Let's play a game called "Split up the Cap Space"

[mctyson]

S $58 Mil is the limit, and we have roughly $25 Mil to spend after Pierce, Rondo, Bradley, and JJJ.

This is actually really simple, and it all depends on one guy: KG.

If KG wants to play basketball again, he will come back to Boston...IF...we come relatively close to matching any open market offers he gets from other serious NBA Finals contenders.  We cannot low ball this guy.  If someone offers him $15 Mil, we have to come close to that.  It is difficult to know how much KG will get because of his age, but I totally think he is worth $15 Mil for 2 years based on his play this year.  So let's just say that we get somewhat of a hometown discount and we sign him: $12 Mil for KG.

That gives us $13 Mil and we only have 7 players on our roster (including the 2 1st rounders.) I think that means Ray Allen is a goner.  I would love to see him stay, but my guess is he gets $8M from some team.  We cannot spend $20 Mil for KG and Ray and leave only $5 Mil for the rest of our rotation.

Hopefully Bass takes his player option at $4.25 Mil.  Let's say he doesn't, we bump it up to $5 Mil.  $5 Mil for BB.

Resign Jeff Green at $6 mil.

That leaves $2 Mil.  I use that for Stiemer and E'Twaun Moore, plus another veteran at the minimum (Dooling probably.)  If we can find a way to get Pietrus in there, either by saving money on the KG or Green contracts, I do it to.

That's all the cap space for next season.  We basically replace Ray Allen with Jeff Green and 2 1st round draft picks.  I think that puts us around 12-13 players on the roster.  That's about as good as Danny could do without making any trades.

[mctyson]

Is the new cap hard?  Who says we can't go over?

It's the same as it ever was.  It's a soft cap.  You can exceed the cap to sign your own players (players under contract with bird rights).  But you need to RENOUNCE those bird rights in order to utilize potential cap space.  So in order to have that mythical "25 million" in cap space, you'd need to renounce bird rights to Ray, KG, Bass, etc. 

Here's what the issue is (I think)... we don't own the Bird rights to Jeff Green anymore (from what I'm reading).  He's an unrestricted free agent.  If we want to give him 7 million, then... we need to give up bird rights to KG, Ray, etc.  It's almost like we have a choice... we either completely forget about the potential mythical cap room (and just re-sign everyone under contract)... which would mean saying goodbye to Jeff Green.  Or...  we take a path that likely ends with us saying goodbye to Ray Allen.

Jeff Green is a restricted free agent, we have his Bird rights.

[LarBrd33]

No Bass or Pietrus for me and not $9M for J Green.

Ok... so you letting Green walk or are you giving him less than 9? 

  Who really thinks that Green's worth what he was before his heart issue? I would be a little surprised to see him get more than 4-5 million if he even gets that much.

That's why I thought it was interesting that Peter May said he'd want close to 9 mil.  That seems high.  I do think he has some value, though.  He's a solid player.  The heart thing will limit the length of his contract, but do you really think no team would be willing to give him more than 5 million on a one year deal?... 25 year old player who proved capable of getting 15 and 6 while playing out of position in OKC as the 3rd scorer.

[LarBrd33]

Green at 6 or 7 mil I want, Green at 9 mil a year after heart surgery, no thanks .

If Bass opts out and wants anything more than 5 or 6 for 1 year I let him walk. JJJ has a lot of the same skill set as Bass and if he is able to add 15lbs by next season he should be ready to contribute . We also can get a Bass replacement in the draft (White, Draymond Green, Nicholson)

I let Ray walk if he demands to be a starter(which I don't think he will) or wants more than 2-3 mil on a 1 or 2 year deal . Like Bass his talent at this point in his career can be filled by one of the draft picks (Ross, Jenkins, Daron Lamb)

1)Resign KG on a 1 year 8 mil deal

2)Resign Green takes a 1 or 2 year 7 mil per deal

3)Let Ray Walk unless he will take vet min. Replace his mins with Bradley draft pick and cap space

4)[/b]We let Bass walk and the backup PF mins go to Green JJJ and draft pick White/Draymond Green/Nicholoson

Thats about 15 mil for Green and KG. You now have 10 mil to get a big man and fill out the roster. I would offer McGee a 4 year 10 mil per deal.

