CelticsStrong
Around the League => The Draft => Topic started by: KG Living Legend on January 20, 2017, 06:25:06 AM
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
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Great article, TP for the link. I watched the first half of the UCLA game last night and it was amazing. 35 points in the first 10 minutes, just an all out blitzkrieg. I don't know if Ball is the best prospect or player, but he sure is the most fun to watch.
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
Ooh, ooh! Pick me! Pick me!... ;D ;D ;D
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
That's pretty cynical, thinking the kid is acting that way in pickup games to influence NBA teams. Let's remember these are 19 year old kids, and Ball at least seems to love playing basketball. Let's hope he ends up with a team that let's him use his talents and not some control freak coach.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
The middle brother won't be as good as Lonzo. It's too early to tell on the youngest one.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
The middle brother won't be as good as Lonzo. It's too early to tell on the youngest one.
IMO it's not even close. Lonzo is the basketball prodigy from heaven. Like Rob Gronkowski is.
Lonzo is also the tallest.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
The middle brother won't be as good as Lonzo. It's too early to tell on the youngest one.
IMO it's not even close. Lonzo is the basketball prodigy from heaven. Like Rob Gronkowski is.
Lonzo is also the tallest.
And you are the poster from heaven.
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
That's pretty cynical, thinking the kid is acting that way in pickup games to influence NBA teams. Let's remember these are 19 year old kids, and Ball at least seems to love playing basketball. Let's hope he ends up with a team that let's him use his talents and not some control freak coach.
Cough, cough, Rick Carlisle... Cough, cough...
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
Not sure whether it's intended but this could also be used as a jab at Fultz, who has seemingly been unable to make the guys around him not suck.
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
Not sure whether it's intended but this could also be used as a jab at Fultz, who has seemingly been unable to make the guys around him not suck.
If you swap Fultz and Ball, UCLA would still be great and Washington would still suck.
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This is not very pleasing to my ears. It's like he dismiss the importance of a good teammate. By the sound of it, he's more of a "me" player than a "we" player. Its more of an arrogance than confidence.
Very different than "I want to lock down Lebron James" or "I want to help this team to get better" approach. If he's doing it for PR, then its a bad promotional stunt.
He may have a flashy stats, especially on assist. But will he sacrifice his game for the better of the team?
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This is not very pleasing to my ears. It's like he dismiss the importance of a good teammate. By the sound of it, he's more of a "me" player than a "we" player. Its more of an arrogance than confidence.
Very different than "I want to lock down Lebron James" or "I want to help this team to get better" approach. If he's doing it for PR, then its a bad promotional stunt.
He may have a flashy stats, especially on assist. But will he sacrifice his game for the better of the team?
Funny the way we see things, I get the exact opposite impression.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
The middle brother won't be as good as Lonzo. It's too early to tell on the youngest one.
Maybe not, but that Chino HIlls high school team also had their cousin (also a Ball), and a lot of other talent including a 6'7" freshman named Onyeka Okongwu who could also be a pro someday (he is now a 6'9" sophomore that already has offers from UCLA and USC) and a couple of other kids playing this year at lower level colleges. I was merely commenting that while Lonzo may like playing with scrubs in pick up games, his high school was absolutely loaded with talent and not just his brothers and cousin.
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Big shout out to Footney for further proving what I already knew. That can Lonzo Ball is a future superstar. Chad Ford polled GM's to find out who is a tier 1 player in this draft.
Guess what? The NBA GM's agree with me.
Tier 1 (Potential superstars)
Lonzo Ball, PG, UCLA
Markelle Fultz, PG, Washington
Only eight players have been ranked in this slot since we started doing this in 2009: Blake Griffin, John Wall, Anthony Davis, Andrew Wiggins, Joel Embiid, Jabari Parker, Karl-Anthony Towns and Ben Simmons.
That's pretty elite company.
One of the top Ten players in the last eight years. Yes. The kid is going to be a Superstar.
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He doesn't play any defense and can't get to the rim...
I like Lonzo, but I think he's better as a 2nd option than as the guy who initiates the offense.
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
what????
people disagree with you, not because Ball isnt a good, but because you make him out to be some diety with Steph Currys shooting ability and Jason Kidds "ability".
Steph Curry is the greatest shooter of all time and Jason Kidd is a 10 time all star who led the league in assists 5 times and made 9 all defense teams, and 6 all-nba teams.
Dont tell me the guy who isnt even the best prospect in his class has the "ability" of one of the best defensive and playmaking and rebounding gaurds of all time along with the shooting of the best shooter of all time.
If hes that good than whats Fultz?
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Looked pretty bad over the last part of the Arizona game today. He struggled to be effective against an aggressive, athletic Arizona defense.
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If we take Ball within the top 2 picks I will be very p---ed. The guy is a bust waiting to happen. Bar none Fultz is the best player in the draft and it shouldn't be a question of who we draft at 1 if we get the pick.
If we get 2 we take either Tatum or trade it
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another Lonzo Ball thread...... oh brother.
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Looked pretty bad over the last part of the Arizona game today. He struggled to be effective against an aggressive, athletic Arizona defense.
Didn't see game but his stats were impressive. You saying he played bad towards end?
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If we take Ball within the top 2 picks I will be very p---ed. The guy is a bust waiting to happen. Bar none Fultz is the best player in the draft and it shouldn't be a question of who we draft at 1 if we get the pick.
If we get 2 we take either Tatum or trade it
Most GMs disagree with your assessment. Think I have more faith in their view.
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Looked pretty bad over the last part of the Arizona game today. He struggled to be effective against an aggressive, athletic Arizona defense.
Didn't see game but his stats were impressive. You saying he played bad towards end?
He didn't impress me at the end. I tuned in, saw his stats, and thought, "Man, he must be going off. This should be good."
But he didn't do anything of note over the last 10 minutes of the game. He had a few turnovers and generally looked like the Arizona defense had him out of rhythm.
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Looked pretty bad over the last part of the Arizona game today. He struggled to be effective against an aggressive, athletic Arizona defense.
Didn't see game but his stats were impressive. You saying he played bad towards end?
Overall he was pretty awesome again. Set a career high in points. Shot it well. Made plays all game long.
They coach for Arizona is top notch. UCLA is showing their weaknesses against top team's. TJ leaf played bad and they need him.
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If we take Ball within the top 2 picks I will be very p---ed. The guy is a bust waiting to happen. Bar none Fultz is the best player in the draft and it shouldn't be a question of who we draft at 1 if we get the pick.
If we get 2 we take either Tatum or trade it
Most GMs disagree with your assessment. Think I have more faith in their view.
What if Danny took none of them?
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.
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24 points
8 Assists
6 Rebounds
4 for 8 from three
10 for 15 from the field
Ball today vs Arizona
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Evan Turner is probably his floor...
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.
Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!
You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.
Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship. Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.
Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI
Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.
In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:
Fox 20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs
Ball 14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)
Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.
Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.
Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.
I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.
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When people compare him to J Kidd, do they take into account his defensive ability? Because Kidd was dominant defensively as well. Is Ball a dominant defensive player? Or are people just talking about passing ability?
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I heard this song before.
I remember people comparing Okafor to Tim Duncan.
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I just hate that the top of this class are 2 guards...wow just what we need...a logjam at the guard position...booooo
Superstar potentials or not we need to GO BIG...unfortunately the bigs in this draft are as soft as Olynyk.
Wake me up when James Harden and Russel Westbrook...both tearing up the league...both guards have won a championship by being the cornerstone.....oh wait Fultz and Ball are not even goin to sniff the kind of ceiling we see from RS and Harden....im sad now.
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.
Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!
You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.
Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship. Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.
Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI
Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.
In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:
Fox 20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs
Ball 14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)
Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.
Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.
Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.
I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.
Fox absolutely raises his teammates games. They're a different team offensively when he's off the court. In yesterday's game against South Carolina, Kentucky had built up about a 20 point lead in the 1st half when Fox left the game with a twisted ankle. The Kentucky offense collapsed and lost most of that lead by half time. Calapari ended up having to call the plays from the sideline to get their half court offense to be functional.
Fox did outplay Ball in their matchup. Fox actually guarded Ball whereas Ball usually wasn't guarding Fox. If Fox could shoot better, he'd definitely be on the level of Ball and Fultz. He's a better athlete and a better defender.
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If we take Ball within the top 2 picks I will be very p---ed. The guy is a bust waiting to happen. Bar none Fultz is the best player in the draft and it shouldn't be a question of who we draft at 1 if we get the pick.
If we get 2 we take either Tatum or trade it
Most GMs disagree with your assessment. Think I have more faith in their view.
Hey hopefully he ends up panning out because I don't root for players to do bad. He struggles defensively, can't create enough for himself to finish around the rim, and overall I don't see it beyond a serviceable starter/role player which is not a hit with 1 overall. I certainly disagree with the Jason Kidd passing with Curry shooting.
That's also fine because GMs also drafted Greg Oden above KD, Sam Bowie above Jordan, took Johnny Flynn and Rubio over Curry, and countless other mistakes.
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Evan Turner is probably his floor...
His floor is much better than Turner's prime. He's the second coming of Kidd. Accept it.
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I'm truly shocked Ball made tier 1. I really like him, but it's more intangibles than the product on the court to be honest. Fultz is way more NBA ready than this kid.
Is there a link to this? I'm having a hard time believing the OP haha. Where is LarBrrd's insight on this. He's the expert on the tiers.
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Evan Turner is probably his floor...
His floor is much better than Turner's prime. He's the second coming of Kidd. Accept it.
Jason Kidd was a much better athlete/defender and a much worse shooter. This is honestly a really dumb comparison.
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When people compare him to J Kidd, do they take into account his defensive ability? Because Kidd was dominant defensively as well. Is Ball a dominant defensive player? Or are people just talking about passing ability?
Kidd's defense and energy level were Superior. No question.
Kidd was at almost 4 SPG. But Ball does get a lot more blocks than Kidd.
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From what I've seen, Ball's defense is great in transition and when he's really locked up 1 on 1 with guys. Excellent at using his length to contest shots. He's also good at getting in passing lanes and getting deflections. On the down side his attention seems to wander and he has a tendency to lose his man when he's off the ball.
I think he's got good upside defensively, but he definitely needs some work.
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was listening to Don Maclean, ex-NBA player and UCLA great. The topic turned to Ball vs Fultz. He said that in his travels he's asked about 8 NBA execs this question and each one selected Fultz. While both have very bright futures, Fultz is by far the favorite
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From what I've seen, Ball's defense is great in transition and when he's really locked up 1 on 1 with guys. Excellent at using his length to contest shots. He's also good at getting in passing lanes and getting deflections. On the down side his attention seems to wander and he has a tendency to lose his man when he's off the ball.
I think he's got good upside defensively, but he definitely needs some work.
He's great at everything in transition for sure, both sides of the ball. But defensively he's a mess on ball when he's guarding guys with any sort of speed and handle.
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.
Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!
You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.
Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship. Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.
Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI
Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.
In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:
Fox 20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs
Ball 14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)
Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.
Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.
Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.
I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.
Fox absolutely raises his teammates games. They're a different team offensively when he's off the court. In yesterday's game against South Carolina, Kentucky had built up about a 20 point lead in the 1st half when Fox left the game with a twisted ankle. The Kentucky offense collapsed and lost most of that lead by half time. Calapari ended up having to call the plays from the sideline to get their half court offense to be functional.
Fox did outplay Ball in their matchup. Fox actually guarded Ball whereas Ball usually wasn't guarding Fox. If Fox could shoot better, he'd definitely be on the level of Ball and Fultz. He's a better athlete and a better defender.
Fox was on Ball less than half the time. Do you know who switched onto Ball..... a lot? Bam. Remember that 3 from downtown Lexington (KY) to end the first half by Ball. That was over Bam.
And Fox may be a better athlete and have the physical tools to be a better defender, but he isn't yet. Steals, blocks and positionallly because of his superior to Fox's court awareness make Ball the better defender right now.
Fox is quicker and more athletic.. Ball is the better basketball player.
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Evan Turner is probably his floor...
I love Turner and what he did in Boston, but honestly Evan Turner's floor after being picked #2 is Evan Turner now.
I would not be happy with Evan Turner with the #2 pick in this draft. Hopefully we either take the right guy or trade the pick for a more 'guaranteed' player.
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"Super elite" - I guess we know that KGLL's true identity is Jay Bilas.
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.
Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!
You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.
Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship. Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.
Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI
Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.
In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:
Fox 20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs
Ball 14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)
Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.
Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.
Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.
I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.
Fox absolutely raises his teammates games. They're a different team offensively when he's off the court. In yesterday's game against South Carolina, Kentucky had built up about a 20 point lead in the 1st half when Fox left the game with a twisted ankle. The Kentucky offense collapsed and lost most of that lead by half time. Calapari ended up having to call the plays from the sideline to get their half court offense to be functional.
Fox did outplay Ball in their matchup. Fox actually guarded Ball whereas Ball usually wasn't guarding Fox. If Fox could shoot better, he'd definitely be on the level of Ball and Fultz. He's a better athlete and a better defender.
Fox was on Ball less than half the time. Do you know who switched onto Ball..... a lot? Bam. Remember that 3 from downtown Lexington (KY) to end the first half by Ball. That was over Bam.
And Fox may be a better athlete and have the physical tools to be a better defender, but he isn't yet. Steals, blocks and positionallly because of his superior to Fox's court awareness make Ball the better defender right now.
Fox is quicker and more athletic.. Ball is the better basketball player.
Bam did get switched onto Ball quite a bit and as I recall Ball wasn't able to do much against him. A guard having to settle for a long 3 when defended by a center isn't something to crow about.
Fox is clearly the better defender. Ball's best defensive plays are when he's off the ball. When UCLA plays Washington, I wouldn't expect to see Ball guarding Fultz much. If he does, Fultz will have a really good game.
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I'd rather have Fultz, he had an incredible game a few days ago against Colorado which pretty much sealed the deal for me. If we could get Fultz and Zizic back next year, were set to contend for the next 10 years
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"Super elite" - I guess we know that KGLL's true identity is Jay Bilas.
Ball also has Super Elite "Length" and "Wingspan"
Not really, just wanted to say that. Shout out to my baby uncle Jay Bilas.
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
He gets eaten alive by anybody with a hint to explosion as a defender. He's long an athletic so he generates turnovers at the college level, but he got absolutely torched vs Fox in the UK game.
Youre talking about the first 10 minutes of that game and one play in particular where Fox broke his ankles. Big deal!
You're not the only one who feels this way (see draftexpress and the breakdown of Ball vs Fox), but I disagree with any notion that Fox dominated Ball in that game.
Ball had a rough first 10 minutes to that game, but then more than righted the ship. Ball, through his leadership and elite court awarenesss, makes players around him better, and did that in that game.
Compare these highlights to that draftexpress vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU90eU2EejI
Fox has yet to show that he can raise teammates games and Fultz hasn't shown that he can do that yet, either.
In the Kentucky game, these were their stats:
Fox 20 pts 2 rb 9 asst 1 steal 0 block 2 TOs
Ball 14 pts 6rb 7 asst 1 steal 1 block 6 TOs (he averages 2.3 TO)
Fox's 20 points came on 8/20 shooting, not too efficient.
Balls 14 points came on 5-12 shooting.
Again, after the first 10 minutes in a very hostile Rupp arena, Ball outplayed Fox.
Fox may be the better athlete, and I think superior to Fultz and Ball in that regard, but both of them are better basketball players than Fox right now.
I'll take the winner/leader, Ball, right now over Fox and Fultz.
Fox absolutely raises his teammates games. They're a different team offensively when he's off the court. In yesterday's game against South Carolina, Kentucky had built up about a 20 point lead in the 1st half when Fox left the game with a twisted ankle. The Kentucky offense collapsed and lost most of that lead by half time. Calapari ended up having to call the plays from the sideline to get their half court offense to be functional.
Fox did outplay Ball in their matchup. Fox actually guarded Ball whereas Ball usually wasn't guarding Fox. If Fox could shoot better, he'd definitely be on the level of Ball and Fultz. He's a better athlete and a better defender.
Fox was on Ball less than half the time. Do you know who switched onto Ball..... a lot? Bam. Remember that 3 from downtown Lexington (KY) to end the first half by Ball. That was over Bam.
And Fox may be a better athlete and have the physical tools to be a better defender, but he isn't yet. Steals, blocks and positionallly because of his superior to Fox's court awareness make Ball the better defender right now.
Fox is quicker and more athletic.. Ball is the better basketball player.
Bam did get switched onto Ball quite a bit and as I recall Ball wasn't able to do much against him. A guard having to settle for a long 3 when defended by a center isn't something to crow about.
Fox is clearly the better defender. Ball's best defensive plays are when he's off the ball. When UCLA plays Washington, I wouldn't expect to see Ball guarding Fultz much. If he does, Fultz will have a really good game.
I'm looking forward to that match-up too (Feb 4th in Seattle and March 1st at Pauley), but I'm not sure how much it will tell us about either. Ball has so much more talent around him, that it's almost a lose-lose for him. For Fultz, his team is so crappy, that it'll be a win-win.
At least when UCLA won at Rupp, talent-wise, they were closely matched. What impressed me about Ball and UCLA that game was their composure playing at Rupp. That place is like a torture chamber and UCLA snapped a 42 game KY win streak there, led by Ball.
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I'm actually not that impressed with UCLA's talent. They do a great job of playing together.
They were exposed against Arizona and there coach.
TJ leaf is good but he's skinny and he didn't show up vs Arizona. They need Leaf if they are going to make a run in the tournament.
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I'm actually not that impressed with UCLA's talent. They do a great job of playing together.
They were exposed against Arizona and there coach.
TJ leaf is good but he's skinny and he didn't show up vs Arizona. They need Leaf if they are going to make a run in the tournament.
TP, good points, I agree. Aside from Ball and Leaf, Holiday (a role player) and Alford (mature, senior) are their best players and will never sniff the draft.
"Zona on the other hand has 4 players who will likely get drafted this year or next.
)Markkanen, Alkins, Trier, Kobe Simmons).
They have a lot of talent and as you alluded to, a good coach. They could go far in the NCAAs.
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I'm actually not that impressed with UCLA's talent. They do a great job of playing together.
They were exposed against Arizona and there coach.
TJ leaf is good but he's skinny and he didn't show up vs Arizona. They need Leaf if they are going to make a run in the tournament.
TP, good points, I agree. Aside from Ball and Leaf, Holiday (a role player) and Alford (mature, senior) are their best players and will never sniff the draft.
"Zona on the other hand has 4 players who will likely get drafted this year or next.
)Markkanen, Alkins, Trier, Kobe Simmons).
They have a lot of talent and as you alluded to, a good coach. They could go far in the NCAAs.
+1 back at you Bro.
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Just so you guys know, there must be a glitch in Draftexpress site. Ball is listed at 6'6 on his profile card, but under measurements he measures in around 6'4 with shoes. Him and Fultz are approximately the same height.
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Just so you guys know, there must be a glitch in Draftexpress site. Ball is listed at 6'6 on his profile card, but under measurements he measures in around 6'4 with shoes. Him and Fultz are approximately the same height.
Are you sure? I thought Ball was 6'6. Wow that makes a huge difference for me. He really is strictly a PG then and now I'm worried if he will be able to get his shot off due to his low release.
ESPN has him at 6'6 too....
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066421/lonzo-ball
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Just so you guys know, there must be a glitch in Draftexpress site. Ball is listed at 6'6 on his profile card, but under measurements he measures in around 6'4 with shoes. Him and Fultz are approximately the same height.
Are you sure? I thought Ball was 6'6. Wow that makes a huge difference for me. He really is strictly a PG then and now I'm worried if he will be able to get his shot off due to his low release.
ESPN has him at 6'6 too....
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4066421/lonzo-ball
actually looking back at the dates listed on draft express, the most recent measurement was around 2 years ago. so his height at 6'6 might be true, but there doesnt seem to be any official measurement past October 2014.
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"Super elite" - I guess we know that KGLL's true identity is Jay Bilas.
Ball also has Super Elite "Length" and "Wingspan"
Not really, just wanted to say that. Shout out to my baby uncle Jay Bilas.
"Tremendous winner with upside feel for the game!"
TP.
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"Super elite" - I guess we know that KGLL's true identity is Jay Bilas.
Ball also has Super Elite "Length" and "Wingspan"
Not really, just wanted to say that. Shout out to my baby uncle Jay Bilas.
"Tremendous winner with upside feel for the game!"
TP.
+1 Back at Cha
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At the end of the video it shows him nailing three's from 30 plus feet.
Kid's got insane range.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=rBb_Y0lZNL8
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When people compare him to J Kidd, do they take into account his defensive ability? Because Kidd was dominant defensively as well. Is Ball a dominant defensive player? Or are people just talking about passing ability?
How good was Kidd's defense as a freshman in college?
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When people compare him to J Kidd, do they take into account his defensive ability? Because Kidd was dominant defensively as well. Is Ball a dominant defensive player? Or are people just talking about passing ability?
How good was Kidd's defense as a freshman in college?
J Kidd avg 3.8 steals per game his freshman year. That's crazy..
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
Not sure whether it's intended but this could also be used as a jab at Fultz, who has seemingly been unable to make the guys around him not suck.
If Lonzo Ball was doing what he is now at Washington, I'd be far more impressed and would actually believe this little story, that serves nothing more than damage control for his choice to go to a stacked program.
Fultz is essentially in a situation where if he sucks that team is not winning any games.
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
Not sure whether it's intended but this could also be used as a jab at Fultz, who has seemingly been unable to make the guys around him not suck.
If you swap Fultz and Ball, UCLA would still be great and Washington would still suck.
Washington gets worse. UCLA probably does too.
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Interesting article. He likes the 5'2" chubby guy the best that only can shoot a corner three. 35 and 0 his senior year in HS. Never won a game by less than 10 points.
Only lost once in college. How funny us it that he wants to win with scrubs for an extra challenge.
I got a challenge for you Ball. Beat LeBron then Curry and Durant with the Celtics.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/01/19/lonzo-ball-tj-leaf-bryce-alford-ucla-bruins-pac-12%3famp=1
hmm... that's good PR. Me thinks this was a message to the teams selecting at the lottery, basically saying I can make your guys not suck. Though it's kind of ironic considering his team is no slouch this year.
Not sure whether it's intended but this could also be used as a jab at Fultz, who has seemingly been unable to make the guys around him not suck.
If you swap Fultz and Ball, UCLA would still be great and Washington would still suck.
Washington gets worse. UCLA probably does too.
I think this is right. Ball fits great surrounded by shooters, whereas Washington needs Fultz's ability to score.
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Basketball Genius is an appropriate title for Ball's game. If you read the article he has exploded UCLA's Effective Fg% for the entire team.
My favorite prospect since Durant. He doesn't drive much but when he does he's really efficient.
Future Hall of Famer IMO. Great read.
Lonzo Ball has drawn massive hype as an NBA prospect, as he is now in the conversation for the #1 overall pick in spite of Markelle Fultz’s existence. He has become a polarizing figure on basketball twitter as some perceive him as Basketball Jesus, whereas others see him as a non-deity who cannot create his own shot at the rim or play defense.
Scouting Report
It is common to evaluate prospects based on which boxes they check off, and Lonzo is considered a big risk through this lens. Neither his handle nor first step is elite, and he rarely creates his own shot at the rim. And while he is shooting 43% from 3, his 68% FT’s and low release on his jumper raise concerns for his ability to consistently make NBA 3’s. And because he is a non-elite athlete who struggles to defend at the point of attack, we are left with a point guard who cannot get to the rim, can only maybe shoot, and cannot defend. When you view it that way, Lonzo sounds far from awesome.
But the counterpoint is that Lonzo has strengths in his game as well, and they are spectacular. It starts with his supreme basketball IQ, which has potential to be the best basketball IQ in NBA history. He constantly pushes pace and dishes picture perfect passes to set up his teammates with high quality shots in their hot spots. This is his one big strength which has captivated the draft world.
Aside from smarts, Ball has elite size for a PG at 6’6″, and even though he is not an explosive freak, he moves well and is a pretty good athlete. Height is an extremely important tool for a PG, as it gives him the ability to see and pass over defenses as well as switch onto wings defensively. Overall his physical tools are a significant positive, as they enable him to rack up good rebounds, steal, and block totals for a PG.
The Checkbox Fallacy
The problem with grading a player based on checkboxes is that it will penalize a player for multiple minor flaws and an outlier strength. Let’s play devil’s advocate to Lonzo’s flags:
While Ball does have downside on defense, his physical tools, rebound, steal, and block rates offer just as much upside on that end. If nothing else his height gives him the ability to fit in well with a heavy switching defense. And while he is flawed, nothing is broken in a way that precludes him from being great defensively as a pro.
His shot is a minor concern, but if he ticks up his FT% it becomes trivial. He is currently at 68% in an extremely small sample. In 2015 AAU play he shot 24/31 from the line, and if you sum that with his UCLA sample he is up to 71%. He is shooting 43% from 3 on nearly twice as many 3PA as FTA with the majority of his makes coming from NBA 3 range, and he rarely misses badly. His shot is not perfect, but is a clear positive in my eyes.
