CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: rondohondo on October 19, 2017, 01:05:29 PM
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Jaylen has been great going to the hoop, but I still think Tatum has the better offensive potential.
We need to run more plays for Tatum on the low post and in the pick and roll game with Kyrie.
Smart needs to go to the bench when Morris comes back. I think that would help with spacing a lot , and open up things for both Jaylen and Tatum.
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Love what we've gotten from Jaylen so far and I hope it continues. With that said, Tatum has the makings of go-to scorer in the NBA - from every position, in every way, with length, savvy, touch, feel etc. He's also 19 and is well beyond his years on that front. He'll have growing pains and many rookie moments this year, but he has a great future.
As far as which will be the better overall player - that's a more interesting question, IMHO. Still think Tatum could have the edge, but it'll be close!
Agree on your last point. I would love a starting 5 of Irving/Brown/Tatum/Morris/Horford.
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I'd like to see us free up Tatum for more threes. The only way he is going to extend his range is by getting those reps, and if he makes a good percentage of them, it makes the team better now.
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I would say Tatum because he seems like he can score in a lot of ways but you can't deny Jaylen going to the rim is elite NBA level looking stuff so far and he has been hitting some tough outside shots. There's no question that Tatum so far looks a lot better than Brown did coming in though.
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Tatum.
Brown is more athletic and has more potential as an all around superstar.
Tatum might be a top 10 scorer in this league at some point.
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tatum potentially has the whole package
jaylen has been awesome to watch but i think will be limited to dunks/drives and 3's overall, not really creating his own shot down the stretch like a go to scorer would.
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5 years down the line, Brown will be an elite transition scorer being almost unstoppable on the fast break much like guys like LeBron and Giannis are now.
Tatum in that same time span will be the one getting the tough shots in a grind it out half court offense.
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I voted Tatum because i am just comparing his rookie year so far compared to Jaylen's rookie year
Tatum has another tool going for him that Jaylen did not - his rebounding, a better polished offensive game during rookie year. Tatum loves that fake and shot and post shot, something Jaylen didn't have as well
I think if Tatum can be consistent being a 8 and 7 guy right off the bat (if more, GREAT), then I like his chances of growing into a superstar down the road
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Being a #1 scorer in the league is incredibly hard. There aren't many players that can do it so the fact that even 1 of these 2 guys has potential for it is great
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It’s tatum. Jaylen is great in the open court and a free flowing game but doesn’t have the offensive game to be successful in half court when the defense is geared to stop you.
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Tatum.
You can tell he is the shot creator type in the mold of Pierce. Brown needs the table set more for him. Love both, though.
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I hope both reach max potential and destroy the league for years on end! Personally, I think both will be good at it eventually but maybe Tatum will be better at it because he has more shots at the moment, he looks like he will be able to keep people guessing and he already has taken on that role in his past.
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Tatum clearly has a more polished offensive game right now, and a much more diversified offensive game. He can hit hard shots and make it look silky smooth. So I went Tatum. That being said it Jaylen has already showed a lot of skill driving and finishing at the hoop along with a decent ability to finish through contact and get a foul. If he can just do that and combine it with a league average or better three point shot he'll be a very goo scorer. The three most efficient shots on the court are at the rim, at the foul line, and from 3 (if you can hit it). He has the potential to have all three in his back pocket. But he doesn't have Tatum's ability to manufacture a shot out of thin air.
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I think they both reasonably have potential to be 20 PPG scorers eventually. JB clearly is headed in that direction.
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I think they both reasonably have potential to be 20 PPG scorers eventually. JB clearly is headed in that direction.
I agree, but they'll get their points in different ways. Jaylen will get points in the open court, sport up 3's, and by slashing, Tatum will do all of that, but will also have the ability to create his own shot late in games. I think they compliment each other greatly.
The Hayward injury really sucks, and I'm having a hard time getting excited for the season, but I have to admit both Brown and Tatum have exceeded my expectations so far this year. If that continues, and we assume Hayward is back to full strength by next year, then our future prospects (beyond this year), look even brighter than they did before game 1. It's just that I as SO LOOKING FORWARD TO A CHANCE AT THE FINALS THIS SEASON. :-\
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I needed an option that they would be 1a and 1b scoring around the same amount and being the top scoring duo!
