Author Topic: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys  (Read 13002 times)

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Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2010, 05:42:24 PM »

Offline Chris

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TA isn't a young guy.  And the real young guys can't play.  So no, I do not agree with this thread.

Agreed.  I think Doc needs to stop relying so heavily on his guys like Pierce, Ray, Garnett and Wallace so much (Ray is in a terrible slump, and Pierce and Wallace are in cruise control right now), but the whole idea of "playing the young guys" is a losers mentality.  What Doc needs to do is trust his secondary players a little more (and in turn, the secondary player need to step it up more, to earn that trust).  But it has nothing to do with young and old, it has to do with this team not being a 3-4 man show anymore.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2010, 06:03:46 PM »

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I have to agree with the sentiment of the OP, which I read as "we don't have enouch energy on the floor with only the older vets playing, and a shot of youthful vigor would improve the team's overall play."

I also think Doc pretty much blows at rotations, and always has.  Better coaches that we've had in Boston would put a younger, inexperienced player on the floor with the starters, rather than the second unit.  The vets help the young guy along.  It's hard to play well when the other guys on the floor are being outplayed, too.  Doc tends to play lines like he's coaching hockey or something...  The displaced starter moves to the bench, becoming...wait for it...the 6th man.  The coach who came up with this brilliant idea was Red.  He "got" it.

Do we have young players that are capable of pulling this off is certainly debatable (probably not), but as a strategy, it is a very, very good way to compensate for aging veterans, develop young players, and keep vets around by bringing them off the bench.

Despite the many who disagreed with the OP (and were probably correct), it's a good question.  A spot-up 3pt shooter who can scrap for loose balls and at least play man-up defense should be serviceable for at least some minutes with our starters.  Let KG help by calling out the rotations for the guy, he's supposed to be good at that.

If we don't have any useful young players, blame Danny, not Doc.  But if the players don't get better, blame Doc.  He's supposed to be teaching them.  They're only supposed to be role players, anyway.  Let's not expect these kids to be superstars as late-round picks.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2010, 06:06:13 PM »

Offline threats13

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I have to agree with the sentiment of the OP, which I read as "we don't have enouch energy on the floor with only the older vets playing, and a shot of youthful vigor would improve the team's overall play."

I also think Doc pretty much blows at rotations, and always has.  Better coaches that we've had in Boston would put a younger, inexperienced player on the floor with the starters, rather than the second unit.  The vets help the young guy along.  It's hard to play well when the other guys on the floor are being outplayed, too.  Doc tends to play lines like he's coaching hockey or something...  The displaced starter moves to the bench, becoming...wait for it...the 6th man.  The coach who came up with this brilliant idea was Red.  He "got" it.

Do we have young players that are capable of pulling this off is certainly debatable (probably not), but as a strategy, it is a very, very good way to compensate for aging veterans, develop young players, and keep vets around by bringing them off the bench.

Despite the many who disagreed with the OP (and were probably correct), it's a good question.  A spot-up 3pt shooter who can scrap for loose balls and at least play man-up defense should be serviceable for at least some minutes with our starters.  Let KG help by calling out the rotations for the guy, he's supposed to be good at that.

If we don't have any useful young players, blame Danny, not Doc.  But if the players don't get better, blame Doc.  He's supposed to be teaching them.  They're only supposed to be role players, anyway.  Let's not expect these kids to be superstars as late-round picks.


finally someone who understood the my original post...theres hope for humanity after all
The NBA..where "this whole sport is a business and the referees decide games and David Stern is a snake and is only in this for the money" happens.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2010, 06:07:05 PM »

Offline buellj814

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looked pretty [dang] young to me yesterday when he was taking the Lakers to town

so you really believe that Tony Allen has young legs?? well maybe his calves and thighs but your legs cant be too young when you have no knees or ankles sorry!