The greatest concern is his ability to create for himself, but there are a number of mitigating factors:
As per synergy, he ranks 91 percentile as both a PnR handler and isolation scorer. He attacks infrequently, but is efficient when he does.
His off the dribble shot qualifies as creation, and while he only has 14 attempts he has 20 points ranking him 99%ile. Small sample yes, but he often takes this shot from NBA 3 range and rarely misses badly.
There have been elite NBA PG’s such as Steve Nash and John Stockton who did not put significant pressure on the rim in college. It is not nearly a fatal flaw given the skill set.
He moves well off the ball, and often dunks home lobs off of cuts. Even if he needs creation help, he can still be a dynamite off ball player with size to defend wings.
Overall Lonzo has a handful of pink flags in his game, but no glaring red flags. Meanwhile, he has the one outlier strength of being a basketball genius that should carry exponentially more weight than the weaknesses in his game.
Basketball IQ and Point Gods
nba_g_nashpaul_580
Let’s take a moment to look at the most successful players drafted outside of the top 3 in NBA history:
Year Pick Player WS WS/40
2005 4 Chris Paul 150.8 0.251
1984 5 Charles Barkley 177.2 0.216
1985 13 Karl Malone 234.6 0.205
1978 6 Larry Bird 145.8 0.203
1998 9 Dirk Nowitzki 198.8 0.201
2009 7 Stephen Curry 77.7 0.200
We have a couple of non-athletes who dominated with smarts and skill in Bird and Curry on the list, but the player I want to focus on is the guy at the top: Chris Paul.
Chris Paul was drafted after Andrew Bogut, Marvin Williams, and Deron Williams because 6’0″ players never become superstars. But Chris Paul bucked that trend, and is likely the best player in NBA history 6’5″ and under. He did so by being a basketball savant with parallels to Lonzo Ball, as his efficient PG play led Wake Forest to the #1 offense in both of his NCAA seasons.
Now let’s see the best players drafted outside of the top 14:
Year Pick Player WS WS/48
1984 16 John Stockton 207.7 0.209
1996 15 Steve Nash 129.7 0.164
Oh hey, it’s two more basketball genius PG’s that like Ball were neither elite athletes nor scorers.
Basketball IQ is an incredibly important trait for a point guard. The PG has the ball in his hands the most, and is constantly making decisions that affect his team’s scoring output. Consistently good decision making can add up to a tremendous amount of value, therefore it should not be a surprise that three of the biggest draft steals in NBA history had an elite basketball IQ to overcome their flaws that caused them to slide.
Now consider that Lonzo’s pre-draft flaws are more trivial, as he is has a much better physical profile than any of Paul, Stockton, or Nash, and he also has far more draft hype than any of the three as well. The additional hype does not make him necessarily better, but imagine: what if he overachieves his draft expectation as much as the aforementioned trio? He would be in the conversation for the best player in NBA history.
To me it is incredible that people care more about the ability to put pressure on the rim than his basketball IQ. There is only one Russell Westbrook, and there will likely not be another. Most all-time great PG’s are more cerebral than athletic, with Steph Curry, Jason Kidd, Magic Johnson, and pre-injury Penny Hardaway as further examples. If you look at the athletic scorers with average IQ outside of Russ, you are more likely to end up with a Stephon Marbury or Allen Iverson who are not causes to tank for.
But How Do We Know Lonzo is a Basketball Genius?!?
Great question! After all, it is awfully aggressive to rank him up there with the creme de la creme of basketball IQ’s in NBA history. First, let’s look at UCLA’s team offensive success under Steve Alford via kenpom.com:
screen-shot-2017-01-15-at-11-18-33-am
Steve Alford is not a great coach (without Ball he clearly undervalues 3PA), but he does attract great talent. In 2014, he took over a loaded roster featuring Kyle Anderson, Jordan Adams, Norman Powell, Zach LaVine, and the efficient Wear twins. This resulted in easily his best offense in 21 pre-Ball seasons as a college head coach at #11 in NCAA, as his next best ranked #38 for Iowa in 2005.
Now Lonzo, Leaf, and company are waffle crushing that team with the #1 offense in the country. Lonzo’s impact is noticeable in a few ways: 1) UCLA is posting a historic eFG% as he creates elite shots both inside and outside the arc, 2) The team has a massive spike in 3PA rate as he understands that 3 pointers are better than mid-range, and 3) the team’s tempo and average possession length are faster than ever because he knows to push pace and move the ball crisply.
Not only does Lonzo create elite shots for his teammates, he does so with an unprecedented ability to avoid turnovers. Let’s compare his NCAA per 40 stats to other PG’s. Note that Nash and Stockton were late bloomers so I used their senior year stats, and career samples for the others:
PTS AST TOV AST:TOV
Ball 16.5 9 2.6 3.5
Paul 18 7.5 3.2 2.3
Stockton 22.2 7.6 3.5 2.2
Kidd 17.8 10 4.9 2.0
Nash 20.1 7.1 4.2 1.7
Penny 21.8 6.5 3.9 1.7
Oh. My. God. You could mention that a bust like Tyler Ennis had a nearly as good assist:TOV rate (3.2), but he did so by making low risk, low reward passes for a team with a below average eFG%. To be a risk taker like Lonzo and create monster eFG% for his team and STILL avoid turnovers is nothing short of godlike.
Chris Paul is the gold standard for NBA assist to turnover rate, and Ball puts his numbers to shame. Granted, Ball benefits from a lower scoring volume (I did not adjust for pace so his volume is even lower than it appears), but the point is clear: we have never seen a player create shots for his teammates while avoiding turnovers like this ever before. Not even close.
So Lonzo is going to better than all of those studs?
1750408-e1371719551821
Not necessarily. There are areas he pales in comparison to this group, even outside of scoring volume. Looking at career per 40 rates for everybody (again, not adjusted for pace):
Player STL FT%
Nash 1.7 86.7%
Paul 3 83.8%
Stockton 3.1 71.9%
Penny 2.7 71.7%
Ball 2.1 67.8%
Kidd 4.1 67.7%
Again, not pace adjusted so Lonzo’s steal rate is slightly inflated here. The only player who gets fewer steals is Nash, who makes up for it with a much better FT%. Kidd is the only player who is as poor at the line, but he makes up for it with double the steal rate. Meanwhile Chris Paul crushes him at both, so perhaps he has some subtle cerebral and skill advantage that will prevent Ball from reaching his status as a point god.
The steal rate also lends credence to his defense being a problem, as in spite of his tools he is much closer to Nash the sieve than the the great stoppers like Stockton and Kidd.
While there is some evidence that Ball is in a league of his own as a point god, there is other evidence that he is a notch below the creme de la creme. It is possible that he peaks as the best of the bunch, but he also could be the weakest link.
Conclusion
There are enough flaws in Ball’s game to stop short of calling him a guaranteed hall of famer, which is how I felt about Joel Embiid when he played at Kansas. But there is much to love, and nothing to strongly dislike. He is definitely going to be a good NBA player, and is likely going to be great one.
I have watched him play more than any other prospect in this class, and every time I see him I feel as if I am witnessing greatness. He runs UCLA’s offense as perfectly as a 19 year old can, and it is mesmerizing to see him consistently set up his teammates with amazing shots with such infrequent mistakes.
This draft class is so loaded, it is still early to come to many hard conclusions. But I have seen enough of Lonzo to come to a few:
He is clearly a top 2 prospect on my board. Josh Jackson has great upside, but his shot is a much bigger wart than any of Ball’s, and I do not think he has as much overall goodness as Ball’s basketball IQ offers.
Ball deserves consideration at #1 overall. Markelle Fultz is an incredible talent in his own rite, but it is plausible that Ball is the better prospect. I am not sure who will end up #1 on my final big board, right now they are super close to me.
Dennis Smith Jr. has approximately 0% odds of becoming a better NBA player than Ball. He is the inverse of Lonzo as he passes the checkbox test, but his limited basketball IQ and size make him a poor gamble in the top 5.
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Basketball Einstein. I know he's not perfect, but I can't understand people that don't want him.
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Basketball Einstein. I know he's not perfect, but I can't understand people that don't want him.
he looks great
I wonder if people are just afraid of his funky shot
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Basketball Einstein. I know he's not perfect, but I can't understand people that don't want him.
i wasnt aware that folks here simply did not want to draft him. whom do you mean specifically?
from my reading of cb, most folks prefer fultz. but i dont think that is the same as not wanting ball. they think fultz is better.
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I've long said he has higher upside than Fultz, he is just not looking as convincing as him.
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Can we just have one Ball thread?
Dude just got shut down by USC.
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Can we just have one Ball thread?
Dude just got shut down by USC.
One Question. Did you watch the game?
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Can we just have one Ball thread?
Dude just got shut down by USC.
This is a work in progress. I'm trying to consolidate a bunch of the prospect threads.
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15 points 10 boards 4 dimes. With Ball numbers never tell the whole story.
He controls the game. He'd be, by far, the highest BBIQ basketball player the Celtics have, from the first day he stepped on the court.
Think about that for a moment. He has skills nobody can even teach.
I've also said UCLA's team is vastly overrated. If you look it was Leaf that didn't do anything. They need him big-time.
USC's roster was much more athletic. So wasn't Arizona. UCLA as a team actually kind of sucks as far as talent.
Ball has really elivated these guys if you read the article, it explains that.
Peace out brothers and Sisters.
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Can we just have one Ball thread?
Dude just got shut down by USC.
This is a work in progress. I'm trying to consolidate a bunch of the prospect threads.
Nice work Big D. TP.
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Can we just have one Ball thread?
Dude just got shut down by USC.
This is a work in progress. I'm trying to consolidate a bunch of the prospect threads.
Nice work Big D. TP.
Yeah, much appreciated.
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Haters welcome here! Mods please leave this separate for a moment as it pertains to opinions on why Ball won't make it big as a Pro.
I've seen a lot of basketball and I think this kids the man. However I love hearing the different viewpoints on people that disagree.
My scouting report: What he does right now
Brain: His mind works at hypersonic speed.
Vision: Elite vision
Hand size and Wrist strength, Never seen any player whip the ball around the court with the speed and sharpness.
Doesn't stick: No rondo in his game. He rarely holds it for more than a second.
Unselfish:
Size: Listed at 6'6" Giant point guard can see over defense. Size to play Two.
Elite Shooting: .431% 3 pointers. 5.6 attempts a game from Curry like distances.
Handle: Very good. 8.5 right now could be tighter.
Weaknesses I'll let you guys handle that, I have a few gripes.
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Im not a Ball hater. for me hes the second best prospect in the country, but I do think the gap between him and Jackson/Tatum/Smith/Isaac is smaller than most do.
I think you overrate his handle and Im concerned about his inability to create seperation.
His jumper also looks like he needs a lot of room to get it off which is a bit concerning.
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For me, I have real questions about his defense. Noticed that in you opening points you do not even mention that. You should.
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He's a good enough athlete to make it, but he's nothing special. Every other top PG this year is a pretty special athlete. He's also a mediocre free throw shooter. We're nitpicking, though. He's going to be very good.
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For me, I have real questions about his defense. Noticed that in you opening points you do not even mention that. You should.
Fair enough.
One to ten he's about a 7 on defense. His on ball defense I can't give you much, haven't seen him challenged by good players.
I have seen highlight Chase down blocks on the break, blocks in the post.
When he decides to pressure you and jump passing lanes he's very good at it. 1.7 spg. Really could get more.
I think the difference between He and Kidd is the endurance. Kidd was just a machine. This kis is human and get's tired. I don't know if he can improve that.
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He's a good enough athlete to make it, but he's nothing special. Every other top PG this year is a pretty special athlete. He's also a mediocre free throw shooter. We're nitpicking, though. He's going to be very good.
Tp Max. Thanks for saying we are nit picking, because we are. The kid might be better than anybody on the Celtics not named Thomas.
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Im not a Ball hater. for me hes the second best prospect in the country, but I do think the gap between him and Jackson/Tatum/Smith/Isaac is smaller than most do.
I think you overrate his handle and Im concerned about his inability to create seperation.
His jumper also looks like he needs a lot of room to get it off which is a bit concerning.
I agree with this, these flaws might relegate him to just a catch and shoot type of guy from 3, quite worrying considering he will probably a PG rather than a SG. He'd need to be in a high ball movement offense to be able to shoot, and defenders would probably stick to him like glue.
I dont know how much we need a guy like Ball whos main strength in the NBA will probably be his passing ability, considering how well our ball movement already is as a team. We need a guy who can just flat out get buckets.
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Haters welcome here! Mods please leave this separate for a moment as it pertains to opinions on why Ball won't make it big as a Pro.
I've seen a lot of basketball and I think this kids the man. However I love hearing the different viewpoints on people that disagree.
My scouting report: What he does right now
Brain: His mind works at hypersonic speed.
Vision: Elite vision
Hand size and Wrist strength, Never seen any player whip the ball around the court with the speed and sharpness.
Doesn't stick: No rondo in his game. He rarely holds it for more than a second.
Unselfish:
Size: Listed at 6'6" Giant point guard can see over defense. Size to play Two.
Elite Shooting: .431% 3 pointers. 5.6 attempts a game from Curry like distances.
Handle: Very good. 8.5 right now could be tighter.
Weaknesses I'll let you guys handle that, I have a few gripes.
Yes, there's a lot to like, and you make excellent points. I love his flair, his game is beautiful to watch - but more importantly it's the mark of a hard-working perfectionist who loves the game.
I think that the concerns about his defense are justified; but ultimately he's got the athletic ability, the feel for the game, and the desire to be great that suggest the defense will come sooner or later - at least, given a coach who demands it. .
My main concern is with his body; home position for his knees is already pretty extended, and even if he doesn't wind up with meniscus or ligament injuries I think that there's a good chance of chronic tendinitis or low back pain.
Having said that, I think he's a great choice, worth the risk, and a good fit for Boston.
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His shot weirds me out.
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and yet another Lonzo Ball thread.....
FULTZ is better.
Ball was bottled by USC last Wednesday.
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Haters welcome here! Mods please leave this separate for a moment as it pertains to opinions on why Ball won't make it big as a Pro.
I've seen a lot of basketball and I think this kids the man. However I love hearing the different viewpoints on people that disagree.
My scouting report: What he does right now
Brain: His mind works at hypersonic speed.
Vision: Elite vision
Hand size and Wrist strength, Never seen any player whip the ball around the court with the speed and sharpness.
Doesn't stick: No rondo in his game. He rarely holds it for more than a second.
Unselfish:
Size: Listed at 6'6" Giant point guard can see over defense. Size to play Two.
Elite Shooting: .431% 3 pointers. 5.6 attempts a game from Curry like distances.
Handle: Very good. 8.5 right now could be tighter.
Weaknesses I'll let you guys handle that, I have a few gripes.
Yes, there's a lot to like, and you make excellent points. I love his flair, his game is beautiful to watch - but more importantly it's the mark of a hard-working perfectionist who loves the game.
I think that the concerns about his defense are justified; but ultimately he's got the athletic ability, the feel for the game, and the desire to be great that suggest the defense will come sooner or later - at least, given a coach who demands it. .
My main concern is with his body; home position for his knees is already pretty extended, and even if he doesn't wind up with meniscus or ligament injuries I think that there's a good chance of chronic tendinitis or low back pain.
Having said that, I think he's a great choice, worth the risk, and a good fit for Boston.
TP Painted. This was a great point he loves the game clearly.
. I love his flair, his game is beautiful to watch - but more importantly it's the mark of a hard-working perfectionist who loves the game.
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and yet another Lonzo Ball thread.....
FULTZ is better.
Ball was bottled by USC last Wednesday.
And Big O. Im not saying he's better than Fultz! He's awesome too! Much better scorer!
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This is a Jason Kidd scouting report predraft.
Looks like he had trouble finishing. Ball hits at a high % just doesn't drive that much.
Possibly the most gifted non-UCLA center player in the Pac-10. Led nation in assists as soph, led pac-10 as frosh. Voted frosh of the year in 92-93. (National) Pac-10 player of the year, All American. Also was in the top ten in steals last year and this one.
Doubts: Shooting, not as bad as everyone makes it out to be, shot 36% from 3-pt. range this year, and started hitting free throws down the stretch as well. Also has a tendancy to force things, especially in the half court game.Also some tendancies to make spectacular move, then miss the layup. Has trouble finishing.
However, there are no doubts about his desire and talent. Arguably a better passer than Magic Johnson(gasp!), a student of the game. Gives 100% at all times on the court. Is able to dominate a game, without scoring.
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The best part is the last sentence.
"Is able to dominate the game without scoring" That perfectly describes Ball, and he shoots 43% from three.
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and yet another Lonzo Ball thread.....
FULTZ is better.
Ball was bottled by USC last Wednesday.
Yeah exactly what Im about to say. No need to create multiple threads to discuss a single player. Esp since what's being said is repetitive.
With that said, Im fine with drafting Ball if Fultz is not available.
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...not a bad game by Ball last night....But Ball has problems/does not want to drive and and finish going all the way to the basket
At the NBA level when teams play him tighter, it could cause potential issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSQoqEcu5a8
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...not a bad game by Ball last night....But Ball has problems/does not want to drive and and finish going all the way to the basket
At the NBA level when teams play him tighter, it could cause potential issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSQoqEcu5a8
He looks great to me. Sure would love to see him play with Brown. Seems like fun to play with him.
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I'm with KG. Ball is the man. Will be a leader on a championship team. Don't feel that way about Fultz. He will stuff the stat sheet but won't lead team to championship.
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Just reading this article about Lamelo, his dad looks like a huge **** <- (didnt know that was blocked lol). Like one of those guys in a documentary about those sports crazed parents that force their kids to play sports.
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Lonzo is putting on a SHOW. Heard something in the recent RealGM podcast with Sam Vecenie, and it could not be more true: Lonzo Ball was put on this Earth to play basketball.
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Lonzo is putting on a SHOW. Heard something in the recent RealGM podcast with Sam Vecenie, and it could not be more true: Lonzo Ball was put on this Earth to play basketball.
He had a quiet first half, but dominated down the stretch. Even put the ball on the floor and attacked the rim!
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That step back to ice it was unreal.
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He has the CLUTCH GENE: does Markelle?
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He has the CLUTCH GENE: does Markelle?
The thing about Ball is he is a pure point guard and I can't see how it would be possible to play him next to Thomas, where as Fultz is more of a combo...although IMO Ainge will be moving the pick if we get a top 2
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He has the CLUTCH GENE: does Markelle?
The thing about Ball is he is a pure point guard and I can't see how it would be possible to play him next to Thomas, where as Fultz is more of a combo...although IMO Ainge will be moving the pick if we get a top 2
both guys are good enough shooters to play off-ball. Plus, Ball is big enough to gaurd twos.
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He has the CLUTCH GENE: does Markelle?
The thing about Ball is he is a pure point guard and I can't see how it would be possible to play him next to Thomas, where as Fultz is more of a combo...although IMO Ainge will be moving the pick if we get a top 2
both guys are good enough shooters to play off-ball. Plus, Ball is big enough to gaurd twos.
TP..... you took the words right out of my mouth.
When Thomas is paired with Smart, Thomas plays off the ball, and they are very effective together, and Smart takes the 2 on D.
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Just reading this article about Lamelo, his dad looks like a huge **** <- (didnt know that was blocked lol). Like one of those guys in a documentary about those sports crazed parents that force their kids to play sports.
Definitely strikes me as a dad who could be a detriment to his son's success down the line. I view best case scenario for him being like the basketball version of Gronk's dad. Worst case scenario he does the stupid sound bites where he compares his kids to MJ again.
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I really like Ball. The thing is he is always playing with a knee pad on his left knee. I mean, you wear these things for a reason. If he were 100% healthy he wouldn't have to use a knee pad.
I made a quick google search about it and the only thing I found was this tweet from 2015
''Knee hurt so much can't sleep😑''
https://twitter.com/zo2_/status/634648290793881600
Has anyone read anything suspicious about his injury history?
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He has the CLUTCH GENE: does Markelle?
The thing about Ball is he is a pure point guard and I can't see how it would be possible to play him next to Thomas, where as Fultz is more of a combo...although IMO Ainge will be moving the pick if we get a top 2
both guys are good enough shooters to play off-ball. Plus, Ball is big enough to gaurd twos.
TP..... you took the words right out of my mouth.
When Thomas is paired with Smart, Thomas plays off the ball, and they are very effective together, and Smart takes the 2 on D.
Ball/Bradley seems like an ideal pairing on paper. Bradley can guard the smaller,quicker points, which is where he really excels, and provides a shooter on the wing. Smart is the one guy who might not pair well with Ball. Ball/Bradley/Brown/Crowder/Horford would be a fun unit.
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I really like Ball. The thing is he is always playing with a knee pad on his left knee. I mean, you wear these things for a reason. If he were 100% healthy he wouldn't have to use a knee pad.
I made a quick google search about it and the only thing I found was this tweet from 2015
''Knee hurt so much can't sleep😑''
https://twitter.com/zo2_/status/634648290793881600
Has anyone read anything suspicious about his injury history?
Well that's scary. Good find.
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I really like Ball. The thing is he is always playing with a knee pad on his left knee. I mean, you wear these things for a reason. If he were 100% healthy he wouldn't have to use a knee pad.
I made a quick google search about it and the only thing I found was this tweet from 2015
''Knee hurt so much can't sleep😑''
https://twitter.com/zo2_/status/634648290793881600
Has anyone read anything suspicious about his injury history?
Well that's scary. Good find.
How about Fultz yesterday as a DNP because of his knee? The same knee that he hurt earlier in the season against the Zags?
I get the Ball concern about the knee and don't know if it's an issue long-term, but at least he is wearing something to support it. Can you tell if it's a support or just padding in case he goes to the floor? Not sure myself.
What I don't get is NBA players (or anybody playing sports for that matter) who don't wear supports after serious injury. Jabari Parker had no knee brace/support on when he just got hurt. I get the movement restriction thing, if that is even an issue, but is worth serious injury again not to wear them?
How many young players learn the hard way about that? Especially with not taping ankles, even after they've had bad sprains?
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Can you tell if it's a support or just padding in case he goes to the floor? Not sure myself.
I guess it's a support because he wears just one knee pad (always on his left knee). If he was worried about falling to the floor he would probably wear pads on both knees.
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Just gotta say I love watching this kid play. Hope he or Jackson is our pick.
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Watched UCLA play the last two games last night on DVR. Two games ago vs The #5 ranked Oregon Ducks.
Ball had a subpar game, but then came crunch time. He went all and one at the top of the key, dribiling between his legs, crossovers, and then exploded to the hoop for a layup in crunch time.
Next possession in crunch time he drills a 30 footer from three, just unconscious, to seal the game. five points in the final two minutes to beat the Oregon Ducks.
Definitely has the clutch Jean.
Last game against Oregon state he dominates the whole game. 9 for 12 from the field. 22 points 6 boards 9 dimes.
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Watched UCLA play the last two games last night on DVR. Two games ago vs The #5 ranked Oregon Ducks.
Ball had a subpar game, but then came crunch time. He went all and one at the top of the key, dribiling between his legs, crossovers, and then exploded to the hoop for a layup in crunch time.
Next possession in crunch time he drills a 30 footer from three, just unconscious, to seal the game. five points in the final two minutes to beat the Oregon Ducks.
Definitely has the clutch Jean.
Last game against Oregon state he dominates the whole game. 9 for 12 from the field. 22 points 6 boards 9 dimes.
Who exactly is 'Jean?' His mother?
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https://youtu.be/qmN-LUKxiFk
If lonzo is anything close to the likeness of his dad then I do not want him to be anywhere near the Celtics.
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Lonzo Ball (UCLA) Full highlights vs USC // 2.18.17 // 15 Pts, 8 Ast, 8 Reb
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaxRqpSQerM
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Watched UCLA play the last two games last night on DVR. Two games ago vs The #5 ranked Oregon Ducks.
Ball had a subpar game, but then came crunch time. He went all and one at the top of the key, dribiling between his legs, crossovers, and then exploded to the hoop for a layup in crunch time.
Next possession in crunch time he drills a 30 footer from three, just unconscious, to seal the game. five points in the final two minutes to beat the Oregon Ducks.
Definitely has the clutch Jean.
Last game against Oregon state he dominates the whole game. 9 for 12 from the field. 22 points 6 boards 9 dimes.
Who exactly is 'Jean?' His mother?
LOL.
I think he meant "gene".
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
Looks like there's a 50-50 chance he goes back to school next year, then.
Honestly, Mr. Ball is the biggest reason I'm not interested in Lonzo. I'm fairly sure he feels he should coach whatever team his son winds up on.
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
Looks like there's a 50-50 chance he goes back to school next year, then.
Honestly, Mr. Ball is the biggest reason I'm not interested in Lonzo. I'm fairly sure he feels he should coach whatever team his son winds up on.
Tha'ts what he essentially does with his younger sons. He only lets his kids play for their high school team on the condition they run an offense that directly benefits their game. If you watch some film of LaMelo, he can be seen cherry picking to inflate points, and that his team plays 4:5 on defense.
Also, I feel Lonzo would have similar personality traits to that of his dad's (maybe to not the same extant), and I would hate to have a player that arrogant and spoiled on our team.