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Tatum clearly has a more polished offensive game right now, and a much more diversified offensive game. He can hit hard shots and make it look silky smooth. So I went Tatum. That being said it Jaylen has already showed a lot of skill driving and finishing at the hoop along with a decent ability to finish through contact and get a foul. If he can just do that and combine it with a league average or better three point shot he'll be a very goo scorer. The three most efficient shots on the court are at the rim, at the foul line, and from 3 (if you can hit it). He has the potential to have all three in his back pocket. But he doesn't have Tatum's ability to manufacture a shot out of thin air.
TP for the bolded point and it's why I went with Jaylen.
I think both of them will have very good NBA careers and Tatum seems to be a better all-around offensive player, but Jaylen's aggressiveness is going to make him a solid 20 PPG scorer, maybe even this year. He also has a slick turn-around baseline jumper that is impossible to stop.
Our future is really bright.
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Tatum clearly has a more polished offensive game right now, and a much more diversified offensive game. He can hit hard shots and make it look silky smooth. So I went Tatum. That being said it Jaylen has already showed a lot of skill driving and finishing at the hoop along with a decent ability to finish through contact and get a foul. If he can just do that and combine it with a league average or better three point shot he'll be a very goo scorer. The three most efficient shots on the court are at the rim, at the foul line, and from 3 (if you can hit it). He has the potential to have all three in his back pocket. But he doesn't have Tatum's ability to manufacture a shot out of thin air.
TP for the bolded point and it's why I went with Jaylen.
I think both of them will have very good NBA careers and Tatum seems to be a better all-around offensive player, but Jaylen's aggressiveness is going to make him a solid 20 PPG scorer, maybe even this year. He also has a slick turn-around baseline jumper that is impossible to stop.
Our future is really bright.
Fair enough, but just recognize that your assessment seems to be a snapshot-in-time. The question is about potential, and I think the polling shows the correct answer. Jaylen is not efficient enough on his jumper and has even missed some free throws. Teams are eventually going to back off him to guard against the drive, but then foul him hard in hopes he misses some free throws. Now I recognize that so far JB has higher FG% and FT% than JT but I predict that by the end of the season, Jayson will be the more efficient scorer.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018.html
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Smart needs to go to the bench when Morris comes back. I think that would help with spacing a lot , and open up things for both Jaylen and Tatum.
I think there is a lack of secondary ball-handling / playmaking in that lineup with Hayward gone. I don't think they (Jaylen SG, Tatum SF, Morris PF) will be a good combination full time as a starting lineup. It will hurt our ball movement & passing. Horford will do a lot to help in the high post but I'd rather have a 2nd ball-handler on the wing out there with them.
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Tatum wins this argument if we are talking about go to scoring within the flow of a game. His game is silky smooth for a 19 year old. However, my gut still tells me that Jaylen will become the go to scorer when we face adversity in big games. Jaylen wont settle for anything other than greatness. There will eventually be a time that he can get to the line whenever we need a bucket, especially in transition.
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Tatum clearly has a more polished offensive game right now, and a much more diversified offensive game. He can hit hard shots and make it look silky smooth. So I went Tatum. That being said it Jaylen has already showed a lot of skill driving and finishing at the hoop along with a decent ability to finish through contact and get a foul. If he can just do that and combine it with a league average or better three point shot he'll be a very goo scorer. The three most efficient shots on the court are at the rim, at the foul line, and from 3 (if you can hit it). He has the potential to have all three in his back pocket. But he doesn't have Tatum's ability to manufacture a shot out of thin air.
TP for the bolded point and it's why I went with Jaylen.
I think both of them will have very good NBA careers and Tatum seems to be a better all-around offensive player, but Jaylen's aggressiveness is going to make him a solid 20 PPG scorer, maybe even this year. He also has a slick turn-around baseline jumper that is impossible to stop.
Our future is really bright.