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2010, 06:11:40 PM »

Offline threats13

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looked pretty [dang] young to me yesterday when he was taking the Lakers to town

so you really believe that Tony Allen has young legs?? well maybe his calves and thighs but your legs cant be too young when you have no knees or ankles sorry!

so is everyone going to look right past the fact that tony allen looked incredible yesterday and was clearly faster than everyone else on the Celtics other than Rondo and only care about the fact he had two surgeries. I get it he had surgeries I know just as much as you do about them and I dont care he outhustled and outplayed every single person on the Celtics, other than Rondo, in his limited minutes and that is all that I can ask out of him.  If some of our "superstars" played with half the energy he did we might have won that game
The NBA..where "this whole sport is a business and the referees decide games and David Stern is a snake and is only in this for the money" happens.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2010, 06:19:08 PM »

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I have to agree with the sentiment of the OP, which I read as "we don't have enouch energy on the floor with only the older vets playing, and a shot of youthful vigor would improve the team's overall play."

I also think Doc pretty much blows at rotations, and always has.  Better coaches that we've had in Boston would put a younger, inexperienced player on the floor with the starters, rather than the second unit.  The vets help the young guy along.  It's hard to play well when the other guys on the floor are being outplayed, too.  Doc tends to play lines like he's coaching hockey or something...  The displaced starter moves to the bench, becoming...wait for it...the 6th man.  The coach who came up with this brilliant idea was Red.  He "got" it.

Do we have young players that are capable of pulling this off is certainly debatable (probably not), but as a strategy, it is a very, very good way to compensate for aging veterans, develop young players, and keep vets around by bringing them off the bench.

Despite the many who disagreed with the OP (and were probably correct), it's a good question.  A spot-up 3pt shooter who can scrap for loose balls and at least play man-up defense should be serviceable for at least some minutes with our starters.  Let KG help by calling out the rotations for the guy, he's supposed to be good at that.

If we don't have any useful young players, blame Danny, not Doc.  But if the players don't get better, blame Doc.  He's supposed to be teaching them.  They're only supposed to be role players, anyway.  Let's not expect these kids to be superstars as late-round picks.


finally someone who understood the my original post...theres hope for humanity after all

Probably not...someone, somewhere is typing out a post about what an idiot I am for wanting Bill Walker to start, even though I wrote no such thing.

I appreciate your post, though.  Aside from not understanding matchups (and putting Eddie House on Jason Terry, and, I think, Crawford?), I am critical of Doc for how he uses young players (or doesn't).  There isn't much to really learn in garbage time.

To give credit where it is due, I think Phil Jackson has done a good job at developing young role players by giving them meaningful minutes along with established players early in the season and in games, and it has paid off in the playoffs.  Of course, Red would point out that Phil took his idea...  But Doc keeps the starters playing together, into the 4th quarter, even when we're coasting with a 20 point lead (I remember a few games like that...).

I don't understand all the Doc love.  I really don't.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2010, 06:20:58 PM »

Offline buellj814

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looked pretty [dang] young to me yesterday when he was taking the Lakers to town

so you really believe that Tony Allen has young legs?? well maybe his calves and thighs but your legs cant be too young when you have no knees or ankles sorry!

so is everyone going to look right past the fact that tony allen looked incredible yesterday and was clearly faster than everyone else on the Celtics other than Rondo and only care about the fact he had two surgeries. I get it he had surgeries I know just as much as you do about them and I dont care he outhustled and outplayed every single person on the Celtics, other than Rondo, in his limited minutes and that is all that I can ask out of him.  If some of our "superstars" played with half the energy he did we might have won that game

thats great.. he scores 12 points granted he was very good yesterday but this guy is not the answer at the 2 and he at best his prob an 8th guy off the bench that creates the occasional spark

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2010, 06:22:52 PM »

Offline buellj814

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I have to agree with the sentiment of the OP, which I read as "we don't have enouch energy on the floor with only the older vets playing, and a shot of youthful vigor would improve the team's overall play."

