Poll

Smart or Hayward?

Keep Smart
Keep Hayward

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Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« on: October 25, 2020, 02:11:53 PM »

Offline LilRip

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A lot of us seem to be in agreement that the team needs a big and a shooter. Let’s assume there’s a willing trade partner (take your pick among the many names thrown around on this board) and that the GMs will find a way to make salaries work, but they want one of Smart or Hayward in return.

Who would you be more inclined to ship out to provide decent shooting and frontcourt help, and who would you keep beside Kemba and the Jays?

If we keep Smart, then assume he stays on his team friendly deal. If we keep Hayward, then assume he opts to resign on an equally team friendly deal but with a NTC. I assume in either scenario, no cap relief will be coming
- LilRip

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 02:53:44 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Hard to say.

I'm sick of Smart trying to take control of games by bricking 3's on offense, but his defense is there and can be monstrous with Brown on the floor.

But I'm also sick of Hayward getting hurt and being a nonfactor in playoff games, but when he's really healthy he's decent...which is almost never the case during his Celtics tenure.


I think I'll keep Smart.



#JTJB (Just Trade Jaylen Brown)
#JFJM (Just Fire Joe Mazzulla)

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 03:17:12 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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If you could also guarantee a healthy Hayward I'd take Hayward.

Right now feel like both can go, Im rather indifferent. I see both guys as just role players.

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 03:40:02 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I feel Smart's team friendly deal would be considerably less expensive than Hayward's team friendly deal. Smart is also quite a bit younger and would seemingly be easier to move than Hayward should the need arise. In addition, he provides excellent defense and at least as much versatility and playmaking as Hayward. I would also expect his him to miss fewer games due to injuries/rest and there are many who believe in his ability to bring energy and intensity in the most important moments.

I absolutely hate Smart's decision making at times and - even with what I said above- I acknowledge that Hayward has more pure talent; but I still pretty easily take Smart. If you have them each making $13-15M/yr, then I think you can have a conversation, but Smart would be a much better value than Hayward given their difference in salaries.

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2020, 04:04:21 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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 It’s such a tough question. I think Hayward is the superior player and I don’t believe in curses so I don’t assume he’ll get hurt more than the next guy. I’m way more concerned about Kemba. Hayward without a Sore foot was the zone breaker. NOBODY else seemed to either get the message to continue to go to the foul line, Brad wasn’t insisting on it,  or nobody felt comfortable doing so. That was really a shock in real time to me. Even a somewhat compromised Hayward ( not the athlete he once was) is way less a concern to me than Kemba Walker being “not himself” after a super long layoff and no word of surgery. Why is Celtic nation not more freaked out about this? He’s on the books for awhile.

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2020, 04:06:05 PM »

Online tazzmaniac

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Can we trade them both to get Jrue Holiday? 

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2020, 04:10:21 PM »

Offline dannyboy35

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  All my blabbing I forgot to make my point that if we are even dreaming about winning NOW. Meaning passing on a deal for Smart to move up and nab a guy Ainge is loving. Even if Danny was leaving that way he’s gotta weigh that gs Kemba’s health. But if we don’t have a healthy Kemba are we winning a title? Extremely doubtful so maybe you DO go for a better prospect back in a Marcus trade. But some people just block their ears to that. We are so lucky to have Danny. Franchise 1st. Name in the front of the jersey. He understands that’s his responsibility.

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2020, 04:39:38 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Can we trade them both to get Jrue Holiday?
Only if we got Redick back in part of the deal
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2020, 06:19:10 PM »

Online wdleehi

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Doesn't it depend on who the Celtics get back?  I mean I don't know who is available that gives the Celtics a better chance to win.

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2020, 07:13:13 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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This is an easy question.

Smart.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2020, 07:19:47 PM »

Offline Phantom255x

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Smart, because I do think he gives you that little juice and toughness the team really needs.

I also think while Hayward can help, it might be better for the development of Tatum and Brown if they do "addition by subtraction" to get them more opportunities and have even bigger roles. Hayward's a bit redundant and of course the contract situation is another factor.

I personally am following those Pacers-Hayward rumors. Idk if they are actually true but if you could work out a package that could get a Myles Turner and someone else (like Warren who can help immensely from the bench), that'd be nice. I mean, Towns isn't available and there's really not another Anthony Davis out there. But they NEED a big man and some size. I'd consider a Baynes reunion too at the right price.

