Out-Tanking Tankers not realistic, Hawks-like Playoff Experience best option

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

The Hawks don't really strike the fear of God into me. I think we'd give them a hell of a series due to our defensive tenacity. No team wants to be playing against a backcourt defensive duo of Smart and Bradley in the playoffs. Of course they're favored to win and probably would, but I think of us as the 2013 Houston Rockets who gave OKC all they could handle in the first round.

And you know what Houston did that summer? Picked up a superstar in Howard! It's a win-win! 

All this tells me is that you probably don't watch the hawks.

More snarky one-liners, eh?

That you categorically dismiss so many comments and views on here with passive-aggressive one-liners just tells me you must have one hell of an ego on you.

but you have to admit, they are cute. 

meh

[action781]

To everyone who assumes the celtics will get 4-0'd by the Hawks in round 1 is has an awful short memory.

In 2008, the roles of these 2 teams were reversed -- the celtics were a far more dominant team than the 8th seed Hawks they met in the the playoffs.  The celtics were the favorite to win the nba title and the hawks got into the 8 seed with a pathetic 37-45 record.

It's easy to point to the hawks having better players than the celtics have now (while disregarding how far more dominant the celtics were than the current hawks).  The Hawks had Joe Johnson.  Horford was a rookie that season and a sliver of the player you're thinking of now.  Josh Smith I'm convinced is and always has been an empty stat stuffer.  Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby were their next two best players....

We all know the series ended up going to game 7.  And who knows what that experience did for the development of Horford as a player, but I'd say that single series probably served him pretty well early on in his career.  And you're welcome to disagree, but I don't think there's a clear answer.

[D.o.s.]

the 2008 Hawks and the 2013 Rockets were both miles away from the 2014 Celtics.

One anecdotal series featuring the same colored jerseys does nothing to change that.

[action781]

the 2008 Hawks and the 2013 Rockets were both miles away from the 2014 Celtics.

One anecdotal series featuring the same colored jerseys does nothing to change that.

And the 2008 celtics were miles away from the 2014 hawks.

[D.o.s.]

Agreed, but the gap isn't equal, and the transitive quality you're implying doesn't exist.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008_EC1.html

Take a trip down memory lane and look at 'why' the C's gave up three games to the 2008 Hawks -- a team that would have roundly trounced the 2014 Celtics.

The 'We Believe' Golden State Warriors upset Dallas in the first round, why aren't you using that comparison? Because it's not related to what's going on today in the slightest, beyond being two sets of NBA teams in a playoff series? The same is true for the Hawks/Celtics series from '08.

The 2014 Celtics are a garbage team. The 2008 Hawks were an average team hampered by Mike Woodson's coaching expertise. And they lost.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2008.html

The 2013 Bobcats are a better comparison for our team... and they were also a better squad that we are now.

[drogbagarnett]

The Hawks and Cavs would destroy the Celtics in the first round.  4 games, maybe 5.  Not sure what purpose making the playoffs would serve when you are 11 games under .500 and get man handled in the first round.  It would be an absolutely terrible thing to have happen.  Now if Boston goes on some sort of run and finishes the year near .500 and makes the playoffs as the 5 or 6 seed, then sure that is something to think about, but back-dooring into the playoffs with a terrible team because everyone else is terrible is nothing like the Hawks.  And for the record, before the Hawks recent run they were out of the playoffs for 8 straight seasons and the last three years the Hawks have lost in the first round of the playoffs.  I'm not so sure they are the team to strive to be (even with their excellent record and very good team this year).

LOL!!You guys are something else...
Ok so then what do you suggest we do...?
Beat the knicks and Sixers at losing games to get a top 3 draft this year....? Unrealistic!!!
Lose enough games to make sure we dont make the playoffs to secure a potential 10th pick vs 15th pick...?? Is that better than developping our young players...? Showcasing them so other teams see them as good young assets...? I will not bet that we will win a series but i can bet that we will give hell to any of these eastern conf teams and make them sweat to advance...
So unless you can prove me that the 10th pick is significantly better than the 15th pick, I would say our young team is putting a great fight for making the playoff so sit back and enjoy...

[D.o.s.]

