Author Topic: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq  (Read 11306 times)

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Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« on: July 19, 2010, 02:34:06 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/columns/story?columnist=forsberg_chris&id=5392402

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One of the primary reasons the Celtics fell short of their ultimate goal a month ago was that the Lakers beat them up on the glass during the NBA Finals, particularly in Game 7, when second-chance opportunities might have cost Boston an 18th title.

Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge has noted a number of times this offseason that the team would like to add a big man to solidify a front line that will start the season without Kendrick Perkins (ACL surgery). It would seem the Green would benefit from a big whose focus is largely on rebounding.

Now the sobering reality: Of the top 25 free-agent rebounders (unrestricted and restricted) from last season (based on rebounds per game), only three remain on the market: Earl Barron, Shaquille O'Neal and Anthony Tolliver.

Daydreams of Shaq in green started last week when Ainge said the Celtics had conversations with him. But Ainge also stressed that with the addition of Jermaine O'Neal, any Shaq deal was "very unlikely."

Bringing in Shaq just doesn't make a lot of sense on the surface. Although Jermaine O'Neal played good soldier at his introduction and stressed that he has no problem slipping into a reserve role once Perkins returns to the starting lineup, it's hard to imagine a pair of veteran O'Neals being content to play backup roles (even if Boston can offer quality bench minutes to any big given the limited minutes that both Perkins and Kevin Garnett log).

Most importantly, remember that Shaq will turn 39 (thirty-nine!) before the 2011 playoffs. History simply isn't on the side of a player that age. The flip side, of course, is that O'Neal did have a decent postseason (11.5 points and 5.5 rebounds in 22.1 minutes per game in 11 appearances for the Cavaliers) and was still an imposing force in the middle of the floor.
Certainly no player would have more of a big-splash impact than Shaq, and there's a perception that Miami -- quickly anointed the (three) Kings of the East -- is weak up front and would be susceptible to any team with a fearsome front line.

Tolliver and Barron are lower-cost options who enjoyed strong finishes to the 2009-10 season after working their way back to the league from the D-League, but they are unproven over long stretches. It's unclear whether either would play for the minimum (Barron reportedly turned down a minimum offer from the Knicks to explore the market more), but as free agency winds down, it will be interesting to see what they seek from a team (a chance to win or playing time).

Tolliver appeared in 46 games for Golden State last season, averaging 11.7 points and 7 rebounds in 31 minutes per game. With increased playing time late in the season, he averaged 18.4 points and 11 rebounds in 41.2 minutes during the final five games of the regular season. That uptick in playing time could leave him yearning for a bigger role elsewhere.

Barron signed a 10-day contract with the Knicks in April and averaged 11.7 points and 11 rebounds per game in seven appearances (six starts). The Celtics should be mighty familiar after the 28-year-old posted 17 points and 18 rebounds in 44 minutes in New York's 104-101 triumph over Boston on April 6.

But maybe the fact that Tolliver and Barron are two of the more noteworthy names on the free-agent heap speaks to Paul Pierce's suggestion that there's only "slim pickings" remaining.

Free agent Earl Barron isn't exactly a household name, but might be a good option for the Celtics in the frontcourt.

Dig deeper into the free-agent pile and you'll find familiar names like Josh Boone, Kurt Thomas and even old friend Theo Ratliff (who played two forgettable games for Boston in 2006-07). Craig Smith, a Boston College product, remains a free agent as well.

The Celtics also can examine the trade market with Rasheed Wallace's contract, should the 15th-year veteran plan to follow through on his intentions to retire, possibly seeking out a team drifting over the luxury tax with its offseason moves. (We're looking at you, Houston Rockets.)

But Boston must figure out (1) whether Wallace is certain to retire, which still remains a little hazy, and (2) whether the Celtics prefer to seek a backup wing over a big man on the trade market, because that area might be of greater need at this point (and that position might be even slimmer pickings through free agency).

If all else fails, there's always the potential to bring back Wallace. Both Jermaine O'Neal and Pierce suggested last week that they plan to lobby Wallace for a return, maybe identifying that he's the best available big man, and the Celtics already have him locked up.

Trouble is, Wallace averaged only three rebounds per game in the postseason, even below the 4.1 he averaged during the regular season.

The Celtics were a good team on the glass at times during the regular season but got exposed by the Lakers in the NBA Finals. Boston won only the games in which it finished on top in the battle of the boards, and in Games 6 and 7 was dominated on the glass. The Lakers had a lopsided 105-79 edge in the final two games, topping 50 boards in each game.
The Celtics must find a way to improve on the glass against teams with size if they want another crack at Banner No. 18. That makes you wonder whether they'll have to take a longer look at Shaq. It doesn't make a lot of sense on the surface, but if they can sell him on a nonstarting role in Boston, it makes a lot of sense on the glass.

