After A Lose To The Grizzles, It Only Shows That Coach Doc Rivers Is The Problem

[raynman]

How stupid can Fab Melo be to not get Doc's system til now? Small ball doesn't work on every team.. We need to develop Melo and White because we will need size come playoff time!

[nickagneta]

Development of players is a long term thing.

Melo is being developed as well as Sullinger. Why? Because they have long term upside and potential to grow.

The only thing White and Randolph have is health and what they are. They are having problems picking up the system and are not players that can develop any farther along than they already are.

They are end of the bench retreads picked up off the foreign ball/D League scraps and don't deserve playing time except for garbage time.

Doc is doing the right thing.

And as for the screaming about small ball. Enough already.

The whole league has gone to small ball. Most of the very best teams employ small ball. Doc isn't married to small ball. He was all about traditional lineups when the league was about traditional lineups. Also, he can only play the type of ball that his players allow him to play. This team's best players are not big(except KG). Trying to play traditional lineup basketball with this group would mean having to give significant time to the team's absolutely worst players. That's just dumb and would get Doc fired in about a half second when the team is losing by 20 points each night because of such a move.

[clover]

Development of players is a long term thing.

Melo is being developed as well as Sullinger. Why? Because they have long term upside and potential to grow.

The only thing White and Randolph have is health and what they are. They are having problems picking up the system and are not players that can develop any farther along than they already are.

They are end of the bench retreads picked up off the foreign ball/D League scraps and don't deserve playing time except for garbage time.

Doc is doing the right thing.

And as for the screaming about small ball. Enough already.

The whole league has gone to small ball. Most of the very best teams employ small ball. Doc isn't married to small ball. He was all about traditional lineups when the league was about traditional lineups. Also, he can only play the type of ball that his players allow him to play. This team's best players are not big(except KG). Trying to play traditional lineup basketball with this group would mean having to give significant time to the team's absolutely worst players. That's just dumb and would get Doc fired in about a half second when the team is losing by 20 points each night because of such a move.

Actually White and Randolph have each had about two full team practices now, and Doc has said they get what the team is doing.

No need to slur them when they're dropped into the team late season from China.

[nickagneta]

Actually White and Randolph have each had about two full team practices now, and Doc has said they get what the team is doing.

Mind providing a link to this as I have read no such thing and when I have seen them play, they didn't look like they were getting it and were being told by vets where to be at times between plays.

[kgainez]

Yes, the problem is very clearly Doc.

The problem has nothing at all to do with the fact that we have Rajon Rondo, Jared Sullinger, Kevin Garnett and Courtney Lee on the injured list.

Nothing at all... 

Also, Bosa.

I think it's just silly to disregard that 2 of our 4 losses (Mia and Memphis) last night were in our reach and some coaching decisions could've guaranteed a win.
Oh and also the Hornets.

Did we fumble away these games. Yes.
But when the players do so, it's the coaches job to give us a chance.
Paul Pierce iso's, and going with the same unit that lost the game and not brought us back is not giving us a chance.
Sorry.

[clover]

This thread makes me nostalgic for the days when Doc was an idiot for refusing to play Shelden Williams and Paddy O'Bryant more.

Remember when 3J was part of our next generation nucleus?

Still, that doesn't mean that White and Randolph couldn't contribute as much in longer minutes as they have in short minutes.

[kgainez]

The way I make 'excuses' for Jeff Green is the same way some of yall make excuses for Doc Rivers.

 

Not sure how we can be down 2-4pts on a team with a minute or so to go and the greatest coach in the world (or a top 3 coach) can't even call a play to tie the game. But it's a PP iso...every single time.

You all know that PP has only hit 2/11 clutch shots this year right?

[Celtics4ever]

W/o KG we are not that good, period. Doesn't matter who the coach is it could be Phil or Red and we'd still lose.

[Donoghus]

W/o KG we are not that good, period. Doesn't matter who the coach is it could be Phil or Red and we'd still lose.

Not too mention no Rondo, no Sullinger, no Barbosa, plus wildly inconsistent play by veteran guys like Terry, Lee, Bass, and Green.

That's not too much on the coach, it's about not having the horses or guys playing to their capabilities on a nightly basis right now.

Agreed.  I'm not sure what coach out there, living or dead, that could get the job done.

[Tr1boy]

W/o KG we are not that good, period. Doesn't matter who the coach is it could be Phil or Red and we'd still lose.

Not too mention no Rondo, no Sullinger, no Barbosa, plus wildly inconsistent play by veteran guys like Terry, Lee, Bass, and Green.

That's not too much on the coach, it's about not having the horses or guys playing to their capabilities on a nightly basis right now.

Agreed.  I'm not sure what coach out there, living or dead, that could get the job done.

