What's up with DC movies?

[Roy H.]

The head of Warner Brothers just scrapped the Batgirl movie completely, saying that it wasn't good enough to air, even on HBOMax.  They spent $90 million on it, and it was basically a finished product.

Now, there are rumors that the studio may pull the plug on the Flash movie, mostly because it's star Ezra Miller is a crazy cult leader who may endanger children, plus a lot of other things.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-the-flash-status-warner-bros-explained-battgirl-dc-230251194.html

That's after a string of movies that have pretty much all sucked.  The Joker was good, the Batman was okay, the Peacemaker series was pretty entertaining, and that's about it going back to Christopher Nolan.  (The first Wonder Woman was pretty good, but would have been a below-average Marvel movie.  The sequel sucked.)

How on earth can DC properties be treated so carelessly?  They've got Batman, for God's sake!  How do you invest hundreds of millions of dollars and end up with garbage that's so bad, it won't even be released?

[nickagneta]

Lack of a cohesive vision and overarching storyline. Also, their villains are trash and easily defeated.

[Roy H.]

Oh, and I left out:  Batgirl was supposed to include the return of Michael Keaton as Batman, and the Flash was going to continue that.

How the hell can you mess up the return of Michael Keaton as Batman?

There are no many great Batman arcs, and Keaton would be great in a lot of those stories.  Why are we being fed hot garbage?

Word is that HBOMax is still going forward with its Green Lantern and Constantine series.  Both have cool source material, but based upon what we've seen previously...  more garbage, right?

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

The head of Warner Brothers just scrapped the Batgirl movie completely, saying that it wasn't good enough to air, even on HBOMax.  They spent $90 million on it, and it was basically a finished product.

Now, there are rumors that the studio may pull the plug on the Flash movie, mostly because it's star Ezra Miller is a crazy cult leader who may endanger children, plus a lot of other things.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-the-flash-status-warner-bros-explained-battgirl-dc-230251194.html

That's after a string of movies that have pretty much all sucked.  The Joker was good, the Batman was okay, the Peacemaker series was pretty entertaining, and that's about it going back to Christopher Nolan.  (The first Wonder Woman was pretty good, but would have been a below-average Marvel movie.  The sequel sucked.)

How on earth can DC properties be treated so carelessly?  They've got Batman, for God's sake!  How do you invest hundreds of millions of dollars and end up with garbage that's so bad, it won't even be released?

Though I like and appreciate many DC comics, I've always been a "Marvel guy," so I'm probably biased in my movie reviews ... but I think the MCU is vastly superior to the DCEU in every aspect—writing, directing, casting, you name it.

In fact, I think the dichotomy is so stark that film schools, if they're not already doing this, should be using this situation as an example of how to succeed at creating a broad, coherent cinematic universe vs. how to fail at that. Marvel has done nearly everything right, and DC mostly made the wrong choices. Marvel has someone at the helm (Kevin Feige) who has a coherent, unified, well-thought-out vision, whereas DC has ... I'm not sure? If they even have a Feige counterpart (not sure they do), that person definitely does not have a coherent, unified, well-thought-out vision.

I mean, is DC going to keep rebooting Batman with a different actor every 5-10 years? Is that the plan? The whole DC movie universe is just so haphazard and "thrown together" that it's hard to keep track of what's what.

Marvel, on the other hand, made what I think is a brilliant move by bringing the Tobey Maguire and Andrew Garfield Spider-Men under the MCU umbrella via the multiverse concept—and they pulled that off without even having the movie rights to Spider-Man!

[slamtheking]

Lack of a cohesive vision and overarching storyline. Also, their villains are trash and easily defeated.

have to agree on the cohesive vision aspect.  that's something Marvel did exceptionally well through Endgame.  The last spiderman was fantastic but everything they've done since Endgame with the exception of Spiderman has not been up to their usual standards (haven't seen the latest Thor yet so I can't say firsthand it's lacking that quality). 
- Eternals was ok but story was lacking in terms of introducing a lot of characters that are obscure to all but the diehard Marvel readers
- Morbius just wasn't particularly good, never mind up to Marvel standards
- Dr Strange was a hot mess.  Just don't buy Wanda as a villain and the reasoning was pretty flimsy even if it did piggyback off Wandavision.  only good from it was the possible tie-in of X-Men and Fantastic 4 characters in the future.