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
And this is why there is no surefire #1 in this draft. Kid might pull a Brian Shaw on us and play on Italy. Fultz strikes me as another Okafor in this draft that was hyped by his scoring prowess and not much else.
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
And this is why there is no surefire #1 in this draft. Kid might pull a Brian Shaw on us and play on Italy. Fultz strikes me as another Okafor in this draft that was hyped by his scoring prowess and not much else.
You're very wrong on Fultz, but there's already a thread devoted to him, so I won't say more.
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Dont want anything to do with this kid at this point. His dad was a red flag for me before, now its a redder flag. Get this laker loving crap out of my house. If he cant realize we are a much better situation for him, and all he cares about is the glitz and glam instead of basketball forget him.
Fultz or Jackson or trade the pick. Make a case for Tatum and I will listen, but Ball is dead to me. We dont need this Kardashian-esque drama on our team.
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
Looks like there's a 50-50 chance he goes back to school next year, then.
Honestly, Mr. Ball is the biggest reason I'm not interested in Lonzo. I'm fairly sure he feels he should coach whatever team his son winds up on.
Thus is nonsense. Screw his stupid Father. He means we'll but he's a moron. He's a typical make me Rich Dad.
Lonzo is not going to the Lakers, he's going to the team that drafted him.
I don't care about Lamelo who sucks and needs to cherry pick.
Lonzo is the only NBA player in the family and he's the opposite of a cherry picker, he's the most unselfish teamate you will ever lay your eyes on.
Future Hall of famer.
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Yeah, his dad sounds like a real piece of work, especially when you combine them with his "better than Curry" comments.
This just furthers the Fultz train to me.
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Lonzo doesn't deserve any of this hate. Of course his dad wants him to stay home in California.
Lonzo is a great kid, a better teamate. Doesn't care at all about stats, just wins.
If you don't want a kid like that on the Celtics than go root for the Lakers.
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It's always been Fultz, Jackson or Tatum for me (Tatum worst case scenario around #4 - still good).
But boy do I wish the Lakers DON'T have their pick this season.
But knowing the rigged lottery they may end up getting #2 with Magic at the helm as well ::)
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It sounds like Boston would be an ideal spot for Lonzo as he would be 3,000 miles from his father.
I wouldn't worry about his dad or the Lakers comment. Boston is a good team that is well run and well coached. It would be a good situation for him. He and his dad will figure that out if Boston drafts him.
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Yeah, his dad sounds like a real piece of work, especially when you combine them with his "better than Curry" comments.
This just furthers the Fultz train to me.
Again Potter I respect your opinion. But by all accounts Lonzo is 100 times more mature than his dad.
Have you seen His interviews? Oldest son, really nice soft spoken kid. Lots of athletes have jerks for parents.
Please separate Lonzo from his dumb dad. When Lonzo is playing in Boston and his Idiot dad is in Chino Hills California they will get use to the separation.
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It sounds like Boston would be an ideal spot for Lonzo as he would be 3,000 miles from his father.
I wouldn't worry about his dad or the Lakers comment. Boston is a good team that is well run and well coached. It would be a good situation for him. He and his dad will figure that out if Boston drafts him.
Huge Tp Knuckle. That's a perfect point. Boston is the ideal spot for Lonzo to win and to getting distance from his crazy old man.
Ball is leading UCLA's offense probably the best offense in the last 25 years in college basketball.
This Ball hate is a joke. You should be singing Ainges praises we even have a chance to draft this Basketball Genius.
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
Looks like there's a 50-50 chance he goes back to school next year, then.
Honestly, Mr. Ball is the biggest reason I'm not interested in Lonzo. I'm fairly sure he feels he should coach whatever team his son winds up on.
Thus is nonsense. Screw his stupid Father. He means we'll but he's a moron. He's a typical make me Rich Dad.
Lonzo is not going to the Lakers, he's going to the team that drafted him.
I don't care about Lamelo who sucks and needs to cherry pick.
Lonzo is the only NBA player in the family and he's the opposite of a cherry picker, he's the most unselfish teamate you will ever lay your eyes on.
Future Hall of famer.
I'd put forward the argument that questions if Rondo is a selfish player. Yes, Rondo had tons of assists, but at the end of the day was he more selfish than not following the Big 3 Era?
At this point, one can argue that Lonzo has questionable character; he was raised with the same mentality as that of his father, as he is who raised him. It is clearly evident that he is spoiled and hand-fed everything that he has "accomplished" to this point. Even in UCLA, he was given the reigns to an elite team, a team that masks his clearly obvious flaws. I can't help but draw the comparison to Dion Waiters when he makes the transition to the NBA; he has the "I'm the best" mentality without the skill to show for it. You could argue that based on the interviews that he is a good kid, unlike his father, but there is a high chance he was trained to give good interviews, just like he was trained into being an NBA player by his father.
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It's always been Fultz, Jackson or Tatum for me (Tatum worst case scenario around #4 - still good).
But boy do I wish the Lakers DON'T have their pick this season.
But knowing the rigged lottery they may end up getting #2 with Magic at the helm as well ::)
Can't the Lakers lose their pick if they are not in the top 3? How did Magic rise in the Laker's organization so quickly?
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Look I have been wavering between Lonzo and Fultz for awhile, but his dad is a true negative presence. And lets be honest MOST sons grow up under influence from their fathers, be it taste in teams or philosophy on life. Now granted if the son hates their father they try to be the man he couldnt, yet Ball Sr doesnt strike me as a bad father. He is just an overbearing one.
To just assume that Lonzo doesnt share ANY of the thoughts of his father is asinine. While his father seems like a blow hard, he appears to be a giant cheerleader for his sons (not bad on the spectrum of awful fathers.)
So while good interviews may soften the blow, a basic understanding of the psychology of father/son relationships mean that lonzo is best case scenario only barely likely to deviate from his father's views on the world.
*disclaimer* I dont know the Ball family, and all I have to work off of is public information. But most of the extrapolations of future fit are the exact same so I will do it also.
PS- Denis, great points, TP. I was typing my post as you posted yours and I am tempted to delete everything I wrote haha.
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Look I have been wavering between Lonzo and Fultz for awhile, but his dad is a true negative presence. And lets be honest MOST sons grow up under influence from their fathers, be it taste in teams or philosophy on life. Now granted if the son hates their father they try to be the man he couldnt, yet Ball Sr doesnt strike me as a bad father. He is just an overbeaing one.
To just assume that Lonzo doesnt share ANY of the thoughts of his father is asinine. While his father seems like a blow hard, he appears to be a giant cheerleader for his sons (not bad on the spectrum of awful fathers.)
So while good interviews may soften the blow, a basic understanding of the psychology of father/son relationships mean that lonzo is best case scenario only barely likely to deviate from his father's views on the world.
*disclaimer* I dont know the Ball family, and all I have to work off of is public information. But most of the extrapolations of future fit are the exact same I will do it also.
PS- Denis, great points, TP. I was typing my post as you posted yours and I am tempted to delete everything I wrote haha.
right back at ya! and keep what you wrote lol, you make some great points as well.
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Lonzo Ball's dad is saying his son will ONLY play for the LAKERS
https://twitter.com/ironmikeluke/status/835611155301183492
Looks like there's a 50-50 chance he goes back to school next year, then.
Honestly, Mr. Ball is the biggest reason I'm not interested in Lonzo. I'm fairly sure he feels he should coach whatever team his son winds up on.
Thus is nonsense. Screw his stupid Father. He means we'll but he's a moron. He's a typical make me Rich Dad.
Lonzo is not going to the Lakers, he's going to the team that drafted him.
I don't care about Lamelo who sucks and needs to cherry pick.
Lonzo is the only NBA player in the family and he's the opposite of a cherry picker, he's the most unselfish teamate you will ever lay your eyes on.
Future Hall of famer.
I'd put forward the argument that questions if Rondo is a selfish player. Yes, Rondo had tons of assists, but at the end of the day was he more selfish than not following the Big 3 Era?
At this point, one can argue that Lonzo has questionable character; he was raised with the same mentality as that of his father, as he is who raised him. It is clearly evident that he is spoiled and hand-fed everything that he has "accomplished" to this point. Even in UCLA, he was given the reigns to an elite team, a team that masks his clearly obvious flaws. I can't help but draw the comparison to Dion Waiters when he makes the transition to the NBA; he has the "I'm the best" mentality without the skill to show for it. You could argue that based on the interviews that he is a good kid, unlike his father, but there is a high chance he was trained to give good interviews, just like he was trained into being an NBA player by his father.
Denis, have you watched Ball play full games.
IMO he's the opposite of Rondo. Rondo Eid pound the ball into the ground searching for assists selfishly.
Ball doesn't do that. Moves the ball up ahead constantly, always looking for the open teamate.
Jason Kidd, Magic, Ball. Those are the three most unselfish players I've ever seen.
Plus Ball shoots .421% from three on 5.5 attempts, and he shoots .708% from two!
4.3 attempts.
The anti Rondo.
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You know who had Ignorant parental figure's?
Allen Iverson and LeBron James, probably shouldn't draft them either right.
What a silly premise to not draft a player, just admit you don't like the player.
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You know who had Ignorant parental figure's?
Allen Iverson and LeBron James, probably shouldn't draft them either right.
What a silly premise to not draft a player, just admit you don't like the player.
See this is ridiculous and I respect most of what you do KG. Just because I differ from you doesnt mean I hate Ball. On the contrary I view him best case scenario as a tall sentinel esque sniper who makes amazing passes that leave your jaw dropped. I just feel like I made valid points on the human psyche.
Everything in a vacuum I view him as the 2nd best prospect (by a hair) behind Fultz. Yet none of the personal relationships of Ball appear for the other prospects. He is a great passer, and good shooter with a couple red flags
I will give it to you he is alot of fun to watch at the college level :police:
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Ball's style doesn't fit today's NBA
If you are paying him the max you won't have enough firepower for him to pass, or when his teammates don't perform who is gonna step up?
With Fultz he can just do it himself
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Ball's style doesn't fit today's NBA
If you are paying him the max you won't have enough firepower for him to pass, or when his teammates don't perform who is gonna step up?
With Fultz he can just do it himself
Another great point, but I will curtail the discussion to Ball. The modern NBA has shifted to a point where being able to create offense is key, and creating for others is a 1c type thing. Basically its great if you can create for others, but being able to in any scenario put the ball in the bucket is of a greater quality.
Even Lebron has that criticism and he is a top 10, even top 5 player. You need scorers in this era of baskstball, and Ball is a passer and 3pt shooter (slightly arguable due to ft% and mechnaics.)
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You know who had Ignorant parental figure's?
Allen Iverson and LeBron James, probably shouldn't draft them either right.
What a silly premise to not draft a player, just admit you don't like the player.
See this is ridiculous and I respect most of what you do KG. Just because I differ from you doesnt mean I hate Ball. On the contrary I view him best case scenario as a tall sentinel esque sniper who makes amazing passes that leave your jaw dropped. I just feel like I made valid points on the human psyche.
Everything in a vacuum I view him as the 2nd best prospect (by a hair) behind Fultz. Yet none of the personal relationships of Ball appear for the other prospects. He is a great passer, and good shooter with a couple red flags
I will give it to you he is alot of fun to watch at the college level :police:
TP F.O.S.
You said he's the second best player but a hair. I agree and that's really all I'm saying.
If we get the second pick I'm taking ball.
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You know who had Ignorant parental figure's?
Allen Iverson and LeBron James, probably shouldn't draft them either right.
What a silly premise to not draft a player, just admit you don't like the player.
See this is ridiculous and I respect most of what you do KG. Just because I differ from you doesnt mean I hate Ball. On the contrary I view him best case scenario as a tall sentinel esque sniper who makes amazing passes that leave your jaw dropped. I just feel like I made valid points on the human psyche.
Everything in a vacuum I view him as the 2nd best prospect (by a hair) behind Fultz. Yet none of the personal relationships of Ball appear for the other prospects. He is a great passer, and good shooter with a couple red flags
I will give it to you he is alot of fun to watch at the college level :police:
TP F.O.S.
You said he's the second best player but a hair. I agree and that's really all I'm saying.
If we get the second pick I'm taking ball.
Alright, fair enough then we agree. Who would you take first? Preemptive TP for what I am guessing the answer as haha.
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You know who had Ignorant parental figure's?
Allen Iverson and LeBron James, probably shouldn't draft them either right.
What a silly premise to not draft a player, just admit you don't like the player.
See this is ridiculous and I respect most of what you do KG. Just because I differ from you doesnt mean I hate Ball. On the contrary I view him best case scenario as a tall sentinel esque sniper who makes amazing passes that leave your jaw dropped. I just feel like I made valid points on the human psyche.
Everything in a vacuum I view him as the 2nd best prospect (by a hair) behind Fultz. Yet none of the personal relationships of Ball appear for the other prospects. He is a great passer, and good shooter with a couple red flags
I will give it to you he is alot of fun to watch at the college level :police:
TP F.O.S.
You said he's the second best player but a hair. I agree and that's really all I'm saying.
If we get the second pick I'm taking ball.
Alright, fair enough then we agree. Who would you take first? Preemptive TP for what I am guessing the answer as haha.
It's gotta be Fultz.
#1 Fultz
#2 Ball
#3 Jackson
#4 Tatum
#5 Monk
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KG, why do you devote so much energy to Ball if you believe Fultz is the better prospect?
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i've been looking at the draft and players...and i don't see the celtics taking ball with any of the picks..let's say...
celtics get ths #1 pick...we go with markelle fultz.
if we get the #2 pick we go with josh jackson.
if we get the #3 pick we go with jonathan isaac.
if we get the #4 pick it's isaac...
because if other teams go between us they will take ball...so i don't see us taking ball at all.
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i've been looking at the draft and players...and i don't see the celtics taking ball with any of the picks..let's say...
celtics get ths #1 pick...we go with markelle fultz.
if we get the #2 pick we go with josh jackson.
if we get the #3 pick we go with jonathan isaac.
if we get the #4 pick it's isaac...
because if other teams go between us they will take ball...so i don't see us taking ball at all.
This is nonsense.
#1 pick I agree we take Fultz.
#2 pick we take Ball.
There are two franchise altering talents in this draft, probably more but two are basically sure things if healthy.
I love Jackson and would take him third, but Ball is on another level
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play this...it agrees with me also...LOL
http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
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You know who had Ignorant parental figure's?
Allen Iverson and LeBron James, probably shouldn't draft them either right.
What a silly premise to not draft a player, just admit you don't like the player.
Well LeBron did abandon the team that drafted him and his mom did cause them to lose a playoff series, just ask Delonte about that one ;)
Personally though, it does always bug me when I hear about someone associated with the player so much (in most contexts). It just makes those other people come off as leeches, and then you start to question the kind of people so-and-so surround themselves with.
That I know who people like Lavar Ball and Aisha Curry are, and that I seemingly know every client Rich Paul represents, yet I don't really know who any other players' parents, wives, or agents are. Those are just headaches waiting to happen.
Obvious exceptions for those with already famous wives (Carmelo, Wade) or parents (Steph Curry, Luke Walton, etc.), yet they still rarely, if ever, seem to be in the news because of the player they're associated with.
I'll take the player based on talent just about every time, just not looking forward to those headaches that are going to come along with it.
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play this...it agrees with me also...LOL
http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
One player I wouldn't draft because I think he's am arrogant jerk is Dennis Smith JR.
Add to that his play has been disappointing recently and he's out of my top five.
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play this...it agrees with me also...LOL
http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
One player I wouldn't draft because I think he's am arrogant jerk is Dennis Smith JR.
Add to that his play has been disappointing recently and he's out of my top five.
yeah i wouldn't also...but no matter how many time i try this..it never has us taking ball? and it can't be because of need..because we take fult 1st...
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play this...it agrees with me also...LOL
http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
One player I wouldn't draft because I think he's am arrogant jerk is Dennis Smith JR.
Add to that his play has been disappointing recently and he's out of my top five.
yeah i wouldn't also...but no matter how many time i try this..it never has us taking ball? and it can't be because of need..because we take fultz 1st...
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[
[/quote]
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[
[/quote]
Ball vs Arizona highlights yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=oz-EMwvgHsk
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[
yeah i know the kid is special...
Ball vs Arizona highlights yesterday.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=oz-EMwvgHsk
[/quote]
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I didn't get it the first time we played them. I do now. Ball is really interesting. Loved his court vision and feel for the game.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncOQNzcU90Q
This kid is unbelievable.
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Wow.
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On offense, with the ball in his hands he is amazing.
But I wonder about his defense in the NBA. I am not sure he could stay in front of his man. On draftexpress they mentioned defense as a weakness. I have only see a little of ball on defense, but was not impressed.
Can. Anyone talk about this? Thanks.
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Hes great but hes still the #3 prospect for me. This draft is pretty stacked
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On offense, with the ball in his hands he is amazing.
But I wonder about his defense in the NBA. I am not sure he could stay in front of his man. On draftexpress they mentioned defense as a weakness. I have only see a little of ball on defense, but was not impressed.
Can. Anyone talk about this? Thanks.
I think he lacks the quickness and toughness to succeed in defending, his only tool is his height/length, maybe Curry-like type
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncOQNzcU90Q
This kid is unbelievable.
Don't see the hype really.. all of his passing Smart can already do it and the 3 is nice but even that remains a Qmark to pro
He is smooth and beatuful to watch but i don;t see alpha in him, that 3:15 passing is bad..
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At this point I have him as the fourth best player in the draft. What a loaded draft.
Fultz
Tatum
Smith, Jr
Ball
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Motor , work ethic , IQ seem more important than ever since CBS has arrived. They want guys with their head screwed on tight. Ball seems like a good guy . But I admit the circus of clowns , the rest of his family is a distraction for such young fellow to carry as baggage . Hopefully he can push them to the background out of his professional career. I think he will .....I'm just wondering if dealing with his looney father will turn CBS or DA off ....they will be his bosses.
I personally think the current Celtics needs another scorer to help IT , more than another Rondo type, how I kinda view Ball s game. Fultz can get his shot from anywhere and reminds me of da Beard.
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I love Ball. I'm a sucker for a great passer though.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncOQNzcU90Q
This kid is unbelievable.
Don't see the hype really.. all of his passing Smart can already do it and the 3 is nice but even that remains a Qmark to pro
He is smooth and beatuful to watch but i don;t see alpha in him, that 3:15 passing is bad..
His form on the long ball looks like Shawn Marion, a chest shot. :(
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
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He seems too weak to play NBA defense, remember RJ hunter. He looks really good on the offensive end even with that strange looking shot. He needs to hit free throws much better. He is very exciting to watch and Ball and Jaylen lobs would be a thing of beauty.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
-
Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
How do you know Ball has higher BBIQ than Futlz?
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
He is 4th on my board for alot of the reasons others have mentioned here.
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
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Not sure why my other post didnt seem to work but Ball is 4th on my list for alot of the reasons people mentioned earlier.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
He cant 3's based on what? Tatum and Turner are not alike at all.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You also say this as if Ball doesnt have issues in his game. Ball poor FT shooter. No mid range game at all so far. Doesnt beat people off the dribble. Creates very little separation from defender when he drives with the ball in his had. Doesnt finish in traffic well. Not sure he will be more than average defensively. Team has always fit around him, has yet to fit into a system.
Pluses. He has been able to win wherever he goes. His ugly shot goes in if he has space. Is good off the ball. Great vision and plays with pace.
Bottom line lets not think that everyone thinks he is a no brainer cus I sure and hell dont.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You can defend Ball without making up stuff about Tatum, who has become a very good 3 point shooter.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You can defend Ball without making up stuff about Tatum, who has become a very good 3 point shooter.
Tatum also has a prettier stroke imo.
my big board is
Fultz
Jackson
Tatum
Ball
I have not bee a big fan of Ball recently, but its more that I love Jackson and Tatum then I dont like Ball. I think ball is going to be a terrific player. i just think Jackson and Tatum will be better.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2696577-lonzo-ball-is-life-uclas-superstar-freshman-is-ready-to-win-it-all?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial
I don't know...he just might be weird enough to dominate in the Association.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You also say this as if Ball doesnt have issues in his game. Ball poor FT shooter. No mid range game at all so far. Doesnt beat people off the dribble. Creates very little separation from defender when he drives with the ball in his had. Doesnt finish in traffic well. Not sure he will be more than average defensively. Team has always fit around him, has yet to fit into a system.
Pluses. He has been able to win wherever he goes. His ugly shot goes in if he has space. Is good off the ball. Great vision and plays with pace.
Bottom line lets not think that everyone thinks he is a no brainer cus I sure and hell dont.
If you can't see that Ball is a future NBA star, then I question your ability to evaluate talent.
Tatum has improved his 3 point percentage to a solid rate. Ball is a basketball Genius. Not hard to see that if you watch a full game.
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Hard to know if he'll ever dominate, but I love watching him play. Brings joy and spontaneity back to the game.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You also say this as if Ball doesnt have issues in his game. Ball poor FT shooter. No mid range game at all so far. Doesnt beat people off the dribble. Creates very little separation from defender when he drives with the ball in his had. Doesnt finish in traffic well. Not sure he will be more than average defensively. Team has always fit around him, has yet to fit into a system.
Pluses. He has been able to win wherever he goes. His ugly shot goes in if he has space. Is good off the ball. Great vision and plays with pace.
Bottom line lets not think that everyone thinks he is a no brainer cus I sure and hell dont.
If you can't see that Ball is a future NBA star, then I question your ability to evaluate talent.
Tatum has improved his 3 point percentage to a solid rate. Ball is a basketball Genius. Not hard to see that if you watch a full game.
I agree with you
but I don't think he fits with the current Celtics squad
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Hard to know if he'll ever dominate, but I love watching him play. Brings joy and spontaneity back to the game.
He needs freedom and be with a team that is willing to run
The current Celtics team is mainly about halfcourt basketball
In addition Balls ability to drive and finish in the half court is questionable....
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You also say this as if Ball doesnt have issues in his game. Ball poor FT shooter. No mid range game at all so far. Doesnt beat people off the dribble. Creates very little separation from defender when he drives with the ball in his had. Doesnt finish in traffic well. Not sure he will be more than average defensively. Team has always fit around him, has yet to fit into a system.
Pluses. He has been able to win wherever he goes. His ugly shot goes in if he has space. Is good off the ball. Great vision and plays with pace.
Bottom line lets not think that everyone thinks he is a no brainer cus I sure and hell dont.
If you can't see that Ball is a future NBA star, then I question your ability to evaluate talent.
Tatum has improved his 3 point percentage to a solid rate. Ball is a basketball Genius. Not hard to see that if you watch a full game.
And yet Tatum could be the far better pro. It's a crap shoot. Who knows. You know how it goes.
I'm just hoping we land the first pick, that way Ainge won't have to give up much after he signs Hayward and packages #1 plus Crowder for his all star.
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Lonzo's father seems to be a handful...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18901427/lavar-ball-seeks-combined-1-billion-shoe-deal-three-sons
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If by handful, you mean a dic k head, then yes, I agree.
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Lonzo's father seems to be a handful...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18901427/lavar-ball-seeks-combined-1-billion-shoe-deal-three-sons
seems like he is using his kids for personal financial gain. It's amazes me how asinine and narrow minded his comments are. He comes off as delusional, recently he claimed he can beat Jordan in a game of 1 on 1 in their respective primes. Imagine having to deal with his BS if the celtics draft Lonzo and ends up riding the bench all season. Lamar wouldn't have the mental capacity to deal with the idea of his son coming off of the bench.
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yeah. just read the 1 billion $ shoe deal story. Wow.
ball's dad seems crazy enough that I'd pass on taking this kid. Its not gonna work out in boston. Clearly they want LA and i think LA is a good fit for them and can keep them . :)
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Man, I really like Lonzo's game - wouldn't touch him with a twelve foot pole now though.
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Ball's value is going to drop..
Unless the Lakers don't care, but can you imagine if any team takes him and Ball's dad complains that his son isn't getting enough minutes or what not..
Teams definitely should be wary, and it's not on Lonzo Ball himself.
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Draft the kid, and then put out a hit on his father.
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Yeah imagine satch sullinger but 100x worse.
I would obiously still take him but good god is his dad annoying.
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Yeah imagine satch sullinger but 100x worse.
I would obiously still take him but good god is his dad annoying.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18901427/lavar-ball-seeks-combined-1-billion-shoe-deal-three-sons
hilarious
crazy dad alert
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If by handful, you mean a dic k head, then yes, I agree.
Handful of Balls.
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Since Johnson is running the Lakers now , if they get first pick , and they usually get anything they want or need and given Lonzos skill set , it's a forgone conclusion for me anyway , Johnson and Old Lady Buss will draft him.
I see us ending up with Jackson or Fultz .
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Since Johnson is running the Lakers now , if they get first pick , and they usually get anything they want or need and given Lonzos skill set , it's a forgone conclusion for me anyway , Johnson and Old Lady Buss will draft him.
I see us ending up with Jackson or Fultz .
Id be okay with that. Id be very okay with that.
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In all seriousness, I'm set with Lonzo Ball now. He could be a better version of Jason Kidd and I'd still stay away. LaVar Ball can't control himself and is an unnecessary distraction.
