CelticsStrong
Beyond the Association => Other Basketball => Topic started by: stb on September 23, 2016, 11:42:22 AM
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http://radio.cbssports.com/2016/09/21/isiah-thomas-dream-team-politics/
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I wouldn't sweat it if I were him. It's not really a "dream team" anymore.
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I wouldn't sweat it if I were him. It's not really a "dream team" anymore.
Check the spelling, it's not our IT and it is the actual Dream Team.
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I wouldn't sweat it if I were him. It's not really a "dream team" anymore.
Check the spelling, it's not our IT and it is the actual Dream Team.
True. And he's correct.
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Sure it was. And if he wasn't petty & jealous of Jordan throughout his career, he probably would've been on that team.
Orchestrating that little walkout at the end of the '91 Eastern Conference Finals didn't help, either. For the most part, he has himself to blame.
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My first impression is politics probably played a role. Did the players/coaches not want Thomas, did the powers that be want a more diverse-looking team? Not that Stockton (or anybody else for that matter) is a bad pick, but surely Thomas would have been a better pick, right?
Thomas was definitely a bigger name at the time. Maybe Carmelo Anthony to Bird, Magic, and Michael's LeBron, Curry, and Kobe?
But if you look at the stats, Thomas hadn't been All-NBA since '87, while Stockton was All-NBA every year from '88 up to to '91 when they picked the team and he was also All-Defense in '91, something Thomas never was once. Utah had a better record than Detroit in '91. If you compare them just in '91, Stockton is better in just about every statistically category (both regular and advanced) other than rebounds. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Isiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isiah+Thomas&y1=1991&player_id1=thomais01&hint=John+Stockton&player_id2_select=John+Stockton&y2=1991&player_id2=stockjo01) Stockton led the league in assists and was 2nd in steals.
Also they're picking the team a year in advance (and Isiah was injured in '91 too). So how about the '92 stats/awards as that could help show if they made the right pick or not? Statistically, again it's not even close, with Stockton ahead in just about everything other than points. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Isiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isiah+Thomas&player_id1=thomais01&y1=1992&hint=John+Stockton&player_id2_select=John+Stockton&player_id2=stockjo01&y2=1992) And again, Stockton was both All-NBA and All-Defense, led the league in assists and steals, played on the team with the better record, while the only accolade Thomas had was being voted by the fans an All-Star starter.
Thomas was a bigger name for sure. But when you take a deeper look from a pure basketball stand point, I don't think there's anyway Thomas should have been on the team over Stockton or Magic or really anybody unless you want to argue Laettner.
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I wouldn't sweat it if I were him. It's not really a "dream team" anymore.
Check the spelling, it's not our IT and it is the actual Dream Team.
LOL. Oops. ;D
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Sure it was. And if he wasn't petty & jealous of Jordan throughout his career, he probably would've been on that team.
Orchestrating that little walkout at the end of the '91 Eastern Conference Finals didn't help, either. For the most part, he has himself to blame.
No question he should have been on that team.
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Bird could barely play. But he was on because it's Larry. Thomas was never Larry level but he was right below. He got ripped off.
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Bird could barely play. But he was on because it's Larry. Thomas was never Larry level but he was right below. He got ripped off.
You couldn't have a Dream Team without Larry, injury or not. Thomas was a great player, but he didn't do much to engender support. But yeah, he should've been there instead of Christian Laettner. =P
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My first impression is politics probably played a role. Did the players/coaches not want Thomas, did the powers that be want a more diverse-looking team? Not that Stockton (or anybody else for that matter) is a bad pick, but surely Thomas would have been a better pick, right?
Thomas was definitely a bigger name at the time. Maybe Carmelo Anthony to Bird, Magic, and Michael's LeBron, Curry, and Kobe?
But if you look at the stats, Thomas hadn't been All-NBA since '87, while Stockton was All-NBA every year from '88 up to to '91 when they picked the team and he was also All-Defense in '91, something Thomas never was once. Utah had a better record than Detroit in '91. If you compare them just in '91, Stockton is better in just about every statistically category (both regular and advanced) other than rebounds. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Isiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isiah+Thomas&y1=1991&player_id1=thomais01&hint=John+Stockton&player_id2_select=John+Stockton&y2=1991&player_id2=stockjo01) Stockton led the league in assists and was 2nd in steals.
Also they're picking the team a year in advance (and Isiah was injured in '91 too). So how about the '92 stats/awards as that could help show if they made the right pick or not? Statistically, again it's not even close, with Stockton ahead in just about everything other than points. (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&hint=Isiah+Thomas&player_id1_select=Isiah+Thomas&player_id1=thomais01&y1=1992&hint=John+Stockton&player_id2_select=John+Stockton&player_id2=stockjo01&y2=1992) And again, Stockton was both All-NBA and All-Defense, led the league in assists and steals, played on the team with the better record, while the only accolade Thomas had was being voted by the fans an All-Star starter.
Thomas was a bigger name for sure. But when you take a deeper look from a pure basketball stand point, I don't think there's anyway Thomas should have been on the team over Stockton or Magic or really anybody unless you want to argue Laettner.
Isiah Thomas was not on the Dream Team because everybody on that team hated Isiah Thomas, and they all hated Isiah Thomas because he was a blankety-blank.
There are rumors that Jordan would not have played if Thomas was on the national team. Also, Chuck Daly (Thomas's coach) was the HC of the Dream Team, which should have put the managerial politics in Thomas's favor, if anything.
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Sure it was. And if he wasn't petty & jealous of Jordan throughout his career, he probably would've been on that team.
Orchestrating that little walkout at the end of the '91 Eastern Conference Finals didn't help, either. For the most part, he has himself to blame.
Fully agree. As a player, he deserved to make it. As a person, everyone seemed to hate him.
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Isiah Thomas was not on the Dream Team because everybody on that team hated Isiah Thomas, and they all hated Isiah Thomas because he was a blankety-blank.
There are rumors that Jordan would not have played if Thomas was on the national team. Also, Chuck Daly (Thomas's coach) was the HC of the Dream Team, which should have put the managerial politics in Thomas's favor, if anything.
This is exactly it. There is no Dream Team if Thomas is on it. Rumor was that Jordan, Bird and perhaps a couple of others would not play with him. We've heard the rumors about Jordan. Bird really disliked Isiah after the "he'd just be another player if he were black" comment. Pippen flat out said he didn't want Thomas on the team. Thomas was an ass and in a somewhat close decision between him and Stockton, they took the guy who was easier to get along with.
As far as him deserving it, Stockton was clearly the better player in the couple of seasons leading up to the selection. Thomas was a 18/7 guy who as a defensive liability. Stockton was a 17/14!!! player who was better defensively. Who would you reasonably take? Which is why I said the race was somewhat close. Thomas had a better history. Stockton was a better player. When you add in personalities, it really wasn't a difficult decision.
Some people point to the selection of Bird that the team didn't get the absolute best players. Bird, due to his otherworldly status and his friendship with Magic was granted kind of a "Professor Emeritus" role. Of course, he was still averaging 20/10 at the time and was still a better player than Thomas.
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Isiah Thomas was not on the Dream Team because everybody on that team hated Isiah Thomas, and they all hated Isiah Thomas because he was a blankety-blank.
There are rumors that Jordan would not have played if Thomas was on the national team. Also, Chuck Daly (Thomas's coach) was the HC of the Dream Team, which should have put the managerial politics in Thomas's favor, if anything.
This is exactly it. There is no Dream Team if Thomas is on it. Rumor was that Jordan, Bird and perhaps a couple of others would not play with him. We've heard the rumors about Jordan. Bird really disliked Isiah after the "he'd just be another player if he were black" comment. Pippen flat out said he didn't want Thomas on the team. Thomas was an ass and in a somewhat close decision between him and Stockton, they took the guy who was easier to get along with.
