Author Topic: Elephant in Boston....  (Read 4886 times)

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Elephant in Boston....
« on: June 19, 2019, 08:50:15 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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today I spoke to a fellow who knows a lot more about the history of basketball than I do. He spoke with a lot of knowledge about Boston's sordid history with race and the long delay it took the red sox to integrate the team. He spoke about how Russell was treated in Boston and how the white players would have to stand up for him to be accommodated at restaurants and hotels.

Boston in my opinion is one of the greatest cities in the world. I just love the city. It gets a bad rap because of its history with race. You are only a stone's throw from your legacy this is great when the legacy is a good one, but horrible when it is a  bad legacy. I will give you an example. The University of Southern California has a great legacy in football, national championships heisman trophies, rose bowls, etc. It went through a drought from the the mid-seventies to 2002 when Pete Carroll resurrected the program. There was an immediate bridge from the resurrected program to the glory days of the 60s and 70s. Boston's history with race is terrible. The city has done a lot to overcome and correct that history, but as with all legacies all it takes is one bad occurrence and that legacy is resurrected. That is why I did not like Doc Rivers not embracing the city when he coached there. He did not even live there, and he was out of town at the first opportunity, Not a good look. That is why it was a terrible look when the fans cheered Gordon Hayward when he played for Utah vs. Crowder when he was busting his butt for the team (it was not a necessarily bad thing for a fan base to do, but a bad look given Boston's legacy with race). This is why it is a bad look for Danny to have traded up to pick Olynyk ahead of Giannis (not racial but bad look given Boston's legacy. That is why it is a bad look when an injured IT is before he gets a chance to rehab, but Gordon Hayward is given back his starter position when it was not ready (may have been excellent basketball decisions, but bad look in Boston) There is this narrative out there that Boston is always looking for the next great white hope. It is reinforced I believe unfairly when solid basketball decisions seem to favor a white guy in Boston.

All what I said may be unfair, but you better believe that other teams use these things against Boston when recruiting. It is also alive with the new 'woke' group of social justice warriors to revisit and revamp historical acts of racism. Celtics must acknowledge these problems and confront them head on. Fair or not the narrative is out there and it is being sold to youngsters and affecting their decisions. Some may want to explain this away by saying its the weather or the nightlife etc, but I say Boston is one of the greatest cities in the world, the Celtics should do more to sell this and start taking steps to combat the negative racial legacy that is being exploited by their opponents.

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2019, 08:55:48 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2019, 08:57:31 PM »

Offline Sketch5

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I thought Big Baby Davis was coming back to Boston... Thanks for the miss lead! ;D

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2019, 08:57:54 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense
Maybe that's because what you propose is really bad asset management. Selling something at its lowest when the value can only go up, whether that be through Hayward improving and/or becoming an expiring, makes no sense.
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2019, 09:00:47 PM »

Offline footey

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Disagree with OP’s examples but do agree that opponents and agents use the racist historic reputation against the Celtics organization. It is grounded in ignorance when it comes to the Celtics but perception more important than reality.

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2019, 09:02:58 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense
Maybe that's because what you propose is really bad asset management. Selling something at its lowest when the value can only go up, whether that be through Hayward improving and/or becoming an expiring, makes no sense.
The value can only go up???? Hmm I think this the unconditional love I’m talking about lol.
We already wasted a season and the team imploded partly because of Hayward’s special treatment and asset management of his contract

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2019, 09:04:19 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense
Maybe that's because what you propose is really bad asset management. Selling something at its lowest when the value can only go up, whether that be through Hayward improving and/or becoming an expiring, makes no sense.
The value can only go up???? Hmm I think this the unconditional love I’m talking about lol.
We already wasted a season and the team imploded partly because of Hayward’s special treatment and asset management of his contract
The value can only go up if for no other reason than the years remaining on that contract go down.

