Will Celtics pursue Kawhi Leonard and Cousins this offseason?

[Mass_1081]

 is Leornard really a max guy? I think he gets overhyped because of his finals play. He's a great rebounder for his size, I just don't see why he gets more than say Draymond Green this offseason. Leonard, Cousins, Butler will not be Celtics next year. Harris and Monroe are a lot more realistic.

[LarBrd33]

100% chance we will pursue them.  1% chance we get them.

[tazzmaniac]

I'm not sure why everyone is so high on Leonard. He's either the next Aaron Afflalo, or the next Jimmy Buttler. Except we can't really know yet.

Neither of those comparisons gives me much confidence at this point.

I think nearly every NBA team would like to have a healthy Jimmy Butler clone on their team right now.

He's having a good season, that's about it. Are you willing to roll the dice on a 4-5 year MAX contract on him just because he's having a very good season?

That's usually how mistakes are made.

Because this needs to be mentioned every time someone argues against a MAX contract, especially when capitalized:

1) Not all max contracts are equal.  Butler will be eligible for a smaller max contract than LaMarcus Aldridge, for example (about 16% less in year 1).

2) If the celtics somehow signed Butler, he'd be paid approximately 18.5% of the cap in year 2 of his contract, which in 2014-2015 cap dollars would be the equivalent of making $11.7 million under the current cap.  A player making $11.7 million would be the 50th highest paid player in the NBA.  It's pretty unlikely that paying Butler that amount will make him an albatross that breaks your team.  Of course, because of this fact it's all moot, as the Bulls can match any offer, and will do so, especially if it's a 4-year contract.

And 3) I'm well aware of what a MAX contract entails.

Though I think your figures are a bit understated. For example, you take a Gordon Hayward on his year 3, and unless you're using different figures than the projected cap for 2017, he would be making about 20% of the cap.

Butler's contract should be more expensive than that I would project with 2015 projected numbers.

That said, this has nothing to do about paying the MAX or not. I use MAX and MIN in capital letters just because, not to accentuate it.

The main point here is if one is willing to invest on a player, heavily, reducing buying power as it is, on a player that has a single season of actual great play to go for it.

It's more of evaluating if this is a player that is projected to continue to play this well beyond this year or not. I'm personally not ready to give that contract without much thought and evaluation behind it. If at the end of the day you do feel this season is not fool's gold, then heck, go for it.

I'm not sure if Butler is that player. I rather keep more options open, particularly when you consider that the abundance of 1st round picks will be eating up our salary cap quicker than one might think in coming years. There's a huge consolidation process that needs to happen.

But as you mention, Butler if he doesn't live up to it, it's not a albatross that would break our team. That doesn't excuse throwing money away.

In the end the question always will be for me... is this a one-year wonder player?

Butler is on a good team with a good coach so that minimizes my concern that he is a one-year wonder player.  I also think the skill sets of Butler (or Leonard) would fit well with what CBS is trying to do.  So I wouldn't foresee a Stephenson situation.  With the new TV deal coming, I think offering a MAX contract to Butler or Leonard is a no-brainer.  We've got to get some better young talent on the team to start building around.   

[Boris Badenov]

100% chance we will pursue them.  1% chance we get them.

TP for being optimistic.

[Csfan1984]

Just my opinion  but Leonard > Butler it's not even close for me.

[jonaslopes]

Just my opinion  but Leonard > Butler it's not even close for me.

Agreed. I'd pay the max for Leonard. Easily.

[mahcus smaht]

100% chance we will pursue them.  1% chance we get them.

TP. In fact 1% may be high. I give us about a 2% chance for either alone which drops us to .04% chance we grab both.

[Eja117]

Gotta try to go after them just to drive up the price

[BDeCosta26]

Just my opinion  but Leonard > Butler it's not even close for me.

Agreed. I'd pay the max for Leonard. Easily.

