NBA Playoffs 2019-2020

[KGs Knee]

It definitely is a narrative that sticks.

Sure, for some people it does. Of course, these people are just miserable and jealous bums who shouldn't be paid any attention.

They're very bit as bad as the losers who hate on guys like Doc and Kyrie. Worthless fools is all they are.

[RJ87]

It definitely is a narrative that sticks.

Sure, for some people it does. Of course, these people are just miserable and jealous bums who shouldn't be paid any attention.

They're very bit as bad as the losers who hate on guys like Doc and Kyrie. Worthless fools is all they are.

I doubt anyone cares about narratives when the Lakers are raising their 17th banner.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

It definitely is a narrative that sticks.

Sure, for some people it does. Of course, these people are just miserable and jealous bums who shouldn't be paid any attention.

They're very bit as bad as the losers who hate on guys like Doc and Kyrie. Worthless fools is all they are.

I doubt anyone cares about narratives when the Lakers are raising their 17th banner.

It'll only be their 12th in my book. I know that I'm the only one who cares about my book, but I'll argue to my dying day that L.A. misappropriated the 5 Minny titles.

[PhoSita]

It definitely is a narrative that sticks.

Sure, for some people it does. Of course, these people are just miserable and jealous bums who shouldn't be paid any attention.

They're very bit as bad as the losers who hate on guys like Doc and Kyrie. Worthless fools is all they are.

LOL

[PhoSita]

It definitely is a narrative that sticks.

Sure, for some people it does. Of course, these people are just miserable and jealous bums who shouldn't be paid any attention.

They're very bit as bad as the losers who hate on guys like Doc and Kyrie. Worthless fools is all they are.

I doubt anyone cares about narratives when the Lakers are raising their 17th banner.

Literally the only thing that makes sports interesting outside of the pure spectacle is the narrative that gets overlaid on what happens.


Sports minus narrative is just people doing athletic stuff.


Just talking about LeBron's career -- the 2012 and 2013 titles are equivalent in the sense that they are both worth one championship ring.

But which Finals series was more memorable?  Which one felt like a greater achievement given what Bron had to overcome?

The 2013 Finals were unforgettable.  It still hurts thinking back to how Game 6 ended. 

All that I remember about the 2012 Finals was how the Thunder were too young to give the Heat a good series despite all their talent.

[RJ87]

It definitely is a narrative that sticks.

Sure, for some people it does. Of course, these people are just miserable and jealous bums who shouldn't be paid any attention.

They're very bit as bad as the losers who hate on guys like Doc and Kyrie. Worthless fools is all they are.

I doubt anyone cares about narratives when the Lakers are raising their 17th banner.

Literally the only thing that makes sports interesting outside of the pure spectacle is the narrative that gets overlaid on what happens.


Sports minus narrative is just people doing athletic stuff.


Just talking about LeBron's career -- the 2012 and 2013 titles are equivalent in the sense that they are both worth one championship ring.

But which Finals series was more memorable?  Which one felt like a greater achievement given what Bron had to overcome?

The 2013 Finals were unforgettable.  It still hurts thinking back to how Game 6 ended. 

All that I remember about the 2012 Finals was how the Thunder were too young to give the Heat a good series despite all their talent.

I gotta be honest. Until I googled it, I totally forgot who Lebron played against in 2013.

I think any narratives that try to undercut this championship is going to be drowned out. What's a more dominating narrative than LA rising from the dead and cementing their place as the most important franchise in the league by tying for most championships? The Lakers are already marketed as this premiere organization (even though they haven't been ran as such over the past few years). Now it's all going to be about the Lakers returning to glory and as far as Lebron, he's the guy who kicked off this new era of prominence for a once great franchise that had been floundering.

Everything else will drown underneath talk of "Lebron revived the Lakers" and "Lebron leads 3rd franchise to championship".

[PhoSita]

I gotta be honest. Until I googled it, I totally forgot who Lebron played against in 2013.

I would hazard a guess that most people who follow the sport closely remember the Ray Allen shot and that it came against the Spurs.

That's not to throw shade on you, we all have things we remember more or less (that goes hand in hand with the narratives we find compelling / focus on).  But I do think it's a thing most fans of the sport remember clearly.