I also think Doc pretty much blows at rotations, and always has.  Better coaches that we've had in Boston would put a younger, inexperienced player on the floor with the starters, rather than the second unit.  The vets help the young guy along.  It's hard to play well when the other guys on the floor are being outplayed, too.  Doc tends to play lines like he's coaching hockey or something...  The displaced starter moves to the bench, becoming...wait for it...the 6th man.  The coach who came up with this brilliant idea was Red.  He "got" it.

Do we have young players that are capable of pulling this off is certainly debatable (probably not), but as a strategy, it is a very, very good way to compensate for aging veterans, develop young players, and keep vets around by bringing them off the bench.

Despite the many who disagreed with the OP (and were probably correct), it's a good question.  A spot-up 3pt shooter who can scrap for loose balls and at least play man-up defense should be serviceable for at least some minutes with our starters.  Let KG help by calling out the rotations for the guy, he's supposed to be good at that.

If we don't have any useful young players, blame Danny, not Doc.  But if the players don't get better, blame Doc.  He's supposed to be teaching them.  They're only supposed to be role players, anyway.  Let's not expect these kids to be superstars as late-round picks.


finally someone who understood the my original post...theres hope for humanity after all

Probably not...someone, somewhere is typing out a post about what an idiot I am for wanting Bill Walker to start, even though I wrote no such thing.

I appreciate your post, though.  Aside from not understanding matchups (and putting Eddie House on Jason Terry, and, I think, Crawford?), I am critical of Doc for how he uses young players (or doesn't).  There isn't much to really learn in garbage time.

To give credit where it is due, I think Phil Jackson has done a good job at developing young role players by giving them meaningful minutes along with established players early in the season and in games, and it has paid off in the playoffs.  Of course, Red would point out that Phil took his idea...  But Doc keeps the starters playing together, into the 4th quarter, even when we're coasting with a 20 point lead (I remember a few games like that...).

I don't understand all the Doc love.  I really don't.

who the hell has jackson developed?? he hates bynum and has called him out several times about being soft and not tough enough.. bynum has developed because he has talent something our young guys lack plain and simple

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2010, 06:25:22 PM »

Offline threats13

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looked pretty [dang] young to me yesterday when he was taking the Lakers to town

so you really believe that Tony Allen has young legs?? well maybe his calves and thighs but your legs cant be too young when you have no knees or ankles sorry!

so is everyone going to look right past the fact that tony allen looked incredible yesterday and was clearly faster than everyone else on the Celtics other than Rondo and only care about the fact he had two surgeries. I get it he had surgeries I know just as much as you do about them and I dont care he outhustled and outplayed every single person on the Celtics, other than Rondo, in his limited minutes and that is all that I can ask out of him.  If some of our "superstars" played with half the energy he did we might have won that game

thats great.. he scores 12 points granted he was very good yesterday but this guy is not the answer at the 2 and he at best his prob an 8th guy off the bench that creates the occasional spark

when did i ever say he was anything other than an 8th guy off the bench..wallace is still the first, daniels when healthy the 2nd, davis, TA, etc i dont understand why people must put words in your mouth on here
The NBA..where "this whole sport is a business and the referees decide games and David Stern is a snake and is only in this for the money" happens.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2010, 06:30:06 PM »

Offline buellj814

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looked pretty [dang] young to me yesterday when he was taking the Lakers to town

so you really believe that Tony Allen has young legs?? well maybe his calves and thighs but your legs cant be too young when you have no knees or ankles sorry!

so is everyone going to look right past the fact that tony allen looked incredible yesterday and was clearly faster than everyone else on the Celtics other than Rondo and only care about the fact he had two surgeries. I get it he had surgeries I know just as much as you do about them and I dont care he outhustled and outplayed every single person on the Celtics, other than Rondo, in his limited minutes and that is all that I can ask out of him.  If some of our "superstars" played with half the energy he did we might have won that game

thats great.. he scores 12 points granted he was very good yesterday but this guy is not the answer at the 2 and he at best his prob an 8th guy off the bench that creates the occasional spark

when did i ever say he was anything other than an 8th guy off the bench..wallace is still the first, daniels when healthy the 2nd, davis, TA, etc i dont understand why people must put words in your mouth on here

YOUR saying he deserves more playing time but then you all your saying is that he is an 8th guy in the roatation well if hes the third guy off the bench hes not going to be plaing big minutes...