He reminds me of those crazy parents in that documentary "Trophy Kids"
A BILLION dollars? Get real.
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Am I the only one that doesn't actually mind his father?
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Am I the only one that doesn't actually mind his father?
Yes
Either this is all an elaborate act so he drops to the Lakers wherever they pick or he is batsh*t crazy.
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Am I the only one that doesn't actually mind his father?
You are the only one who thinks lots of things :)
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In all seriousness, I'm set with Lonzo Ball now. He could be a better version of Jason Kidd and I'd still stay away. LaVar Ball can't control himself and is an unnecessary distraction.
He reminds me of those crazy parents in that documentary "Trophy Kids"
A BILLION dollars? Get real.
Tp mean green. A friend of mine actually made that movie! Nice shout out!
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Draft the kid, and then put out a hit on his father.
If loving this comment is wrong than I don't wanna be right. Tp.
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I haven't followed this stuff closely but in general I'm like 1% as concerned about a head case parent than a head case player. If Lonzo's got his head on straight then his dad can be as bonkers as he wants.
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The father is the worst kind of sports father, but at least no one will take him seriously and he shouldn't have too much effect on his kids careers. Smarter people will step in.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You also say this as if Ball doesnt have issues in his game. Ball poor FT shooter. No mid range game at all so far. Doesnt beat people off the dribble. Creates very little separation from defender when he drives with the ball in his had. Doesnt finish in traffic well. Not sure he will be more than average defensively. Team has always fit around him, has yet to fit into a system.
Pluses. He has been able to win wherever he goes. His ugly shot goes in if he has space. Is good off the ball. Great vision and plays with pace.
Bottom line lets not think that everyone thinks he is a no brainer cus I sure and hell dont.
If you can't see that Ball is a future NBA star, then I question your ability to evaluate talent.
Tatum has improved his 3 point percentage to a solid rate. Ball is a basketball Genius. Not hard to see that if you watch a full game.
I think the correct internet response is: LUL
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You also say this as if Ball doesnt have issues in his game. Ball poor FT shooter. No mid range game at all so far. Doesnt beat people off the dribble. Creates very little separation from defender when he drives with the ball in his had. Doesnt finish in traffic well. Not sure he will be more than average defensively. Team has always fit around him, has yet to fit into a system.
Pluses. He has been able to win wherever he goes. His ugly shot goes in if he has space. Is good off the ball. Great vision and plays with pace.
Bottom line lets not think that everyone thinks he is a no brainer cus I sure and hell dont.
If you can't see that Ball is a future NBA star, then I question your ability to evaluate talent.
Tatum has improved his 3 point percentage to a solid rate. Ball is a basketball Genius. Not hard to see that if you watch a full game.
I think the correct internet response is: LUL
So Casper your saying he isn't a basketball Genius?
The issue is with his dad not his game.
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Wow! He's Coach Nick's favorite player in this draft!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F7zZL6QmQA
Funniest thing I've ever seen. People that don't think he's not the best player in the draft.
Now with Fultz having injury problems. Did you know this is Washingtons worse season in the 16 years they have had this head coach.
With the #1 overall pick? Something doesn't add up.
You can count on one hand the players with higher BBIQ than ball going back to the 1980s.
This kid truly is a basketball unicorn.
I'm nervous that he won't be able to create shots on offense. Everything he gets is off the pick and roll or on step backs. I'm worried that he won't come into the NBA and be able to create off the dribble.
I'm also worried that his shot mechanics will make it difficult for him to get off his shot when he dribbles to the right (since he brings the ball to his left then flings it across his body).
Fultz is on a terrible team, where UCLA is a great team. It makes it difficult to know how much of it is Ball making UCLA great and how much of it is Ball being on a great team.
I'm also not sure about Ball's defense.
I actually prefer both Jackson and Fultz to Ball because of those issues.
I agree, you can also add Tatum too that list of guys I'd take before him
Your absolutely nuts for taking Tatum before Ball.
The Tatum can't even shoot three's yet. He's super Evan Turner.
Meanwhile Ball has range from 30 plus feet, and he shoots .430% from downtown.
You also say this as if Ball doesnt have issues in his game. Ball poor FT shooter. No mid range game at all so far. Doesnt beat people off the dribble. Creates very little separation from defender when he drives with the ball in his had. Doesnt finish in traffic well. Not sure he will be more than average defensively. Team has always fit around him, has yet to fit into a system.
Pluses. He has been able to win wherever he goes. His ugly shot goes in if he has space. Is good off the ball. Great vision and plays with pace.
Bottom line lets not think that everyone thinks he is a no brainer cus I sure and hell dont.
If you can't see that Ball is a future NBA star, then I question your ability to evaluate talent.
Tatum has improved his 3 point percentage to a solid rate. Ball is a basketball Genius. Not hard to see that if you watch a full game.
I think the correct internet response is: LUL
So Casper your saying he isn't a basketball Genius?
The issue is with his dad not his game.
in what way is he a basketball genius? That time where he passes the ball to a guy for a wide open 3?
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Have you watched him play? If so how many games. He and Leaf transformed UCLA in one year.
He's avg 7.7 assists per game. The exact same number as kid his freshman year. Kidd avg 4 t.o. per game. Ball is at 2.5 T.o.
Ball is a better rebounder than Kidd also. Ball is a better free throw shooter at the same age. And Kidd shot .286% from three while ball is currently .410% on almost twice the attempts.
Would you agree that Kidd was a basketball Genius?
Magic Johnson freshman year.
17.1 ppg 7.6 rpg 7.9 apg
Kidd
13ppg 4.9 APG 7.7 apg
Ball
14.6 ppg 6.1 rpg 7.7 apg
Numbers don't lie. Hes right there with the best to ever do it at the same age.
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Seems like such a nice kid. He's embarrassed about his dad IMO.
Here is his coach talking about his defense at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=RXvRZ8n1s_U
I do think he has serious flaws in his game. Westbrook is his basketball hero. Kidd had flaws too.
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http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2017/3/14/14926168/lavar-ball-lonzo-dad-meme-twitter
Apparently, #LaVarBallSays is a thing now!
Gosh, I love the internet sometimes.
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I'd be freaking embarrassed too if my dad was saying stupid stuff, seeking he spotlight and appearing on sports shows. I'd tell him to go stay and home keep quiet.
Ball is so smooth, but it seems like Kidd had much quicker feet. Am I wrong on that?
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Whether or not Ball makes sense for our team - I don't see him mixing in with IT - having the right to draft him will be extremely valuable. I'd say half the teams in the NBA would want to make a deal with Danny for his rights.
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You can bet DA and CBS are watching him close and chomping at the bit to work him out and talk with him.
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I'd be freaking embarrassed too if my dad was saying stupid stuff, seeking he spotlight and appearing on sports shows. I'd tell him to go stay and home keep quiet.
Ball is so smooth, but it seems like Kidd had much quicker feet. Am I wrong on that?
No your right about Kidd's feet. Kidd set a more frantic pace too. Zo, is like the laid back road runner.
Ball will be listed at 6'6" in the NBA. Kidd and Ball have very different builds. Kidd had shorter legs and Arms but was built stronger.
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Whether or not Ball makes sense for our team - I don't see him mixing in with IT - having the right to draft him will be extremely valuable. I'd say half the teams in the NBA would want to make a deal with Danny for his rights.
TP Footney, however I disagree with how he would play with Thomas.
The type of player that he is Zo would pass it to Isaiah 100 times in a row to earn his trust.
Ball knows he's the best scorer on our team and he would rack up assists together with Thomas his wingman.
Ball would make Jaylen Brown an All Star. He would make Isaiah Thomas's job so much easier. IT may lead the league in scoring.
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?
Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.
Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.
You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?
Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.
Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.
You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
Ball is nowhere near those two...
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?
Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.
Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.
You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?
Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.
Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.
You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.
He's a Tier 1 prospect. There has only been 9 I believe in the last ten years.
Nobody is a sure thing, but he's a close as your going to get. He's the #2 prospect in a loaded draft.
Who would you take #2?
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?
Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.
Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.
You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.
He's a Tier 1 prospect. There has only been 9 I believe in the last ten years.
Nobody is a sure thing, but he's a close as your going to get. He's the #2 prospect in a loaded draft.
Who would you take #2?
This is what was written about a month ago:
"This year, there is still a major question among NBA scouts and GMs about whether there are any Tier 1 prospects. Most of the NBA people I spoke with were hesitant to make the call just yet and said they won't be sure until we get closer to the draft. However, Ball and Fultz have very high ceilings and pretty high floors. They received enough votes to rank here, despite a number of GMs and scouts ranking them as Tier 2 players.
Fultz's all-around game, athleticism and versatility make him a virtually can't-miss prospect. Ball's unique combination of size and court vision have some scouts comparing him to Jason Kidd with a jump shot.
"I'm not sure there are superstars in this draft," one GM said. "I'm not sure I see the guy that turns around a franchise. But both Ball and Fultz have that potential. The position that they play and the lack of great, young point guards right now in the league give them that potential. They could really lead a new generation of big, multi-positional point guards.""
keep in mind, at this point Harry Giles was a tier 2 prospect and Tatum, like Fultz and Ball split tier 1 and tier 2 votes. The gap wasnt huge even then. Lets not call Ball a tier 1 prospect untill he is one.
Then Tatum shot 38% from 3 on 4+ 3s per game and carried Duke to an ACC championship.
Id take either Jackson or Tatum 2nd. Im really starting to fall in love with Tatum's game. I worry about Jacksons shooting, but Balls weird jumper, defensive shortcomings and his inability to create his own shot really worry me.
I dont think theres really any gap at 2-4. Cant go wrong with any of those guys 3 terrific prospects.
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Lonzo has to be great .
There is no way his father Lavar could destroy Micheal Jordon in his day and his son not turn out to be great.
Listen to Lavar .... ;D
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
Like you Know what your talking about. So Jason Kidd or Magic Johnson wouldn't be effective in today's NBA?
Give me a break. And Ball is a lights out shooter from three. BTW an absolutely crucial skill in today's NBA.
Plus Ball was a much more efficient scorer than Kidd and scored more often.
You don't know what your talking about, and the top scouts agree with me.
As a general rule, the guy saying a 19 year old will be an all time great is they guy who doesnt know what hes talking about.
He's a Tier 1 prospect. There has only been 9 I believe in the last ten years.
Nobody is a sure thing, but he's a close as your going to get. He's the #2 prospect in a loaded draft.
Who would you take #2?
This is what was written about a month ago:
"This year, there is still a major question among NBA scouts and GMs about whether there are any Tier 1 prospects. Most of the NBA people I spoke with were hesitant to make the call just yet and said they won't be sure until we get closer to the draft. However, Ball and Fultz have very high ceilings and pretty high floors. They received enough votes to rank here, despite a number of GMs and scouts ranking them as Tier 2 players.
Fultz's all-around game, athleticism and versatility make him a virtually can't-miss prospect. Ball's unique combination of size and court vision have some scouts comparing him to Jason Kidd with a jump shot.
"I'm not sure there are superstars in this draft," one GM said. "I'm not sure I see the guy that turns around a franchise. But both Ball and Fultz have that potential. The position that they play and the lack of great, young point guards right now in the league give them that potential. They could really lead a new generation of big, multi-positional point guards.""
keep in mind, at this point Harry Giles was a tier 2 prospect and Tatum, like Fultz and Ball split tier 1 and tier 2 votes. The gap wasnt huge even then. Lets not call Ball a tier 1 prospect untill he is one.
Then Tatum shot 38% from 3 on 4+ 3s per game and carried Duke to an ACC championship.
Id take either Jackson or Tatum 2nd. Im really starting to fall in love with Tatum's game. I worry about Jacksons shooting, but Balls weird jumper, defensive shortcomings and his inability to create his own shot really worry me.
I dont think theres really any gap at 2-4. Cant go wrong with any of those guys 3 terrific prospects.
I also love Tatum right now. Jackson is cool too but more of a liability than Balls father.
It's a fantastic debate. I think this team could really use Tatum's talent. I think the pick will end up being Tatum or Ball.
And that makes me very happy either way.
Ball https://youtu.be/UIaQhMKFxWc
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I'm absolutely thrilled about Fultz, Ball, Tatum and Jackson being the top four prospects.
We literally can't lose. The point I want to make is, Ball would fit in seamlessly. He's not selfish at all.
The ball doesn't stick with Ball like It does with Rondo. He keeps the Ball moving and advances it whenever possible.
He knows every player on the team better than they know themselves. That's what makes you a Basketball Genius. Which he is.
Again I'd be thrilled with any of the top Four.
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http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/ainge-i-would-never-hold-players-family-against-him
Ainge truthful?
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http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/ainge-i-would-never-hold-players-family-against-him
Ainge truthful?
TP Tri-B. I said the same thing. I'm not going to let some attention seeking dad affect his draft status.
If he's my pick in Taking him without hesitation.
This video is good if you want a closer look at their family.
https://youtu.be/LEth-eCI8Lg
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http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/ainge-i-would-never-hold-players-family-against-him
Ainge truthful?
TP Tri-B. I said the same thing. I'm not going to let some attention seeking dad affect his draft status.
If he's my pick in Taking him without hesitation.
This video is good if you want a closer look at their family.
https://youtu.be/LEth-eCI8Lg
I would definitely ask Lonzo about it in the interviews to see how he responds. I would pass on Lonzo if he appears to be "a chip of the old block". That being said, Lonzo has fit right in at UCLA taking over control of the team without any issues. He seems to have a very different personality from his father.
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https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/news/steve-kerr-ball-brothers-would-benefit-from-lavars-silence-045012984.html
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here is an interesting article on ball's shooting. for me, one point worth considering on his unorthodox style is this:
"The step-back jumper is an aesthetically beautiful shot, especially this dagger against Oregon. But he doesn’t have many other shots off the dribble in his arsenal. Of his 53 attempts, 26 of them were step-backs, 17 were dribbling going toward his left, and 10 were straight pull-ups. None came going toward his right....Ball is constantly trying to go left."
https://theringer.com/lonzo-ball-ucla-shooting-mechanics-6eeda2ef3e41#.c6gmrmtxt
it is a good article and lays out ball's strengths and questions on offense. one sections talks about how the type of ball affects his shooting.
but, nothing is in the article on my biggest question on ball...his defense. sorry. ;D
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
I think guys like Harden and Westbrook are harder for their own teammates to deal with. With a guy like Harden or Westbrook you need to build your whole team around them and their style of play. If they aren't getting their touches they become unhappy. I think there is a reason Westbrook or Harden have never been on a championship team and that's due to their ball dominant style of play.
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That's a TP Jammer. Hyperbole, what a bunch of crap. I've dumped out more basketball intelligence that that dude has seen.
Ball is a very rare talent, flaws and all.
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
I think guys like Harden and Westbrook are harder for their own teammates to deal with. With a guy like Harden or Westbrook you need to build your whole team around them and their style of play. If they aren't getting their touches they become unhappy. I think there is a reason Westbrook or Harden have never been on a championship team and that's due to their ball dominant style of play.
May have to add IT to that assessment, LOL.
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That's a good point, Thomas scores more than Harden lol
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Watching Ball. Such a floor general. Even when he doesn't have the ball, he is directing the offense, telling them where to move the ball.
Coach's dream.
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Watching Ball. Such a floor general. Even when he doesn't have the ball, he is directing the offense, telling them where to move the ball.
Coach's dream.
Please draft this kid!
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Watching Ball. Such a floor general. Even when he doesn't have the ball, he is directing the offense, telling them where to move the ball.
Coach's dream.
That's a +1 to Footney and Chief. I'm a little surprised at the hate for Ball.
He has so many off the chart Celtic traits it would be a treat to watch.
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Watching Ball. Such a floor general. Even when he doesn't have the ball, he is directing the offense, telling them where to move the ball.
Coach's dream.
Please draft this kid!
he has sensational passing ability. no doubt. and he shoots 3 points very, very well.
but i dont see a careful discussion of the questions surrounding him, only adoration.
what of his defense? it has been characterized as indifferent. does he have the quickness to cover nba pgs? not a slam, simply a question.
he has not yet, ever, moved to his right in college ball to shoot a successful 3 pointer. he moves left, steps back, and that is about it. since he shoots from the left side of his head, can he move and shoot well going right? again, a question. has he proven he can move to the right and shoot the 3? this will be important in the nba.
questions are raisied on his ability to create his own shot. he may over come this with age and experience and time. i dont know. but, again, it is a question that needs to be looked at. not to condemn, but to better evaluate ball.
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Ball is playing right now in Tru tv.
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Watching Ball. Such a floor general. Even when he doesn't have the ball, he is directing the offense, telling them where to move the ball.
Coach's dream.
Please draft this kid!
he has sensational passing ability. no doubt. and he shoots 3 points very, very well.
but i dont see a careful discussion of the questions surrounding him, only adoration.
what of his defense? it has been characterized as indifferent. does he have the quickness to cover nba pgs? not a slam, simply a question.
he has not yet, ever, moved to his right in college ball to shoot a successful 3 pointer. he moves left, steps back, and that is about it. since he shoots from the left side of his head, can he move and shoot well going right? again, a question. has he proven he can move to the right and shoot the 3? this will be important in the nba.
questions are raisied on his ability to create his own shot. he may over come this with age and experience and time. i dont know. but, again, it is a question that needs to be looked at. not to condemn, but to better evaluate ball.
I hear you Hwang. +1. He's got very strange weaknesses. However he does shoot over .700% from 2 point range. So it's like hey kid go to the rim more bro, you don't miss.
His defense, I think his floor is good and his defensive potential is excellent. Hid coach said it's the most not talked about part of his game.
His height, Athleticism, anticipation, add his quickness on defense.
The can't go right thing is concerning.
Tonight he injured his hip, came back scored 15 points,4 boards, 3 assists, on six of seven shooting.
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
I think guys like Harden and Westbrook are harder for their own teammates to deal with. With a guy like Harden or Westbrook you need to build your whole team around them and their style of play. If they aren't getting their touches they become unhappy. I think there is a reason Westbrook or Harden have never been on a championship team and that's due to their ball dominant style of play.
That is poor argument. Lebron and Kyrie plays like Harden and Westbrook on offense. Lebron is better defensively by a lot though. Chris Paul hasn't won a championship. Same as Steve Nash. You cannot use that argument.
Oh and KG, basketball knowledge ::) You are so infatuated with Ball you just don't see the negatives. Im fine with picking Ball, but he is not as you guys worship him to be. That is reality. He is a good prospect, but he is not a sure thing, and yes it's a hyperbole by saying a college player who has never played a single NBA game will be better than one of the best ever at his position. If you cant fathom the truth in this statement, then your hopeless.
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Watching Ball. Such a floor general. Even when he doesn't have the ball, he is directing the offense, telling them where to move the ball.
Coach's dream.
Please draft this kid!
he has sensational passing ability. no doubt. and he shoots 3 points very, very well.
but i dont see a careful discussion of the questions surrounding him, only adoration.
what of his defense? it has been characterized as indifferent. does he have the quickness to cover nba pgs? not a slam, simply a question.
he has not yet, ever, moved to his right in college ball to shoot a successful 3 pointer. he moves left, steps back, and that is about it. since he shoots from the left side of his head, can he move and shoot well going right? again, a question. has he proven he can move to the right and shoot the 3? this will be important in the nba.
questions are raisied on his ability to create his own shot. he may over come this with age and experience and time. i dont know. but, again, it is a question that needs to be looked at. not to condemn, but to better evaluate ball.
I hear you Hwang. +1. He's got very strange weaknesses. However he does shoot over .700% from 2 point range. So it's like hey kid go to the rim more bro, you don't miss.
His defense, I think his floor is good and his defensive potential is excellent. Hid coach said it's the most not talked about part of his game.
His height, Athleticism, anticipation, add his quickness on defense.
The can't go right thing is concerning.
Tonight he injured his hip, came back scored 15 points,4 boards, 3 assists, on six of seven shooting.
Hwang + 2, have to admit you are one of the best on this forum...great analysis no ego or agendas.
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Please draft this kid!
I think his Dad, may hurt him in the draft in regards to Ainge.
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The days of a POINT running the entire offense without being a legitimate scoring threat is over. Sure, guys like Rondo still rack up assists and help out teammates to score. But with how the league has gone, its harder to dominate that way. Guys like Westbrook and Harden are harder to deal with because of their threat of scoring. Even guys like Smart generate a lot of his assists out of the post plays.
The idea that Ball, as he is right now, would make Brown an all-star is ridiculous hyperbole. Brown might be an all-star, but not because of a guard who doesnt create his own shot feeding him the ball. Ball might be Kidd-like someday but the comparison right now isn't right. Kidd is way better as a defender initially and also had a post game. Kidd was also a better passer.
Comparing two players esp in different eras early in their careers is not very Smart. A lot of guys with fancy college stats end up as busts, while some don't have sexy college numbers but end up as all-stars. You don't look at the numbers alone and say "he is a better rebounder than Kidd". Deandre Jordan averaged 6 rebounds a game in college. Does that mean Ball is better? That's a load of crap.
I think guys like Harden and Westbrook are harder for their own teammates to deal with. With a guy like Harden or Westbrook you need to build your whole team around them and their style of play. If they aren't getting their touches they become unhappy. I think there is a reason Westbrook or Harden have never been on a championship team and that's due to their ball dominant style of play.
That is poor argument. Lebron and Kyrie plays like Harden and Westbrook on offense. Lebron is better defensively by a lot though. Chris Paul hasn't won a championship. Same as Steve Nash. You cannot use that argument.
Oh and KG, basketball knowledge ::) You are so infatuated with Ball you just don't see the negatives. Im fine with picking Ball, but he is not as you guys worship him to be. That is reality. He is a good prospect, but he is not a sure thing, and yes it's a hyperbole by saying a college player who has never played a single NBA game will be better than one of the best ever at his position. If you cant fathom the truth in this statement, then your hopeless.
Please don't come at me like a clown 🤡.
It most cases you know by 19 years old if the kid has a chance to be great. LeBron nearly everyone knew he was going to be special in high school. Except you.
Durant, Wiggins, Irving, Paul, Iverson, Jordan, Magic. You Know when your watching a special talent by age 19. You wouldn't make a very good scout.
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last month....Ball vs Fultz highlights. Matchup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo5sMQLBK4Y
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Please draft this kid!
I think his Dad, may hurt him in the draft in regards to Ainge.
The Dad fits right in with the Lakers , loud and big mouth crowd Lakers is his dads best fit. But Lonzo is stable and could fit in anywhere.
I think CBS will be ga ga over his handles and passing plus team player concept .
I think CBS will get ...HIS man........
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Only three players in the last 25 years put up Ball type number. Ball is obviously one of them.
Guess the other two. One of them was a senior.
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Only three players in the last 25 years put up Ball type number. Ball is obviously one of them.
Guess the other two. One of them was a senior.
Jason Kidd and Denzel Valentine? Evan Turner maybe
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Only three players in the last 25 years put up Ball type number. Ball is obviously one of them.
Guess the other two. One of them was a senior.
Jason Kidd and Denzel Valentine? Evan Turner maybe
TP ILS. Valentine and Kidd. Again Denzel was a senior so it's really only two guys in 25 years that were underclassmen.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
To all the Ball haters. Can you imagine what Coach Brad could draw up with this guy?
It's insane. We would be unstoppable with Ball, IT and Steven's.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
stop.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
stop.
Nope. I'm with Lavar Ball on this one. Remember I said when his confidence is high Like it was tonight in the second half.
I know it will take some time for him to find that confidence in the NBA, but when he does it will be the same result. Dominating the game, unselfishly, it's amazing to watch.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
stop.
Nope. I'm with Lavar Ball on this one. Remember I said when his confidence is high Like it was tonight in the second half.
I know it will take some time for him to find that confidence in the NBA, but when he does it will be the same result. Dominating the game, unselfishly, it's amazing to watch.
This is one of the most flaming hot takes Ive seen in a while.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
stop.
Nope. I'm with Lavar Ball on this one. Remember I said when his confidence is high Like it was tonight in the second half.
I know it will take some time for him to find that confidence in the NBA, but when he does it will be the same result. Dominating the game, unselfishly, it's amazing to watch.
This is one of the most flaming hot takes Ive seen in a while.
Live shot of KGLL
(https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/xxx_3298_43478883-e1466525986841.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1)
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Bahaha Chipotle! You got me. Skip Bayless I am. I'm everywhere!
And please define Flaming hot take ILS.
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Big game next for Ball
Ucla vs Kentucky
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
stop.
Nope. I'm with Lavar Ball on this one. Remember I said when his confidence is high Like it was tonight in the second half.
I know it will take some time for him to find that confidence in the NBA, but when he does it will be the same result. Dominating the game, unselfishly, it's amazing to watch.
I don't think Ball will have a problem with confidence. You can just see it in his face. It might take some time for him to find an NBA body, however.
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Wow! He was on another level yesterday!!
Just like RUN-DMC said:
He's the king of the court, there is none higher
Sucker opponents should call him sire
To burn his game, you must use fire
He won't stop ballin' till he retires
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXzWlPL_TKw
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
To all the Ball haters. Can you imagine what Coach Brad could draw up with this guy?