Certainly when you listen to people who cover the sport, you hear a lot more about the Ray Allen shot and the battles the Heat had against the Spurs in 2013 and 2014 than you do about that lop sided 2012 Finals against the Thunder.

In one way what I'm arguing is that the more memorable Finals series carry more weight in the way they stick around in the popular memory / what stories we retell when looking back at an NBA era.

Some of that depends on which players you enjoy and which fan base you're a part of.  But I do think there are certain titles that end up meaning more than others for various reasons.

Another example is 2016 --- I think people give Bron a lot more credit for that title, for obvious reasons, than they give Curry credit for the 2017 and 2018 titles, for example.

[Donoghus]

More bad news for Miami.

Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
9m
Miami Heat guard Goran Dragic (left foot torn plantar fascia) and forward Bam Adebayo (neck strain) are both listed as doubtful for Game 2.

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

More bad news for Miami.

Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
9m
Miami Heat guard Goran Dragic (left foot torn plantar fascia) and forward Bam Adebayo (neck strain) are both listed as doubtful for Game 2.

Seriously, the Lakers' march to the title is just a farce at this point. Miami's best players got banged up in Game 1, two of them are unlikely to play in Game 2. I mean, how much easier can it get for the Lakers?

I'll be putting an asterisk next to this title, right along with the 5 Minny titles.

[PhoSita]

More bad news for Miami.

Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
9m
Miami Heat guard Goran Dragic (left foot torn plantar fascia) and forward Bam Adebayo (neck strain) are both listed as doubtful for Game 2.

Seriously, the Lakers' march to the title is just a farce at this point. Miami's best players got banged up in Game 1, two of them are unlikely to play in Game 2. I mean, how much easier can it get for the Lakers?

I'll be putting an asterisk next to this title, right along with the 5 Minny titles.

Yeah, it's disappointing.  Even if they were going to win, I wish we could have seen them actually get challenged at some point.

Through the first few minutes of the 1st quarter last night it looked like we might be in for a really entertaining, competitive series.

That uh ... evaporated quickly.

[RJ87]

I gotta be honest. Until I googled it, I totally forgot who Lebron played against in 2013.

I would hazard a guess that most people who follow the sport closely remember the Ray Allen shot and that it came against the Spurs.

That's not to throw shade on you, we all have things we remember more or less (that goes hand in hand with the narratives we find compelling / focus on).  But I do think it's a thing most fans of the sport remember clearly.


Certainly when you listen to people who cover the sport, you hear a lot more about the Ray Allen shot and the battles the Heat had against the Spurs in 2013 and 2014 than you do about that lop sided 2012 Finals against the Thunder.

In one way what I'm arguing is that the more memorable Finals series carry more weight in the way they stick around in the popular memory / what stories we retell when looking back at an NBA era.

Some of that depends on which players you enjoy and which fan base you're a part of.  But I do think there are certain titles that end up meaning more than others for various reasons.

Another example is 2016 --- I think people give Bron a lot more credit for that title, for obvious reasons, than they give Curry credit for the 2017 and 2018 titles, for example.

Sure, I remember the shot. But I don't think that series being "harder fought" makes that championship more memorable. One can argue that the Heat's 2012 run was more memorable and will have a bigger place in the lore because it was Lebron's first ring after failing to get over the hump so many times. It basically validated The Decision and all the vitriol that came with it.

That's my point though. Every championship run has it's own narrative. You can go doing through the past and ascribe one to any trophy but in the grand scheme, a championship is a championship. Those narratives don't really matter.

[PhoSita]

That's my point though. Every championship run has it's own narrative. You can go doing through the past and ascribe one to any trophy but in the grand scheme, a championship is a championship. Those narratives don't really matter.

You can always try to argue that one story of a title run is more compelling than another.  You can make your argument that the 2012 one is more meaningful than the 2013 one.

To me, apart from reacting emotionally in the moment, talking and arguing about those narratives is what being a fan is about.


Narrative is the main thing that matters.


Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree, I think. 