Also just looked at some of your Hayward ideas and they are just awful, so idk what to tell you.
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Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2019, 09:05:29 PM »

Offline RPGenerate

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense
Maybe that's because what you propose is really bad asset management. Selling something at its lowest when the value can only go up, whether that be through Hayward improving and/or becoming an expiring, makes no sense.
The value can only go up???? Hmm I think this the unconditional love I’m talking about lol.
We already wasted a season and the team imploded partly because of Hayward’s special treatment and asset management of his contract
Um... yes? He becomes an expiring contract regardless of how well he plays, which are quite valuable. It's really not that hard to understand.
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Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2019, 09:06:57 PM »

Offline blink

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense
Maybe that's because what you propose is really bad asset management. Selling something at its lowest when the value can only go up, whether that be through Hayward improving and/or becoming an expiring, makes no sense.
The value can only go up???? Hmm I think this the unconditional love I’m talking about lol.
We already wasted a season and the team imploded partly because of Hayward’s special treatment and asset management of his contract
Um... yes? He becomes an expiring contract regardless of how well he plays, which are quite valuable. It's really not that hard to understand.

And chances are that Hayward is going to play better and have more freedom to get better numbers with the situation here next year.  I mean it is kind of self explanatory right?

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2019, 09:09:07 PM »

Offline seancally

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Show me an American city that does not have a troubled history with race. For outsiders to say Boston is racist but, say, NYC or LA gets a pass is cherrypicking. Boston’s racial past is problematic. Today there are still issues, but fewer - and fewer than in other cities.

The entire country needs to face its racist foundations head on to collectively move past it.
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Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2019, 09:10:23 PM »

Offline NKY fan

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense
Maybe that's because what you propose is really bad asset management. Selling something at its lowest when the value can only go up, whether that be through Hayward improving and/or becoming an expiring, makes no sense.
The value can only go up???? Hmm I think this the unconditional love I’m talking about lol.
We already wasted a season and the team imploded partly because of Hayward’s special treatment and asset management of his contract
Um... yes? He becomes an expiring contract regardless of how well he plays, which are quite valuable. It's really not that hard to understand.
No need for these remarks.

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2019, 09:10:40 PM »

Offline blink

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Show me an American city that does not have a troubled history with race. For outsiders to say Boston is racist but, say, NYC or LA gets a pass is cherrypicking. Boston’s racial past is problematic. Today there are still issues, but fewer - and fewer than in other cities.

The entire country needs to face its racist foundations head on to collectively move past it.

exactly.  here's an example how it is everywhere not just boston.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/19/us/philadelphia-social-media-officers-leave-trnd/index.html

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2019, 09:16:15 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I don’t agree with what you’re saying but the unconditional love for Hayward on this site baffles me?
Like when I’m proposing trading him for expiring contracts of serviceable players I get hated on... it makes no sense
Maybe that's because what you propose is really bad asset management. Selling something at its lowest when the value can only go up, whether that be through Hayward improving and/or becoming an expiring, makes no sense.
The value can only go up???? Hmm I think this the unconditional love I’m talking about lol.
We already wasted a season and the team imploded partly because of Hayward’s special treatment and asset management of his contract
Yes, the value can literally only go up. Hayward improved as the season went on, and it is pretty fair to assume he'll improve considerably with a) consistent touches, b) a less fractured locker-room and c) a better coaching job by Brad.

And as many others have said, the value will increase as the amount of money Hayward is owed decreases. It's why nobody will trade for Andrew Wiggins or Chris Paul, but some people might trade for similarly overpaid players if they have 1 or 2 years remaining on their contract.
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PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2019, 09:18:24 PM »

Offline Ogaju

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Disagree with OP’s examples but do agree that opponents and agents use the racist historic reputation against the Celtics organization. It is grounded in ignorance when it comes to the Celtics but perception more important than reality.

Dont you agree that Celtics should do something to address this.

Re: Elephant in Boston....
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2019, 09:19:27 PM »

Offline mctyson

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this is all dumb and has nothing to do with the current team