It's insane. We would be unstoppable with Ball, IT and Steven's.
Kg, since you watched the entire game, did ball shoot a three pointer while moving right? How was his defense? Did he drive. To the basket often?
Thanks in advance.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
To all the Ball haters. Can you imagine what Coach Brad could draw up with this guy?
It's insane. We would be unstoppable with Ball, IT and Steven's.
Kg, since you watched the entire game, did ball shoot a three pointer while moving right? How was his defense? Did he drive. To the basket often?
Thanks in advance.
I watched the second half, no shooting moving right, his defense looked good, had one nice drive and finish and a couple drive and kicks. Get's amazing separation with his step back 3.
Sure there's stuff to pick at with him, and as someone noted above he needs serious work with a trainer who is not his dad, but there is a skill set there I haven't seen in a long time.
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thanks chili. a tp for the analysis.
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I was watching the Duke game primarily but was switching back to watch this one occasionally. I have to say maybe I missed it but the small sample size that I watched Lonzo didn't play "any" defense at all. I saw him hit those two consecutive dagger 3's in the second half but I didn't see any defense.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
To all the Ball haters. Can you imagine what Coach Brad could draw up with this guy?
It's insane. We would be unstoppable with Ball, IT and Steven's.
Kg, since you watched the entire game, did ball shoot a three pointer while moving right? How was his defense? Did he drive. To the basket often?
Thanks in advance.
+1 for the thanks in advance. Actually he did not hit a shot going left I was looking for that all game.
Steve Smith commented on he was amazed how much separation ball was getting, and also said Ball is real life is the truth.
His defense is very good to my eye. He competes, even played good post defense. It's his BBIQ that makes him so good on D.
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Really looking forward to the game on Friday. He'll be going against the most talented team he's played in the tournament in Kentucky, and he'll be guarded by Fox who is more athletic than he is. I have the most Q's about Ball of any top 4 prospect but still think he could end up the best.
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Really looking forward to the game on Friday. He'll be going against the most talented team he's played in the tournament in Kentucky, and he'll be guarded by Fox who is more athletic than he is. I have the most Q's about Ball of any top 4 prospect but still think he could end up the best.
Fox is flying under the radar. He has John Wall level potential in my opinion.
Even more unbelievable is that I still dont have him in the top 4.
A truly terrific draft to be anywhere in the top 8 or so.
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Great game by Ball in UCLA over Cincinnati. 18-7-9 and it looked better than that. Wow.
Plus One Liam. Just finishing the game now on DVR. Just controls the game, when his confidence is high, he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now.
Best player in the Draft.
To all the Ball haters. Can you imagine what Coach Brad could draw up with this guy?
It's insane. We would be unstoppable with Ball, IT and Steven's.
Kg, since you watched the entire game, did ball shoot a three pointer while moving right? How was his defense? Did he drive. To the basket often?
Thanks in advance.
+1 for the thanks in advance. Actually he did not hit a shot going left I was looking for that all game.
Steve Smith commented on he was amazed how much separation ball was getting, and also said Ball is real life is the truth.
His defense is very good to my eye. He competes, even played good post defense. It's his BBIQ that makes him so good on D.
Ball would pair so well with Bradley!
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Really looking forward to the game on Friday. He'll be going against the most talented team he's played in the tournament in Kentucky, and he'll be guarded by Fox who is more athletic than he is. I have the most Q's about Ball of any top 4 prospect but still think he could end up the best.
Ball has played plenty of talented backcourt's this season, Washington (Fultz), USC, Oregon, Arizona and even Kentucky. He hasn't looked overmatched in any of them that I've seen.
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Ball vs Monk
Sweet
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Bahaha Chipotle! You got me. Skip Bayless I am. I'm everywhere!
And please define Flaming hot take ILS.
claiming that when Ball is confident, "he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now." is a hot take perhaps to hot even for Skip Bayless.
A man famous for his hot takes.
Lonzo Ball is 19. There is no way he can hang with top 10 NBA players right now.
Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, KD, Harden, Russ, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Wall, Thomas are all light years ahead of Ball right now and thats not even including guys like Butler and George and Kyrie and Lowry and Millsap and Chris Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing Paul and Blake Griffin and Joel Embiid and all the other studs that I am forgetting right now.
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Bahaha Chipotle! You got me. Skip Bayless I am. I'm everywhere!
And please define Flaming hot take ILS.
claiming that when Ball is confident, "he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now." is a hot take perhaps to hot even for Skip Bayless.
A man famous for his hot takes.
Lonzo Ball is 19. There is no way he can hang with top 10 NBA players right now.
Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, KD, Harden, Russ, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Wall, Thomas are all light years ahead of Ball right now and thats not even including guys like Butler and George and Kyrie and Lowry and Millsap and Chris ****ing Paul and Blake Griffin and Joel Embiid and all the other studs that I am forgetting right now.
Respectfully disagree. You'll see when Ball gets to the league.
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Bahaha Chipotle! You got me. Skip Bayless I am. I'm everywhere!
And please define Flaming hot take ILS.
claiming that when Ball is confident, "he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now." is a hot take perhaps to hot even for Skip Bayless.
A man famous for his hot takes.
Lonzo Ball is 19. There is no way he can hang with top 10 NBA players right now.
Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, KD, Harden, Russ, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Wall, Thomas are all light years ahead of Ball right now and thats not even including guys like Butler and George and Kyrie and Lowry and Millsap and Chris ****ing Paul and Blake Griffin and Joel Embiid and all the other studs that I am forgetting right now.
Respectfully disagree. You'll see when Ball gets to the league.
alright. obviously youve got every right to believe that Lonzo Ball will be better as a rookie than Lebron James thats fine. I just think its a bit absurd.
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Bahaha Chipotle! You got me. Skip Bayless I am. I'm everywhere!
And please define Flaming hot take ILS.
claiming that when Ball is confident, "he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now." is a hot take perhaps to hot even for Skip Bayless.
A man famous for his hot takes.
Lonzo Ball is 19. There is no way he can hang with top 10 NBA players right now.
Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, KD, Harden, Russ, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Wall, Thomas are all light years ahead of Ball right now and thats not even including guys like Butler and George and Kyrie and Lowry and Millsap and Chris ****ing Paul and Blake Griffin and Joel Embiid and all the other studs that I am forgetting right now.
He thinks Ball is at Lebrons level prior to being drafted.... You think this is not true
Lets see what happens next season
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One thing about Ball that no one can dispute so far is....he is a winner
Ucla vs Kentucky should be a top game
But the one I would love to see is Ucla vs Kansas... Ball vs Jackson
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Ball reminds me of John Wall except that;
-he can't score off the dribble and doesn't have the handles that Wall has but,
- he has the 3 point shot that Wall didn't have.
I think he's very very over rated right now against these awful college defenses.
He is not a top 10 player in the world right now though.
Top 5 college player yes.
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Bahaha Chipotle! You got me. Skip Bayless I am. I'm everywhere!
And please define Flaming hot take ILS.
claiming that when Ball is confident, "he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now." is a hot take perhaps to hot even for Skip Bayless.
A man famous for his hot takes.
Lonzo Ball is 19. There is no way he can hang with top 10 NBA players right now.
Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, KD, Harden, Russ, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Wall, Thomas are all light years ahead of Ball right now and thats not even including guys like Butler and George and Kyrie and Lowry and Millsap and Chris ****ing Paul and Blake Griffin and Joel Embiid and all the other studs that I am forgetting right now.
Respectfully disagree. You'll see when Ball gets to the league.
alright. obviously youve got every right to believe that Lonzo Ball will be better as a rookie than Lebron James thats fine. I just think its a bit absurd.
I definitely didn't say that. LeBron is the true phenom. Still remember those high school games on ESPN.
Talk about the chosen one. I've still never seen any other player in ESPN in high school.
My point is besides the top five players in the league, he's going to be right there with the very best in the world.
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Quote
One thing about Ball that no one can dispute so far is....he is a winner
True, he can't pick his father...
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Shouldn't this be named the "Lonzo Ball + LaVar Ball Thread" :laugh:
2-for-1 package deal right there.
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Shouldn't this be named the "Lonzo Ball + LaVar Ball Thread" :laugh:
2-for-1 package deal right there.
Plus his two brothers lol
Cbs : lonzo what is your whole family doing here at practice? Why is your dad here??
Dannnnnny!
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Shouldn't this be named the "Lonzo Ball + LaVar Ball Thread" :laugh:
2-for-1 package deal right there.
Plus his two brothers lol
Cbs : lonzo what is your whole family doing here at practice? Why is your dad here??
Dannnnnny!
"My boys can be your next BIG 3, Danny" - LaVar :laugh:
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Shouldn't this be named the "Lonzo Ball + LaVar Ball Thread" :laugh:
2-for-1 package deal right there.
Plus his two brothers lol
Cbs : lonzo what is your whole family doing here at practice? Why is your dad here??
Dannnnnny!
"My boys can be your next BIG 3, Danny" - LaVar :laugh:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/04/61/7a/04617a865436a011f8657d089417fd2c.jpg)
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Really looking forward to the game on Friday. He'll be going against the most talented team he's played in the tournament in Kentucky, and he'll be guarded by Fox who is more athletic than he is. I have the most Q's about Ball of any top 4 prospect but still think he could end up the best.
Ball has played plenty of talented backcourt's this season, Washington (Fultz), USC, Oregon, Arizona and even Kentucky. He hasn't looked overmatched in any of them that I've seen.
Agreed, but he played Kentucky awhile ago and they start 3 freshman, who I think have made strides since then. I'm specifically interested in the Fox matchup due to Fox's speed and athleticism. I want to see what Lonzo can do offensively besides his step back / deep 3s.
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Bahaha Chipotle! You got me. Skip Bayless I am. I'm everywhere!
And please define Flaming hot take ILS.
claiming that when Ball is confident, "he's one of the top ten players in the world, right now." is a hot take perhaps to hot even for Skip Bayless.
A man famous for his hot takes.
Lonzo Ball is 19. There is no way he can hang with top 10 NBA players right now.
Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, KD, Harden, Russ, Anthony Davis, Giannis, Wall, Thomas are all light years ahead of Ball right now and thats not even including guys like Butler and George and Kyrie and Lowry and Millsap and Chris ****ing Paul and Blake Griffin and Joel Embiid and all the other studs that I am forgetting right now.
Respectfully disagree. You'll see when Ball gets to the league.
alright. obviously youve got every right to believe that Lonzo Ball will be better as a rookie than Lebron James thats fine. I just think its a bit absurd.
I definitely didn't say that. LeBron is the true phenom. Still remember those high school games on ESPN.
Talk about the chosen one. I've still never seen any other player in ESPN in high school.
My point is besides the top five players in the league, he's going to be right there with the very best in the world.
Lebron didn't make an all-NBA team as a rookie. You say Lonzo will be a top 10 guy as a rookie. 15 players make all-NBA teams.
We aren't going to get anywhere on this debate obviously, so we will leave it here.
I think you are vastly overrating him. We shall see. If we draft him I'll hope you are correct. If LA or Philly draft him I'll start praying for a bust.
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Jimmy Patsos, head coach at Sienna, TV analyst, and Celtic fan, hopes Boston drafts Ball. Says he'd be great playing with IT. A link to his assessment is below. It does not have him specifically mention about him pairing up nicely with IT, but my brother in law, who lives in LA (thinks we should definitely take Ball), heard Patsos say that in a recent broadcast.
http://gioandjones.radio.cbssports.com/2017/03/20/jimmy-patsos-lonzo-ball-is-like-jason-kidd/
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Anyone who thinks that any college player is "top 10 in the world right now" is drinking the spiked Kool-Aid awfully hard and needs to see someone for treatment.
The last guy who might be able to claim that was Lebron almost 15 years ago. And that year Pierce, Kobe, Shaq, Garnett, McGrady, Carter, Duncan and Dirk were clearly better. Add in Starbury, Peja, Kidd, Iverson (48 games) and it's not clear that even a once in a generation talent like Lebron was top 10. He certainly wasn't top 10 the YEAR BEFORE he went to the NBA.
Laughable.
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Jimmy Patsos, head coach at Sienna, TV analyst, and Celtic fan, hopes Boston drafts Ball. Says he'd be great playing with IT. A link to his assessment is below. It does not have him specifically mention about him pairing up nicely with IT, but my brother in law, who lives in LA (thinks we should definitely take Ball), heard Patsos say that in a recent broadcast.
http://gioandjones.radio.cbssports.com/2017/03/20/jimmy-patsos-lonzo-ball-is-like-jason-kidd/
TP Footney. An I will clarify since I did say when his confidence is high Like it was vs Cincinnati.
Ball will become a top 10 player in the league at some point. Hope that makes you feel better.
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Ball will become a top 10 player in the league at some point. Hope that makes you feel better.
That's a more plausible statement. He does appear to be special.
Note that both Fultz and Ball rank higher than Simmons in projecting their professional careers by some experts. I really hope we wind up with one of the two.
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Ball will become a top 10 player in the league at some point. Hope that makes you feel better.
That's a more plausible statement. He does appear to be special.
Note that both Fultz and Ball rank higher than Simmons in projecting their professional careers by some experts. I really hope we wind up with one of the two.
Exactly. I get carried away talking about Ball, cause I love his game that much. I would take him over Simmons for sure.
Rare talent. Please Lord a top two pick would be amazing.
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I'm leaning towards the Celtics drafting either Fultz or Ball. I feel both, can be considered a notch above the pack. Lonzo looks like a special talent already, he already plays with NBA pace. I would be thrilled with either player. But Ball, who is considered to be similar to J. Kidd, could actually develop into Magic.
My problem is, Lonzo's dad is trouble waiting to happen. This guy needs a muzzle. His loud, crude, know it all mouth will have to be dealt with, sooner or later, as he begins second guessing GM's and coaches where ever his son lands.
He's already said he wants his son to go to the Lakers, frankly that would be the worst thing that could happen to Lonzo, his best bet is to play thousands of miles away from his blow-hard father, and pray the press simply ignores his dad. We all know, that ain't gonna happen.
Will having to deal with his father, sway you away from drafting Lonzo?
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Ball rocked by Fox . Kentucky moves on
Ball with 10 pts
Fox with 39 pts
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Fox play n like IT .....kid destroyed UCLA .....and he made it look pretty easy doing it IMO
Fultz
Jackson
Fox
Ball s release is TOO low , guys in the NBA won't allow that crappy lob .....guys in NBA ...too long , fast and strong to let him use that .
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I hate to use the term exposed because it's probably a bit strong but this was the Lonzo Ball we detractors have been expecting to eventually show up based on the glaring limitations is game. Nearly all of his three-point attempts for either blocked or bothered, he could create separation against Kentucky' long defenders, and he failed to get to the line consistently.
Fox was electric and made Lonzo look ordinary at best. This game was akin to Hakeem Olajuwan wiping the floor with David Robinson after Robinson got the MVP. Just get the impression that De'Aaron was sick and tired of hearing about the Lonzo Ball show.
Go KU!
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Ball dropping like the BALL at Madison Square Garden bringing in the New Year:-)))
This came out BEFORE the game even ended!!!!
Down to #2 and will likely drop lower in my estimation if KY continues to roll!!!
Fox going UP, UP, and AWAY!!!
http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft
Smitty77
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down to 2? what are you smoking. He was never at 1.
Fultz is 1. I hope we get him. Not even close. This is a one man draft.
Fultz
Jackson.
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Anyone who thinks that any college player is "top 10 in the world right now" is drinking the spiked Kool-Aid awfully hard and needs to see someone for treatment.
The last guy who might be able to claim that was Lebron almost 15 years ago. And that year Pierce, Kobe, Shaq, Garnett, McGrady, Carter, Duncan and Dirk were clearly better. Add in Starbury, Peja, Kidd, Iverson (48 games) and it's not clear that even a once in a generation talent like Lebron was top 10. He certainly wasn't top 10 the YEAR BEFORE he went to the NBA.
Laughable.
LeBron went to College? and all this time I thought he went to the NBA out of high school
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I'm leaning towards the Celtics drafting either Fultz or Ball. I feel both, can be considered a notch above the pack. Lonzo looks like a special talent already, he already plays with NBA pace. I would be thrilled with either player. But Ball, who is considered to be similar to J. Kidd, could actually develop into Magic.
My problem is, Lonzo's dad is trouble waiting to happen. This guy needs a muzzle. His loud, crude, know it all mouth will have to be dealt with, sooner or later, as he begins second guessing GM's and coaches where ever his son lands.
He's already said he wants his son to go to the Lakers, frankly that would be the worst thing that could happen to Lonzo, his best bet is to play thousands of miles away from his blow-hard father, and pray the press simply ignores his dad. We all know, that ain't gonna happen.
Will having to deal with his father, sway you away from drafting Lonzo?
Ball could develop into Magic? How old are you, and/or what are you smoking? What is wrong with you people. Stop comparing ordinary players to once-in-a-lifetime league altering phenomenal players. 'Ball could develop into Magic'?? The very essence of Magic Johnson is that you do not develop into Magic. You are either Magic or you are not. Honestly some people just type BS and it really is getting old. It is one of the worst insults I have seen on here to say Ball could develop into Magic. You do not develop into Magic.
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down to 2? what are you smoking. He was never at 1.
Fultz is 1. I hope we get him. Not even close. This is a one man draft.
Fultz
Jackson.
Jackson says hi
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Fultz
Jackson
Fox
These please.
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Fultz
Jackson
Fox
These please.
It is clear now that KGLL is related to Ball family. Glad Danny is going to stay as far away from this looming disaster as possible. My prayer is that the Lakers get Ball.
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Fultz
Jackson
Fox
These please.
It is clear now that KGLL is related to Ball family. Glad Danny is going to stay as far away from this looming disaster as possible. My prayer is that the Lakers get Ball.
Wait, what did I do this time? Fox was brilliant. I saw a little bit of quit in Ball tonight.
Lavar Balls big mouth caught up with him.
Disappointed by his defensive effort, he was challenging shots, but I got the sense that Ball wasn't trying that hard to win.
Hats off to Fox though, what a performance. He gave Ball and his loudmouth dad a taste of why you should be humble.
Ball still will make a great pro. The defensive effort was concerning though. What kind of defender is Fultz? I've seen some great chase down blocks, but would like to know more about his man to man defense.
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I think Barkley nailed it when he said force him to his right. The weird shot makes him want to go left.
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I'm leaning towards the Celtics drafting either Fultz or Ball. I feel both, can be considered a notch above the pack. Lonzo looks like a special talent already, he already plays with NBA pace. I would be thrilled with either player. But Ball, who is considered to be similar to J. Kidd, could actually develop into Magic.
My problem is, Lonzo's dad is trouble waiting to happen. This guy needs a muzzle. His loud, crude, know it all mouth will have to be dealt with, sooner or later, as he begins second guessing GM's and coaches where ever his son lands.
He's already said he wants his son to go to the Lakers, frankly that would be the worst thing that could happen to Lonzo, his best bet is to play thousands of miles away from his blow-hard father, and pray the press simply ignores his dad. We all know, that ain't gonna happen.
Will having to deal with his father, sway you away from drafting Lonzo?
Ball could develop into Magic? How old are you, and/or what are you smoking? What is wrong with you people. Stop comparing ordinary players to once-in-a-lifetime league altering phenomenal players. 'Ball could develop into Magic'?? The very essence of Magic Johnson is that you do not develop into Magic. You are either Magic or you are not. Honestly some people just type BS and it really is getting old. It is one of the worst insults I have seen on here to say Ball could develop into Magic. You do not develop into Magic.
You have a valid point Ogaju. I hate the comparisons too. The funny thing is that Lonzo's daddy said he was "Magic Johnson WITH A JUMPSHOT!!" Now how does Magic actually feel about that when he can draft a version of himself WITH A JUMPSHOT!! :police:
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Magic Johnson can have Ball. He ll need , as Rondo did hall of famers to make his tricks work.
Balls game goes not appear to be the new NBA small ball game . He would fit well on Pelicans , maybe Jazz.
He did not have the mindset to punch back harder , take over, afterall ....you take a guy #1 , he better be a floor general or a crazy Harden or Curry scorer. I did not see him aggressive to score . He relied on his 7 ft guys to play big and catch his lobs.
A different kind of player , but not sure if he is special as Magic , MJ , Bird , Kobe, etc.
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I think Barkley nailed it when he said force him to his right. The weird shot makes him want to go left.
Hwangji has been saying that all season.
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Can't read too much into one game.
The question on Fox has always been his jump shot. Form is good, but results haven't been, until the tournament. With a good shot, he's a top 5 pick for me.
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Fultz
Jackson
Fox
These please.
It is clear now that KGLL is related to Ball family. Glad Danny is going to stay as far away from this looming disaster as possible. My prayer is that the Lakers get Ball.
Wait, what did I do this time? Fox was brilliant. I saw a little bit of quit in Ball tonight.
Lavar Balls big mouth caught up with him.
Disappointed by his defensive effort, he was challenging shots, but I got the sense that Ball wasn't trying that hard to win.
Hats off to Fox though, what a performance. He gave Ball and his loudmouth dad a taste of why you should be humble.
Ball still will make a great pro. The defensive effort was concerning though. What kind of defender is Fultz? I've seen some great chase down blocks, but would like to know more about his man to man defense.
His D effort was so so no doubt
He just wants to play street ball out there it looks like
If you bother his jump shot , he is going to have a hard time (like last night)
Tbh I think like Buddy Hield (plus his Dad baggage), he is going to drop come draft night
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Fultz
Jackson
Fox
These please.
It is clear now that KGLL is related to Ball family. Glad Danny is going to stay as far away from this looming disaster as possible. My prayer is that the Lakers get Ball.
Wait, what did I do this time? Fox was brilliant. I saw a little bit of quit in Ball tonight.
Lavar Balls big mouth caught up with him.
Disappointed by his defensive effort, he was challenging shots, but I got the sense that Ball wasn't trying that hard to win.
Hats off to Fox though, what a performance. He gave Ball and his loudmouth dad a taste of why you should be humble.
Ball still will make a great pro. The defensive effort was concerning though. What kind of defender is Fultz? I've seen some great chase down blocks, but would like to know more about his man to man defense.
His D effort was so so no doubt
He just wants to play street ball out there it looks like
If you bother his jump shot , he is going to have a hard time (like last night)
Tbh I think like Buddy Hield (plus his Dad baggage), he is going to drop come draft night
Buddy didnt really drop on draft night. He was in the 3-8 range predraft and thats where he went.
The fact that Ball cant score going to his right is really bad. The fact that his effort was so-so in the sweet 16 in a game where he had a chance to prove that he can defend and score on NBA level athletes is worse.
bad bad look for Lonzo.
Still a top-4 pick for me. Easy too.
Id probably take Jackson or Tatum over him tho.
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Does Ball's father annoy you enough to sway you away from Lonzo?
This guy now has the ear of the sports media, and he loves it. If his kid doesn't go to his "Lakers" is he going to be the loudest back seat driver of all time?
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Does Ball's father annoy you enough to sway you away from Lonzo?
This guy now has the ear of the sports media, and he loves it. If his kid doesn't go to his "Lakers" is he going to be the loudest back seat driver of all time?
Yeah totally, at this point Lavar is more "famous" than Lonzo. Lavar would go ballistic if he hears that Lonzo would be coming off the bench for like 2 seasons at Boston.
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Does Ball's father annoy you enough to sway you away from Lonzo?
This guy now has the ear of the sports media, and he loves it. If his kid doesn't go to his "Lakers" is he going to be the loudest back seat driver of all time?
I hope he does go to the Lakers
It will be just another impediment to their three ring circus
Lavar + Magic Johnson + plus That Buss Woman .......what a riot. .....they all deserve each other.
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You know there is a problem when the thread is supposed to discuss Lonzo but most of the talk is about Lavar. I hope Danny stays clear of these guys.
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I wonder IF Danny has Ball penciled in as a Celtics pick in the top Four at this point :o
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I've had Ball at #3 for a while, but I'm leaning toward putting him at #4 now.
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Good god, read this article about "the dad."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/03/23/coaching-lavar-balls-sons-inside-high-school-basketballs-most-chaotic-303-season/99543018/
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You guys ever think that maybe... he didn't want to look that favorable and maybe slide to the Lakers? I know it sounds ridiculous, but if his dad is going to force his way, his terrible outing could help guarantee it.
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Guaranty Ball goes top 3 and probably top 2.
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You guys ever think that maybe... he didn't want to look that favorable and maybe slide to the Lakers? I know it sounds ridiculous, but if his dad is going to force his way, his terrible outing could help guarantee it.
If he did ...mission accomplished
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Good god, read this article about "the dad."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/03/23/coaching-lavar-balls-sons-inside-high-school-basketballs-most-chaotic-303-season/99543018/
TP for posting that article, but now it just makes me want to stay as far away from Lavar as possible - YIKES! :o
Hopefully he would respect Brad more than Gilling.
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I want no part of this kid - between his wacked-out daddy and his lack of defensive grit, he is not going to fit in with our current group. Then, there is that weird shooting form - is that gonna fly in the pros ?