Fair enough, but just recognize that your assessment seems to be a snapshot-in-time. The question is about potential, and I think the polling shows the correct answer. Jaylen is not efficient enough on his jumper and has even missed some free throws. Teams are eventually going to back off him to guard against the drive, but then foul him hard in hopes he misses some free throws. Now I recognize that so far JB has higher FG% and FT% than JT but I predict that by the end of the season, Jayson will be the more efficient scorer.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018.html
I know the question is about potential, that's why I referenced Jaylens potential to eventually be good at all three highlighted areas. His three point shot has already improved, he shot 37% after the all star break last year and like 44% from the corners. Time will tell whether that's ultimately indicative of an improved shot, or just a small sample. If he hits his 3 defenders wont be able to back off him and he will take advantage by blowing by them. His free throw percentage does need to improve, but its not like he's Andre Drummond esque from the line.
All that being said I did still pick Tatum. He already has such advanced skills. He has the added bonus of basically being able to create a decent (tho usually difficult) shot whenever he wants, something Brown doesn't have yet and something many players never develop. I do worry that Tatum doesn't have a really explosive first step, he's more smooth than explosive, but I think his body control and length will still allow him to finish in the paint, especially against PF's.
In short, I like both, the fact we have two guys with the potential to be excellent scorers is encouraging.
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I think both do - with Jaylen getting the edge due to his time in the league so far.
I'm more hopeful that one of them SOON start to emulate Gordon Hayward's court savvy, leadership, passing and all-around skill set, though.
Kyrie is being hyped as the face of this franchise (and this is GREAT, to me), but whichever one of these guys can emulate Hayward's TOTAL game THIS will help the team more than scoring.
HUGE shoes to fill but not impossible.
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Tatum clearly has a more polished offensive game right now, and a much more diversified offensive game. He can hit hard shots and make it look silky smooth. So I went Tatum. That being said it Jaylen has already showed a lot of skill driving and finishing at the hoop along with a decent ability to finish through contact and get a foul. If he can just do that and combine it with a league average or better three point shot he'll be a very goo scorer. The three most efficient shots on the court are at the rim, at the foul line, and from 3 (if you can hit it). He has the potential to have all three in his back pocket. But he doesn't have Tatum's ability to manufacture a shot out of thin air.
TP for the bolded point and it's why I went with Jaylen.
I think both of them will have very good NBA careers and Tatum seems to be a better all-around offensive player, but Jaylen's aggressiveness is going to make him a solid 20 PPG scorer, maybe even this year. He also has a slick turn-around baseline jumper that is impossible to stop.
Our future is really bright.
Fair enough, but just recognize that your assessment seems to be a snapshot-in-time. The question is about potential, and I think the polling shows the correct answer. Jaylen is not efficient enough on his jumper and has even missed some free throws. Teams are eventually going to back off him to guard against the drive, but then foul him hard in hopes he misses some free throws. Now I recognize that so far JB has higher FG% and FT% than JT but I predict that by the end of the season, Jayson will be the more efficient scorer.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2018.html
I know the question is about potential, that's why I referenced Jaylens potential to eventually be good at all three highlighted areas. His three point shot has already improved, he shot 37% after the all star break last year and like 44% from the corners. Time will tell whether that's ultimately indicative of an improved shot, or just a small sample. If he hits his 3 defenders wont be able to back off him and he will take advantage by blowing by them. His free throw percentage does need to improve, but its not like he's Andre Drummond esque from the line.
All that being said I did still pick Tatum. He already has such advanced skills. He has the added bonus of basically being able to create a decent (tho usually difficult) shot whenever he wants, something Brown doesn't have yet and something many players never develop. I do worry that Tatum doesn't have a really explosive first step, he's more smooth than explosive, but I think his body control and length will still allow him to finish in the paint, especially against PF's.
In short, I like both, the fact we have two guys with the potential to be excellent scorers is encouraging.
A lot like Paul Pierce. ;)
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5 years down the line, Brown will be an elite transition scorer being almost unstoppable on the fast break much like guys like LeBron and Giannis are now.
Tatum in that same time span will be the one getting the tough shots in a grind it out half court offense.
Agreed. And that sounds like a pretty ideal duo to have on your team!
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Smart needs to go to the bench when Morris comes back. I think that would help with spacing a lot , and open up things for both Jaylen and Tatum.