I know that's off track from DC but DC has a long way to go to get to even the low end of the Marvel spectrum/quality. 

[Csfan1984]

Heard the flash movie was all complete and pretty good. It's a huge blow not being able to put that movie out after the investment. I would cgi the actor out or cheaper route in pulling a "Michael Keaton style flash point swap" in a final scene reshoot giving us a new flash actor going forward. The movie is too important as far as heroes and villains to let it go to waste.

[kraidstar]

I think Marvel's post-Infinity War content has been mixed, just like DC's.

Ant-Man and the Wasp - mediocre
Captain Marvel - mediocre
Avengers Endgame - excellent
Spider-man Far from Home - mediocre
Ex-Mutants (Sony) - bad
Venom (Sony) - mediocre
Black Widow - above average
Shang-Chi - very good
Eternals - good
Venom 2 (Sony) - terrible
Spiderman: No Way Home - excellent
Morbius (Sony) - terrible
Dr. Strange 2 - good
Thor Love and Thunder - bad
WandaVision TV - excellent
Hawkeye TV - good
Loki TV - excellent
Falcon and Winter Soldier - above average
Moon Knight TV - haven't watched, heard it's good
Ms Marvel TV - haven't watched, heard it's very good
MODOK TV - haven't watched, heard it's good


DC movies/shows during roughly the same timeframe:

Aquaman - above average
Shazam! - excellent
Joker - excellent
Birds of Prey - bad
Wonder Woman 1984 - bad
the Suicide Squad - very good
The Batman - excellent
Doom Patrol TV - very good
Watchmen TV - excellent
Harley Quinn TV - very good
Titans TV - mediocre
Stargirl TV - good
Superman and Lois - good
Peacemaker TV - excellent
Swamp Thing TV - haven't seen it but I hear it's great

I think the problem with DC stuff isn't the quality - it's just less-interconnected than Marvel's in both story and tone, which can be confusing or offputting to viewers. But that is a strength as well. Joker, Shazam, Watchmen, Harley Quinn, Doom Patrol, The Batman, Superman and Lois, the Suicide Squad/Peacemaker, Swamp Thing are all VERY different stylistically. But all those movies/shows are at least decent, and some of them are quite thought-provoking.

Shazam, WWI+2, Aquaman, and Justice League all feel like Marvel knock-offs, with varying success. The other stuff not so much. DC's issue is that they tried to launch those core films as the next MCEU but didn't put enough time into developing the individual characters before throwing them together.

So while I think DC has made some fine art and entertainment lately, they have failed in their quest for a core cinematic unified universe. It's something that Warner-Discovery CEO Zaslav wants to fix. I just hope he doesn't throw out the baby with the bathwater, as I'd love to see the Doom Patrol mix it up with Batman, the Suicide Squad, the JSA (which will be in Black Adam), or whoever.

Keep in mind though, people, that DC pretty much invented the comics multi-verse concept, even if Spiderman No Way home kinda beat them to the punch. There are ways most of these characters could end up on the screen in some very compelling and humorous ways.

[kraidstar]

The head of Warner Brothers just scrapped the Batgirl movie completely, saying that it wasn't good enough to air, even on HBOMax.  They spent $90 million on it, and it was basically a finished product.

Now, there are rumors that the studio may pull the plug on the Flash movie, mostly because it's star Ezra Miller is a crazy cult leader who may endanger children, plus a lot of other things.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/ezra-miller-the-flash-status-warner-bros-explained-battgirl-dc-230251194.html

That's after a string of movies that have pretty much all sucked.  The Joker was good, the Batman was okay, the Peacemaker series was pretty entertaining, and that's about it going back to Christopher Nolan.  (The first Wonder Woman was pretty good, but would have been a below-average Marvel movie.  The sequel sucked.)

How on earth can DC properties be treated so carelessly?  They've got Batman, for God's sake!  How do you invest hundreds of millions of dollars and end up with garbage that's so bad, it won't even be released?

WB said a couple days ago they are still moving forward with the Green Lantern TV show, which should be awesome. Most casual viewers don't know much about GL except for the 2012 Ryan Reynolds bore-fest, but that franchise has some of the deepest and versatile lore of any comic book property.

Agree about the Ezra Miller conundrum though. The guy just got charged the other day with a burglary near his (likely illegal) pot ranch and cult retreat in Vermont. Allegedly there were guns strewn about the house with small children present. He's a maniac for sure. Kevin Smith called him the "Reverse-Flash," which is sadly accurate.