To your original post there is nobody young and talented besides rondo and perk on this team and guess who plays alot??? yup Rondo and perk and that is because they actually have talent

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2010, 06:31:58 PM »

Offline threats13

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looked pretty [dang] young to me yesterday when he was taking the Lakers to town

so you really believe that Tony Allen has young legs?? well maybe his calves and thighs but your legs cant be too young when you have no knees or ankles sorry!

so is everyone going to look right past the fact that tony allen looked incredible yesterday and was clearly faster than everyone else on the Celtics other than Rondo and only care about the fact he had two surgeries. I get it he had surgeries I know just as much as you do about them and I dont care he outhustled and outplayed every single person on the Celtics, other than Rondo, in his limited minutes and that is all that I can ask out of him.  If some of our "superstars" played with half the energy he did we might have won that game

thats great.. he scores 12 points granted he was very good yesterday but this guy is not the answer at the 2 and he at best his prob an 8th guy off the bench that creates the occasional spark

when did i ever say he was anything other than an 8th guy off the bench..wallace is still the first, daniels when healthy the 2nd, davis, TA, etc i dont understand why people must put words in your mouth on here

YOUR saying he deserves more playing time but then you all your saying is that he is an 8th guy in the roatation well if hes the third guy off the bench hes not going to be plaing big minutes...

To your original post there is nobody young and talented besides rondo and perk on this team and guess who plays alot??? yup Rondo and perk and that is because they actually have talent

if you actually read the entire thread you would see that i stated that TA should be playin 6-8 minutes per half which equates to 12-16 minutes per game thats what I said so I'll repeat do not tell me what I said
The NBA..where "this whole sport is a business and the referees decide games and David Stern is a snake and is only in this for the money" happens.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2010, 06:34:35 PM »

Offline buellj814

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looked pretty [dang] young to me yesterday when he was taking the Lakers to town

so you really believe that Tony Allen has young legs?? well maybe his calves and thighs but your legs cant be too young when you have no knees or ankles sorry!

so is everyone going to look right past the fact that tony allen looked incredible yesterday and was clearly faster than everyone else on the Celtics other than Rondo and only care about the fact he had two surgeries. I get it he had surgeries I know just as much as you do about them and I dont care he outhustled and outplayed every single person on the Celtics, other than Rondo, in his limited minutes and that is all that I can ask out of him.  If some of our "superstars" played with half the energy he did we might have won that game

thats great.. he scores 12 points granted he was very good yesterday but this guy is not the answer at the 2 and he at best his prob an 8th guy off the bench that creates the occasional spark

when did i ever say he was anything other than an 8th guy off the bench..wallace is still the first, daniels when healthy the 2nd, davis, TA, etc i dont understand why people must put words in your mouth on here

YOUR saying he deserves more playing time but then you all your saying is that he is an 8th guy in the roatation well if hes the third guy off the bench hes not going to be plaing big minutes...

To your original post there is nobody young and talented besides rondo and perk on this team and guess who plays alot??? yup Rondo and perk and that is because they actually have talent

if you actually read the entire thread you would see that i stated that TA should be playin 6-8 minutes per half which equates to 12-16 minutes per game thats what I said so I'll repeat do not tell me what I said

never in your original post did you mention how many minutes he should be playing.. i just went back and read the original post it mentions nothing about the allocation of minutes

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2010, 06:35:15 PM »

Offline jr_3421

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I'm a fan of playing Bill Walker around 8 min a game. He brings energy if nothing else which is what this team needs. Doc said that he was going to start playing him in this way to lessen the load on Piece and Ray so it seems that Doc hasn't lost all hope with Walker.
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Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2010, 06:39:02 PM »