I think there is a lack of secondary ball-handling / playmaking in that lineup with Hayward gone. I don't think they (Jaylen SG, Tatum SF, Morris PF) will be a good combination full time as a starting lineup. It will hurt our ball movement & passing. Horford will do a lot to help in the high post but I'd rather have a 2nd ball-handler on the wing out there with them.
I think they will be fine and too good to put on the bench if they keep doing what they are doing. We aren’t winning a title this year so letting those two bloom as much as possible is a huge priority. We will definitely miss Hayward’s secondary playmaking but it wouldn’t be as huge of a deal if our starting point guard wasn’t kind of a secondary playmaker himself.
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I wish there was an option for both. Jaylen and Jayson score in different ways and both have strengths and weaknesses. But if you had prime Jimmy Butler on your team and prime Paul Pierce, who is your primary scorer? They score in very different ways but both can be 25+ PPG players. I think in 3 years this team could have 4 primary scorers in Kyrie, Gordon, Brown and Tatum. That's gotta be a scary thought to the rest of the NBA.
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I'll go with Tatum due to his smooth mechanics. Jaylen will be the better all-around player due to his freak athleticism.
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Game is starting to slow down for Jaylon . once his athleticism meets with a nice steady array of knockdown jump shots the kid may go Kobe on some teams . The gap between these sklls should improve with Gordon out. His confidence grows by the game.
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Smart needs to go to the bench when Morris comes back. I think that would help with spacing a lot , and open up things for both Jaylen and Tatum.
I think there is a lack of secondary ball-handling / playmaking in that lineup with Hayward gone. I don't think they (Jaylen SG, Tatum SF, Morris PF) will be a good combination full time as a starting lineup. It will hurt our ball movement & passing. Horford will do a lot to help in the high post but I'd rather have a 2nd ball-handler on the wing out there with them.
I think they will be fine and too good to put on the bench if they keep doing what they are doing. We aren’t winning a title this year so letting those two bloom as much as possible is a huge priority. We will definitely miss Hayward’s secondary playmaking but it wouldn’t be as huge of a deal if our starting point guard wasn’t kind of a secondary playmaker himself.
Yeah, I think you keep Tatum and Jaylen in there as starters (if they continue to play as well as they have started) and instead bring Morris off the bench in order to get that extra guard / ball-handler on the floor.
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tatum potentially has the whole package
jaylen has been awesome to watch but i think will be limited to dunks/drives and 3's overall, not really creating his own shot down the stretch like a go to scorer would.
It’s tatum. Jaylen is great in the open court and a free flowing game but doesn’t have the offensive game to be successful in half court when the defense is geared to stop you.
That's my assessment, as well. TP for both of you :).
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I would have agreed with the Tatum fanboys 4 days ago, but the way that Jaylen has been taking it strong to the basket, over and over and over again, tough layups, drawing fouls; now I'm not so sure.
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I would have agreed with the Tatum fanboys 4 days ago, but the way that Jaylen has been taking it strong to the basket, over and over and over again, tough layups, drawing fouls; now I'm not so sure.
Me, too.
There is no doubt that Tatum has the whole offensive package, but Brown actually has proven he can score against the best this league has to offer, and on his terms.
I agree with nick with the Butler/George comparison and think that Tatum will be a sight to behold in this league, but I also think that people are underrating just how elite Brown's current scoring abilities are already.
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Jaylen has been great going to the hoop, but I still think Tatum has the better offensive potential.
You're asking about three different things. "A go-to scorer" (thread title); "A #1 Scorer" (Poll); and "offensive potential" (your lead post) - different things, and in fact I'd have a different answer for each.
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tatum potentially has the whole package
jaylen has been awesome to watch but i think will be limited to dunks/drives and 3's overall, not really creating his own shot down the stretch like a go to scorer would.
If you have the first step Jaylen does and can get by just about any defender then driving and three is really all you need. I mean getting the ball at the three point lien and driving into the paint for a and-1 is a kind of shot creation. On the other hand I like Tatum's high release and smoothness. the correct answer is both, but they both also have a lot to prove.