 If we can't get McGee I would try to go after someone like Odom,Kaman,or Humpheries  on a 7 or 8 mil 1 year deal ( What other contenders could offer that kind of money?).

With the remaining 3 mil of cap space you try to fill the scoring at the guard position off the bench . I personally would like Chauncey Billups if he has fully recovered from his surgery. He can play both guard spots off the bench and we would finally have a real backup PG! Come on Billups, finish your career where you started it !

Realistic Roster next year

PG: Rondo   / Billups(1yr 3 mil)/ Moore
SG: Bradley / Pietrus (vet min) / Draft pick
SF: PP      / Green            
PF: Odom    / Draft pick(White,Draymond Green,Nicholson)/ JJJ
C : KG      / Wilcox (vet min)/ Steamer

*Jeff Green will also play backup PF too.

I really like the versatility and athletic ability of the roster. Really love having a backup PG with Billups who can play SG too and replace Ray.

What do you guys think?

Solid play.  Fit within the confines of reality.  TP.  So I think we are starting to see why everyone seems to believe Ray is a goner.  You're replacing Ray and Bass with a (hopefully) better big man.  I know you put Lamar on the low end of your wish list (Ray + Bass for Lamar isn't that good of a trade, if you ask me).   Rank your "wish list" for that 10 mil center position.  

Well actually if Bass opted out that would be another 4.5 mil added to the original 25 mil of cap space then right?

No.   25 mil IF Bass opts out.  

You were right the first time around.  You gave KG and Green a combined 15 mil, let Bass and Ray walk... and have 10 mil to play with.

oh ok well in that case the guys i would offer 10 mil to would be

McGee
Hibbert
Illyasova ( highest I would offer )
Gordon

If we can't sign Hibbert,Illyasova Gordon or McGee our free agent targets will be guys that can be signed on 1 year deals(Kaman,Humpheries,Camby) and younger players that won't be too expensive like Mayo

That's fair.  I'd be comfortable offering 10 mil to McGee, Hibbert or Gordon also. But I see no reason why their teams wouldn't match our offer.  Illyasova is unrestricted, though.  He's aiight.   Is Illysova > Ray and Bass?

[LarBrd33]

Is the new cap hard?  Who says we can't go over?

It's the same as it ever was.  It's a soft cap.  You can exceed the cap to sign your own players (players under contract with bird rights).  But you need to RENOUNCE those bird rights in order to utilize potential cap space.  So in order to have that mythical "25 million" in cap space, you'd need to renounce bird rights to Ray, KG, Bass, etc.  

Here's what the issue is (I think)... we don't own the Bird rights to Jeff Green anymore (from what I'm reading).  He's an unrestricted free agent.  If we want to give him 7 million, then... we need to give up bird rights to KG, Ray, etc.  It's almost like we have a choice... we either completely forget about the potential mythical cap room (and just re-sign everyone under contract)... which would mean saying goodbye to Jeff Green.  Or...  we take a path that likely ends with us saying goodbye to Ray Allen.

Jeff Green is a restricted free agent, we have his Bird rights.

Source?

I was under the impression we gave up his bird rights since we cancelled the 1 year deal we gave him... meaning he's an unrestricted free agent.  I have't gotten clarification from anyone on if we still retain his bird rights, though.

[snively]

If you're going to keep KG, Bass, Green and Ray, it's probably counter productive to even renounce the rights. 

Those four will combine to make around $25 mil on the open market, so you'd be better off using bird/early bird rights to resign them and then use the MLE to add an additional impact player. 

If we renounce them and resign them with cap space, we'll only have that stretch exception, or $2.5 mil, to sign anyone.

Renouncing is what we'd do if we wanted to pursue other free agents above the MLE level (or I guess, multiple MLE level targets).

[mctyson]

Source?

I follow him on twitter...he himself said he was a restricted FA.  Though I guess he could be misinformed.

[LarBrd33]

If you're going to keep KG, Bass, Green and Ray, it's probably counter productive to even renounce the rights. 