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
Huh ? My understanding is just the opposite.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
Huh ? My understanding is just the opposite.
Lonzo is the best. The little brother has a chance, he's really crafty, but he's tiny and not as athletic.
The other brother is a Power player but is severely undersized to play PF.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
Huh ? My understanding is just the opposite.
Lonzo is the best. The little brother has a chance, he's really crafty, but he's tiny and not as athletic.
The other brother is a Power player but is severely undersized to play PF.
The little brother isn't so tiny. He was last year, but he has grown a lot. If you watch this video from Christmas, you'll see he's only a few inches or so shorter than Lonzo.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bBrHcsxSirw
He's listed at 6'3" now which might be an exaggeration, but he looks like he's over 6 feet and likely still growing as he's only 15.
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His high school team had his brothers, who many believe will be better than Lonzo.
Huh ? My understanding is just the opposite.
Lonzo is the best. The little brother has a chance, he's really crafty, but he's tiny and not as athletic.
The other brother is a Power player but is severely undersized to play PF.
The little brother isn't so tiny. He was last year, but he has grown a lot. If you watch this video from Christmas, you'll see he's only a few inches or so shorter than Lonzo.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bBrHcsxSirw
He's listed at 6'3" now which might be an exaggeration, but he looks like he's over 6 feet and likely still growing as he's only 15.
I just noticed that Knuckle. TP.
Lonzo is the same height as Kobe! I couldn't believe that. I Know they listed Ball as 6'6" all year but I didn't believe it until I saw that picture with Kobe yesterday.
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Lonzo Ball recently remarked “At the end of the day, I’ll play for any team,” Ball told the crew on “First Take.” “The NBA is the NBA, but it would be a blessing to be able to play for the Lakers just because it’s in L.A., I’m from here, my whole family’s here.”
Kid grown and raised in LA, went to school for UCLA, and to be drafted by the Lakers would be somewhat short of an amazing story for the Lakers. Given the skill redundancies of Russell and Fultz (score first guards who aren't as good as facilitating), I'm growing to think that the Lakers may end up preferring Ball over Fultz. So maybe that bodes well for our desire to land Fultz even if we end up with #2, given that we have a 46.5% chance of landing 1 or 2.
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You know there is a problem when the thread is supposed to discuss Lonzo but most of the talk is about Lavar. I hope Danny stays clear of these guys.
The more I look at the differences between LaVar and Lonzo's demeanor in interviews, the more I just see it as a total act. I think his dad is purposely doing this to see if his son acts up in the media and lose his cool over his dad. Lonzo has been handling it LIKE A PRO. Giving the right answers and acting totally humble about it. Maybe its just his dad training him to handle the media LIKE A PRO by talking all this trash and going on to shows like First Take to make all this noise. It's sort of unorthodox, but when you think about it, it kind of makes a lot of sense...
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You know there is a problem when the thread is supposed to discuss Lonzo but most of the talk is about Lavar. I hope Danny stays clear of these guys.
The more I look at the differences between LaVar and Lonzo's demeanor in interviews, the more I just see it as a total act. I think his dad is purposely doing this to see if his son acts up in the media and lose his cool over his dad. Lonzo has been handling it LIKE A PRO. Giving the right answers and acting totally humble about it. Maybe its just his dad training him to handle the media LIKE A PRO by talking all this trash and going on to shows like First Take to make all this noise. It's sort of unorthodox, but when you think about it, it kind of makes a lot of sense...
I don't think it's an act, I've seen some youtube video's of him playing ball (he's not good)but after the games his mouth is flapping.
He might be blowing it up a bit, but I think he's pretty much a loud mouth. But yet I could still be wrong considering he boy isn't the same way.
The middle kid is more of a PF and is lazy, does post moves on the 3pt line and then shoots it. Can shoot the lights out if open, but thats about it. The youngest looks like he could be something, but he's still too young.
But I'm not sure how much of a dynasty his boys will produce when done, not quite writen in stone Like their pops thinks.
Either Lavar is a mad genius, or batcrap crazy. Either way I don't want this guy any wheres near the C's.
But I do want to see Smart D the crap out of this kid.
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You know there is a problem when the thread is supposed to discuss Lonzo but most of the talk is about Lavar. I hope Danny stays clear of these guys.
The more I look at the differences between LaVar and Lonzo's demeanor in interviews, the more I just see it as a total act. I think his dad is purposely doing this to see if his son acts up in the media and lose his cool over his dad. Lonzo has been handling it LIKE A PRO. Giving the right answers and acting totally humble about it. Maybe its just his dad training him to handle the media LIKE A PRO by talking all this trash and going on to shows like First Take to make all this noise. It's sort of unorthodox, but when you think about it, it kind of makes a lot of sense...
Your over thinking it. His dad is a collosal loud mouth jerk and always has been. Lonzo is the opposite. Simple as that.
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You know there is a problem when the thread is supposed to discuss Lonzo but most of the talk is about Lavar. I hope Danny stays clear of these guys.
The more I look at the differences between LaVar and Lonzo's demeanor in interviews, the more I just see it as a total act. I think his dad is purposely doing this to see if his son acts up in the media and lose his cool over his dad. Lonzo has been handling it LIKE A PRO. Giving the right answers and acting totally humble about it. Maybe its just his dad training him to handle the media LIKE A PRO by talking all this trash and going on to shows like First Take to make all this noise. It's sort of unorthodox, but when you think about it, it kind of makes a lot of sense...
Your over thinking it. His dad is a collosal loud mouth jerk and always has been. Lonzo is the opposite. Simple as that.
The dad is a loudmouth jerk, but nearly all his comments are calculated.
he doesnt believe half the stuff he says and I think he has coached lonzo to say the right thing.
This way he can serve as Lonzo's own hype man building the brand etc etc while Lonzo can stay clear of most of the backlash because it is directed more at Lavar.
i mean after Lonzo lost in a bad performance against Kentucky, people called out lavar, not Lonzo.
Its best of both worlds. he gets the media attention of a cocky loudmouth and avoids most of the backlash.
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You know there is a problem when the thread is supposed to discuss Lonzo but most of the talk is about Lavar. I hope Danny stays clear of these guys.
The more I look at the differences between LaVar and Lonzo's demeanor in interviews, the more I just see it as a total act. I think his dad is purposely doing this to see if his son acts up in the media and lose his cool over his dad. Lonzo has been handling it LIKE A PRO. Giving the right answers and acting totally humble about it. Maybe its just his dad training him to handle the media LIKE A PRO by talking all this trash and going on to shows like First Take to make all this noise. It's sort of unorthodox, but when you think about it, it kind of makes a lot of sense...
Your over thinking it. His dad is a collosal loud mouth jerk and always has been. Lonzo is the opposite. Simple as that.
The dad is a loudmouth jerk, but nearly all his comments are calculated.
he doesnt believe half the stuff he says and I think he has coached lonzo to say the right thing.
This way he can serve as Lonzo's own hype man building the brand etc etc while Lonzo can stay clear of most of the backlash because it is directed more at Lavar.
i mean after Lonzo lost in a bad performance against Kentucky, people called out lavar, not Lonzo.
Its best of both worlds. he gets the media attention of a cocky loudmouth and avoids most of the backlash.
I like your angle, still might be giving the big moron too much credit. They say ignorance is bliss. If that's true than this guy is living in pure Utopia. TP for the angle though...
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You know there is a problem when the thread is supposed to discuss Lonzo but most of the talk is about Lavar. I hope Danny stays clear of these guys.
The more I look at the differences between LaVar and Lonzo's demeanor in interviews, the more I just see it as a total act. I think his dad is purposely doing this to see if his son acts up in the media and lose his cool over his dad. Lonzo has been handling it LIKE A PRO. Giving the right answers and acting totally humble about it. Maybe its just his dad training him to handle the media LIKE A PRO by talking all this trash and going on to shows like First Take to make all this noise. It's sort of unorthodox, but when you think about it, it kind of makes a lot of sense...
Your over thinking it. His dad is a collosal loud mouth jerk and always has been. Lonzo is the opposite. Simple as that.
The dad is a loudmouth jerk, but nearly all his comments are calculated.
he doesnt believe half the stuff he says and I think he has coached lonzo to say the right thing.
This way he can serve as Lonzo's own hype man building the brand etc etc while Lonzo can stay clear of most of the backlash because it is directed more at Lavar.
i mean after Lonzo lost in a bad performance against Kentucky, people called out lavar, not Lonzo.
Its best of both worlds. he gets the media attention of a cocky loudmouth and avoids most of the backlash.
I do suggest that you take a look at this article that hwangjini posted yesterday. I suppose it could be calculated, but a lot of the stuff in the article is behind the scenes. I choose to believe that Lavar cares for his kids, but in a totally reckless and disastrous way in the realm of basketball.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ftw/2017/03/23/coaching-lavar-balls-sons-inside-high-school-basketballs-most-chaotic-303-season/99543018/
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Like father like son...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19024163/lonzo-ball-says-better-fellow-nba-draft-prospect-markelle-fultz
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Like father like son...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19024163/lonzo-ball-says-better-fellow-nba-draft-prospect-markelle-fultz
Shot fired at Markell's .
Wow....he is going to have enemies and people gunning for him from the get go.
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This way he can serve as Lonzo's own hype man building the brand etc etc while Lonzo can stay clear of most of the backlash because it is directed more at Lavar.
It may be planned and calculated but the only thing he achieved is people think he is a dang fool!
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Like father like son...
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19024163/lonzo-ball-says-better-fellow-nba-draft-prospect-markelle-fultz
Shot fired at Markell's .
Wow....he is going to have enemies and people gunning for him from the get go.
I'd be concerned if he had said Fultz was better than him.
A lot of players think they're the best and say so publicly. This is a non-issue and the confidence is a good thing.
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Lonzo Ball recently remarked “At the end of the day, I’ll play for any team,” Ball told the crew on “First Take.” “The NBA is the NBA, but it would be a blessing to be able to play for the Lakers just because it’s in L.A., I’m from here, my whole family’s here.”
Kid grown and raised in LA, went to school for UCLA, and to be drafted by the Lakers would be somewhat short of an amazing story for the Lakers. Given the skill redundancies of Russell and Fultz (score first guards who aren't as good as facilitating), I'm growing to think that the Lakers may end up preferring Ball over Fultz. So maybe that bodes well for our desire to land Fultz even if we end up with #2, given that we have a 46.5% chance of landing 1 or 2.
Forgive me if this has been asked already but... If the Lakers land #1 in the lottery and the Celtics are #2, what are the chances that the Lakers take Ball and the Celtics still end up with Fultz? What do people think?
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If you read the quote, he says Markelle is a great scorer, but I can lead a team better.
If you watch the two teams play it's pretty apparent that he's right.
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Lonzo Ball recently remarked “At the end of the day, I’ll play for any team,” Ball told the crew on “First Take.” “The NBA is the NBA, but it would be a blessing to be able to play for the Lakers just because it’s in L.A., I’m from here, my whole family’s here.”
Kid grown and raised in LA, went to school for UCLA, and to be drafted by the Lakers would be somewhat short of an amazing story for the Lakers. Given the skill redundancies of Russell and Fultz (score first guards who aren't as good as facilitating), I'm growing to think that the Lakers may end up preferring Ball over Fultz. So maybe that bodes well for our desire to land Fultz even if we end up with #2, given that we have a 46.5% chance of landing 1 or 2.
Forgive me if this has been asked already but... If the Lakers land #1 in the lottery and the Celtics are #2, what are the chances that the Lakers take Ball and the Celtics still end up with Fultz? What do people think?
With Lavar living near by, the Lakers would have to be crazy to choose Lonzo.
His father would drive them crazy in the media, on talk shows, and around the team. They would have to get a restraining order to rid themselves of this loudmouth nut invading practice facilities etc. His son would end up being totally embarrassed, and not be able to concentrate on his new responsibilities.
The best thing for Lonzo is go to a team as far away from his dad as possible. I'm not really sure how I would feel if it were Boston. Lavar is a Laker fan, and Laker fans are not fans of the Boston Celtics.
This guy is trouble.
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Lavar would prefer the Celtics not draft him:
http://nesn.com/2017/03/lavar-ball-would-rather-celtics-not-draft-lonzo-in-this-summers-draft/
So it begins
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Lavar said he wants Lonzo to be picked by the Lakers, not that he specifically doesnt want him to go to Boston.
I really dont have a problem with this.
In the article you link he literally says "It wouldn’t be like I’m like, ‘Aw, man. He’s got to go to Boston.’"
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http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/lavar-ball-father-of-potential-first-nba-draft-pick-lonzo-ball-says-boston-celtics-danny-ainge-tough-for-white-guy?p=ya5nbcs&ocid=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
Ball was also asked about Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge. He said that he doesn’t know Ainge and has never spoken to him, but he did have an interesting description of the scrappy Ainge’s playing days.
“I don’t know anything about Danny Ainge, but I know when he was a player, he was one of them sticklers to get up under you, boy,” Ball said. “But I haven’t talked to him. I don’t know Danny Ainge, I just watched him play when he was younger and I knew for a white guy, you could elbow him in the face. He was going to get back up and keep playing.”
Ball did not say whether he thinks his son would have a better playing career than Ainge, a one-time All-Star and two-time NBA champion, but that should be assumed.
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https://youtu.be/TeqpRWbU9qs
Okay I officially don't want Lonzo now. He didn't put Biggie in his top 5 rappers of all time lol. Certainly east coast bias.
His top 5
1 Wayne
2 Future
3 Dmx
4 50
5 Pac
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/lavar-ball-slow-white-guys-014734717.html
Hot off the SI press, Lavar thinks that the only reason UCLA lost is because UCLA rolled out 3 white guys "whose foot speed is too slow."
Also apparently the only reason Fox dropped 39 on Lonzo is that lonzo's hamstring popped.
Im done with this premadonna family. Let this discriminating Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. have his son go to LA. He and his family are mentally weak if they feel the need to do this kind of yapping. He is the kind of distraction that can derail a rebuild.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/lavar-ball-slow-white-guys-014734717.html
Hot off the SI press, Lavar thinks that the only reason UCLA lost is because UCLA rolled out 3 white guys "whose foot speed is too slow."
Also apparently the only reason Fox dropped 39 on Lonzo is that lonzo's hamstring popped.
Im done with this premadonna family. Let this discriminating **** have his son go to LA. He and his family are mentally weak if they feel the need to do this kind of yapping. He is the kind of distraction that can derail a rebuild.
We can agree that The dad is a poopface talking butthole. Please though we must separate him from his kids.
Lonzo is a quite and peaceful kid by nature, certainly not nurture.
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I hope the Kings draft him. Let his dad deal with them.
He could probably turn it into a reality show and make that billion he was asking for! :laugh:
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Imagine him saying the same thing after a bad C game...
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https://youtu.be/TeqpRWbU9qs
Okay I officially don't want Lonzo now. He didn't put Biggie in his top 5 rappers of all time lol. Certainly east coast bias.
His top 5
1 Wayne
2 Future
3 Dmx
4 50
5 Pac
DMX?? seriously? didn't he just kind of yell and growl?
haha. yes, this makes me seriously question the kids judgement!!
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https://youtu.be/TeqpRWbU9qs
Okay I officially don't want Lonzo now. He didn't put Biggie in his top 5 rappers of all time lol. Certainly east coast bias.
His top 5
1 Wayne
2 Future
3 Dmx
4 50
5 Pac
DMX?? seriously? didn't he just kind of yell and growl?
haha. yes, this makes me seriously question the kids judgement!!
He also slipped, fell, and couldn't get up. Kinda sad.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/lavar-ball-slow-white-guys-014734717.html
Hot off the SI press, Lavar thinks that the only reason UCLA lost is because UCLA rolled out 3 white guys "whose foot speed is too slow."
Also apparently the only reason Fox dropped 39 on Lonzo is that lonzo's hamstring popped.
Im done with this premadonna family. Let this discriminating **** have his son go to LA. He and his family are mentally weak if they feel the need to do this kind of yapping. He is the kind of distraction that can derail a rebuild.
We can agree that The dad is a poopface talking butthole. Please though we must separate him from his kids.
Lonzo is a quite and peaceful kid by nature, certainly not nurture.
Everything I have read indicates that Lonzo listens to what his dad says very intently. I mean the guy ran rampant and undermind his kids coaches for years. And he hasnt even tried to say his dad may be wrong on some of this. So as Lavar gets more and more toxic, Lonzo needs to make a comment. He needs to be a man. I understand its his father, but there comes a limit.
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https://youtu.be/TeqpRWbU9qs
Okay I officially don't want Lonzo now. He didn't put Biggie in his top 5 rappers of all time lol. Certainly east coast bias.
His top 5
1 Wayne
2 Future
3 Dmx
4 50
5 Pac
DMX?? seriously? didn't he just kind of yell and growl?
haha. yes, this makes me seriously question the kids judgement!!
He also slipped, fell, and couldn't get up. Kinda sad.
Hey, Slippin' is an awesome jam! Don't make me stop, drop and open up shop on yo azz ;)
That said, Future over 2pac? And no Biggie? Not even a Nas, Jay-Z or any underground or more lyrical rappers to balance it out. Yeah, a pain in the butt daddy and poor musical tastes and sense of history. Feeling better and better about having Ball rated no higher than #4 for us.
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https://youtu.be/TeqpRWbU9qs
Okay I officially don't want Lonzo now. He didn't put Biggie in his top 5 rappers of all time lol. Certainly east coast bias.
His top 5
1 Wayne
2 Future
3 Dmx
4 50
5 Pac
DMX?? seriously? didn't he just kind of yell and growl?
haha. yes, this makes me seriously question the kids judgement!!
He also slipped, fell, and couldn't get up. Kinda sad.
Hey, Slippin' is an awesome jam! Don't make me stop, drop and open up shop on yo azz ;)
That said, Future over 2pac? And no Biggie? Not even a Nas, Jay-Z or any underground or more lyrical rappers to balance it out. Yeah, a pain in the butt daddy and poor musical tastes and sense of history. Feeling better and better about having Ball rated no higher than #4 for us.
And no Vanilla Ice or Eminem??? Guess he really doesn't like white guys. :)
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https://youtu.be/TeqpRWbU9qs
Okay I officially don't want Lonzo now. He didn't put Biggie in his top 5 rappers of all time lol. Certainly east coast bias.
His top 5
1 Wayne
2 Future
3 Dmx
4 50
5 Pac
How is 50 better than Tupac? Worst top 5 list ever.
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https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/lavar-ball-slow-white-guys-014734717.html
Hot off the SI press, Lavar thinks that the only reason UCLA lost is because UCLA rolled out 3 white guys "whose foot speed is too slow."
Also apparently the only reason Fox dropped 39 on Lonzo is that lonzo's hamstring popped.
Im done with this premadonna family. Let this discriminating **** have his son go to LA. He and his family are mentally weak if they feel the need to do this kind of yapping. He is the kind of distraction that can derail a rebuild.
We can agree that The dad is a poopface talking butthole. Please though we must separate him from his kids.
Lonzo is a quite and peaceful kid by nature, certainly not nurture.
Everything I have read indicates that Lonzo listens to what his dad says very intently. I mean the guy ran rampant and undermind his kids coaches for years. And he hasnt even tried to say his dad may be wrong on some of this. So as Lavar gets more and more toxic, Lonzo needs to make a comment. He needs to be a man. I understand its his father, but there comes a limit.
Lonzo said to his teammates his an idiot, after a teammate mentioned the 1 billion for three sons comment.
You have to admit he couldn't act much more different than his father. He's very well mannered in the public eye.
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Draft express weaknesses: very telling of him as a player
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS9NF0ePsvI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Zog8KFFsTQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBwr2it1IQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQGtEdTk_3I
Strengths:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7653VNKpqUo
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Here's the latest Draft Express article:
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/lonzo-ball-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5886/
A few key quotes:
When Lonzo Ball arrived at UCLA last fall, he was looking to revive a program which had collapsed down the stretch the previous year. UCLA went just 6-12 in Pac-12 play in the season before Ball's arrival, and lost ten of their last 13 games to close out the 2015-16 campaign. Armed by the arrival of Ball and fellow freshmen T.J. Leaf and Ike Anigbogu, UCLA would undergo one of the more dramatic turnarounds in recent memory. Propelled by Lonzo Ball's frenetic style of play and the best offense in the country, UCLA powered their way to a 31-5 record and a three seed in the NCAA tournament. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/lonzo-ball-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5886/ ©DraftExpress
When discussing the Lonzo Ball experience, it would be impossible not to start with his elite transition play. Ball his virtually the entire package in this regard ... his creativity and vision are nothing short of elite. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/lonzo-ball-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5886/ ©DraftExpress, - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/lonzo-ball-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5886/ ©DraftExpress
His biggest limiting factor at this stage is that he just doesn't show much ability to consistently get into the paint off the dribble, even at the college level. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/lonzo-ball-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5886/ ©DraftExpress
On the defensive side of the court, Ball does enough off the ball in terms of forcing turnovers and crashing the defensive glass to not be a total non-contributor, but he does have his weaknesses as well, and probably has neither the versatility or impact that his physical profile and steal/block output suggest. Ball struggles at times denying dribble penetration against quicker guards, and he can get absolutely blown up by screens, lacking both the awareness to recognize the screen and make the correct read while also struggling with the physicality to fight through the screen. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/lonzo-ball-nba-draft-scouting-report-and-video-analysis-5886/ ©DraftExpress
Still #2 on their Mock.
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Way to screw your kid, LaVar.
Nike, Under Armour, Adidas not interested in deal with Lonzo Ball
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024/nike-armour-adidas-not-interested-deal-lonzo-ball
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Way to screw your kid, LaVar.
Nike, Under Armour, Adidas not interested in deal with Lonzo Ball
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024/nike-armour-adidas-not-interested-deal-lonzo-ball
Bahaha! Didn't get your billion dollars you fool! Good, you moron, loudmouth, jerk!
Why do some people want that much money anyway? Lonzo will make well over 100 million playing hoops, and you may have screwed his chance at making another 100 million in endorsements. Nice job dad.
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Lol too funny
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Way to screw your kid, LaVar.
Nike, Under Armour, Adidas not interested in deal with Lonzo Ball
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/19264024/nike-armour-adidas-not-interested-deal-lonzo-ball
Bahaha! Didn't get your billion dollars you fool! Good, you moron, loudmouth, jerk!
Why do some people want that much money anyway? Lonzo will make well over 100 million playing hoops, and you may have screwed his chance at making another 100 million in endorsements. Nice job dad.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706355-nike-more-pass-on-lonzo-ball-after-father-lavar-asks-for-big-baller-licensing
This guy is a nut job, and I don't want him anywhere near the C's. He's already harming his son's career by insisting on his own brand being picked up. Living vicariously, anyone?
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706355-nike-more-pass-on-lonzo-ball-after-father-lavar-asks-for-big-baller-licensing
This guy is a nut job, and I don't want him anywhere near the C's. He's already harming his son's career by insisting on his own brand being picked up. Living vicariously, anyone?
What can Lonzo fo to protect himself Potter. Put yourself in his shoes. Now that he's an adult would you go back to Nike and say listen I'll sign a contract saying that guy gets no say whatsoever.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706355-nike-more-pass-on-lonzo-ball-after-father-lavar-asks-for-big-baller-licensing
This guy is a nut job, and I don't want him anywhere near the C's. He's already harming his son's career by insisting on his own brand being picked up. Living vicariously, anyone?
His dad is a joke. What multi Million/Billion dollar company is going to buy rights to a brand off of a kid who hasn't even been drafted. He's done nothing. And if he's a bust, that company would be a laughing stock.
Apparently Lavar doesn't believe in earning you keep, he just wants it all handed to his kids. There is nothing wrong with signing a short contract, and then in the second bring in the branding.
And Lavar saying how much richer Jordan and Woods would be if they did it his way is a joke. I think Joirdan and Woods do just fine, more money than they can spend.
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Oh, and no #$& way would I want him on the team unless he divorced his dad. And even then, I'd rather have Fultz,Jackson, or Tatum.
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I think a Chinese company might take a swing on the brand. Who knows
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706355-nike-more-pass-on-lonzo-ball-after-father-lavar-asks-for-big-baller-licensing
This guy is a nut job, and I don't want him anywhere near the C's. He's already harming his son's career by insisting on his own brand being picked up. Living vicariously, anyone?
He has already cost his son millions of dollars with his loud mouth. What an egomaniac. Trying to live his dreams through his children and hurting them while doing it.
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Baller brand website is a joke. They're selling cheap looking t shirts with the logo for $60
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706355-nike-more-pass-on-lonzo-ball-after-father-lavar-asks-for-big-baller-licensing
This guy is a nut job, and I don't want him anywhere near the C's. He's already harming his son's career by insisting on his own brand being picked up. Living vicariously, anyone?
He has already cost his son millions of dollars with his loud mouth. What an egomaniac. Trying to live his dreams through his children and hurting them while doing it.
Never in the history of modern-day shoe endorsements have the big companies all stepped away from a potential top pick nearly two months before the NBA draft. But LaVar, who has been representing Lonzo in the deal, has offered something that has no precedent lol
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Oh, and no #$& way would I want him on the team unless he divorced his dad. And even then, I'd rather have Fultz,Jackson, or Tatum.