Normally he'd be toast by now but WB has invested $200M into the Flash 2023, and, as you noted, it will mark Keaton's return as Batman. They are in a real tough spot here, their past indecision about Miller has really cost them.

As Kevin Smith noted, it's a bad look shelving the nearly-complete Batgirl movie (possibly for tax reasons) while letting "Flash" move on ahead with an actual criminal playing the hero. Poor Michael Keaton, man. He deserves better than this. But the Flash is a movie about multiple dimensions. Should be easy to work in an ending that replaces Miller with another Flash.

On a more positive front, Duane Johnson seems hell-bent on having his Black Adam character fight Superman and disrupt the DCEU. Maybe his zeal (and ego) will help things get back on the right track.

[Celtics4ever]

As Kevin Smith noted, it's a bad look shelving the nearly-complete Batgirl movie (possibly for tax reasons) while letting "Flash" move on ahead with an actual criminal playing the hero. Poor Michael Keaton, man. He deserves better than this. But the Flash is a movie about multiple dimensions. Should be easy to work in an ending that replaces Miller with another Flash.

Flash has always been a more popular comic than Batgirl though save during the Yvonne Craig Era.  The CW show did a lot of damage to the Batgirl brand especially season 1 it was nigh unwatcheable

10 year comparisons

+ 80.2% - Hellblazer
+ 55.5% - Aquaman
+ 44.6% - Batman
+ 33.4% - Nightwing
+ 16.9% - Flash
+ 10.6% - Green Arrow
+  6.3% - Scooby-Doo Where Are You?
+  4.5% - Hal Jordan & the Green Lantern Corps (GLC)
-  2.9% - Superman
-  8.3% - Batgirl & Birds of Prey (Birds of Prey)

Almost twice as popular.

https://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-chart-january-2017-comic-readers-vs-gratuitous-rebirth-one-shots/

[Roy H.]

WB said a couple days ago they are still moving forward with the Green Lantern TV show, which should be awesome. Most casual viewers don't know much about GL except for the 2012 Ryan Reynolds bore-fest, but that franchise has some of the deepest and versatile lore of any comic book property.

If I could bring any storyline to the big screen, it would probably be Blackest Night.  It's pretty much impossible with all the heroes, but man would that be awesome.

Second would probably be an R-rated / NC-17 rated Carnage arch.

[johnnygreen]

I go see all the DC and MCU movies on Thursday, the day before the official premier. I remember going to see Batman v Superman and being blown away and absolutely loving it. When I read the reviews the next day, I was shocked by the negative reviews.

About a month later, Captain America: Civil War came out and the reviews were almost universally positive. However, I left the theater thinking it was one of the worst (and pointless) movies I had ever seen. Sometimes the comics don't translate well onto the screen. They may as well just played pat-a-cake during the airport scene.

[johnnygreen]

As far as the TV shows go, Peacemaker is hands down the best of them all. I would say Superman and Lois, is my second favorite. The Disney+ MCU shows don't seem necessary and have been disappointing. My favorite of the Disney+ shows has been (to my surprise) Hawkeye.

[johnnygreen]

Regarding the movies, what the MCU has done collectively, has been impressive. However, the movies individually, are lacking replay value. I would argue most of the connective ties in the MCU have to do with post credit scenes.

Individually, I think the DC movies are superior, and have more replay value.

The MCU seems more concerned with the amount of content, and not necessarily the quality. Have you read about the people who work on the CGI for the MCU? Their lives are miserable because of the work demands that Disney is imploring.

DC has not been afraid of holding movies back since the Justice League disaster because they don't want to cut corners. So if the CGI isn't ready, the movie gets delayed. On the other hand, the MCU will just release the movie, regardless of the CGI.

[Kernewek]

How do you invest hundreds of millions of dollars and end up with garbage that's so bad, it won't even be released?

That's the nature of the beast, unfortunately. Being held hostage by Zack Snyder's twitter bot army doesn't help either (if you haven't read this, it might shine some light on the dysfunction behind some of these properties and Warner Bros):
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-features/justice-league-the-snyder-cut-bots-fans-1384231/

[Birdman]

I’m a huge DC guy..think they going to do what Marvel did with a 10 year run of movies to set up a finale like Marvel did with Thanos…Darkseid will be the main villian would be my guess