Absolutely. He's a PERFECT fit for our gaping hole on the wing. I like Butler a lot, and might even offer him a "max" contract but Kawhi is really going to be something.

At 6'8-230, he can create his own shot, play off the ball, get to the cup, hit 3s at an above average clip, can guard just about anybody and is highly athletic while only being 23 years old. He's already been the best player in a championship series that included 3 or 4 of the best players from the past 15 years. If I was Danny I would do everything and anything to get that guy here. The deal he signs this year will look like more than reasonable when it ends and he's just hitting his peak.

I'd probably $--- myself if San Antonio let him leave, no matter who does what. He's their future. Duncan and Manu are right at the end of the line.

[LooseCannon]

is Leornard really a max guy? I think he gets overhyped because of his finals play. He's a great rebounder for his size, I just don't see why he gets more than say Draymond Green this offseason. Leonard, Cousins, Butler will not be Celtics next year. Harris and Monroe are a lot more realistic.

Leonard has been a darling of analytics types for his entire career.   If you ask them, Kawhi Leonard>Kyrie Irving.  The NBA Finals just brought him to greater attention from more casual fans.

[fairweatherfan]

Absolutely we will.  I'll be shocked if we get either, though. 

...I do see the George Karl era is not going great so far, though.  So I'm saying there's a chance 

[Al91]

Going off what some of us have discussed about Butler already, in comparison to Leonard and such:

I doubt Butler is a one hit wonder. He's steadily improved each of the last three seasons. Two years ago he began earning more floor time. Last year I expected his offense to take off and it didn't but his defense was solid. This year his offense EXPLODED! He's been so good for that Bulls team, a team where Rose is possibly their 3rd if not 4th best player, that people even considered Butler as a serious MVP candidate prior to LeBron taking off again.

The only credence to the argument that he isn't a max player that I can give is that he's in a contract year but I don't recall many contract year players playing this well, this demonstrably better than they had in previous years, like Butler is doing now.

Again, I don't see the Cousins thing happening at all. We'd be fools not to throw a big contract at Leonard, if for no other reason than to strain the Spurs a little bit moving forward and making them match an offer. There's plenty of other teams that will do that sorta thing though so the Celtics can avoid playing dirty like that.

[greece66]

I've heard that the Celtics want to sign Kawhi Leonard to a max contract this off season. I also heard that the celtics really want to trade for Demarcus Cousins this off season with Brandon Bass and a 2016 draft pick as possible trade pieces. Can anyone confirm the validity of these rumors?

In a short comeback appearance to the forums...
Guys, guys, guys, I left the forums for what? 2 weeks? And here we go with the wild rumours about KD, Anthony Davis and [of course] Kawhi Leonard.
i/Leonard
a)He is one of the 10-15 players who unquestionably deserve a max contract. To say that 'the C's want to sign him' means nothing. Every team in the NBA wants to sign Kawhi Leonard.
b) He is a restricted free agent. He goes nowhere unless the SAS let him go.
c) He has no reason to leave SAS: great franchise, great coach, fans love him... Ah and he said so himself
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/spurs/2014/11/11/kawhi-leonard-free-agency-future-san-antonio-vs-los-angeles-clippers-gregg-popovich/18838947/
ii/Cousins
a) Bass's contract expires this summer...
b) even if it didn't... trading a potentially good 2016 pick + what would be best described as a solid bench player for a contender...  for an all star... You must think D'Alessandro has mental health issues...
I can see you are a good fan, but do try to keep it realistic...
Personally, I'd be happy if this summer we get a SF who plays iso and defend well (a kind of 23-5 yo JGreen) and a fast, long shot blocker (someone like Alex Len). With these two additions, we would be strong candidates for first seed in the Atlantic division= home advantage in the first playoff round.
We would still need the 1-2 all star calibre players who would turn us into contenders, but we ll probably have to wait a couple of years for that (and only if we get lucky).
PS time to re-open the tanking thread...