Author Topic: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle  (Read 4292 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« on: October 17, 2018, 05:00:37 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7489
  • Tommy Points: 741
Aron Baynes started the third quarter in place of Hayward last night and it sounds like this was planned and will be the plan while Hayward is still on his minutes restriction.

I think this is a smart move by Stevens and maybe should continue even when Hayward is back 100%. I know there are posters here who think Baynes should be a full starter. I love this little shuffle as a way of keeping Hayward a starter helping ensure his rhythm and confidence but also coming out of halftime with a bigger, tougher lineup.

It's also a convenient way of staggering minutes for the top 5 and giving Hayward time to run some offense with the bench, against other benches.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 05:10:58 PM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
Many posters here have been advocating to use Hayward off the bench to ease his transition back and to have a scorer with the 2nd unit.  I'm guessing Stevens might be thinking the same.  He's starting him in the first quarter so not to disrespect him.  It makes a lot of sense.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2018, 05:38:03 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Does Moranis still think Baynes can't guard Embiid because he did well on him last night?

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2018, 05:40:11 PM »

Online hpantazo

  • Kevin McHale
  • ************************
  • Posts: 24882
  • Tommy Points: 2700
Does Moranis still think Baynes can't guard Embiid because he did well on him last night?

I was wondering about this. Baynes was great against him on both ends of the floor last night

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 05:41:21 PM »

Offline IDreamCeltics

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1401
  • Tommy Points: 140
Many posters here have been advocating to use Hayward off the bench to ease his transition back and to have a scorer with the 2nd unit.  I'm guessing Stevens might be thinking the same.  He's starting him in the first quarter so not to disrespect him.  It makes a lot of sense.

I'm not sure that's a good idea.  Hayward's scoring (and overall game) is pretty mediocre right now even when surrounded by the best players on the team.  I don't think you want him trying to carry the scoring load for any unit at the moment. 

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 05:45:12 PM »

Offline bknova

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1103
  • Tommy Points: 73
Aron Baynes started the third quarter in place of Hayward last night and it sounds like this was planned and will be the plan while Hayward is still on his minutes restriction.

I think this is a smart move by Stevens and maybe should continue even when Hayward is back 100%. I know there are posters here who think Baynes should be a full starter. I love this little shuffle as a way of keeping Hayward a starter helping ensure his rhythm and confidence but also coming out of halftime with a bigger, tougher lineup.

It's also a convenient way of staggering minutes for the top 5 and giving Hayward time to run some offense with the bench, against other benches.

Nothing to see here, the coach has already addressed it.  Stevens had mentioned earlier in the day that this will be the rotation while on the restriction to insure that Hayward has minutes to be on the floor at end of games.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2018, 06:28:16 PM »

Online rocknrollforyoursoul

  • Satch Sanders
  • *********
  • Posts: 9669
  • Tommy Points: 325
Darn it. I thought Baynes and Hayward had a new dance routine.
"There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, 'Thy will be done,' and those to whom God says, 'All right, then, have it your way.'"

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

— C.S. Lewis

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2018, 06:40:36 PM »

Offline Redz

  • Punner
  • Global Moderator
  • Bill Russell
  • ******************************
  • Posts: 30893
  • Tommy Points: 3765
  • Yup
Darn it. I thought Baynes and Hayward had a new dance routine.

Wait til Hayward is fully healed then he and Haynes can bust a move.
Yup

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2018, 06:40:45 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Darn it. I thought Baynes and Hayward had a new dance routine.
Lol, me too. Hopefully one day!
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2018, 06:27:15 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • NCE
  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20000
  • Tommy Points: 1323
Quote
I was wondering about this. Baynes was great against him on both ends of the floor last night

Me too, and I thought he was ok in the playoffs, too.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2018, 06:54:06 AM »

Offline Eddie20

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8497
  • Tommy Points: 975
It's not going to always be Baynes starting the 3Q and will be matchup dependent. Stevens said that and also added that this will continue for the next few weeks until Hayward's minutes restriction is lifted.

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2018, 08:42:33 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Does Moranis still think Baynes can't guard Embiid because he did well on him last night?

I was wondering about this. Baynes was great against him on both ends of the floor last night
21-14 C's when Baynes enters the game with 2:53 left in the 1st quarter, Sixers scored the next 7 points to end the quarter tied.  At 6:37 of the 2nd, Horford comes back in the C's are up 4, so the C's lost 3 points in 8 and a half minutes of Baynes in the first half.  C's ended the half up 5.  Baynes and Horford started the 2nd half together, when Baynes was pulled at 6:41, the C's were up 7 so they had extended the lead by 2.  Baynes came back in for the last 1:13 of the 3rd quarter and Boston went on a nice little run extending their lead by 5, which continued into the 4th quarter. 