While i an agree with you about the loses of Rondo, Sully, Barb , i can't agree with the inconsistent plays of the bench.

Green = 10-15 points, 4-5 rbs, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 block shots, is about as much you can expect of him. And he has been doing this for a long while now. That 43 pt game has to be overlooked

Terry = Again, sort of the same thing. Scoring 9 to 12 pts a game. Scoring clutch shots late in the game. For the most part he has been doing what he was suppose to do.

Bass = 6-10 points, 5 rebounds, flexibility on defense. And he is only starting bc Sully is out and we got nobody else better.

Lee = 8-12 pts, a few assists, a few steals. Playing solid Defense.

The bench has been inconsistent here and there, but for the most part, they been doing their job. We have to also put blame on guys like AB. While performing well defensively, his offense can be only considered shaky, starter or bench player. Shooting 3 for 9, 2 for 10 in alot of his games. He needs to go back to cutting to the basket and i don't know if its bc of recovering from injury or he is scared to get injured again, but he has completely stopped doing it.

There is no post presence, no inside activity of any kind it seems. So teams have got an easy scouting report on us. Just basically do everything else but worry about defending on the inside. Even for rebounds , they will shoot and run back on D, so don't worry. On the offensive end, if you got even one guy that can do some damage on the inside and can outplay KG due to youth, we might as well throw in the towel. Brandan Wright and Randolph as examples.

We are a team running on three wheels right now. If we win 4 to 5 more games and lock up a playoff spot, i would just rest KG and PP for the playoffs. Maybe not so obvious to get fined, but one player takes turns. In the end the most important thing i feel is to beat Miami. It doesn't matter if we meet them in the 1st or ECF

[nickagneta]

W/o KG we are not that good, period. Doesn't matter who the coach is it could be Phil or Red and we'd still lose.

Not too mention no Rondo, no Sullinger, no Barbosa, plus wildly inconsistent play by veteran guys like Terry, Lee, Bass, and Green.

That's not too much on the coach, it's about not having the horses or guys playing to their capabilities on a nightly basis right now.

Agreed.  I'm not sure what coach out there, living or dead, that could get the job done.

While i an agree with you about the loses of Rondo, Sully, Barb , i can't agree with the inconsistent plays of the bench.

Green = 10-15 points, 4-5 rbs, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 block shots, is about as much you can expect of him. And he has been doing this for a long while now. That 43 pt game has to be overlooked

Terry = Again, sort of the same thing. Scoring 9 to 12 pts a game. Scoring clutch shots late in the game. For the most part he has been doing what he was suppose to do.

Bass = 6-10 points, 5 rebounds, flexibility on defense. And he is only starting bc Sully is out and we got nobody else better.

Lee = 8-12 pts, a few assists, a few steals. Playing solid Defense.

The bench has been inconsistent here and there, but for the most part, they been doing their job. We have to also put blame on guys like AB. While performing well defensively, his offense can be only considered shaky, starter or bench player. Shooting 3 for 9, 2 for 10 in alot of his games. He needs to go back to cutting to the basket and i don't know if its bc of recovering from injury or he is scared to get injured again, but he has completely stopped doing it.

There is no post presence, no inside activity of any kind it seems. So teams have got an easy scouting report on us. Just basically do everything else but worry about defending on the inside. Even for rebounds , they will shoot and run back on D, so don't worry. On the offensive end, if you got even one guy that can do some damage on the inside and can outplay KG due to youth, we might as well throw in the towel. Brandan Wright and Randolph as examples.

We are a team running on three wheels right now. If we win 4 to 5 more games and lock up a playoff spot, i would just rest KG and PP for the playoffs. Maybe not so obvious to get fined, but one player takes turns. In the end the most important thing i feel is to beat Miami. It doesn't matter if we meet them in the 1st or ECF

Couple things here:

The bench players you listed all played poorly for almost the first 2-3 months of this season. Their defense was poor and the scoring and shooting not very good.

The stats you listed for the bench players listed were decent over estimated numbers of what they have been putting up since having to play a more significant role with more minutes. Their numbers for the first half of this year were no where near the numbers you listed and the overall yearly numbers are a good percentage lower than your listed averages.

Also, is it really fair to then sight stats on Avery Bradley in a negative manner in the same way you overstate the bench players? Avery Bradley is not a 20-33% shooter. You are cherry picking and understating here as much as you did in overstating the bench players overall performances.

I agreed about our inside presence but that's more on Danny not giving Doc any of those type players to play for most of this year.

[kgainez]

W/o KG we are not that good, period. Doesn't matter who the coach is it could be Phil or Red and we'd still lose.

Not too mention no Rondo, no Sullinger, no Barbosa, plus wildly inconsistent play by veteran guys like Terry, Lee, Bass, and Green.