The Hawks and Cavs would destroy the Celtics in the first round.  4 games, maybe 5.  Not sure what purpose making the playoffs would serve when you are 11 games under .500 and get man handled in the first round.  It would be an absolutely terrible thing to have happen.  Now if Boston goes on some sort of run and finishes the year near .500 and makes the playoffs as the 5 or 6 seed, then sure that is something to think about, but back-dooring into the playoffs with a terrible team because everyone else is terrible is nothing like the Hawks.  And for the record, before the Hawks recent run they were out of the playoffs for 8 straight seasons and the last three years the Hawks have lost in the first round of the playoffs.  I'm not so sure they are the team to strive to be (even with their excellent record and very good team this year).

LOL!!You guys are something else...
Ok so then what do you suggest we do...?
Beat the knicks and Sixers at losing games to get a top 3 draft this year....? Unrealistic!!!
Lose enough games to make sure we dont make the playoffs to secure a potential 10th pick vs 15th pick...?? Is that better than developping our young players...? Showcasing them so other teams see them as good young assets...? I will not bet that we will win a series but i can bet that we will give hell to any of these eastern conf teams and make them sweat to advance...
So unless you can prove me that the 10th pick is significantly better than the 15th pick, I would say our young team is putting a great fight for making the playoff so sit back and enjoy...

The point isn't that we don't want to see the team in the playoffs, the point is that they're almost certainly going to get stomped if they make it.

As to the 10th and 15th pick, that should be self evident, but:
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/10th-overall/100509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/15th-overall/150509/
http://www.82games.com/barzilai1.htm

Have fun.

[drogbagarnett]

The Hawks don't really strike the fear of God into me. I think we'd give them a hell of a series due to our defensive tenacity. No team wants to be playing against a backcourt defensive duo of Smart and Bradley in the playoffs. Of course they're favored to win and probably would, but I think of us as the 2013 Houston Rockets who gave OKC all they could handle in the first round.

And you know what Houston did that summer? Picked up a superstar in Howard! It's a win-win! 

All this tells me is that you probably don't watch the hawks.

More snarky one-liners, eh?

That you categorically dismiss so many comments and views on here with passive-aggressive one-liners just tells me you must have one hell of an ego on you.

We'd get 4-0'd or 4-1'd by the Hawks, because our team is awful and their team is not. If you think otherwise, I'd wager that I'm giving your comments about as much credit as they deserve.

Sorry you get so upset by brevity.

That is why I like sport!!!
You can have all the theories and better seeds and talent but once the game starts it's 5 guys vs guys on the floor and weird things can happen...

[D.o.s.]

That's definitely true. Upsets do happen. I'm just sick of the C's being a bad team, because I'm impatient, and missing the playoffs this year would seem to offer the most benefit towards the Celtics becoming a good team as soon as possible.

I do not put a lot of stock in playoff experience for a team that's being built to be redesigned on the fly.

[Celtics4ever]

It's easy to point to the hawks having better players than the celtics have now (while disregarding how far more dominant the celtics were than the current hawks).  The Hawks had Joe Johnson.  Horford was a rookie that season and a sliver of the player you're thinking of now.  Josh Smith I'm convinced is and always has been an empty stat stuffer.  Marvin Williams and Mike Bibby were their next two best players....

They are very different, we have no veterans for instance.  Horford was a rookie, Joe Johnson was in his prime and Josh Smith was a matchup nightmare.   We don't have any guys that are of that ilk.  I think your comparison fails when placed under the microscope of logic.

Who is our best player, not even close to 08 Joe Johnson who averaged 21.7 points a game.  That empty staff stuffer averaged 17 PPG and 8 RPG and 2.8 BPG hardly empty stats.  Horford did 10 PPG and 9 RPG a lot more solid than any of our rookies.  Bibby and Williams scored 14PPG each and   Childress 11 PPG.  Still more balanced scoring than our present crew not to mention nice garbage play off the bench from Pachulia and Johnson.   They shot 46.7% as a team as well and .38% from trey land.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/2008.html

Right now AB is scoring 14 PPG and IT is scoring 20 ppg.   Jerebko is averaging 10 and Bass 9 there is a big drop off compared to the 08 Hawks.   We are shooting .445% as a team  and .331% from try land.  Sully and KO would have helped some on the PPG but they are out.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2015.html

The sum of all this data is your comparison is a very poor one.