Offline threats13

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if you read my original post youd notice that i never mentioned bill walker once so my arguing in favor of bill walker is because people felt the need to bring him up.  My main gripe is that TA needs to be playing a 2 half role..one that involves him playing 6-8 minutes in the first half and 6-8 in the second half EVERY GAME not once in a blue moon.  My argument in favor of Bill Walker is solely because I think the guy needs a legit chance before, like everyone on this site loves to do, making a quick assumption that he "sucks".  Unless I see a guy play consistent minutes I will never ever say he sucks.  IMO the NBA is an oppurtunistic league as are many other sports and the guys that get the legit shots are the guys that stick around the longest.  Those who get snubbed and labeled as "sucking" early on usually fade out before really gettin a chance to prove they can play NBA ball

 i posted that at 5:06:55 PM on the 2nd page..again your reading skills are suspect I said read the entire thread not the original post
The NBA..where "this whole sport is a business and the referees decide games and David Stern is a snake and is only in this for the money" happens.

Re: Officially sick of Doc refusing to play the young guys
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2010, 06:41:58 PM »

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I have to agree with the sentiment of the OP, which I read as "we don't have enouch energy on the floor with only the older vets playing, and a shot of youthful vigor would improve the team's overall play."

I also think Doc pretty much blows at rotations, and always has.  Better coaches that we've had in Boston would put a younger, inexperienced player on the floor with the starters, rather than the second unit.  The vets help the young guy along.  It's hard to play well when the other guys on the floor are being outplayed, too.  Doc tends to play lines like he's coaching hockey or something...  The displaced starter moves to the bench, becoming...wait for it...the 6th man.  The coach who came up with this brilliant idea was Red.  He "got" it.

Do we have young players that are capable of pulling this off is certainly debatable (probably not), but as a strategy, it is a very, very good way to compensate for aging veterans, develop young players, and keep vets around by bringing them off the bench.

Despite the many who disagreed with the OP (and were probably correct), it's a good question.  A spot-up 3pt shooter who can scrap for loose balls and at least play man-up defense should be serviceable for at least some minutes with our starters.  Let KG help by calling out the rotations for the guy, he's supposed to be good at that.

If we don't have any useful young players, blame Danny, not Doc.  But if the players don't get better, blame Doc.  He's supposed to be teaching them.  They're only supposed to be role players, anyway.  Let's not expect these kids to be superstars as late-round picks.


finally someone who understood the my original post...theres hope for humanity after all

Probably not...someone, somewhere is typing out a post about what an idiot I am for wanting Bill Walker to start, even though I wrote no such thing.

I appreciate your post, though.  Aside from not understanding matchups (and putting Eddie House on Jason Terry, and, I think, Crawford?), I am critical of Doc for how he uses young players (or doesn't).  There isn't much to really learn in garbage time.

To give credit where it is due, I think Phil Jackson has done a good job at developing young role players by giving them meaningful minutes along with established players early in the season and in games, and it has paid off in the playoffs.  Of course, Red would point out that Phil took his idea...  But Doc keeps the starters playing together, into the 4th quarter, even when we're coasting with a 20 point lead (I remember a few games like that...).

I don't understand all the Doc love.  I really don't.

who the hell has jackson developed?? he hates bynum and has called him out several times about being soft and not tough enough.. bynum has developed because he has talent something our young guys lack plain and simple

Here are some of LA's picks this decade, with draft position, who have seen the court and contributed as role players, including in some important games.  Several are still with the team:

Luke Walton, 2003, 32nd pick
Jordan Farmar, 2006, 26th pick
Sasha Vujacic, 2004, 27th pick
Kareem Rush, 2002, 20th pick (traded for the pick that became:
Ronny Turiaf, 2005, 37th pick
Brian Cook, 2003, 24th pick
Von Wafer, 2005, 39th pick
Tyronne Lue, 1998, 23rd pick
Devean George, 1999, 23rd pick

So, after looking this up, not only is the idea I posted in this thread above viable, but there is plenty of useful NBA players to be found late in the draft.  Perhaps either Danny isn't as good as we give him credit for, or the coaching staff is missing something in developing them.