I'm somewhat encouraged that we are hearing the C's are exploring big man options. I don't want Drummond, but if they are "monitoring" that situation as well as Myles Turner and others, maybe Danny is really looking at making a big man addition. We can hope.

Again, Myles Turner isn't perfect and has some flaws, but that's a lot of centers in the league. He's still young and can make an impact. 
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2020, 07:56:38 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Fully dependent on return and future contract (more so for Hayward)
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2020, 09:49:15 PM »

Offline ozgod

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If I had to pick either/or I would have to go with Smartacus. Less skilled overall but more tenacious and he's got the mongrel our team needs. But for the right price I'd be happy to keep Hayward too. Just a shame that the market will dictate his worth, rather than the fans.
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2020, 11:26:33 PM »

Offline Hoopvortex

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Smart is a core player going forward, Hayward is not.

Both help you win games in their different ways.

I didn't vote in the poll - there's no reason why you can't keep both.

The OP said that we need a big or a shooter - Hayward is an excellent shooter; but more than that, he gets his teammates good shots.

@dannyboy35 mentioned that he's more concerned about Kemba Walker's knee. I share that concern. His game depends on skill and quickness with the ball; if he's out, Boston's offense shifts down a gear. This is a concern for next season, and the Celtics should retain some flexibility to add a point guard for the stretch run.

I like Wanamaker, but he does not create a lot of shots for his teammates. He's been turnover-prone, so it's maybe not even wise to ask him to try to do more to get his teammates going. He's got good size and discipline and gives up his body on defense, gets lots of deflections - solid team defender, and gets to the line (and of course he led the league in FT%).

What Kemba brings to the game is difficult to replace. Smart doesn't have Kemba's quickness - with and without the ball; or his shooting; or that all-important shot-creating for his teammates.

But no, don't trade Smart for Jrue Holiday, as good as Jrue is. They're different players; Smart fills a lot of holes, provides whatever is wanted and needed whenever he's on the court, and above all he provides championship-grade leadership.

He took a big step forward this year, brought his turnovers way down, shot a decent 3-pt% - but calling out Jaylen and the team in the Miami series was a great moment for him and the Boston Celtics. Nothing personal. I note with interest that they won the following game, and Jaylen was great.

Brad has said that Marcus does "the hard things" - that includes getting loose balls and crunch-time steals, but it also includes the mental part.

A big or a shooter (or a bench scorer, which others have mentioned)? I don't agree with that whole approach, I think it's the wrong way around. If you add anyone this off-season, let it be an improvement over an existing player, an upgrade - not a strategy to fill some theoretical slot.  Get a good player, don't get someone to fill a role - let the coaching staff figure out how to make it work. It's hard to argue with how thoroughly they re-vamped the Celtic offense to fit their personnel this year; and the offense wound up better than the year before.

Boston was fifth (some say fourth, depends on how you calculate possessions) in offense and also fourth in defense last year. The bench was sixth in net points. Obviously the Conference Finals is nothing to sneeze at, either, and they even out-scored Miami despite losing four games to two.

As Danny Ainge has frequently pointed out, you can't just get "a rebounder" if he's going to make the team weaker in other areas. So trading Hayward or Smart - or both! - to get that 'serviceable big' is mostly going to make the team worse overall.

This off-season might be the trickiest of the Brad Stevens era. That last step is the hardest, and the step before that is almost as hard.

You're going for it all, so adding more rookies looks counterproductive. They'd have to be pretty good to justify more personnel churn and more starting over with new players. One of Stevens' unsung strengths has been his ability to find minutes for his bench players and his rookies; but the time comes when you just get about the business of winning; and it's a rare rookie who helps you win the third and fourth rounds of the playoffs.

Tatum, Brown, and Smart are your core guys. They're all defensive leaders and are dedicated, which you need your top guys to be.

Hayward and Walker are older and have both had injury issues. Hayward's all-around game is needed next year, especially if Walker has a lot of down-time. He's sacrificed his scoring to provide whatever the team needs; maybe this is why his game is undervalued. His contract runs out when Giannis' does, just sayin.


'I was proud of Marcus Smart. He did a great job of keeping us together. He might not get credit for this game, but the pace that he played at, and his playcalling, some of the plays that he called were great. We obviously have to rely on him, so I’m definitely looking forward to Marcus leading this team in that role.' - Jaylen Brown, January 2021

Re: Who are you keeping: Smart or Hayward
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2020, 01:34:11 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Smart. With how defence and offensive traits such as extra passing are underrated he'll keep on signing bargain-value contracts with us.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA