Celtics shopping the #3 pick aggressively

[footey]

I don't.

It's obvious the pick's greatest value to the Celtics is in a trade.

Now, where that trade goes is anyone's guess. I have no doubt Ainge will kick the tires on the Kevin Love fire sale that's coming, on Okafor and on other deals we have no idea about.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

You have this fantasy that with a trade here or there, we are going to be champions again. That is not going to happen. Sometimes you have to be patient in rebuilding a team. This is not the same as 2007, when our best player (by far) was in the back 9 of his career, and threatening to be traded if we didn't hurry up and do something.  We caught lightening in a bottle, a lot of luck was involved.

I am content to take our time to rebuild this team the best way, one player at a time.  We may not compete for the championship realistically for another 2-3 years, and I am fine with that. The impatience of some bloggers just boggles my mind. Life doesn't work that way. It is as if they think that since we are the Celtics, anything other than winning the championship is a total disgrace.

[mef730]

Given the top-heavy draft, I've gotta think that any trade will be consummated only after LA picks #2. The delta between #3 with Ingram/Simmons available versus #3 without I/S available is huge. Right now, most teams, if not all teams, are valuing that pick as a no I/S situation.

Mike

[PhoSita]

It seems likely to me that trading the pick for whoever is available is more likely to help the team win games the next couple years.

I am less confident that trading the pick is likely to do more to improve the team long term.

[vjcsmoke]

Really?  A poor man's Jeff Green (who can't shoot) or the next Porzingis?  Hmm, let me think that over.

At 3, Brown would be a HUGE reach.  I'd be ok with Brown between 6-8.  He seems to be equivalent to Justise Winslow offensively - can't shoot from mid-range or deep, really needs to develop a jumpshot.

Doesn't have the elite defense of Winslow, Crowder or Smart though.  But is "projectable" to a plus defender if he trains properly and takes advantage of his athletic gifts.

Bender meanwhile has incredible length, agility, and lateral quickness that can't be taught.  He's also "projectable" to be an elite defender who could guard the 3-5 positions, and switch without losing out much even on guards.  A possibly elite 7'1 defender > a possibly elite 6'7 defender.

On top of that Bender can actually shoot the deep ball, 36% in his first professional season, and has a shooting form that takes advantage of his height.  It's gonna be really tough to block his shots.

Bender has a higher ceiling than Brown, every day, all day.

That being said, I prefer to trade the #3 in a package for a proven star, as long as it's not a 60 year old Carmelo Anthony.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

[CoachBo]

I don't.

It's obvious the pick's greatest value to the Celtics is in a trade.

Now, where that trade goes is anyone's guess. I have no doubt Ainge will kick the tires on the Kevin Love fire sale that's coming, on Okafor and on other deals we have no idea about.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

You have this fantasy that with a trade here or there, we are going to be champions again. That is not going to happen. Sometimes you have to be patient in rebuilding a team. This is not the same as 2007, when our best player (by far) was in the back 9 of his career, and threatening to be traded if we didn't hurry up and do something.  We caught lightening in a bottle, a lot of luck was involved.

I am content to take our time to rebuild this team the best way, one player at a time.  We may not compete for the championship realistically for another 2-3 years, and I am fine with that. The impatience of some bloggers just boggles my mind. Life doesn't work that way. It is as if they think that since we are the Celtics, anything other than winning the championship is a total disgrace.

News flash: Danny Ainge, and his mediocre draft record, is still the general manager. Now that the "Rondo is better than Cousy" myth has finally been retired on this board, one wonders when the growing body of evidence will finally bury the "Danny Ainge: Draft savant" nonsense.

The bizarre fascination of some here with the draft, despite our repeated failures to markedly improve our team with it, amazes me, as does the acceptance of mediocrity here - so much so that some of us chat off line on the message function about it.

[aingeforthree]

I don't.

It's obvious the pick's greatest value to the Celtics is in a trade.

Now, where that trade goes is anyone's guess. I have no doubt Ainge will kick the tires on the Kevin Love fire sale that's coming, on Okafor and on other deals we have no idea about.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

You have this fantasy that with a trade here or there, we are going to be champions again. That is not going to happen. Sometimes you have to be patient in rebuilding a team. This is not the same as 2007, when our best player (by far) was in the back 9 of his career, and threatening to be traded if we didn't hurry up and do something.  We caught lightening in a bottle, a lot of luck was involved.

I am content to take our time to rebuild this team the best way, one player at a time.  We may not compete for the championship realistically for another 2-3 years, and I am fine with that. The impatience of some bloggers just boggles my mind. Life doesn't work that way. It is as if they think that since we are the Celtics, anything other than winning the championship is a total disgrace.

News flash: Danny Ainge, and his mediocre draft record, is still the general manager.

The bizarre fascination of some here with the draft, despite our repeated failures to markedly improve our team with it, amazes me, as does the acceptance of mediocrity here - so much so that some of us chat off line on the message function about it.

Nothing mediocre about how this GM has set up this franchise.

[saltlover]

Really?  A poor man's Jeff Green (who can't shoot) or the next Porzingis?  Hmm, let me think that over.

At 3, Brown would be a HUGE reach.  I'd be ok with Brown between 6-8.  He seems to be equivalent to Justise Winslow offensively - can't shoot from mid-range or deep, really needs to develop a jumpshot.

Doesn't have the elite defense of Winslow, Crowder or Smart though.  But is "projectable" to a plus defender if he trains properly and takes advantage of his athletic gifts.

Bender meanwhile has incredible length, agility, and lateral quickness that can't be taught.  He's also "projectable" to be an elite defender who could guard the 3-5 positions, and switch without losing out much even on guards.  A possibly elite 7'1 defender > a possibly elite 6'7 defender.

On top of that Bender can actually shoot the deep ball, 36% in his first professional season, and has a shooting form that takes advantage of his height.  It's gonna be really tough to block his shots.

Bender has a higher ceiling than Brown, every day, all day.

That being said, I prefer to trade the #3 in a package for a proven star, as long as it's not a 60 year old Carmelo Anthony.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

Where are you getting the idea that Jaylen Brown is anything like Jeff Green?  One of the big knocks on Brown is that he's too aggressive on offense and forces some bad shots.  Aggressive on offense is not something that remotely resembles Jeff Green.  Brown, physically, is also has a much thicker build than Green.

I think of Brown as much more comparable to Josh Smith. Theoretically Brown is a smart player with good BBIQ.  If that's true, I'd be pretty interested in someone who could be a smarter Josh Smith.

[PaulP34]

Really?  A poor man's Jeff Green (who can't shoot) or the next Porzingis?  Hmm, let me think that over.

At 3, Brown would be a HUGE reach.  I'd be ok with Brown between 6-8.  He seems to be equivalent to Justise Winslow offensively - can't shoot from mid-range or deep, really needs to develop a jumpshot.

Doesn't have the elite defense of Winslow, Crowder or Smart though.  But is "projectable" to a plus defender if he trains properly and takes advantage of his athletic gifts.

Bender meanwhile has incredible length, agility, and lateral quickness that can't be taught.  He's also "projectable" to be an elite defender who could guard the 3-5 positions, and switch without losing out much even on guards.  A possibly elite 7'1 defender > a possibly elite 6'7 defender.

On top of that Bender can actually shoot the deep ball, 36% in his first professional season, and has a shooting form that takes advantage of his height.  It's gonna be really tough to block his shots.

Bender has a higher ceiling than Brown, every day, all day.

That being said, I prefer to trade the #3 in a package for a proven star, as long as it's not a 60 year old Carmelo Anthony.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

I like the sound of a Dragan Bender if he pans out to be that player we think he'll be. But I'm worried about his frailness. He is going to get bullied in the paint buy bigger players like Okafor, Whiteside, Cousins, Drumund and even Kevin Love. I don't see Bender as a true Big unless he fills out. I can imagine him being injury prone. He just seems frail to me. Jaylen Brown is that scrappy type player Danny likes. He can play defense and attack the rim. I would be happy either way though. Bender or Brown. I think either one will be an asset to us somewhere down the road. Even without the great shooting I have Jaylen Brown slightly above Bender just out of toughness.

[elcotte]

I don't.

It's obvious the pick's greatest value to the Celtics is in a trade.

Now, where that trade goes is anyone's guess. I have no doubt Ainge will kick the tires on the Kevin Love fire sale that's coming, on Okafor and on other deals we have no idea about.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

You have this fantasy that with a trade here or there, we are going to be champions again. That is not going to happen. Sometimes you have to be patient in rebuilding a team. This is not the same as 2007, when our best player (by far) was in the back 9 of his career, and threatening to be traded if we didn't hurry up and do something.  We caught lightening in a bottle, a lot of luck was involved.

I am content to take our time to rebuild this team the best way, one player at a time.  We may not compete for the championship realistically for another 2-3 years, and I am fine with that. The impatience of some bloggers just boggles my mind. Life doesn't work that way. It is as if they think that since we are the Celtics, anything other than winning the championship is a total disgrace.

News flash: Danny Ainge, and his mediocre draft record, is still the general manager. Now that the "Rondo is better than Cousy" myth has finally been retired on this board, one wonders when the growing body of evidence will finally bury the "Danny Ainge: Draft savant" nonsense.

The bizarre fascination of some here with the draft, despite our repeated failures to markedly improve our team with it, amazes me, as does the acceptance of mediocrity here - so much so that some of us chat off line on the message function about it.

Newsflash: critics have the easiest job in the world as they pontificate without putting themselves on the line with their own ideas.
Newsflash: Ainge has more championships than you do.
Newsflash: The value of the pick is not the greatest in a trade unless it is a good trade that nets the Celtics a better player than the draft would.
Newsflash: There are plenty of people on this board that understand the risks and rewards of building through the draft.
Newsflash: I don't believe you are a 'draft savant' either.

[Sixth Man]

I don't.

It's obvious the pick's greatest value to the Celtics is in a trade.

Now, where that trade goes is anyone's guess. I have no doubt Ainge will kick the tires on the Kevin Love fire sale that's coming, on Okafor and on other deals we have no idea about.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

You have this fantasy that with a trade here or there, we are going to be champions again. That is not going to happen. Sometimes you have to be patient in rebuilding a team. This is not the same as 2007, when our best player (by far) was in the back 9 of his career, and threatening to be traded if we didn't hurry up and do something.  We caught lightening in a bottle, a lot of luck was involved.

I am content to take our time to rebuild this team the best way, one player at a time.  We may not compete for the championship realistically for another 2-3 years, and I am fine with that. The impatience of some bloggers just boggles my mind. Life doesn't work that way. It is as if they think that since we are the Celtics, anything other than winning the championship is a total disgrace.

News flash: Danny Ainge, and his mediocre draft record, is still the general manager. Now that the "Rondo is better than Cousy" myth has finally been retired on this board, one wonders when the growing body of evidence will finally bury the "Danny Ainge: Draft savant" nonsense.

The bizarre fascination of some here with the draft, despite our repeated failures to markedly improve our team with it, amazes me, as does the acceptance of mediocrity here - so much so that some of us chat off line on the message function about it.

Sigh, you seem like another victim of our society's "instant gratification" culture.  Maybe most of us here simply appreciate the hard work and intelligence needed to rebuild a roster over time, as opposed to pining for the quick fix that never seems to arrive (except for that one glorious instance in 2007).  Teams that enjoy sustained success over a period of time, such as the Warriors, Spurs, Thunder, etc. have been built, brick by brick, with each individual piece carefully selected.  On the other hand, you have rosters like the Cavs, a hodge-podge of talented players who fit together rather poorly, at  cost to the long-term prospects of that franchise.  Look at the trade for Kevin Love in which they squandered a #1 overall pick for a guy who doesn't have a real role on offense and rarely attempts to play one-on-one or team defense.

Danny will take his time and make moves according to not only his mental timetable, but what is available for the right price and for the right fit.  The Way is The Answer. 

Please feel free to discuss and ridicule this post in chat mode to your heart's desire! 

[hwangjini_1]

I don't.

It's obvious the pick's greatest value to the Celtics is in a trade.

Now, where that trade goes is anyone's guess. I have no doubt Ainge will kick the tires on the Kevin Love fire sale that's coming, on Okafor and on other deals we have no idea about.

I am totally meh drafting another non-shooter in Jaylen Brown. But that's better than Bender - about 100 times.

The draft isn't going to provide this team a lot of help. A trade could. The pick most assuredly should be shopped first.

Ergo, the report by Clark is a good one. Just because the draftniks don't like it is no reason to bash the messenger.

You have this fantasy that with a trade here or there, we are going to be champions again. That is not going to happen. Sometimes you have to be patient in rebuilding a team. This is not the same as 2007, when our best player (by far) was in the back 9 of his career, and threatening to be traded if we didn't hurry up and do something.  We caught lightening in a bottle, a lot of luck was involved.

I am content to take our time to rebuild this team the best way, one player at a time.  We may not compete for the championship realistically for another 2-3 years, and I am fine with that. The impatience of some bloggers just boggles my mind. Life doesn't work that way. It is as if they think that since we are the Celtics, anything other than winning the championship is a total disgrace.

News flash: Danny Ainge, and his mediocre draft record, is still the general manager. Now that the "Rondo is better than Cousy" myth has finally been retired on this board, one wonders when the growing body of evidence will finally bury the "Danny Ainge: Draft savant" nonsense.

The bizarre fascination of some here with the draft, despite our repeated failures to markedly improve our team with it, amazes me, as does the acceptance of mediocrity here - so much so that some of us chat off line on the message function about it.

you havent been on this board that long cbo, so i am assuming your statements flow from not being party to earlier debates on the draft and ainge. this topic was argued at great length a number of times and some of the key points that emerged are below.

first, using 20/20 hindsight ("he missed these great guys") as the basis for assessing drafting ability in GMs leads us all to believe that no GM in history was worth a [dang]. when we looked at san antonio's draft record by viewing their misses, their GM looked like a idiot. year after year SA would pass on a future star and select a lesser player.  please keep in mind that all GMs with any length of time in their position have a history of significant misses.

rather, it is more revealing to look at the number/percentage of great/good/bench players taken by a GM based upon the picks' location in the draft, and, compare that to the nba league average for success at that draft location.

for example, only about 25% of all players picked in the bottom third of the draft (the 20s) make as credible nba players. if a GM "only" hits on one out of four of his picks in the 20s, he isnt an idiot, he is average.

judging a GM's drafting ability, ainge included, is best done within a comparative context and one that reflects both the drafting positions available and the league averages.

here at cb we did all this and the general conclusion was that ainge is a better drafter than most other GMs....given the draft location he chose, the players he picked, and the performance of his peers.

[LarBrd33]

This isn't a coincidence.  Lots of intentional leaks and posturing this time of year.  These teams are definitely talking with each other.

[The Rondo Show]

This isn't a coincidence.  Lots of intentional leaks and posturing this time of year.  These teams are definitely talking with each other.

As much as I want this to happen, I feel like these big trade connections reported for months never actually happen. Can you think of an example where everyone knew a trade would happen and then it actually went through?

[LarBrd33]

This isn't a coincidence.  Lots of intentional leaks and posturing this time of year.  These teams are definitely talking with each other.

As much as I want this to happen, I feel like these big trade connections reported for months never actually happen. Can you think of an example where everyone knew a trade would happen and then it actually went through?

Not exactly the same situation, but everyone knew the wiggins/love thing was going to happen despite posturing. 

I still think Boston can't make this deal until they see if Simmons and Ingram definitely go 1 and 2... but I'll be bracing myself for a podium trade announcement on draft night.. whether that's for a guy like Okafor, an overpay for Ricky Butler, or some other deal.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a deal go down that we've already heard rumored.

[greece66]

I would consider giving up the pick in two circumstances: Okafor (or another established young player) for the pick alone; a trade that involves Boogie. And even in these situations, I would give it much thought before agreeing.

I would not give up the pick for Butler as we will also have to give up a couple of good players + such a trade not move the needle much.

I would also trade the pick in the unlikely scenario KD came and we had to immediately add talent to build a contender.

Overall, given that this draft class has more depth than originally anticipated, I start thinking that keeping the pick is not a terrible idea.