Plus, just imagine what the addition of Shaq could do for a potential Celtics-Lakers rubber match.

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2010, 02:44:57 PM »

Offline Rashi

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I have mentioned Barron's name a few times, and him or/and Tolliver would be very nice addition to the team for vet min. Both the guys are good rebounders, and that is one area which has hurt us a lot this year.

So yeah am def on board of getting one of them if not both.

As for Shaq...I still want him, because during the playoffs he can be very useful to us. Shaq is still good at getting others in foul trouble, and just his presence in the post is enough to intimidate guys like Bosh + Pau/Bynum.

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2010, 02:48:46 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I'm definitely in agreement with Forsberg. In fact, I wrote this June 30th, pre-JO signing, pre-Heat signings, and when we were debating between Shaq and B. Miller...

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At first I was thinking Miller, but after days mulling this over I say Shaq for a few reasons. First, he causes matchup problems. Take the Lakers for example. Gasol could take advantage of Miller offensively and yet not get exploited on the defensive end. The Lakers just wouldn't have been able to put Gasol on Shaq for more than a few minutes, if that. This would've forced Jackson to go with Bynum for long stretches, despite the knee issues, or go deeper down the bench. We also functioned best when Sheed was in the post and the offense, specifically that second unit, worked from inside out. Doc will have no problems begging Shaq to get in the post. Miller on the other hand just isn't that type of player. He's a face the basket spot up shooter. I think both are poor defenders at this stage in their career when covering the perimeter. However, Shaq is the one that could cause a matchup problem on the other end. Miller is a nice player, but he just doesn't have the offensive tools/physical attributes to give opposing centers problems.

And not a conspiracy type of guy, but how many favorable whistles do you think we would get during the playoffs vs. any non-LeBron led team? One would think Stern would salivate at the ratings a Celtics vs Lakers part 3 would generate along with a Shaq vs Kobe subplot.

and this yesterday...

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Is only having 3 solid big men for the first half of the year going to result in too many minutes for KG and JO? What if Perk has a setback in his rehab?   Let's say Perk does return strong, he still is a non-factor offensively and won't be able to take advantage of Miami's Center by Committee as well as Shaq would. Having Perk, and a potentially not 100% Perk at that, would allow the Heat to play us much more honest on D.

Basketball is a game of matchups and ur biggest threats to #18 are as follows:

Orlando. Shaq isn't as good defensively as Perk is on Howard, but he is big enough to not allow good post position and could draw some fouls from Howard.

Miami. There Center by Committee looks to be between Big Z, Magloire, Haslem, Anthony, and Juwan Howard. How many of those players could Perk take advantage of in the post? How many of those players could Shaq take advantage of in the post? Is Perk's better defense than Shaq really necessary vs. any of those players?

LA Lakers. They often play Gasol at the 4 when Odom replaces Bynum. Gasol was able to do this because Perk is a non-factor offensively. However, if we have Shaq the Lakers simply won't have the luxury of doing that and if they do they seriously risk having Shaq get Gasol in foul problems.

I think Forsberg is getting ideas for his columns from this site and is one of the many "guests" you see reading threads.  ;)

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2010, 02:49:43 PM »

Offline Mr October

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I've been down with the Shaq idea from day 1... or as soon as Perkins went down with an injury and Sheed was leaning towards retirement.

Shaq can still give a very solid 20 MPG. Thats all we need.

Take back Moon and/or Parker as well, and we are all systems go.

Flip Cleveland the pupu platter (non guaranteed contracts, cash, first round pick). The Cavs save money and get a pick for parts they don't need.

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2010, 02:53:55 PM »

Offline ssspence

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Side note: did anyone else read that article and ask, who the heck is Anthony Tolliver? His numbers are pretty [dang] good with GSW (inflated, as all are there, im sure).

Anyone seen him play?

Sounds like the Cs could do worse than to pick up a guy like this as an end-of-the-bench big.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Tolliver-1279/

Earl Barron should also be consider as he can board and hit the midrange J.

For those of you who didn't see this last year...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7KqJTZgquM&feature=player_embedded
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 03:05:40 PM by ssspence »
Mike

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Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2010, 02:55:04 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I've been down with the Shaq idea from day 1... or as soon as Perkins went down with an injury and Sheed was leaning towards retirement.

Shaq can still give a very solid 20 MPG. Thats all we need.

Take back Moon and/or Parker as well, and we are all systems go.