So yeah, Boston played well overall late in the game with Baynes out there, but it took almost 3 full quarters for that to happen and Boston overall was better when Horford was guarding Embiid. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2018, 08:56:04 AM »

Offline smokeablount

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3103
  • Tommy Points: 628
  • Mark Blount often got smoked
Does Moranis still think Baynes can't guard Embiid because he did well on him last night?

I was wondering about this. Baynes was great against him on both ends of the floor last night
21-14 C's when Baynes enters the game with 2:53 left in the 1st quarter, Sixers scored the next 7 points to end the quarter tied.  At 6:37 of the 2nd, Horford comes back in the C's are up 4, so the C's lost 3 points in 8 and a half minutes of Baynes in the first half.  C's ended the half up 5.  Baynes and Horford started the 2nd half together, when Baynes was pulled at 6:41, the C's were up 7 so they had extended the lead by 2.  Baynes came back in for the last 1:13 of the 3rd quarter and Boston went on a nice little run extending their lead by 5, which continued into the 4th quarter. 

So yeah, Boston played well overall late in the game with Baynes out there, but it took almost 3 full quarters for that to happen and Boston overall was better when Horford was guarding Embiid.

Team scoring and individual defense aren’t the same thing, and Baynes did great regardless of how Horford did. Embiid 23 points on 21 shots between Baynes and Horford, that’s fantastic.

It’s amazing how esoteric your supporting metrics get as you dig yourself deeper.
2023 Non-Active / Non-NBA75 Fantasy Draft, ChiBulls:

PG: Deron Williams 07-08 / M.R. Richardson 80-81 / J. Wall 16-17
SG: David Thompson 77-78 / Hersey Hawkins 96-97
SF: Tracy McGrady 02-03 / Tayshaun Prince 06-07
PF: Larry Nance Sr 91-92 / Blake Griffin 13-14
C: Bob Lanier 76-77 / Brad Daugherty 92-93 / M. Camby 06-07

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2018, 09:11:37 AM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
Does Moranis still think Baynes can't guard Embiid because he did well on him last night?

I was wondering about this. Baynes was great against him on both ends of the floor last night
21-14 C's when Baynes enters the game with 2:53 left in the 1st quarter, Sixers scored the next 7 points to end the quarter tied.  At 6:37 of the 2nd, Horford comes back in the C's are up 4, so the C's lost 3 points in 8 and a half minutes of Baynes in the first half.  C's ended the half up 5.  Baynes and Horford started the 2nd half together, when Baynes was pulled at 6:41, the C's were up 7 so they had extended the lead by 2.  Baynes came back in for the last 1:13 of the 3rd quarter and Boston went on a nice little run extending their lead by 5, which continued into the 4th quarter. 

So yeah, Boston played well overall late in the game with Baynes out there, but it took almost 3 full quarters for that to happen and Boston overall was better when Horford was guarding Embiid.

Team scoring and individual defense aren’t the same thing, and Baynes did great regardless of how Horford did. Embiid 23 points on 21 shots between Baynes and Horford, that’s fantastic.

It’s amazing how esoteric your supporting metrics get as you dig yourself deeper.
Really something to behold. Such a strange take, especially in the face of disagreement from numerous people all with evidence to support their claim
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: The Hayward/Baynes Shuffle
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2018, 09:15:40 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Does Moranis still think Baynes can't guard Embiid because he did well on him last night?

I was wondering about this. Baynes was great against him on both ends of the floor last night
21-14 C's when Baynes enters the game with 2:53 left in the 1st quarter, Sixers scored the next 7 points to end the quarter tied.  At 6:37 of the 2nd, Horford comes back in the C's are up 4, so the C's lost 3 points in 8 and a half minutes of Baynes in the first half.  C's ended the half up 5.  Baynes and Horford started the 2nd half together, when Baynes was pulled at 6:41, the C's were up 7 so they had extended the lead by 2.  Baynes came back in for the last 1:13 of the 3rd quarter and Boston went on a nice little run extending their lead by 5, which continued into the 4th quarter. 

So yeah, Boston played well overall late in the game with Baynes out there, but it took almost 3 full quarters for that to happen and Boston overall was better when Horford was guarding Embiid.

Team scoring and individual defense aren’t the same thing, and Baynes did great regardless of how Horford did. Embiid 23 points on 21 shots between Baynes and Horford, that’s fantastic.

It’s amazing how esoteric your supporting metrics get as you dig yourself deeper.
But that has in fact been my argument, that Boston is better when Baynes isn't on the floor against Embiid, in a large part because of the lack of Baynes quickness and footspeed making it difficult for him to contain Embiid without double teams. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip