The last three roster spots will be determined in training camp

[Vermont Green]

So after 1 preseason game, the addition of Griffin, and an injury to Kornet, things have been shuffled some.  We now have 13 signed to regular season contracts but Kornet is barely guaranteed and we may get granted a DPE for Gallinari.  This means that there could be between 0 and 4 additional signings.  My understanding is that you need min 12 active and 1 inactive so as few as 13.  With RWill and Gallinari inactive, they could get to 12 taking a 2-way and making them active (Probably Kabengele).  But more likely, they add at least 1 more, probably 2 more, and maybe as many as 3 or 4 more.

My earlier prediction was they would sign a vet min FA big, which they did, but I never expected it to be Blake Griffin.  I also predicted Noah Vonleh would make it and I also predicted Luka Samanic would get a spot. And I predicted Thomas with either Kornet cut or Gallinari being DPE.  Based on Preseason game 1, Kabengele got more run than Samanic so it is possible that Kabangele gets promoted and Samanic gets offered a 2-way, so that would kind of keep to my prediction.

Not sure what to make of Vonleh.  He got some good numbers but also fouled a lot.  I didn't see the game but most of the comments were that he didn't look great.  To me, he should be able to beat out Kornet and/or Kabengele but we shall see.  He is not going to make it without working for it and he may not have that kind of motor.  Hard to believe you could be this close to in or out of the NBA and you don't absolutely fight for it.

[Roy H.]

So after 1 preseason game, the addition of Griffin, and an injury to Kornet, things have been shuffled some.  We now have 13 signed to regular season contracts but Kornet is barely guaranteed and we may get granted a DPE for Gallinari.  This means that there could be between 0 and 4 additional signings.  My understanding is that you need min 12 active and 1 inactive so as few as 13.  With RWill and Gallinari inactive, they could get to 12 taking a 2-way and making them active (Probably Kabengele).  But more likely, they add at least 1 more, probably 2 more, and maybe as many as 3 or 4 more.

My earlier prediction was they would sign a vet min FA big, which they did, but I never expected it to be Blake Griffin.  I also predicted Noah Vonleh would make it and I also predicted Luka Samanic would get a spot. And I predicted Thomas with either Kornet cut or Gallinari being DPE.  Based on Preseason game 1, Kabengele got more run than Samanic so it is possible that Kabangele gets promoted and Samanic gets offered a 2-way, so that would kind of keep to my prediction.

Not sure what to make of Vonleh.  He got some good numbers but also fouled a lot.  I didn't see the game but most of the comments were that he didn't look great.  To me, he should be able to beat out Kornet and/or Kabengele but we shall see.  He is not going to make it without working for it and he may not have that kind of motor.  Hard to believe you could be this close to in or out of the NBA and you don't absolutely fight for it.

A couple of things:

1.  You don't get an extra slot for the DPE.  The max number of players on the regular roster is 15, with or without the DPE;

2.  The minimum number of players a team can have is 14, although I believe they can carry 13 for up to a two-week period (I'm sure C2021 has the language here.)

I agree with you on Kabengele.  But, it may not make sense to promote him now.  He's under team control this season, and the only reason to promote him (other than as a reward) is if we need him in the playoffs.  That decision can wait.  If we're going to sign him to a NBA deal, the team may wish to ideally wait until the off-season, when at least in theory we could sign him to a four year deal using the MLE.  (Again, I defer to C2021 regarding the best way to accomplish this; preferably we'd eventually sign him to a Hauser contract).

I also agree that with Timelord down, we need another big, and I'm not sure that that big is Vonleh.  I don't mind him as a 14th or 15th man.  I'm holding out hope for Derrick Favors to be waived, although my pessimistic side says he'll sign in Brooklyn.

[Vermont Green]

So after 1 preseason game, the addition of Griffin, and an injury to Kornet, things have been shuffled some.  We now have 13 signed to regular season contracts but Kornet is barely guaranteed and we may get granted a DPE for Gallinari.  This means that there could be between 0 and 4 additional signings.  My understanding is that you need min 12 active and 1 inactive so as few as 13.  With RWill and Gallinari inactive, they could get to 12 taking a 2-way and making them active (Probably Kabengele).  But more likely, they add at least 1 more, probably 2 more, and maybe as many as 3 or 4 more.

My earlier prediction was they would sign a vet min FA big, which they did, but I never expected it to be Blake Griffin.  I also predicted Noah Vonleh would make it and I also predicted Luka Samanic would get a spot. And I predicted Thomas with either Kornet cut or Gallinari being DPE.  Based on Preseason game 1, Kabengele got more run than Samanic so it is possible that Kabangele gets promoted and Samanic gets offered a 2-way, so that would kind of keep to my prediction.

Not sure what to make of Vonleh.  He got some good numbers but also fouled a lot.  I didn't see the game but most of the comments were that he didn't look great.  To me, he should be able to beat out Kornet and/or Kabengele but we shall see.  He is not going to make it without working for it and he may not have that kind of motor.  Hard to believe you could be this close to in or out of the NBA and you don't absolutely fight for it.

A couple of things:

1.  You don't get an extra slot for the DPE.  The max number of players on the regular roster is 15, with or without the DPE;

2.  The minimum number of players a team can have is 14, although I believe they can carry 13 for up to a two-week period (I'm sure C2021 has the language here.)

I agree with you on Kabengele.  But, it may not make sense to promote him now.  He's under team control this season, and the only reason to promote him (other than as a reward) is if we need him in the playoffs.  That decision can wait.  If we're going to sign him to a NBA deal, the team may wish to ideally wait until the off-season, when at least in theory we could sign him to a four year deal using the MLE.  (Again, I defer to C2021 regarding the best way to accomplish this; preferably we'd eventually sign him to a Hauser contract).

I also agree that with Timelord down, we need another big, and I'm not sure that that big is Vonleh.  I don't mind him as a 14th or 15th man.  I'm holding out hope for Derrick Favors to be waived, although my pessimistic side says he'll sign in Brooklyn.

OK, thanks for clarifying that.  I had that wrong.  So if they want to add more than 2, they would have to cut Kornet.

I still feel that Vonleh is the most likely one to be added as the 14th slot, but only if he is hungry for it.  It is no surprise that they added 1 vet min big, but I would be surprised if they added a second without cutting Kornet but who knows.  I am not sure there is going to be all that much difference between Griffin, Kornet, Vonleh, Favors, whoever in the end.  Vonleh is a career 5 pts/5 rebs in 17 min and at 27 years old, should be getting better.  Favors has been no better in the last couple of seasons and is probably only getting worse.  Griffin might produce a little more but can't be expected for a full season.  And Kornet, well, he is Kornet.  The team seems to like Kornet.  They must see something I don't.  I guess reliability.

[Roy H.]

I am not sure there is going to be all that much difference between Griffin, Kornet, Vonleh, Favors, whoever in the end.  Vonleh is a career 5 pts/5 rebs in 17 min and at 27 years old, should be getting better.  Favors has been no better in the last couple of seasons and is probably only getting worse.

It's not about counting numbers.  Favors is a very good defender and just a smart player who knows where he should be on the court.  There's no great way to measure "points saved", but Favors is quite a bit better there than any of the other options.  Out of every option we've had a realistic shot at -- including Boogie, Whiteside and D12 -- Favors is the one guy who can defend in space.

[Vermont Green]

I am not sure there is going to be all that much difference between Griffin, Kornet, Vonleh, Favors, whoever in the end.  Vonleh is a career 5 pts/5 rebs in 17 min and at 27 years old, should be getting better.  Favors has been no better in the last couple of seasons and is probably only getting worse.

It's not about counting numbers.  Favors is a very good defender and just a smart player who knows where he should be on the court.  There's no great way to measure "points saved", but Favors is quite a bit better there than any of the other options.  Out of every option we've had a realistic shot at -- including Boogie, Whiteside and D12 -- Favors is the one guy who can defend in space.

Not sure we disagree but say it is Favors over Vonleh or Kornet, how much different is the team really?  Especially once RWill is back.  I would say the best case from my perspective would be Favors in, Kornet released, Vonleh in the "prospect/project" slot.  Favors/Griffin/Vonleh would be the 4th, 5th, and 6th bigs (the order may change or there will be injuries) on the team once RWill is back.  That is better than Griffin/Vonleh/Kornet, and better is good, but does it change how we seed for the playoffs or how far we go?  I guess maybe, but it seems I see less in Favors than you do.

So if Favors is released, go get him.  I am all for it.

[nickagneta]

Seems strange that some consider Kornet as having no developmental upside, but that Vonleh does. Not saying you specifically VG, but I have seen others say this.

And yet, Kornet is only 1 month older than Vonleh.

So, IMO, both are either who they are currently as players or both have some additional upside. I think both are about the same quality of player and that only one should be on the roster opening night. 

[Roy H.]

Seems strange that some consider Kornet as having no developmental upside, but that Vonleh does. Not saying you specifically VG, but I have seen others say this.

And yet, Kornet is only 1 month older than Vonleh.

So, IMO, both are either who they are currently as players or both have some additional upside. I think both are about the same quality of player and that only one should be on the roster opening night.

I pretty much agree.  To me, both are essentially 4th string players.  In baseball, they'd be called AAAA -- somewhere between Triple-A and the big leagues.

[liam]

Seems strange that some consider Kornet as having no developmental upside, but that Vonleh does. Not saying you specifically VG, but I have seen others say this.

And yet, Kornet is only 1 month older than Vonleh.

So, IMO, both are either who they are currently as players or both have some additional upside. I think both are about the same quality of player and that only one should be on the roster opening night.

Either of those guys can play the limited role we need from that spot.

[Vermont Green]

Seems strange that some consider Kornet as having no developmental upside, but that Vonleh does. Not saying you specifically VG, but I have seen others say this.

And yet, Kornet is only 1 month older than Vonleh.

So, IMO, both are either who they are currently as players or both have some additional upside. I think both are about the same quality of player and that only one should be on the roster opening night.

I understand this point, Vonleh is 27, Kabengele is 25, Kornet is 27 none of them are all that young (Rob Williams is 24 for comparison), but Vonleh started 57 games for the Knicks just a couple of seasons ago and played more than well enough in that role to be a bench player on a good team.  That is a benchmark or track record that Kornet can't match.  Vonleh displayed tools that Kornet has never displayed and will never display.  Maybe the better way to say it is that Vonleh is more of a reclamation project than a prospect.

Now this doesn't mean that Vonleh is going to display the necessary heart to get himself back into the league but if he does, I see more upside with him than Kornet.  Kornet on the other hand is probably more reliable.  He is going to give you want he can give you and play with heart every time you put him out there (which generally isn't all that often).  And there is something to be said for that as well.

I am hopeful that Vonleh will come out with some fire and out play Kornet and also offer more upside than Kornet.  But until he does it, it is nothing more than hope or promise.  So I don't disagree with the point.  I am just hopeful that Vonleh will outplay Kornet.  There is a lot of conjecture in my thinking but I have the sense that Vonleh viewed himself as a stretch PF and he isn't.  But if he accepts and applies himself to being a dunk and D center, I think he has a much better chance to succeed and specifically provide something that Celtics need right now.  If he wants to be a stretch PF, he will be back in China but if he is willing to focus on defense and rebounding and pick and dunk and so on, that is his ticket back to the NBA.

[Yuckabuck33]

I just don’t see anything that Kornet can give them as a regular rotation player or a player off the bench. He’s g league level. Frankly he sucks.

I mean now they start him? Give me a break. He is going to get torched. I really wish he wasn’t on this team or would do us all a favor and quit. Can’t stand him and watching him play is embarrassing.

He’s 27 and has shown ZERO while in the league. All of sudden he is worthy of real minutes?

I’d rather play Tatum at the 4 and brogdan start than see Kornet meander around the court, miss shots, get pushed around and lumber up and down the court.

Yeah.  If we want outside shooting from our center, you compare him to a guy like Boogie.  The only area Kornet might be slightly better is pick-and-roll defense.  Cousins is a better scorer, passer, shooter, rim protector, each by a wide margin.  And, Boogie just showed out against the Warriors in the playoffs.

And, if you want a defender, rim-runner and rebounder, he's greatly exceeded by Whiteside and Howard (although I never will truly embrace Howard, as I think he's a clown.)

Kornet fills the "good guy on the bench" role, but actually playing basketball?  I don't see it.

Never understood why Brad didn’t bring in boogie. And I don’t want to hear about the lockerroom.

THIS is why Brad never brought in Boogie: (from ESPN 2017)
"But an asset as valuable as Cousins requires constant due diligence by NBA front offices. One such team meets from time to time to view game film of Cousins, and those watching are tantalized by what they see -- the agility combined with force, the soft touch, the capacity to either bully or dance around any profile of defender, big or small. Yet each time they evaluate whether it's worth mobilizing the organization's assets to make a push to acquire Cousins, they return to the same dilemma.

When this front office breaks down a Cousins game, it invariably finds half a dozen possessions per game when he sabotages the Kings. Sometimes it's not getting back on defense because he has overdramatized a fall on a drive. Sometimes it's an ill-advised shot early in the possession whose only explanation is acting out against a noncall or an incorrect call. Sometimes it's a missed opportunity for a teammate because Cousins has clearly broken off a play.