That's not too much on the coach, it's about not having the horses or guys playing to their capabilities on a nightly basis right now.

Agreed.  I'm not sure what coach out there, living or dead, that could get the job done.

I agreed about our inside presence but that's more on Danny not giving Doc any of those type players to play for most of this year.

what, man?

Danny gave us Darko -- who got dogged after he made one mistake and never played AGAIN! And if ure not playing me, ure darn straight i'm leaving to go to Europe. But if I am actually a contributor...I stay and do my job and hope for the best.

Danny drafted Sullinger. It was a risk. And sully was a great producer, but the injury was unfortunate.

So Danny had to do something since BASS was underperforming

So he find you two guys from China, both who were former NBA players. Several times now, they've produced decent numbers in garbage time, but have yet to get any real playing time.

I have no issues with Danny Ainge. You CANNOT be mad at Danny because of the decisions of Doc.

[Tr1boy]

W/o KG we are not that good, period. Doesn't matter who the coach is it could be Phil or Red and we'd still lose.

Not too mention no Rondo, no Sullinger, no Barbosa, plus wildly inconsistent play by veteran guys like Terry, Lee, Bass, and Green.

That's not too much on the coach, it's about not having the horses or guys playing to their capabilities on a nightly basis right now.

Agreed.  I'm not sure what coach out there, living or dead, that could get the job done.

While i an agree with you about the loses of Rondo, Sully, Barb , i can't agree with the inconsistent plays of the bench.

Green = 10-15 points, 4-5 rbs, 2 assists, 2 steals, 2 block shots, is about as much you can expect of him. And he has been doing this for a long while now. That 43 pt game has to be overlooked

Terry = Again, sort of the same thing. Scoring 9 to 12 pts a game. Scoring clutch shots late in the game. For the most part he has been doing what he was suppose to do.

Bass = 6-10 points, 5 rebounds, flexibility on defense. And he is only starting bc Sully is out and we got nobody else better.

Lee = 8-12 pts, a few assists, a few steals. Playing solid Defense.

The bench has been inconsistent here and there, but for the most part, they been doing their job. We have to also put blame on guys like AB. While performing well defensively, his offense can be only considered shaky, starter or bench player. Shooting 3 for 9, 2 for 10 in alot of his games. He needs to go back to cutting to the basket and i don't know if its bc of recovering from injury or he is scared to get injured again, but he has completely stopped doing it.

There is no post presence, no inside activity of any kind it seems. So teams have got an easy scouting report on us. Just basically do everything else but worry about defending on the inside. Even for rebounds , they will shoot and run back on D, so don't worry. On the offensive end, if you got even one guy that can do some damage on the inside and can outplay KG due to youth, we might as well throw in the towel. Brandan Wright and Randolph as examples.

We are a team running on three wheels right now. If we win 4 to 5 more games and lock up a playoff spot, i would just rest KG and PP for the playoffs. Maybe not so obvious to get fined, but one player takes turns. In the end the most important thing i feel is to beat Miami. It doesn't matter if we meet them in the 1st or ECF

Couple things here:

The bench players you listed all played poorly for almost the first 2-3 months of this season. Their defense was poor and the scoring and shooting not very good.

The stats you listed for the bench players listed were decent over estimated numbers of what they have been putting up since having to play a more significant role with more minutes. Their numbers for the first half of this year were no where near the numbers you listed and the overall yearly numbers are a good percentage lower than your listed averages.

Also, is it really fair to then sight stats on Avery Bradley in a negative manner in the same way you overstate the bench players? Avery Bradley is not a 20-33% shooter. You are cherry picking and understating here as much as you did in overstating the bench players overall performances.

I agreed about our inside presence but that's more on Danny not giving Doc any of those type players to play for most of this year.

to defend the bench guys, they needed time to gel and get to know each other. Also Rondo wasn't distributing the ball well to his new teammates.

but to criticize AB a little , and its far from cherry picking, his fg stats last year was close to 500 and this year is close to 400. There is no more excuse now as he has had lots of time to get the rust off coming back from injury. I'm hoping he is not cutting as much bc he is not 100 percent still, bc he can't afford to lose this part of his game on the offensive end.

[LooseCannon]

but to criticize AB a little , and its far from cherry picking, his fg stats last year was close to 500 and this year is close to 400. There is no more excuse now as he has had lots of time to get the rust off coming back from injury. I'm hoping he is not cutting as much bc he is not 100 percent still, bc he can't afford to lose this part of his game on the offensive end.

I think I've read that he still hasn't fully recovered his upper body strength, which is something that does affect shooting and ability to finish.

[SparzWizard]

Still a top 3 coach in the league.

More like a top 10 or 15 coach in the league.