As far as him deserving it, Stockton was clearly the better player in the couple of seasons leading up to the selection. Thomas was a 18/7 guy who as a defensive liability. Stockton was a 17/14!!! player who was better defensively. Who would you reasonably take? Which is why I said the race was somewhat close. Thomas had a better history. Stockton was a better player. When you add in personalities, it really wasn't a difficult decision.
Some people point to the selection of Bird that the team didn't get the absolute best players. Bird, due to his otherworldly status and his friendship with Magic was granted kind of a "Professor Emeritus" role. Of course, he was still averaging 20/10 at the time and was still a better player than Thomas.
I feel like Stockton was/is often underappreciated. Wasn't he the all-time leader in assists AND steals when he retired? And a decent scorer to boot. Thomas was a very good player, but I think Stockton was better.
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Isiah Thomas was/is a jerk. John Stockton is an all time great player.
The only one who should be upset at not being selected to the Dream Team is Shaquille O'Neal. Could you imagine that man-child blocking, outrunning and dunking all over the world??? Terrifying!
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Isiah Thomas was not on the Dream Team because everybody on that team hated Isiah Thomas, and they all hated Isiah Thomas because he was a blankety-blank.
There are rumors that Jordan would not have played if Thomas was on the national team. Also, Chuck Daly (Thomas's coach) was the HC of the Dream Team, which should have put the managerial politics in Thomas's favor, if anything.
This is exactly it. There is no Dream Team if Thomas is on it. Rumor was that Jordan, Bird and perhaps a couple of others would not play with him. We've heard the rumors about Jordan. Bird really disliked Isiah after the "he'd just be another player if he were black" comment. Pippen flat out said he didn't want Thomas on the team. Thomas was an ass and in a somewhat close decision between him and Stockton, they took the guy who was easier to get along with.
As far as him deserving it, Stockton was clearly the better player in the couple of seasons leading up to the selection. Thomas was a 18/7 guy who as a defensive liability. Stockton was a 17/14!!! player who was better defensively. Who would you reasonably take? Which is why I said the race was somewhat close. Thomas had a better history. Stockton was a better player. When you add in personalities, it really wasn't a difficult decision.
Some people point to the selection of Bird that the team didn't get the absolute best players. Bird, due to his otherworldly status and his friendship with Magic was granted kind of a "Professor Emeritus" role. Of course, he was still averaging 20/10 at the time and was still a better player than Thomas.
I feel like Stockton was/is often underappreciated. Wasn't he the all-time leader in assists AND steals when he retired? And a decent scorer to boot. Thomas was a very good player, but I think Stockton was better.
In that period Stockton was better, for sure. And he was FAR better for that team, where there was no shortage of scorers.
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In hindsight Stockton should be on the team. He was a better player by that point in time and a better fit. He was an excellent player but it still felt wrong at the time because Thomas was a legend who won championships, was MVP of a couple all star games, etc. If Jordan didn't mind having him on the team I'm sure he would have been on it based on his career accomplishments.
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Isiah Thomas was not on the Dream Team because everybody on that team hated Isiah Thomas, and they all hated Isiah Thomas because he was a blankety-blank.
There are rumors that Jordan would not have played if Thomas was on the national team. Also, Chuck Daly (Thomas's coach) was the HC of the Dream Team, which should have put the managerial politics in Thomas's favor, if anything.
This is exactly it. There is no Dream Team if Thomas is on it. Rumor was that Jordan, Bird and perhaps a couple of others would not play with him. We've heard the rumors about Jordan. Bird really disliked Isiah after the "he'd just be another player if he were black" comment. Pippen flat out said he didn't want Thomas on the team. Thomas was an ass and in a somewhat close decision between him and Stockton, they took the guy who was easier to get along with.
I think Magic also didn`t want him because of his reaction when Magic announced he was HIV positive