This team needs no further persuasion on Cousins' skill set. It's reasonably assured he's a good-hearted person who has manageable behavioral issues that fall within the bounds of the normal human experience. But it's not sure it wants to pay the Cousins tax -- that 6 or 7 percent of possessions that not only take a team out of its offensive or defensive rhythm but whose negative outcomes can crush its collective spirit."
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/presents2/is-demarcus-cousins-sacramento-kings-real-problem

Yes, the article is from 2017. But I would bet money that the unnamed front office was the Celtics. Around the time this came out, Brad was constantly mentioning in interviews the importance of valuing every possession.

They like the skillz, but they don't want to pay the Cousins tax. I guarantee Brad will never bring in Boogie. And it's not because of the locker room or Brad only wants choir boys.
 

[Roy H.]

I just don’t see anything that Kornet can give them as a regular rotation player or a player off the bench. He’s g league level. Frankly he sucks.

I mean now they start him? Give me a break. He is going to get torched. I really wish he wasn’t on this team or would do us all a favor and quit. Can’t stand him and watching him play is embarrassing.

He’s 27 and has shown ZERO while in the league. All of sudden he is worthy of real minutes?

I’d rather play Tatum at the 4 and brogdan start than see Kornet meander around the court, miss shots, get pushed around and lumber up and down the court.

Yeah.  If we want outside shooting from our center, you compare him to a guy like Boogie.  The only area Kornet might be slightly better is pick-and-roll defense.  Cousins is a better scorer, passer, shooter, rim protector, each by a wide margin.  And, Boogie just showed out against the Warriors in the playoffs.

And, if you want a defender, rim-runner and rebounder, he's greatly exceeded by Whiteside and Howard (although I never will truly embrace Howard, as I think he's a clown.)

Kornet fills the "good guy on the bench" role, but actually playing basketball?  I don't see it.

Never understood why Brad didn’t bring in boogie. And I don’t want to hear about the lockerroom.

THIS is why Brad never brought in Boogie: (from ESPN 2017)
"But an asset as valuable as Cousins requires constant due diligence by NBA front offices. One such team meets from time to time to view game film of Cousins, and those watching are tantalized by what they see -- the agility combined with force, the soft touch, the capacity to either bully or dance around any profile of defender, big or small. Yet each time they evaluate whether it's worth mobilizing the organization's assets to make a push to acquire Cousins, they return to the same dilemma.

When this front office breaks down a Cousins game, it invariably finds half a dozen possessions per game when he sabotages the Kings. Sometimes it's not getting back on defense because he has overdramatized a fall on a drive. Sometimes it's an ill-advised shot early in the possession whose only explanation is acting out against a noncall or an incorrect call. Sometimes it's a missed opportunity for a teammate because Cousins has clearly broken off a play.

This team needs no further persuasion on Cousins' skill set. It's reasonably assured he's a good-hearted person who has manageable behavioral issues that fall within the bounds of the normal human experience. But it's not sure it wants to pay the Cousins tax -- that 6 or 7 percent of possessions that not only take a team out of its offensive or defensive rhythm but whose negative outcomes can crush its collective spirit."
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/presents2/is-demarcus-cousins-sacramento-kings-real-problem

Yes, the article is from 2017. But I would bet money that the unnamed front office was the Celtics. Around the time this came out, Brad was constantly mentioning in interviews the importance of valuing every possession.

They like the skillz, but they don't want to pay the Cousins tax. I guarantee Brad will never bring in Boogie. And it's not because of the locker room or Brad only wants choir boys.

It wasn’t the Celtics.  The organization doesn’t leak information like that.

And, there is a gigantic difference between paying DMC $30 million per year, versus the veteran minimum.

[Big333223]

I think Griffin is going to have a bounce-back year. In this defensive culture, on a team with some more willing passers, I think he's going to fit in a lot better and have a nice impact for 15 minutes a night.

If that happens, the Kornet/Vonleh/Kabengele question is about who the 5th big/3rd string center will be on a team that's built to play a lot of small ball. Health questions abound, so it's worth some level of concern but not much.

[Celtics4ever]

I understand this point, Vonleh is 27, Kabengele is 25, Kornet is 27 none of them are all that young (Rob Williams is 24 for comparison), but Vonleh started 57 games for the Knicks just a couple of seasons ago and played more than well enough in that role to be a bench player on a good team.  That is a benchmark or track record that Kornet can't match.  Vonleh displayed tools that Kornet has never displayed and will never display.  Maybe the better way to say it is that Vonleh is more of a reclamation project than a prospect.