Flip Cleveland the pupu platter (non guaranteed contracts, cash, first round pick). The Cavs save money and get a pick for parts they don't need.


A first round pick would be unnecessary and not palatable to the Cs.
Mike

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Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2010, 02:55:46 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I want him and he wants us, come on danny get her done!

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2010, 03:02:04 PM »

Offline Chris

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If he is willing to come for the minimum, sure, but I am not all that excited about the idea.  It is a very big personality to bring into this lockerroom, and could cause major problems once Perk returns.

I think, unless the C's are lying about how bad Perk's injury is, they are much better off going to get a veteran big man like Kurt Thomas, Rasho Nesterovic, Fabricio Oberto, or someone else of that ilk to hold down the fort for a few months. 

Last year they did just fine with Shelden Williams stepping in for Glen Davis, so I see no reason why they can't do the same thing with Perk...particularly with JO, who should have more left in the tank than Sheed, as well as a much more healthy KG.

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2010, 03:07:00 PM »

Offline ssspence

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If he is willing to come for the minimum, sure, but I am not all that excited about the idea.  It is a very big personality to bring into this lockerroom, and could cause major problems once Perk returns.

I think, unless the C's are lying about how bad Perk's injury is, they are much better off going to get a veteran big man like Kurt Thomas, Rasho Nesterovic, Fabricio Oberto, or someone else of that ilk to hold down the fort for a few months. 

Last year they did just fine with Shelden Williams stepping in for Glen Davis, so I see no reason why they can't do the same thing with Perk...particularly with JO, who should have more left in the tank than Sheed, as well as a much more healthy KG.

Rasho would actually be a good option -- he's an underrated post defender. You'd obviously be open to Kurt Thomas too.
Mike

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Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2010, 03:10:40 PM »

Offline manl_lui

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with perk down, its necessary to get Shaq

someone who can grab boards, finish and defend against howard, pau/bynum

on the FA list, only Shaq

JO is not ready and even if Perk comes back, with his injury he will be limited, and he can't do it alone...

reason why we were able to defend against dwight was because we constantly threw guys at him...

with Shaq, it will be much better and not worry about finishing in the paint for the others

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2010, 03:10:54 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I like Forsberg a lot, but sometimes he doesn't really know the market value of players.

In the article he doesn't say it out right but we would need to sign shaq at the min. Also in a previous article he stated that Josh Howard might not be willing to take the full value of Sheed's contract via a sign and trade.
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Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2010, 03:11:50 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Side note: did anyone else read that article and ask, who the heck is Anthony Tolliver? His numbers are pretty [dang] good with GSW (inflated, as all are there, im sure).

Anyone seen him play?

Sounds like the Cs could do worse than to pick up a guy like this as an end-of-the-bench big.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Tolliver-1279/

Earl Barron should also be consider as he can board and hit the midrange J.

For those of you who didn't see this last year...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7KqJTZgquM&feature=player_embedded

Tolliver had a good run for GSW at the end of the season, but let's not forget he was playing real loose since they were decimated with injuries and he knew he would get major PT. He can board, looked fairly athletic, and can shoot the 3. He's very undersized for a 5. Looks more like a 4. Didn't pay attention to his D, was just watching him for Fantasy bball purposes.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 03:19:21 PM by Eddie20 »

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2010, 03:29:25 PM »

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I've been down with the Shaq idea from day 1... or as soon as Perkins went down with an injury and Sheed was leaning towards retirement.

Shaq can still give a very solid 20 MPG. Thats all we need.

Take back Moon and/or Parker as well, and we are all systems go.

Flip Cleveland the pupu platter (non guaranteed contracts, cash, first round pick). The Cavs save money and get a pick for parts they don't need.
How about Earl Barron & Wilson Chandler for Sheeds contract? NY is shopping Chandler. He'd be a good backup to Pierce & Barron solves our big man need.

Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2010, 03:42:24 PM »

Offline ssspence

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I've been down with the Shaq idea from day 1... or as soon as Perkins went down with an injury and Sheed was leaning towards retirement.

Shaq can still give a very solid 20 MPG. Thats all we need.

Take back Moon and/or Parker as well, and we are all systems go.

Flip Cleveland the pupu platter (non guaranteed contracts, cash, first round pick). The Cavs save money and get a pick for parts they don't need.
How about Earl Barron & Wilson Chandler for Sheeds contract? NY is shopping Chandler. He'd be a good backup to Pierce & Barron solves our big man need.

shopping him doesn't mean they want to give him away for nothing.
Mike

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Re: Chris Forsberg (ESPN) C's should get Shaq
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2010, 04:03:20 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Isn’t Dampier still out there?