That's a good point. Notify Ainge. If we him I want a Legal Separation and they need to be approved by the Legal team on CB.
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Just wondering out loud, if the Lakers won the first overall pick, would they pass on Fultz to take Ball? Or the other way around, pass on Ball and take Fultz. (In that case Lavar would go totally ballistic, lol.)
And if they did passed on Ball, would Ball actually slip in the draft because his father would be continually trying to get his son shipped to "his" Lakers through the media.
If I were an NBA GM I certainly would be hesitant to deal with his father with him being a such a big mouth idiot being used by the national sports media.
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I just read where Ball is reported not going to attend the draft combine.
I guess this hurts his chance being taken top 3 .......? If you can't talk to him why take a chance., get a feel for his sincerity .
He seems to be setting himself up to ONLY go to Lakers ( least he hopes ) , with this move .
Would be funny if Lakers skip him to take another player.
To me he has more to loose than any top choice . To prove he is everything his big mouth father says he is and that he wants to play for whomever drafts him.
I'm really skeptical now
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I just read where Ball is reported not going to attend the draft combine.
I guess this hurts his chance being taken top 3 .......? If you can't talk to him why take a chance., get a feel for his sincerity .
He seems to be setting himself up to ONLY go to Lakers ( least he hopes ) , with this move .
Would be funny if Lakers skip him to take another player.
To me he has more to loose than any top choice . To prove he is everything his big mouth father says he is and that he wants to play for whomever drafts him.
I'm really skeptical now
This does not at all hurt his chance of being taken top 3. This is something the majority of top players do.
Ben Simmons, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony Towns, Jahlil Okafor they all skipped the combine too.
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I just read where Ball is reported not going to attend the draft combine.
I guess this hurts his chance being taken top 3 .......? If you can't talk to him why take a chance., get a feel for his sincerity .
He seems to be setting himself up to ONLY go to Lakers ( least he hopes ) , with this move .
Would be funny if Lakers skip him to take another player.
To me he has more to loose than any top choice . To prove he is everything his big mouth father says he is and that he wants to play for whomever drafts him.
I'm really skeptical now
This does not at all hurt his chance of being taken top 3. This is something the majority of top players do.
Ben Simmons, Andrew Wiggins, Jabari Parker, Joel Embiid, Karl Anthony Towns, Jahlil Okafor they all skipped the combine too.
Yeah I know all that . But his situation with publicly stating his feelings about being drafted anywhere but LA . It changes the way people perceive him. If I was GM and he would not work out , I would not,draft,him . He needs to show people what he is about .....meet them face to face .....hiding in LA whined his daddy does not help his case. No way.
If he is so great he should.have no problem showing up,
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707646-lakers-reportedly-enamored-with-lonzo-ball
Apparently the Lakers are "enamored" with Lonzo Ball and would take him number one overall.
Me:
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/377/876/2876377.gif)
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707646-lakers-reportedly-enamored-with-lonzo-ball
Apparently the Lakers are "enamored" with Lonzo Ball and would take him number one overall.
Me:
(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/377/876/2876377.gif)
Chad Ford reported it...not worth a whole lot imo
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707820-lonzo-ball-reveals-495-zo2-signature-shoes-made-by-big-baller-brand
Lol the Ball arrogance saga continues ;D
I seriously want these people nowhere near our organization. They just have LA written all over them, and not in a good way.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707820-lonzo-ball-reveals-495-zo2-signature-shoes-made-by-big-baller-brand
Lol the Ball arrogance saga continues ;D
I seriously want these people nowhere near our organization. They just have LA written all over them, and not in a good way.
$500 for a pair of basketball shoes that look just like CP3's you can get for $100
LOL
I've seen enough from this family, off my Celtics draft board.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707820-lonzo-ball-reveals-495-zo2-signature-shoes-made-by-big-baller-brand
Lol the Ball arrogance saga continues ;D
I seriously want these people nowhere near our organization. They just have LA written all over them, and not in a good way.
$500 for a pair of basketball shoes that look just like CP3's you can get for $100
LOL
I've seen enough from this family, off my Celtics draft board.
Slippers are $220! :D :D :D It's more than Prada slippers! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707820-lonzo-ball-reveals-495-zo2-signature-shoes-made-by-big-baller-brand
Lol the Ball arrogance saga continues ;D
I seriously want these people nowhere near our organization. They just have LA written all over them, and not in a good way.
$500 for a pair of basketball shoes that look just like CP3's you can get for $100
LOL
I've seen enough from this family, off my Celtics draft board.
Slippers are $220! :D :D :D It's more than Prada slippers! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I've been telling myself not to go too hard on the kid since his dad is the one calling all the shots. However.. at this point i'm kinda hoping he goes to the Lakers and busts.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2707820-lonzo-ball-reveals-495-zo2-signature-shoes-made-by-big-baller-brand
Lol the Ball arrogance saga continues ;D
I seriously want these people nowhere near our organization. They just have LA written all over them, and not in a good way.
$500 for a pair of basketball shoes that look just like CP3's you can get for $100
LOL
I've seen enough from this family, off my Celtics draft board.
Slippers are $220! :D :D :D It's more than Prada slippers! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
There are even a pair of shoes over $900... It's like who in the hell do these people think they are?
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This Ball father is such a clown that it's actually ridiculous. It's like a character from a movie or something, a parody of the overbearing sports dad.
I feel bad for the kids but I think at this point you should reasonably be distancing yourself some from this kind of thing if you had some sense and were the age Lonzo Ball is. They turned down actual shoe deals for this. It's a poor man's Kobe looking shoe that for zero reason costs 5 times as much.
I liked Shaq's tweet:
https://twitter.com/SHAQ/status/860234184144461824
Big Baller Brand. Truly a prestige brand worthy of sandals that cost more then Gucci or Prada ones.
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MJ can't sell a $495 shoe cuz "MJs not Lonzo" according to Lavar
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19345569/lavar-ball-says-selling-495-shoes-son-lonzo-ball-doing-things-michael-jordan-never-did
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MJ can't sell a $495 shoe cuz "MJs not Lonzo" according to Lavar
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19345569/lavar-ball-says-selling-495-shoes-son-lonzo-ball-doing-things-michael-jordan-never-did
It's funny, because Lonzo hasn't even played an NBA game yet.
Also, notice how it's all LaVar Ball but NOTHING Lonzo. Like have you even heard Lonzo's voice lately anywhere in the main news/media?
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MJ can't sell a $495 shoe cuz "MJs not Lonzo" according to Lavar
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19345569/lavar-ball-says-selling-495-shoes-son-lonzo-ball-doing-things-michael-jordan-never-did
It's funny, because Lonzo hasn't even played an NBA game yet.
Also, notice how it's all LaVar Ball but NOTHING Lonzo. Like have you even heard Lonzo's voice lately anywhere in the main news/media?
Lol exactly
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I don't care either way if Lonzo succeeds; he is young and is easily impressionable. However, I hate everything that Lavar is as a person and hope he royally fails...or even goes to jail for something petty. The guy is living vicariously through his kids and is demanding more attention despite the fact that he has no discernible talent.
Big Baller Brand is a total joke. Yeah, dude, you are going to be the next big thing. I am glad your kids have given you a platform to be legendary ::)
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Despite all the daddy issues...I think Lonzo has a chance to be special.
http://www.celticshub.com/2017/04/04/celticshub-2017-nba-draft-big-small-board-no-2-lonzo-ball/
https://youtu.be/0F7zZL6QmQA
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Won't be needing this thread anymore ;D
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Lavar says lonzo will only work out for Lakers
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Despite all the daddy issues...I think Lonzo has a chance to be special.
http://www.celticshub.com/2017/04/04/celticshub-2017-nba-draft-big-small-board-no-2-lonzo-ball/
https://youtu.be/0F7zZL6QmQA
Lonzo absolutely has a chance to be special. Fultz separates himself by having a greater chance at being special and a lesser chance of being bad IMO. Lonzo is still a great prospect.
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;D
Lavar now says the price tag is now $3 billion if Nike and underarmour want to talk a shoe deal. Can he go an hour without talking
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;D
Lavar now says the price tag is now $3 billion if Nike and underarmour want to talk a shoe deal. Can he go an hour without talking
thank god that big mouth and his family is staying in LA.
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If Lakers don't pick Ball.... puhahahhaha .... Love to see Lavars face
I think if Lakers skip on I'm too good to workout for anybody else Lonzo Ball...He will drop to Sacramento..... Lonzo will still be playing for a westcoast team
Lavar ecstatic Lakers picking #2... what a guy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyVo6-TbsSo
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I'm still holding out hope all 30 teams refuse to allow this kid to be a part of their league and force him to go play in China.
Screw him and his piece of crap father.
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I'm still holding out hope all 30 teams refuse to allow this kid to be a part of their league and force him to go play in China.
Screw him and his piece of crap father.
What?!?
What did Lonzo Ball ever do other than refuse to sign a shoe contract with a brand not owned by his family?
What is wrong with everybody?
Lavar Ball is just a savvy promoter. If news on what he does is getting a rise out of you than honestly, that's exactly what he's hoping for. Every time he's in the news it builds the Ball Family Brand and raises their earning power. If you don't like this strategy that's fine, but there's good evidence that in today's media market making outlandish, unrealistic claims is good business (see Donald Trump) as long as it keeps you relevant and they don't turn the microphones off.
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-ball-family-coming-to-a-basketball-court-and-tv-near-you/ (http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/the-ball-family-coming-to-a-basketball-court-and-tv-near-you/)
Lavar's done a good job keeping his family together and protecting his sons from the exploitative and unhealthy world of AAU basketball and college recruiting and yet everyone is mad at him because he's trying to make basketball work for his family rather than just falling in line. I find it strange that so many people would take this so personally.
Many of you would probably feel better if you went outside and took a walk.
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Don't post here that often, but I guess I'll give my 2c on the Lonzo thing. I could give two ****s about his dad, I only care about the basketball player, but I honestly don't think he's the best player at 2, which is Jackson. There is this tidal wave of Lonzo hype going on partly from his dad and partly from the media that the Lakers must take him, and fans will put that pressure on the FO to take him. I hope Magic/Pelinka are smart enough to pick the best player there, which wouldn't be Ball.
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Don't post here that often, but I guess I'll give my 2c on the Lonzo thing. I could give two ****s about his dad, I only care about the basketball player, but I honestly don't think he's the best player at 2, which is Jackson. There is this tidal wave of Lonzo hype going on partly from his dad and partly from the media that the Lakers must take him, and fans will put that pressure on the FO to take him. I hope Magic/Pelinka are smart enough to pick the best player there, which wouldn't be Ball.
One thing I know from the recent Lakers front office , it's that they will take the player they believe themselves is the best, regardless of position or what the media or so-called draft experts think. They passed on Okafor to take Russell even though they had Clarkson and needed a center, and Okafor was the consensus #2.
If they believe Jackson or Tatum is better than Ball, they will easily pass on Ball.
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Don't post here that often, but I guess I'll give my 2c on the Lonzo thing. I could give two ****s about his dad, I only care about the basketball player, but I honestly don't think he's the best player at 2, which is Jackson. There is this tidal wave of Lonzo hype going on partly from his dad and partly from the media that the Lakers must take him, and fans will put that pressure on the FO to take him. I hope Magic/Pelinka are smart enough to pick the best player there, which wouldn't be Ball.
I kind of soured on Ball after that last game. He didn't really show up for that one and was just waiting to announce his early draft entrance. I think that UCLA team would be very hard to replicate in the NBA. Ball had like 5 guys that shot over 40% from three surrounding him. Ball was not always the primary ball handler on that team and they had a lot of talent. I'm not buying that Ball turned that team around all by himself narrative that's been spun out there. That UCLA team had a ton of talent. I'm not so sure that Ball can translate to the NBA. Ball hardly ever shot any contested shots and his shot is going to be really easy to bother on the next level. The big question for me is he closer to Adam Morrison than Steph Curry?
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;D
Lavar now says the price tag is now $3 billion if Nike and underarmour want to talk a shoe deal. Can he go an hour without talking
thank god that big mouth and his family is staying in LA.
Agreed.
What company in their right mind would give a huge contract like that to an unproven. I'm really hoping LA and Boston meets early and CBS puts Smart on Ball....
I'd almost feel sorry for the kid. :)
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Don't post here that often, but I guess I'll give my 2c on the Lonzo thing. I could give two ****s about his dad, I only care about the basketball player, but I honestly don't think he's the best player at 2, which is Jackson. There is this tidal wave of Lonzo hype going on partly from his dad and partly from the media that the Lakers must take him, and fans will put that pressure on the FO to take him. I hope Magic/Pelinka are smart enough to pick the best player there, which wouldn't be Ball.
One thing I know from the recent Lakers front office , it's that they will take the player they believe themselves is the best, regardless of position or what the media or so-called draft experts think. They passed on Okafor to take Russell even though they had Clarkson and needed a center, and Okafor was the consensus #2.
If they believe Jackson or Tatum is better than Ball, they will easily pass on Ball.
It is a different front office. Jim and Mitch are gone which is probably good overall. If the prospects are relatively close, I think Ball would be their selection. Jackson, Tatum or whoever else would need to be clearly better than Ball.
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Don't post here that often, but I guess I'll give my 2c on the Lonzo thing. I could give two ****s about his dad, I only care about the basketball player, but I honestly don't think he's the best player at 2, which is Jackson. There is this tidal wave of Lonzo hype going on partly from his dad and partly from the media that the Lakers must take him, and fans will put that pressure on the FO to take him. I hope Magic/Pelinka are smart enough to pick the best player there, which wouldn't be Ball.
I don't understand how Jackson could possibly be considered in the top 3 of this draft... He's an athletic small forward who can't shoot... Aside from the fact that those players are available every single year he has MAJOR red flags.
http://deadspin.com/report-josh-jackson-issued-one-game-suspension-for-tra-1793091040 (http://deadspin.com/report-josh-jackson-issued-one-game-suspension-for-tra-1793091040)
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Maybe we should have a separate Lavar Ball hate thread, and save this one for discussion of a talented young basketball player?
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Per Ainge, Ball won't workout for the Celtics. It will be funny as hell if the Lakers pass on him and he falls several more spots. Of course if the Lakers draft him and he busts that would be even better.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/lonzo-ball-nba-draft-boston-celtics-los-angeles-lakers-lavar-ball/1aj99ezyo8mh21fqjqczadat0b
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Don't post here that often, but I guess I'll give my 2c on the Lonzo thing. I could give two ****s about his dad, I only care about the basketball player, but I honestly don't think he's the best player at 2, which is Jackson. There is this tidal wave of Lonzo hype going on partly from his dad and partly from the media that the Lakers must take him, and fans will put that pressure on the FO to take him. I hope Magic/Pelinka are smart enough to pick the best player there, which wouldn't be Ball.
I don't understand how Jackson could possibly be considered in the top 3 of this draft... He's an athletic small forward who can't shoot... Aside from the fact that those players are available every single year he has MAJOR red flags.
http://deadspin.com/report-josh-jackson-issued-one-game-suspension-for-tra-1793091040 (http://deadspin.com/report-josh-jackson-issued-one-game-suspension-for-tra-1793091040)
Having seen him play a lot I certainly can see his high value.
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Ball wont workout for the Celts
In line with what Lavar has said... But if Celts choose Ball at 1.. Lavar wont interfere... Listen below
https://youtu.be/SqoZlsZYrd8
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Ball wont workout for the Celts
In line with what Lavar has said... But if Celts choose Ball at 1.. Lavar wont interfere... Listen below
https://youtu.be/SqoZlsZYrd8
Good for us to get the 1st pick so we can just enjoy this comedy
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Don't post here that often, but I guess I'll give my 2c on the Lonzo thing. I could give two ****s about his dad, I only care about the basketball player, but I honestly don't think he's the best player at 2, which is Jackson. There is this tidal wave of Lonzo hype going on partly from his dad and partly from the media that the Lakers must take him, and fans will put that pressure on the FO to take him. I hope Magic/Pelinka are smart enough to pick the best player there, which wouldn't be Ball.
I don't understand how Jackson could possibly be considered in the top 3 of this draft... He's an athletic small forward who can't shoot... Aside from the fact that those players are available every single year he has MAJOR red flags.
http://deadspin.com/report-josh-jackson-issued-one-game-suspension-for-tra-1793091040 (http://deadspin.com/report-josh-jackson-issued-one-game-suspension-for-tra-1793091040)
"Josh Jackson can't shoot" is frankly not true for anywhere besides the FT line, which is still a major bummer.
His personality problems raise more issues with me.
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Ball wont workout for the Celts
In line with what Lavar has said... But if Celts choose Ball at 1.. Lavar wont interfere... Listen below
https://youtu.be/SqoZlsZYrd8
Good for us to get the 1st pick so we can just enjoy this comedy
Comedy continues
Lonzo Ball may work out for the 76ers, but won't meet with the Celtics
https://www.google.ca/amp/hoopshype.com/2017/05/25/lonzo-ball-may-work-out-for-the-76ers-but-wont-meet-with-the-celtics/amp/
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Lavar has said Ball is a pg/floor general.
With IT4/cbs system ... Balls capabilities would be limited. Creativity hindered
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Lavar coaches an AAU team called Big Ballers. Lost to a Compton team 109-57 and he was apparently "silenced" lol https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/basketball/2017/05/27/lavar-ball-aau-big-ballers-lose-compton-magic/102253622/
So we find out he can't coach
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Lavar coaches an AAU team called Big Ballers. Lost to a Compton team 109-57 and he was apparently "silenced" lol https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/basketball/2017/05/27/lavar-ball-aau-big-ballers-lose-compton-magic/102253622/
So we find out he can't coach
He says basketball isn't a passion of his, so what's he doing coaching basketball? I see he's wearing that dumb "stay in yo lane" t shirt too.
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^****. That shirt is funny considering the score :D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQVs5LWOskY
Sports Science
The Science Of Lonzo Ball’s Shot | Why It Works
Almost as quick of a release as Klay Thompson...wow!
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just some more info on ball. enjoy.
http://fansided.com/2017/05/12/lonzo-ball-handle-shake-nba-draft-scouting-report/
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Lavar thinks Lonzo is the next Magic
Many have compared him to Kidd already
How about a taller Rondo with a shot?
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Lavar thinks Lonzo is the next Magic
Many have compared him to Kidd already
How about a taller Rondo with a shot?
Ball isnt shifty or quick, doesnt have a great handle, cant defend, and moves the Ball much better than Rondo who had a tendency to see the ball stick in his hands.
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Lavar thinks Lonzo is the next Magic
Many have compared him to Kidd already
How about a taller Rondo with a shot?
Neat article below claims he has several weaknesses to include:
He doesn't (can't?) shoot 2-point jump shots
This is huge. Guess how many 2-point jump shots Lonzo Ball has made this season. That means a shot that isn't a 3-pointer, layup or dunk. Go ahead, think about it ... we have time. Alright, that's enough, you'll never get it.
Two.
According to Hoop-Math.com, Ball has made just two shots in 22 games so far this season that weren't 3s or dunks. And he has only attempted 11 of them. Eleven! While you pick your jaw up off the floor, let's examine what that means. Some might tout the stat as a sign that Ball is ready for the modern NBA, a paragon of the Daryl Morey/Stephen Curry nature of a league where 3s reign supreme and we scoff at low-percentage 2-point jump shots.
He's afraid of contact
Ball has a slight frame and will put on weight, but his ability to finish through contact needs to vastly improve. Ball lacks elite NBA athleticism, but is very tricky around the basket -- he's able to use both hands to elude defenders and finish layups. Those plays are generally in transition when he can get separation from the defender.
When Ball runs into a physical defender, he doesn't finish the same way. He's shooting 76 percent on shots at the rim, which is good, but that's because he usually doesn't even try to finish when there are defenders in his way, electing to pass the ball out to the perimeter. That's fine for now, but shying away from contact isn't something that's going to fly at the NBA level.
Defense
This last one is harder to quantify, but let's just call it what it is: Ball is a terrible one-on-one defender. UCLA has done a great job hiding him with zones and by switching nearly everything when in man-to-man, but when Ball gets isolated against a scoring guard, it's not pretty.
In the Bruins' game against Arizona, for example, when Ball found himself occasionally matched up against stronger guards like Kadeem Allen and Rawle Alkins, or quicker guards like Kobi Simmons, he was quickly exposed. In this clip, Simmons blows by a flat-footed Ball, leaving him with no choice but to take a desperation swipe at the ball, which drew a foul
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/why-lonzo-ball-isnt-the-surefire-nba-superstar-people-seem-to-think-he-is/
Ball has needed another to set him up for a lot of his shots at the rim. I think he is over rated as a slasher.
51.5 percent of Ball’s makes at the rim were assisted at UCLA, per Hoop-Math.com. Digging even deeper with Synergy Stats, 11.9 percent of his non-miscellaneous play type half-court finishing possessions were on off-ball cuts, a high mark for a lead guard. For comparison’s sake, Fultz finished 4.9 percent of his possessions on cuts with the same modifier.
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/
This is a neat read how he only shot well with one type of ball in college. Sadly it was Wilson balls which they do not use in the NBA.
Let’s reiterate that we’re working with a small, possibly insignificant sample size — for all college players, not just Ball. It’s possible that Ball shoots better with the Wilson ball because he plays more games with it, practices more with it, and therefore is more adjusted to it. (Wilson is also the ball of choice in Ball family photo shoots with Slam, Los Angeles Magazine, and ESPN.) But it’s also possible that his percentages with the Nike ball are more true to his actual shooting ability. Ball shot 30.3 percent on 89 3-point attempts using an Adidas ball at Adidas Nations, per Draft Express. He shot 36 percent on 224 triples as a senior at Chino Hills, per MaxPreps. Despite his reputation, Ball’s production at UCLA is actually the outlier of the samples we have access to.
Considering Ball’s odd mechanics that have made him a one-trick pony off the dribble and his hitch at the bottom of his release, it’s plausible that the grippy feel of a Wilson ball helps him over any other ball. He might not be the only one. UCLA switched from Adidas to Wilson in 2014, when Raptors guard Norman Powell was starting his senior year at the school. Powell shot 42.6 percent from 3 at home with the Wilson ball, versus 20.7 percent at away or neutral sites. Powell felt the difference. “The Adidas basketball was a lot more harder, firmer. The Wilson [was] a lot more smoother, had deeper ridges where you can line up the groove to get your shot,” Powell told The Ringer. “You get a little bit more control. You can feel the ball a little bit more.”
https://theringer.com/lonzo-ball-ucla-shooting-mechanics-6eeda2ef3e41
Fox ate him alive when it mattered.
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Lavar thinks Lonzo is the next Magic
Many have compared him to Kidd already
How about a taller Rondo with a shot?
Neat article below claims he has several weaknesses to include:
He doesn't (can't?) shoot 2-point jump shots
This is huge. Guess how many 2-point jump shots Lonzo Ball has made this season. That means a shot that isn't a 3-pointer, layup or dunk. Go ahead, think about it ... we have time. Alright, that's enough, you'll never get it.
Two.
According to Hoop-Math.com, Ball has made just two shots in 22 games so far this season that weren't 3s or dunks. And he has only attempted 11 of them. Eleven! While you pick your jaw up off the floor, let's examine what that means. Some might tout the stat as a sign that Ball is ready for the modern NBA, a paragon of the Daryl Morey/Stephen Curry nature of a league where 3s reign supreme and we scoff at low-percentage 2-point jump shots.
He's afraid of contact
Ball has a slight frame and will put on weight, but his ability to finish through contact needs to vastly improve. Ball lacks elite NBA athleticism, but is very tricky around the basket -- he's able to use both hands to elude defenders and finish layups. Those plays are generally in transition when he can get separation from the defender.
When Ball runs into a physical defender, he doesn't finish the same way. He's shooting 76 percent on shots at the rim, which is good, but that's because he usually doesn't even try to finish when there are defenders in his way, electing to pass the ball out to the perimeter. That's fine for now, but shying away from contact isn't something that's going to fly at the NBA level.
Defense
This last one is harder to quantify, but let's just call it what it is: Ball is a terrible one-on-one defender. UCLA has done a great job hiding him with zones and by switching nearly everything when in man-to-man, but when Ball gets isolated against a scoring guard, it's not pretty.
In the Bruins' game against Arizona, for example, when Ball found himself occasionally matched up against stronger guards like Kadeem Allen and Rawle Alkins, or quicker guards like Kobi Simmons, he was quickly exposed. In this clip, Simmons blows by a flat-footed Ball, leaving him with no choice but to take a desperation swipe at the ball, which drew a foul
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/why-lonzo-ball-isnt-the-surefire-nba-superstar-people-seem-to-think-he-is/
Ball has needed another to set him up for a lot of his shots at the rim. I think he is over rated as a slasher.
51.5 percent of Ball’s makes at the rim were assisted at UCLA, per Hoop-Math.com. Digging even deeper with Synergy Stats, 11.9 percent of his non-miscellaneous play type half-court finishing possessions were on off-ball cuts, a high mark for a lead guard. For comparison’s sake, Fultz finished 4.9 percent of his possessions on cuts with the same modifier.