Now this doesn't mean that Vonleh is going to display the necessary heart to get himself back into the league but if he does, I see more upside with him than Kornet.  Kornet on the other hand is probably more reliable.  He is going to give you want he can give you and play with heart every time you put him out there (which generally isn't all that often).  And there is something to be said for that as well.

I am hopeful that Vonleh will come out with some fire and out play Kornet and also offer more upside than Kornet

Me too, I never understood why we signed Kornet.   Also, Kabengele showed more in one preseason game than Kornet has his whole career.  More effort and drive and better on D.     Luke can shoot better, though but even when he is giving you all he has got it's not much in terms of D and rebounds.   Kabengele could give you effort and more athletic ability with more lob threat and defensive mobility.

I 'd like to see us get a back up wing, too.   But as we are a title team we need more guys who an play and less of the sign him because he is a good guy stuff.

[sgrogan]

Seems strange that some consider Kornet as having no developmental upside, but that Vonleh does. Not saying you specifically VG, but I have seen others say this.

And yet, Kornet is only 1 month older than Vonleh.

So, IMO, both are either who they are currently as players or both have some additional upside. I think both are about the same quality of player and that only one should be on the roster opening night.

I understand this point, Vonleh is 27, Kabengele is 25, Kornet is 27 none of them are all that young (Rob Williams is 24 for comparison), but Vonleh started 57 games for the Knicks just a couple of seasons ago and played more than well enough in that role to be a bench player on a good team.  That is a benchmark or track record that Kornet can't match.  Vonleh displayed tools that Kornet has never displayed and will never display.  Maybe the better way to say it is that Vonleh is more of a reclamation project than a prospect.
Kornet was on the same Knicks team as Vonleh. https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=kornelu01&p1yrfrom=2019&player_id2=vonleno01&p2yrfrom=2019



Now this doesn't mean that Vonleh is going to display the necessary heart to get himself back into the league but if he does, I see more upside with him than Kornet.  Kornet on the other hand is probably more reliable.  He is going to give you want he can give you and play with heart every time you put him out there (which generally isn't all that often).  And there is something to be said for that as well.

I am hopeful that Vonleh will come out with some fire and out play Kornet and also offer more upside than Kornet.  But until he does it, it is nothing more than hope or promise.  So I don't disagree with the point.  I am just hopeful that Vonleh will outplay Kornet.  There is a lot of conjecture in my thinking but I have the sense that Vonleh viewed himself as a stretch PF and he isn't.  But if he accepts and applies himself to being a dunk and D center, I think he has a much better chance to succeed and specifically provide something that Celtics need right now.  If he wants to be a stretch PF, he will be back in China but if he is willing to focus on defense and rebounding and pick and dunk and so on, that is his ticket back to the NBA.

[sgrogan]

Seems strange that some consider Kornet as having no developmental upside, but that Vonleh does. Not saying you specifically VG, but I have seen others say this.

And yet, Kornet is only 1 month older than Vonleh.

So, IMO, both are either who they are currently as players or both have some additional upside. I think both are about the same quality of player and that only one should be on the roster opening night.

I understand this point, Vonleh is 27, Kabengele is 25, Kornet is 27 none of them are all that young (Rob Williams is 24 for comparison), but Vonleh started 57 games for the Knicks just a couple of seasons ago and played more than well enough in that role to be a bench player on a good team.  That is a benchmark or track record that Kornet can't match.  Vonleh displayed tools that Kornet has never displayed and will never display.  Maybe the better way to say it is that Vonleh is more of a reclamation project than a prospect.




Now this doesn't mean that Vonleh is going to display the necessary heart to get himself back into the league but if he does, I see more upside with him than Kornet.  Kornet on the other hand is probably more reliable.  He is going to give you want he can give you and play with heart every time you put him out there (which generally isn't all that often).  And there is something to be said for that as well.

I am hopeful that Vonleh will come out with some fire and out play Kornet and also offer more upside than Kornet.  But until he does it, it is nothing more than hope or promise.  So I don't disagree with the point.  I am just hopeful that Vonleh will outplay Kornet.  There is a lot of conjecture in my thinking but I have the sense that Vonleh viewed himself as a stretch PF and he isn't.  But if he accepts and applies himself to being a dunk and D center, I think he has a much better chance to succeed and specifically provide something that Celtics need right now.  If he wants to be a stretch PF, he will be back in China but if he is willing to focus on defense and rebounding and pick and dunk and so on, that is his ticket back to the NBA.

Kornet was on the same Knicks team as Vonleh. https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1=kornelu01&p1yrfrom=2019&player_id2=vonleno01&p2yrfrom=2019