If Jon died, it would objectively be poor writing since he's the central arc of the whole thing.

Who appeared to be the focus of season 1? I'd say Ned Stark, out to thwart the Lannisters. Then it was mostly a struggle between Robb and the Lannisters, with vital subplots that affected the outcome (Catelyn's love for her daughters that freed Jaime; Robb's tragic decision to marry; the murderous fights among the Lannisters, etc., etc.).

What's been the central focus since the red wedding? You could certainly say it's the rise of Jon. You could also say it's the rise of Dany, or even Cersei triumphing over her many enemies as she continued being vicious but became smarter/more deadly about it (hello, high Sparrow!). Then there are more side plots than we can count.

We do need to know what happens to Jon - that's a good point, recalling how deep and how far back his arc goes. But it just seems too pat, too similar to the traditions of the epic convention that Martin wants to upend, for Jon to sit the throne in triumph.

The one ending I feel reasonably sure we should not get is the one that Varys, Tyrion, and the Onion Knight contemplated from the battlements of Winterfell: Jon and Dany vanquishing the enemies of the realm and living happily ever after. It just can't end that way, unless Martin sold out completely to fan service (likely with HBO twisting his arm). Only question is how dark it's going to be...
Robb is barely in the books.  The show added all of that stuff because the actor was very popular and they wanted the Red Wedding to have a greater effect. 

Reading the books, this is a story about Jon.  Everything that happens sets up for him to be the prophecy.  Every other character (even the major ones) are there to get Jon to where he needs to be.  The only other logical conclusion is Jamie, but he isn't prominent enough in the books for this to be his story.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1284 on: April 16, 2019, 06:11:55 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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My expectation for the rest of the season is episode 2 is the final preparations for the battle with the Night King.  Episode 3, is the battle with the dead.  I actually expect the humans to defeat the Night King in the north and in that episode and believe that to get it done, Jon will have to fulfill the prophecy and kill Dany to do it.  Episode 4 will be mostly battle aftermath, regrouping, and the march south to take on Cersei.  Episode 5 and probably into Episode 6 will be the battles for Kings Landing and I believe that Jamie will kill Cersei fulfilling that prophecy.  The rest of Episode 6 will be the final aftermath and having everyone alive ending up back where they belong.  I expect all of the remaining Starks to live, though wouldn't be surprised if Bran and/or Sansa end up perishing.  I think Jamie is the only Lannister left (ends up with Brienne ruling Casterly Rock), though could see Tyrion making it through.  I think Gendry survives and takes over his fathers kingdom and probably wed to Arya.  I think Samwell ends up taking over his father's kingdom and basically running that whole part of the world as Jon's hand of the king.


Of course, I've probably got this all wrong, but that is the fun.

I think there is not much bitterness in that ending scenario..
Its been well documented that the ending is going to be so unexpected that some people will go mental and not accept it....or so ive heard.

I think Jon dies sacrificing himself while killing the Night king , Arya will probably be the only Stark left. The imp definitely lives and Jaime kills Cersei.
Bran I think will go back in the past in a sort of twist that will keep us guessing before the end credits roll out.
you don't think Jon killing Dany will cause bitterness?

I think Dani will kill Jon.
Dani isn't essential to the story.  Jon is.

Dani can die and it will not break the storytelling.  If Jon died, it would objectively be poor writing since he's the central arc of the whole thing.
yep. This is the story of Aegon Targaryen the 6th of his name
Yep.  Dani served her purpose of introducing dragons and giving context to the Targaryen aspect of Jon's life, but this is very much his story.

Arguably a sexist interpretation.
Made me think we need Dani riding Ghost episode 2 lol

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1285 on: April 16, 2019, 06:18:14 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I don't see how Jon killing Dani works. The Unsullied are pledged to Dany. The Dothraki are pledged to Dany. The dragons are bonded with Dany. Tyrion is pledged to Dany. Even Jon himself is pledged to Dany now. If Jon kills Dany, all hell would break loose. It would also be against his character. Even breaking his pledge would be. It would also go against his focus on stopping the Night King and the dead rather than who sits on the Iron Throne.

In season 7, when the White Walker was killed and a bunch of the dead with him collapsed, they speculated that killing the Night King might destroy all the dead. I expect that the dead will be winning the battle and when things are bleakest either Jon or Dany will sacrifice themselves to kill the Night King probably in a dragon battle where another dragon is lost. I could see either doing so but it is more in Jon's nature to do so. 