[drogbagarnett]

The Hawks are in the top 5 for team defense this year, and they're holding teams to the third lowest average score this season. They're a better defensive team than an offensive one, but they're just barely outside the top 5 in overall offense, sitting at 6th in offensive rating and 7th in points per game.

The Celtics, meanwhile, are currently allowing more PPG than all but five teams in the league. They're currently in the midst of running the "Philadelphia classic" on offense, pushing the pace because the players suck, but the conventional wisdom of "the game slows down in the playoffs" is true, and you can't run your way to wins in the postseason unless you're the George Karl Denver Nuggets.


You're welcome to agree with Potter, but outside of mostly baseless conjecture and unlikely hypotheticals:

IMHO, if we can figure a good scheme to slow their 3pt shooters we can steal a couple games.  Also don't count out Thomas from dropping 30 and stealing a game all by himself. 

You don't have much support for your position to be taken seriously.

The only thing that a playoff run would do is net the franchise some extra income from playoff tickets. It'd be like the Knicks series but a million times more painful to watch.

If it's that painful for you to watch our current guys fight and give their all then dont watch and pray that we finish outside of the playoffs so you can be happy with the 12th draft pick...

[Cman]

As to the 10th and 15th pick, that should be self evident, but:
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/10th-overall/100509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/15th-overall/150509/
http://www.82games.com/barzilai1.htm

Well, more like the 12th versus the 17th:
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/12th-overall/120509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/17th-overall/170509/

Solid bench players picked at both spots.
Just so everyone is clear here, that is, realistically, what we are comparing when picking at #12 versus #17. A slightly better chance at a solid bench player versus a slightly worse chance at a solid bench player.

[drogbagarnett]

A winning culture isn't developed by getting swept in the playoffs. Its developed by drafting ballers

Drafting them at the 12th spot vs 15th spot...
LoooL!
If the winning culture was that easy I know a few teams that would be considered having it already...

[D.o.s.]

The Hawks are in the top 5 for team defense this year, and they're holding teams to the third lowest average score this season. They're a better defensive team than an offensive one, but they're just barely outside the top 5 in overall offense, sitting at 6th in offensive rating and 7th in points per game.

The Celtics, meanwhile, are currently allowing more PPG than all but five teams in the league. They're currently in the midst of running the "Philadelphia classic" on offense, pushing the pace because the players suck, but the conventional wisdom of "the game slows down in the playoffs" is true, and you can't run your way to wins in the postseason unless you're the George Karl Denver Nuggets.


You're welcome to agree with Potter, but outside of mostly baseless conjecture and unlikely hypotheticals:

IMHO, if we can figure a good scheme to slow their 3pt shooters we can steal a couple games.  Also don't count out Thomas from dropping 30 and stealing a game all by himself. 

You don't have much support for your position to be taken seriously.

The only thing that a playoff run would do is net the franchise some extra income from playoff tickets. It'd be like the Knicks series but a million times more painful to watch.

If it's that painful for you to watch our current guys fight and give their all then dont watch and pray that we finish outside of the playoffs so you can be happy with the 12th draft pick...

I'm glad you're willing to dictate how I should express my fandom.

[Moranis]

As to the 10th and 15th pick, that should be self evident, but:
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/10th-overall/100509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/15th-overall/150509/
http://www.82games.com/barzilai1.htm

Well, more like the 12th versus the 17th:
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/12th-overall/120509/
http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/17th-overall/170509/

Solid bench players picked at both spots.
Just so everyone is clear here, that is, realistically, what we are comparing when picking at #12 versus #17. A slightly better chance at a solid bench player versus a slightly worse chance at a solid bench player.

um Boston is currently the 9th worst team in the league.  If Boston makes the playoffs it will almost certainly be as the 8th seed in the east, which is the 15th pick.  10 and 15 is much closer to reality than 12 and 17.  10 might get us a guy like WCS, Porzingis, or Turner, none of which are going to be available at 15.