Those four will combine to make around $25 mil on the open market, so you'd be better off using bird/early bird rights to resign them and then use the MLE to add an additional impact player. 

If we renounce them and resign them with cap space, we'll only have that stretch exception, or $2.5 mil, to sign anyone.

Renouncing is what we'd do if we wanted to pursue other free agents above the MLE level (or I guess, multiple MLE level targets).

I agree with this entirely, but what I can't get clarification on is whether we even have Jeff Green's bird rights.  I've been asking that question for a while and nobody seems to know the answer.  If we DON'T have his bird rigths... we'd need to renounce players just to have money to offer Jeff.

[rondohondo]

Green at 6 or 7 mil I want, Green at 9 mil a year after heart surgery, no thanks .

If Bass opts out and wants anything more than 5 or 6 for 1 year I let him walk. JJJ has a lot of the same skill set as Bass and if he is able to add 15lbs by next season he should be ready to contribute . We also can get a Bass replacement in the draft (White, Draymond Green, Nicholson)

I let Ray walk if he demands to be a starter(which I don't think he will) or wants more than 2-3 mil on a 1 or 2 year deal . Like Bass his talent at this point in his career can be filled by one of the draft picks (Ross, Jenkins, Daron Lamb)

1)Resign KG on a 1 year 8 mil deal

2)Resign Green takes a 1 or 2 year 7 mil per deal

3)Let Ray Walk unless he will take vet min. Replace his mins with Bradley draft pick and cap space

4)[/b]We let Bass walk and the backup PF mins go to Green JJJ and draft pick White/Draymond Green/Nicholoson

Thats about 15 mil for Green and KG. You now have 10 mil to get a big man and fill out the roster. I would offer McGee a 4 year 10 mil per deal.

 If we can't get McGee I would try to go after someone like Odom,Kaman,or Humpheries  on a 7 or 8 mil 1 year deal ( What other contenders could offer that kind of money?).

With the remaining 3 mil of cap space you try to fill the scoring at the guard position off the bench . I personally would like Chauncey Billups if he has fully recovered from his surgery. He can play both guard spots off the bench and we would finally have a real backup PG! Come on Billups, finish your career where you started it !

Realistic Roster next year

PG: Rondo   / Billups(1yr 3 mil)/ Moore
SG: Bradley / Pietrus (vet min) / Draft pick
SF: PP      / Green            
PF: Odom    / Draft pick(White,Draymond Green,Nicholson)/ JJJ
C : KG      / Wilcox (vet min)/ Steamer

*Jeff Green will also play backup PF too.

I really like the versatility and athletic ability of the roster. Really love having a backup PG with Billups who can play SG too and replace Ray.

What do you guys think?

Solid play.  Fit within the confines of reality.  TP.  So I think we are starting to see why everyone seems to believe Ray is a goner.  You're replacing Ray and Bass with a (hopefully) better big man.  I know you put Lamar on the low end of your wish list (Ray + Bass for Lamar isn't that good of a trade, if you ask me).   Rank your "wish list" for that 10 mil center position.  

Well actually if Bass opted out that would be another 4.5 mil added to the original 25 mil of cap space then right?

No.   25 mil IF Bass opts out.  

You were right the first time around.  You gave KG and Green a combined 15 mil, let Bass and Ray walk... and have 10 mil to play with.

oh ok well in that case the guys i would offer 10 mil to would be

McGee
Hibbert
Illyasova ( highest I would offer )
Gordon

If we can't sign Hibbert,Illyasova Gordon or McGee our free agent targets will be guys that can be signed on 1 year deals(Kaman,Humpheries,Camby) and younger players that won't be too expensive like Mayo

That's fair.  I'd be comfortable offering 10 mil to McGee, Hibbert or Gordon also. But I see no reason why their teams wouldn't match our offer.  Illyasova is unrestricted, though.  He's aiight.   Is Illysova > Ray and Bass?

no but I think Illyasova and Billups >Ray and Bass

Illyasova can do everything Bass can but is a better much better rebounder ( 9RPG in only 27 MPG). He also has 3 pt range (45% on 3 attempts per game). He can also get out on the break and run with Rondo for the alley oops.