As for Jamie killing Cersei, I'd be surprised if that occurs. He's on the "becoming good" trendline. Killing Cersei would also kill his unborn child. Hard to see that happening even if Cersei were to succeed with having Tyrion killed. I'd speculate that Sansa or Sansa/Arya would be responsible for Cersei's demise probably with the inevitable Hound kills Mountain precursor fight. Now Arya could be wearing Jamie's face.   
Dany is ruthless and one tracked.  I could absolutely see a scenario where she goes crazy and in her quest to kill the Night King starts killing innocents along the way, giving Jon no other option.  Jon is also willing to do anything to protect the north and his people.  If he has to kill her to fulfill a prophecy that will allow him to kill the Night King, he would. 

I seriously doubt Cersei is pregnant.  I think she was just manipulating Jamie and Tyrion.  That is what she does.  And again, Martin loves prophecies, the one with Cersei says her little brother kills her.  Now the show could deviate from the books in that regard, but it would be a pretty big departure.  And it absolutely would fit with Jamie's redemption story to kill his Mad Sister.  Much like he killed the Mad King when he needed to go to protect the greater good.  At his center, Jamie is a good man that will do anything to protect the greater good (for awhile to him his sister was the greater good). 
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1286 on: April 16, 2019, 06:36:16 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I don't see Jon as the central arc.

So they just announced him as the one true king and you think this?    I own a castle in Westeros that I will sell you cheap maybe $100 dollars  JK.   They just hit you significant information and you think this, you my friend either have a crush on Dani or your so biases against Jon that your beyond logic.

Perhaps you just think that they added that or had his backstory for no reason?  They just brought him back from the dead for no purpose.   A Song of Fire and Ice is the theme of the books and Jon is that mix of fire and ice.  You can think whatever you want, and express, just expect to get challenged with comments like you made.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 06:41:24 AM by Celtics4ever »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1287 on: April 16, 2019, 06:44:26 AM »

Offline A Future of Stevens

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So on the Jon kills Dany rumors: in a way he has already killed his love for the prophecy. He escapes the hunting party, and betrays Yigrette. While it isnt his arrow that fells her, he feels that it was his because her death was a direct result of his actions. In the "Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night's Watch" interpretation of Jon being AA reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his love, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it (the Nights watch.)

Just my two cents from a huge nerd who has read the books too many times.

PS- I know the show has diverted in a major way from the books, but this Dany stuff has been too quick of a development in comparison. To the rest of the series.
#JKJB

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1288 on: April 16, 2019, 08:26:23 AM »

Offline bopna

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So on the Jon kills Dany rumors: in a way he has already killed his love for the prophecy. He escapes the hunting party, and betrays Yigrette. While it isnt his arrow that fells her, he feels that it was his because her death was a direct result of his actions. In the "Lightbringer = the Sword in the Darkness = The Night's Watch" interpretation of Jon being AA reborn, this fits well as the sacrificial tempering: He directs his Lightbringer to kill his love, which in turn allows him to grasp command of it (the Nights watch.)

Just my two cents from a huge nerd who has read the books too many times.

PS- I know the show has diverted in a major way from the books, but this Dany stuff has been too quick of a development in comparison. To the rest of the series.

I really think that arc of Jon killing Dani is out the window now... Why because its never been discussed. How is it going to happen when in less than 36 hrs the Night King approaches and the battle for Winter fell begins.. Many of the living will die and up to now the only thing that Jon knows how to kill them White Walkers is by Dragon glass or by Valeryian steel but Jon does even know if it really will kill the Night King... No one knows because no one has tried yet.
Even Mellisandei has not discussed this with Jon and the battle has already began.

My take is they lose this battle and will be forced to retreat and regroup..Jon perhaps will strike the Night King with his sword but the Night King does not die but instead will defeat their forces.. It will suddenly strike fear in Jon realizing that even his sword could not kill the Night king and will call his banner to retreat or escape.
I have no idea but up until now even Bran has not said anything on how to defeat the NK.. He of all people should know but is still mum about the Azor ahai or Prince that was promised business.. He couldn't even tell Jon bout his true parentage...
It's all going to be interesting but  yes, this series has definitely diverted away from the books in that aspect.. I have no fckin idea how they'd end this thing in less than 3 episodes if they do not kill the NK in ep 3.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1289 on: April 16, 2019, 08:34:32 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Oh man, just had what seems like a pretty plausible thought: What if the Night King raises all the dead in Winterfell's vault?  Now I want to see Jon finally get to meet his mother  :D