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/
This is a neat read how he only shot well with one type of ball in college. Sadly it was Wilson balls which they do not use in the NBA.
Let’s reiterate that we’re working with a small, possibly insignificant sample size — for all college players, not just Ball. It’s possible that Ball shoots better with the Wilson ball because he plays more games with it, practices more with it, and therefore is more adjusted to it. (Wilson is also the ball of choice in Ball family photo shoots with Slam, Los Angeles Magazine, and ESPN.) But it’s also possible that his percentages with the Nike ball are more true to his actual shooting ability. Ball shot 30.3 percent on 89 3-point attempts using an Adidas ball at Adidas Nations, per Draft Express. He shot 36 percent on 224 triples as a senior at Chino Hills, per MaxPreps. Despite his reputation, Ball’s production at UCLA is actually the outlier of the samples we have access to.
Considering Ball’s odd mechanics that have made him a one-trick pony off the dribble and his hitch at the bottom of his release, it’s plausible that the grippy feel of a Wilson ball helps him over any other ball. He might not be the only one. UCLA switched from Adidas to Wilson in 2014, when Raptors guard Norman Powell was starting his senior year at the school. Powell shot 42.6 percent from 3 at home with the Wilson ball, versus 20.7 percent at away or neutral sites. Powell felt the difference. “The Adidas basketball was a lot more harder, firmer. The Wilson [was] a lot more smoother, had deeper ridges where you can line up the groove to get your shot,” Powell told The Ringer. “You get a little bit more control. You can feel the ball a little bit more.”
https://theringer.com/lonzo-ball-ucla-shooting-mechanics-6eeda2ef3e41
Fox ate him alive when it mattered.
And Fultz didn't (of course it didn't matter because his team sucked). Does that mean Fox is better than Fultz?
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Do you guys think Jackson would be the best pick for the Lakers at #2?
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Do you guys think Jackson would be the best pick for the Lakers at #2?
How does he fit next to Ingram?
Aside from that, Jackson could be the best player in the draft. It's not common that the #1 ends up the best. Jackson and Monk have as good a chance as being the stars of this draft as Fultz does.
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Do you guys think Jackson would be the best pick for the Lakers at #2?
How does he fit next to Ingram?
Aside from that, Jackson could be the best player in the draft. It's not common that the #1 ends up the best. Jackson and Monk have as good a chance as being the stars of this draft as Fultz does.
Ingram started to shoot better post ASB (three's included). If he continues improving his shot, then Jackson would fit great next to him. Defensively, the pairing would have amazing potential. If Ingram's shot goes back to sucking, though, then it would be tough because the spacing would suffer with JJ and BI on the same floor.
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I think Lonzo will be a good fit for the Lakers, and Ingram will take a big step forward in year 2 with a legit facilitator on the team. I don't think a core of Russell/Lonzo/Ingram/Randle or Nance are exactly destined to be world beaters, but it is certainly something to build around and they should be a playoff team in a say 5 years barring any sudden trades.
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I think Lonzo will be a good fit for the Lakers, and Ingram will take a big step forward in year 2 with a legit facilitator on the team. I don't think a core of Russell/Lonzo/Ingram/Randle or Nance are exactly destined to be world beaters, but it is certainly something to build around and they should be a playoff team in a say 5 years barring any sudden trades.
The Lakers are miles away from contending, but I think they could be in good shape in two years to make the playoffs.
Ball
Russell
Ingram
George
2018 lottery pick (Ayton, Bamba, etc)
Bench: Randle, Clarkson, Nance, Zubac
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I think Lonzo will be a good fit for the Lakers, and Ingram will take a big step forward in year 2 with a legit facilitator on the team. I don't think a core of Russell/Lonzo/Ingram/Randle or Nance are exactly destined to be world beaters, but it is certainly something to build around and they should be a playoff team in a say 5 years barring any sudden trades.
The Lakers are miles away from contending, but I think they could be in good shape in two years to make the playoffs.
Ball
Russell
Ingram
George
2018 lottery pick (Ayton, Bamba, etc)
Bench: Randle, Clarkson, Nance, Zubac
Lakers lose their 2018 pick btw.
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Lakers were ranked 26th in Assists per game and had near last ranking in asist/turnover ratio..ball helps them in this category
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Lavar thinks Lonzo is the next Magic
Many have compared him to Kidd already
How about a taller Rondo with a shot?
Neat article below claims he has several weaknesses to include:
He doesn't (can't?) shoot 2-point jump shots
This is huge. Guess how many 2-point jump shots Lonzo Ball has made this season. That means a shot that isn't a 3-pointer, layup or dunk. Go ahead, think about it ... we have time. Alright, that's enough, you'll never get it.
Two.
According to Hoop-Math.com, Ball has made just two shots in 22 games so far this season that weren't 3s or dunks. And he has only attempted 11 of them. Eleven! While you pick your jaw up off the floor, let's examine what that means. Some might tout the stat as a sign that Ball is ready for the modern NBA, a paragon of the Daryl Morey/Stephen Curry nature of a league where 3s reign supreme and we scoff at low-percentage 2-point jump shots.
He's afraid of contact
Ball has a slight frame and will put on weight, but his ability to finish through contact needs to vastly improve. Ball lacks elite NBA athleticism, but is very tricky around the basket -- he's able to use both hands to elude defenders and finish layups. Those plays are generally in transition when he can get separation from the defender.
When Ball runs into a physical defender, he doesn't finish the same way. He's shooting 76 percent on shots at the rim, which is good, but that's because he usually doesn't even try to finish when there are defenders in his way, electing to pass the ball out to the perimeter. That's fine for now, but shying away from contact isn't something that's going to fly at the NBA level.
Defense
This last one is harder to quantify, but let's just call it what it is: Ball is a terrible one-on-one defender. UCLA has done a great job hiding him with zones and by switching nearly everything when in man-to-man, but when Ball gets isolated against a scoring guard, it's not pretty.
In the Bruins' game against Arizona, for example, when Ball found himself occasionally matched up against stronger guards like Kadeem Allen and Rawle Alkins, or quicker guards like Kobi Simmons, he was quickly exposed. In this clip, Simmons blows by a flat-footed Ball, leaving him with no choice but to take a desperation swipe at the ball, which drew a foul
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/why-lonzo-ball-isnt-the-surefire-nba-superstar-people-seem-to-think-he-is/
Ball has needed another to set him up for a lot of his shots at the rim. I think he is over rated as a slasher.
51.5 percent of Ball’s makes at the rim were assisted at UCLA, per Hoop-Math.com. Digging even deeper with Synergy Stats, 11.9 percent of his non-miscellaneous play type half-court finishing possessions were on off-ball cuts, a high mark for a lead guard. For comparison’s sake, Fultz finished 4.9 percent of his possessions on cuts with the same modifier.
https://fansided.com/2017/05/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-finishing/
This is a neat read how he only shot well with one type of ball in college. Sadly it was Wilson balls which they do not use in the NBA.
Let’s reiterate that we’re working with a small, possibly insignificant sample size — for all college players, not just Ball. It’s possible that Ball shoots better with the Wilson ball because he plays more games with it, practices more with it, and therefore is more adjusted to it. (Wilson is also the ball of choice in Ball family photo shoots with Slam, Los Angeles Magazine, and ESPN.) But it’s also possible that his percentages with the Nike ball are more true to his actual shooting ability. Ball shot 30.3 percent on 89 3-point attempts using an Adidas ball at Adidas Nations, per Draft Express. He shot 36 percent on 224 triples as a senior at Chino Hills, per MaxPreps. Despite his reputation, Ball’s production at UCLA is actually the outlier of the samples we have access to.
Considering Ball’s odd mechanics that have made him a one-trick pony off the dribble and his hitch at the bottom of his release, it’s plausible that the grippy feel of a Wilson ball helps him over any other ball. He might not be the only one. UCLA switched from Adidas to Wilson in 2014, when Raptors guard Norman Powell was starting his senior year at the school. Powell shot 42.6 percent from 3 at home with the Wilson ball, versus 20.7 percent at away or neutral sites. Powell felt the difference. “The Adidas basketball was a lot more harder, firmer. The Wilson [was] a lot more smoother, had deeper ridges where you can line up the groove to get your shot,” Powell told The Ringer. “You get a little bit more control. You can feel the ball a little bit more.”
https://theringer.com/lonzo-ball-ucla-shooting-mechanics-6eeda2ef3e41
Fox ate him alive when it mattered.
And Fultz didn't (of course it didn't matter because his team sucked). Does that mean Fox is better than Fultz?
NBA game Spalding balls are as good as, if not better than Wilson balls. He'll only have problems shooting f team USA lol
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I like Fultz. A lot. I think he is the guy that we should draft. His skill set is pre-eminent.
But I must say this: There is something about Lonzo Ball, his confidence, his personae, that really intrigues me. He comes across as a very confident leader. There are not a lot of guys like that.
I encourage you to watch his interview after his workout with the Lakers:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19571745/lonzo-ball-works-los-angeles-lakers-team-wants-play-for
Put aside the redundancy of the answers: that is the fault of the fawning LA reporters. (I was waiting for at least one of them to ask what he would do if the Celtics drafted him. Of course no one did.) This kid comes across as a confident leader, a winner, a guy who is going to lead his team. We can argue back and forth about how he can't go to his right to shoot, how he has weird shooting mechanics, how he can't drive by guys, etc., etc. The same criticisms could have been lodged against Magic and Kidd when they came into the league.
I still want Fultz. And over the long term, am confident he will be a very good player.
But don't sell Ball short. And don't be surprised if he becomes the rookie of the year, and is the most talked about new player in the NBA.
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Do you guys think Jackson would be the best pick for the Lakers at #2?
How does he fit next to Ingram?
Aside from that, Jackson could be the best player in the draft. It's not common that the #1 ends up the best. Jackson and Monk have as good a chance as being the stars of this draft as Fultz does.
Don't be so certain about that. Where there's been a clear #1 in a decently strong draft, that player has often turned out to be the best player and even if not they've turned out to be very good if their careers weren't derailed by injury.
Here are the years from 2000-2015 where the #1 pick is arguably the best player in the draft:
2000 - Kenyon Martin was clearly the best player before two microfracture surgeries brought him down.
2002 - Yao vs Amare. Take your pick. I'm taking Yao.
2003 - Lebron. 'Nuff said.
2004 - Dwight Howard. 'Nuff said.
2008 - Derrick Rose was pretty special until injuries though I don't think he would have reached the heights of Westbrook.
2009 - Griffin, Curry, Harden. I'll give the edge to the other two.
2010 - John Wall or PG13
2012 - Anthony Davis
2014 - Wiggins still looks to be the head of this class.
2015 - KAT
That looks to me like a solid 6 out of 16 years ('00, '02, '03, '04, 12, 14, 15) where the #1 pick is far and away the best guy in the draft without much dispute. Three others it's arguable ('08, '09, 10) that they're in the running. So having the #1 pick as the best player in the draft seems to be common enough.
The other years were:
'01 - Kwame Brown (Michael Jordan's pick)
'05 - Bogut
'06 - Bargnani
'07 - Oden
11 - Irving
13 - Bennett
What's interesting about that pattern is that only Oden and Irving were the true clear picks going into the draft (and you could argue about Oden vs Durant since some GMs preferred KD). Irving has been good (Leonard is clearly better and so is Butler) and Oden...well, we know what happened to him.
Now when there wasn't a clear #1 going in things are very, very different. The other years there really wasn't a clear #1. Bogut wasn't (Chris Paul was my guy that year) and the other years ('01, '06, 13) were known as exceptionally weak drafts before the first pick was ever made. That's not with 20/20 hindsight either. Those were just bad drafts and with no clear-cut #1 the draft became much more of a crapshoot.
So recent history shows that the #1 pick is often the best player, especially in those years where there is a clear #1 coming into the draft (much like this year). In the years where there was a clear favorite coming in and they didn't end up as the best either they were still very good (Griffin, Wall) or their careers were derailed by injuries (Oden, Rose). In the years where there was no clear #1 then things fall off the rails.
In short, I like our chances this year of Fultz being THE stud of the draft.
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Talk of Lakers saying that they are "split" on Lonzo Ball is BS according to Colin Cowherd.
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/colin-cowherd-explains-why-the-lakers-would-never-pass-on-lonzo-ball-060617
He makes a compelling argument: The Lakers need Ball to be relevant again fast, because they have a huge TV deal with Time Warner that puts pressure on them to have good ratings. HE also says they are putting up this smokescreen so that the Celtics don't kick the tires more with Ball, or threaten to take him, as leverage.
This makes sense. Danny also seems to be playing possum a bit about Fultz, before and after the workout, suggesting that there are several guys they are interested in taking with the #1 pick. He has also on several occasions spoken very respectfully of Ball's decision not to work out with them, and that they have enough information to properly evaluate him.
I have a feeling we will see more cat and mouse here up to draft night. Just think that both teams are too transparent of what they really want and it won't end up any differently (Fultz to Boston and Ball to Lakers).
I also feel that we are so focused on Fultz here, that we are really missing out on looking closer at the Ball option. The fact is, we have the No. 1 pick and can take either guy (or anyone else for that matter).
I think the Celtics staff is spending a lot more time thinking the Ball option through than we are on this blog, that's for sure.
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Lavar ball was on the Celtics talk podcast
http://nesn.com/2017/06/heres-why-lavar-ball-believes-celtics-arent-good-fit-for-lonzo-ball/
Lavar thinks lonzo wouldn't be a good fit with celtics cuz he wouldn't get the chance to "lead the team", would be pushed to 2 guard when lonzo is more of a 1....
He said lakers will be lonzos team lol
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Lavar ball was on the Celtics talk podcast
http://nesn.com/2017/06/heres-why-lavar-ball-believes-celtics-arent-good-fit-for-lonzo-ball/
Lavar thinks lonzo wouldn't be a good fit with celtics cuz he wouldn't get the chance to "lead the team", would be pushed to 2 guard when lonzo is more of a 1....
He said lakers will be lonzos team lol
Lavar needs to stop speaking... what a selfish father the guy is
He only cares about his three sons playing for the Lakers.... like what are the chances this is going to happen?
Lonzo and IT4 could play together....we already have seen that IT4 does not need to bring up the ball all the time. He is quite clever running around screens etc.
Also Ball doesn't pound the ball usually and makes quick passes.
Scenerios
-Ball brings up the ball, Horford sets a pick. Then IT4, AB can run around screen, while Crowder sits on the three point line. Ball will have lots of options
- IT4 brings up the ball , Horford sets a pick. Brown and Crowder this time run around screens, while Ball sits on the three point line. IT4 could shoot or drive in and kick it out. By the time Ball receives the pass , he can shoot the three.... or before the defense sets, make a clever pass to the open man
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I am looking forward to watching smart and Bradley play tough defense on ball. I am curious what will happen.
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Lavar ball was on the Celtics talk podcast
http://nesn.com/2017/06/heres-why-lavar-ball-believes-celtics-arent-good-fit-for-lonzo-ball/
Lavar thinks lonzo wouldn't be a good fit with celtics cuz he wouldn't get the chance to "lead the team", would be pushed to 2 guard when lonzo is more of a 1....
He said lakers will be lonzos team lol
His explanation MAKES ZERO SENSE.
Even some people online have said the same LOL, even a few Lakers fans.
He's just hell bent on getting Ball away from Boston's eye, which is perfectly fine by me ;D
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Lakers 'OK' with Lonzo Ball's workout.Ball didn't do anything great or bad in the workout, but his conditioning was not in peak form, according to Lakers beat reporter Mark Medina of the Los Angeles Daily News.
Specifically it was the running and speed drills. He looked like he had to catch a breath. Remember when lavar said his teammates didn't have foot speed? Lol
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Lakers 'OK' with Lonzo Ball's workout.Ball didn't do anything great or bad in the workout, but his conditioning was not in peak form, according to Lakers beat reporter Mark Medina of the Los Angeles Daily News.
Specifically it was the running and speed drills. He looked like he had to catch a breath. Remember when lavar said his teammates didn't have foot speed? Lol
I've read a couple times he wasn't in shape. He thought he could walk in an just take the job? I mean I get take a couple weeks off after the tourney, finish up school, heal your body and mind, then get back to work. You're 19/20, should have energy up the #$#$#$#!
If it's true, kid deserves bring drafted 5th.
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Now that we hear Ball coming into the Lakers workout (out of shape), and Jackson recently performing a private workout (with the Lakers) and now rumor to have a promise by one of the top 3 teams ...
If Ball drops...I mean drops hard.. all the way to the 10th pick (and Kings already draft Fox with #5)
should the Celtics make a trade for the 10th pick and draft Ball??
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Now that we hear Ball coming into the Lakers workout (out of shape), and Jackson recently performing a private workout (with the Lakers) and now rumor to have a promise by one of the top 3 teams ...
If Ball drops...I mean drops hard.. all the way to the 10th pick (and Kings already draft Fox with #5)
should the Celtics make a trade for the 10th pick and draft Ball??
But now with Fultz taking a work out this week with the LAkers, could DA and Magic have a trade, Lakers get #1 and Bos #2, and DA takes Jackson. DA was suppose to out there around the same time as the JAcksoon work out.
I know the love of Fultz, but some many times I see one of his shots and think "thats going to get blocked in the NBA". Plus saw a video of Fultz and how it said he showed up not in the best shape, and didn't shoot well. I'm sure early next week there will be an other work out, but thats only if Bos really wants him. Jackson is suppose to have a work out with Bos, lets see if he cancels that.
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https://youtu.be/iPteUZfRrKw
If you want to laugh, watch that footlocker fathers day video. I promise it is worth it.
Sorry if it was posted.
I like Lonzo so much more after watching this.
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Potential No. 2 overall pick Lonzo Ball and the Los Angeles Lakers have scheduled a final predraft meeting for Friday
Jackson and Ball workout for Lakers twice
No love for Boston
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https://youtu.be/iPteUZfRrKw
If you want to laugh, watch that footlocker fathers day video. I promise it is worth it.
Sorry if it was posted.
I like Lonzo so much more after watching this.
I'll put my seal of approval on this as well. One of the funniest videos I've seen in a while.
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Lakers 'OK' with Lonzo Ball's workout.Ball didn't do anything great or bad in the workout, but his conditioning was not in peak form, according to Lakers beat reporter Mark Medina of the Los Angeles Daily News.
Specifically it was the running and speed drills. He looked like he had to catch a breath. Remember when lavar said his teammates didn't have foot speed? Lol
I've read a couple times he wasn't in shape. He thought he could walk in an just take the job? I mean I get take a couple weeks off after the tourney, finish up school, heal your body and mind, then get back to work. You're 19/20, should have energy up the #$#$#$#!
If it's true, kid deserves bring drafted 5th.
I've been calling it for some time, Ball is going to Sacramento
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Ball will work out for the Lakers a second time on Friday at an undisclosed location in Los Angles county. He is hopeful the Lakers will give him some indication whether he’s “separated himself” throughout the draft process. Ball continues to have no plans to speak with or workout for the Boston Celtics, who hold the No. 1 pick. After Friday’s workout he will consider talking to other lottery teams who have asked to speak with him, according to the source. – via ESPN
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Ramona Shelburne: One note on Lonzo Ball’s workout for Lakers tomorrow — LaVar will be there as he’s part of Lonzo’s training team. – via Twitter ramonashelburne
What a pain in the behind
Lavar just doesn't get it
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i just read this.
Fox's dad calls out Lavar Ball: http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2017/06/20/deaaron-foxs-dad-calls-out-lavar-ball/
“My son already ate his ass up twice,” the elder Fox said. “[LaVar] can say what he wants to say. I just tell him to go back and watch the film. That’s it. All that yap, yap, yapping, I don’t even got to respond to that. We played them twice. Twice his son got outplayed."
ha, ha. i like fox's dad already. ;D
EDIT: and i also just saw this. just when you think lavar-world cant get any more bizzare.
Sam Strong ESPN Staff Writer
What will happen if Lonzo Ball falls to Boston at No. 3? LaVar says it will be unclear as to whose team it is. Sacramento at No. 5? They'll head overseas.
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Ramona Shelburne: One note on Lonzo Ball’s workout for Lakers tomorrow — LaVar will be there as he’s part of Lonzo’s training team. – via Twitter ramonashelburne
What a pain in the behind
Lavar just doesn't get it
Training team??? This is the Rocky equivalent to Lavar:
(https://uncletnuc.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/paulie.jpg)
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Any chance the lakers are clearing way for Fox rather than Ball? They allegedly wanted to deal 2 for 5 and 10 didnt they...
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^ no chance they get fox. Ball has a much more well rounded game than fox
Fox shoots like 20% from 3. Its ugly
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^ no chance they get fox. Ball has a much more well rounded game than fox
Fox shoots like 20% from 3. Its ugly
I'll take Fox over Ball. Fox shot significantly better later in the college season. He shot better in high school. His shot looks better than Ball or Jackson. I think he'll shoot around 33% after some development. That's good enough with the rest of his skillset. Ball's shot has significant questions besides being ugly. He mostly shoots going left. He doesn't drive or finish well in half court. How well is he going to do when he doesn't have 4 shooters on court like he did at UCLA? Of course Fox is significantly better defensively.
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Lonzo looks really really good >:(
Kinda jealous he forced his way to LA and we had no shot at all it's just SL but he looks pretty special
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^ no chance they get fox. Ball has a much more well rounded game than fox
Fox shoots like 20% from 3. Its ugly
Actually, the scouts all comment on how unbalanced ball's game is - offense but no defense.
Also, please watch the ball-fox match ups last year in college. Fox simply owned ball both games.
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Lonzo looks really really good >:(
Kinda jealous he forced his way to LA and we had no shot at all it's just SL but he looks pretty special
have you seen him play defense?
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I don't like Ball's game much, but he is unquestionably elite in transition. Of course, Summer League is pretty much going to be dominated by transition-inclined guards. He'll have his opportunities in the regular season, but if he wants to be great, he'll need to excel in the half-court.
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Lonzo looks really really good >:(
Kinda jealous he forced his way to LA and we had no shot at all it's just SL but he looks pretty special
I couldn't be happier we didn't pick him. Poor defender, terrible shooter, and a limited upside.
Lonzo "Big Rondo" Ball. We got a better prospect and a bonus pick to boot.
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LaVar Ball's message to the Wizards: They better beware cause Lonzo ain't losing again. Not in the same week!http://bit.ly/2zvmKOp
I kind of feel bad for Lonzo.... Ridiculous pressure from an unrealistic father
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He's lived with his dad all his life, I doubt it affects him very much. He was my favorite player in college last year, and if he wasn't a Lakers I'd be rooting for him in the NBA.
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He puts up stats but he is dead last in the nba in FG% and like someone else said his defense is really bad
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The measure of a true star is when you can play particularly bad BUT your TEAM wants to win it for YOU...
That's Lonzo Ball.
That trash talk from Marcin Gortat got the Laker team wanting to win it for Lonzo. The Wiz are a quality team AND a playoff team.
Once the game slows down for him he'll be special. I can easily see him coming in 2nd in ROY behind Jayson.
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The measure of a true star is when you can play particularly bad BUT your TEAM wants to win it for YOU...
That's Lonzo Ball.
That trash talk from Marcin Gortat got the Laker team wanting to win it for Lonzo. The Wiz are a quality team AND a playoff team.
Once the game slows down for him he'll be special. I can easily see him coming in 2nd in ROY behind Jayson.
Eh, I think if that happens to any other player on any other team they would do the same.
The Wizards played really bad, let's not discount that fact. I wouldnt use this game to say Lonzo IS a star (which you have said)
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In 3 out of the last games, lonzo has shot under 8% from 3. Lol
When wall was defending lonzo, lonzo put up 2 goose eggs- 0 pts and 0 assists.
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In 3 out of the last games, lonzo has shot under 8% from 3. Lol
When wall was defending lonzo, lonzo put up 2 goose eggs- 0 pts and 0 assists.
Yes, he also beat John Wall and Wizards H2H after Gortat trolled him.
I really don't get a kick out of bashing kids a la Lonzo like some folks do, it is popular now, I get it, it is "because of his dad".
Basically, people are being caught up in ESPN's premeditated construction, almost like they are being trained (with repetitive A/V inputs) to dislike someone because the Biggest sports media firm told them to.
Give me pure hoops, and guys, do not succumb to yellow journalism. Lonzo is a very talented kid, we want these in the league, right?
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Despite the horrible shooting from Ball, He was a plus 13 in the win vs Wizards. Meanwhile Wall was a minus 12.
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Despite the horrible shooting from Ball, He was a plus 13 in the win vs Wizards. Meanwhile Wall was a minus 12.
They both looked bad and I'm shocked to see Ball ended up +13 which makes me wonder how valid that stat is. Ball looked like hot trash and I'm rooting for the guy. Lakers Celtics is so much more fun with guys like Ball in the mix.
Ball will be fine once his 3 starts falling.
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He plays defense. He's the coolest basketball player I have ever seen. Nothing bothers this kid. It's impressive.
In what universe does a player with J Kidd ability and Steph Curry range and shooting % not succeed..
On the eve of the game I was wondering if your opinion has changed.