A title run that ends with a competitive series against a quality opponent has more weight and meaning, to me, especially if the players on the winning team had to go through adversity and struggle together on that team in order to reach that point.


A bunch of guys coming together via trade or free agency to play for a new team and then rolling to a title without ever really being in danger of elimination ... that's not a compelling story, to me.


Imagine if the Celtics in 2008 had never faced LeBron or the Pistons, they lost a total of 4 games, and the Finals win had come against, say, Chris Paul's young Hornets team.  I don't think that would be nearly as remarkable to look back on.  Sure, a title is a title.  Especially given the 20+ year drought, any title in 2008 would have been sweet.  But it was that much sweeter because of the teams they vanquished to get there, especially beating Kobe's Lakers at the end of it.


That Raptors title last year is a much better story because of their struggles earlier in the decade against LeBron and because Kyle Lowry, who was the face of those teams that struggled, was still on the team as a major contributor when they finally won it all.


I can't convince you of any of this, because it's subjective. But I believe most people care about narrative a lot more than you're suggesting.

[gouki88]

It definitely is a narrative that sticks.

Sure, for some people it does. Of course, these people are just miserable and jealous bums who shouldn't be paid any attention.

They're very bit as bad as the losers who hate on guys like Doc and Kyrie. Worthless fools is all they are.

Being very precious about guys who routinely failed the Celtics here, lol

[RJ87]

That's my point though. Every championship run has it's own narrative. You can go doing through the past and ascribe one to any trophy but in the grand scheme, a championship is a championship. Those narratives don't really matter.

You can always try to argue that one story of a title run is more compelling than another.  You can make your argument that the 2012 one is more meaningful than the 2013 one.

To me, apart from reacting emotionally in the moment, talking and arguing about those narratives is what being a fan is about.


Narrative is the main thing that matters.


Anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree, I think. 


A title run that ends with a competitive series against a quality opponent has more weight and meaning, to me, especially if the players on the winning team had to go through adversity and struggle together on that team in order to reach that point.


A bunch of guys coming together via trade or free agency to play for a new team and then rolling to a title without ever really being in danger of elimination ... that's not a compelling story, to me.


Imagine if the Celtics in 2008 had never faced LeBron or the Pistons, they lost a total of 4 games, and the Finals win had come against, say, Chris Paul's young Hornets team.  I don't think that would be nearly as remarkable to look back on.  Sure, a title is a title.  Especially given the 20+ year drought, any title in 2008 would have been sweet.  But it was that much sweeter because of the teams they vanquished to get there, especially beating Kobe's Lakers at the end of it.


That Raptors title last year is a much better story because of their struggles earlier in the decade against LeBron and because Kyle Lowry, who was the face of those teams that struggled, was still on the team as a major contributor when they finally won it all.


I can't convince you of any of this, because it's subjective. But I believe most people care about narrative a lot more than you're suggesting.

Yeah, I do think we'll have to agree to disagree. In my opinion, those types of narratives are used mostly to belittle/discredit a player's or team's accomplishments and it's always felt like a little bit of sour grapes to me. I'm not going to take away from GSW's success over the past few years because they were "stacked". That disregards the team building and player development they put into that team. The Lakers came into the bubble this year under the same circumstances other playoff teams did, those other squads couldn't take advantage of the opportunity. Doesn't result in an asterisk for me.

If it was the Celtics 3 wins away from a title, a narrative would mean diddly squat to me. I'd only care about banner 18.

[PhoSita]

If it was the Celtics 3 wins away from a title, a narrative would mean diddly squat to me. I'd only care about banner 18.

Maybe this isn't what you mean at all, but to me this sounds like you're saying that the 2012 run, which ended short of the Finals, or the 2010 run, which was a quarter away from a title win, ends up "meaning" the same as the 2015 season in which they got destroyed in the first round, or the 2006 season in which they won 33 games and missed the playoffs.


You're entitled to feel that way but man, I just don't understand what you get out of being a fan if that's the case.  I feel like you have to be able to appreciate the journey, including all the stuff that leads up to and perhaps falls short of winning it all.


By same token, the way a team gets to the point of winning a title has to matter. Otherwise this all feels kind of bloodless and cold, to me.