Chauncey Billups is a comparable player to Ray. Has made many clutch shot, very good 3 point shooter and can actually create for himself and other unlike Ray

[LarBrd33]

Source?

I follow him on twitter...he himself said he was a restricted FA.  Though I guess he could be misinformed.

Peter May today said he was unrestricted.  It's a weird situation, because I think we extended him a qualifying offer 1 year contract and then after we learned about his heart issue we pulled it...   Whether he is restricted or not isn't really my concern... whether we have his bird rights matters, though.

[LooseCannon]

 Who really thinks that Green's worth what he was before his heart issue? I would be a little surprised to see him get more than 4-5 million if he even gets that much.

I think that the heart issue is less of a concern than a player returning from something like a torn ACL.

[LarBrd33]

Source?

I follow him on twitter...he himself said he was a restricted FA.  Though I guess he could be misinformed.

Peter May today said he was unrestricted.  It's a weird situation, because I think we extended him a qualifying offer 1 year contract and then after we learned about his heart issue we pulled it...   Whether he is restricted or not isn't really my concern... whether we have his bird rights matters, though.

Here we go.  Found this from January:

The Boston Celtics gave Jeff Green an unexpected gift. Green is out with his heart condition for the season, but he still managed to make the news as Boston withdrew their qualifying offer to the young power forward. The move now means that next season Green is an unrestricted free agent free to sign with any team of his choosing.
...

Before anyone thinks this is the end of Jeff Green in Boston there is a very important fact to remember. The Celtics still own Bird Rights on Green. This means they can pay out more money than anyone else and over the cap to retain his services.

So ... what that actually means is that we can say "the heck" with any of the mythical cap space, resign KG to whatever he wants, resign Ray to whatever he wants, resign Bass to whatever he wants, resign Jeff Green to whatever he wants, keep our two 1st rounders, offer the MLE to someone (Pietrus?) .... and march into next season with a slightly better team than the one we just had.

Anyone think they can create a better team by utilizing mythical cap space?

[Quetzalcoatl]

Josh Smith is on the books for $13 mil next year, we could S&T Ray and Bass to the Hawks + a pick or something.  Hawks fans aren't too big on Smith right now

[LarBrd33]

Josh Smith is on the books for $13 mil next year, we could S&T Ray and Bass to the Hawks + a pick or something.  Hawks fans aren't too big on Smith right now

WOuld the Hawks rather have Ray ALlen and Bass next year at 13 mil... or Josh Smith for 13 mil?

I guess if you throw in a pick... maybe.  But that comes down to whether Ray ALlen has any interest in playing in Atlanta, I think.

[mctyson]

Source?

I follow him on twitter...he himself said he was a restricted FA.  Though I guess he could be misinformed.

Peter May today said he was unrestricted.  It's a weird situation, because I think we extended him a qualifying offer 1 year contract and then after we learned about his heart issue we pulled it...   Whether he is restricted or not isn't really my concern... whether we have his bird rights matters, though.

Here we go.  Found this from January:

The Boston Celtics gave Jeff Green an unexpected gift. Green is out with his heart condition for the season, but he still managed to make the news as Boston withdrew their qualifying offer to the young power forward. The move now means that next season Green is an unrestricted free agent free to sign with any team of his choosing.
...

Before anyone thinks this is the end of Jeff Green in Boston there is a very important fact to remember. The Celtics still own Bird Rights on Green. This means they can pay out more money than anyone else and over the cap to retain his services.

So ... what that actually means is that we can say "the heck" with any of the mythical cap space, resign KG to whatever he wants, resign Ray to whatever he wants, resign Bass to whatever he wants, resign Jeff Green to whatever he wants, keep our two 1st rounders, offer the MLE to someone (Pietrus?) .... and march into next season with a slightly better team than the one we just had.

Anyone think they can create a better team by utilizing mythical cap space?

Hmmm. JG better talk to his agent then, because he is telling the twitterverse the wrong stuff.

And...NO.  We could not possibly create a better team through  free agency this year.  I still don't think Ray will resign but if we can give him whatever and the owners will pay any luxury tax then all bets are off.