Is Tatum better than Pierce?

[pokeKingCurtis]

I was a Ray Allen fan and through him became a fan of the C's. Something about being able to destroy your opponents with jumpshots that really appealed to me at the time.

But Pierce's elbow jumper was automatic. Tatum doesn't have that now for whatever reason.

When the C's played the Suns earlier this season, again the C's got into an early deficit - Chris Paul was able to nail jumpers whenever the C's tried to get close. Blowout loss.

The mid-range jumper is not efficient, but basketball is not played on spreadsheets by machines. Free the mid-range shots for the Jays for god's sakes.

Yeah I think this highlighted bit hits me.

There's some teams/people that have a shot that's "automatic".

And the only one on our team at the moment, that doesn't make me clench my cheeks when they heave up a shot, is JRich's midrange jumper.

No they just chuck 3's.

Either they do it properly, and have monster 3 point shooters like James Harden or Eric Gordon (or Ryan Anderson in those earlier Rockets, who shot from basically half court), or do something different.

[Walker Wiggle]

This is a great question by the OP. For those of us who watched a young Pierce and remember that stage of his career, it’s easy to look back in hindsight with nostalgia and think that Pierce was better. The truth is, Tatum is way ahead of him at this age.

I don’t know what the stats say, but in Pierce I remember a player that was one of the most talented offensive players in the league but turned the ball over too much and couldn’t quite put it all together. Until that run under Jim O’Brien, he was seen mostly as an “empty calories” scorer and a not necessarily a player that knew how to win. I think he’s honestly more comparable to Jaylen Brown at the stage, though Jaylen didn’t have the polish on his offensive game quite like Pierce.

What changed for Pierce to become the “winner” we all think of today? Two things: the passage of time and better players around him. It’s going to be no different with Tatum and Brown. Players like this just don’t know how to win at this stage of their careers, especially without other great players around to support them.

[Big333223]

The thing I remember about Pierce was that I never counted him out of a game. I don't know how many comebacks he led. He was a Big Shot maker but he was also an expert of hitting singles. The elbow jumper others have mentioned, the strength to get into the basket for easy ones, and, of course, getting himself to the free throw line.

That's the biggest difference between Pierce and Tatum. Pierce wasn't as talented as guys like Kobe or Vince or other NBA starts so when his shot wasn't falling, he couldn't just out-athlete his opponent. He had to find a different way. His ability to get himself to the line and use that to get himself into rhythm was a huge strength for him.

For all of Tatum's talent (I'd say he's more talented than Pierce was) if things aren't going his way, it seems like he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't know how to right the ship if things start out badly and he doesn't know how to get himself easy stuff to get into rhythm.

So... Tatum is more talented but Pierce was the better player. But who knows what Tatum's peak will be.

[Kiorrik]

The thing I remember about Pierce was that I never counted him out of a game. I don't know how many comebacks he led. He was a Big Shot maker but he was also an expert of hitting singles. The elbow jumper others have mentioned, the strength to get into the basket for easy ones, and, of course, getting himself to the free throw line.

That's the biggest difference between Pierce and Tatum. Pierce wasn't as talented as guys like Kobe or Vince or other NBA starts so when his shot wasn't falling, he couldn't just out-athlete his opponent. He had to find a different way. His ability to get himself to the line and use that to get himself into rhythm was a huge strength for him.

For all of Tatum's talent (I'd say he's more talented than Pierce was) if things aren't going his way, it seems like he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't know how to right the ship if things start out badly and he doesn't know how to get himself easy stuff to get into rhythm.

So... Tatum is more talented but Pierce was the better player. But who knows what Tatum's peak will be.

Yeah - I always thought of Pierce as the guy to "try again - but try HARDER."

Tatum's more the "scowl at the refs" kind.

[snively]

When comparing stats you have to recognize the difference in eras.

Pierce played in a more defensive league with a lot more beef in the middle and more physical defenders on the wing. If he came into this version of the league he likely would have been a more efficient scorer and playmaker from the jump.

[moiso]

The thing I remember about Pierce was that I never counted him out of a game. I don't know how many comebacks he led. He was a Big Shot maker but he was also an expert of hitting singles. The elbow jumper others have mentioned, the strength to get into the basket for easy ones, and, of course, getting himself to the free throw line.

That's the biggest difference between Pierce and Tatum. Pierce wasn't as talented as guys like Kobe or Vince or other NBA starts so when his shot wasn't falling, he couldn't just out-athlete his opponent. He had to find a different way. His ability to get himself to the line and use that to get himself into rhythm was a huge strength for him.

For all of Tatum's talent (I'd say he's more talented than Pierce was) if things aren't going his way, it seems like he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't know how to right the ship if things start out badly and he doesn't know how to get himself easy stuff to get into rhythm.

So... Tatum is more talented but Pierce was the better player. But who knows what Tatum's peak will be.

Yeah - I always thought of Pierce as the guy to "try again - but try HARDER."

Tatum's more the "scowl at the refs" kind.

great post.  The scowling at the refs kind of frames it like things are beyond Tatum's control.  I'd prefer him to get mad at another player or the other team but Tatum always just plays his game and gives the refs his reactions.

[pokeKingCurtis]

The thing I remember about Pierce was that I never counted him out of a game. I don't know how many comebacks he led. He was a Big Shot maker but he was also an expert of hitting singles. The elbow jumper others have mentioned, the strength to get into the basket for easy ones, and, of course, getting himself to the free throw line.

That's the biggest difference between Pierce and Tatum. Pierce wasn't as talented as guys like Kobe or Vince or other NBA starts so when his shot wasn't falling, he couldn't just out-athlete his opponent. He had to find a different way. His ability to get himself to the line and use that to get himself into rhythm was a huge strength for him.

For all of Tatum's talent (I'd say he's more talented than Pierce was) if things aren't going his way, it seems like he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't know how to right the ship if things start out badly and he doesn't know how to get himself easy stuff to get into rhythm.

So... Tatum is more talented but Pierce was the better player. But who knows what Tatum's peak will be.

Yeah - I always thought of Pierce as the guy to "try again - but try HARDER."

Tatum's more the "scowl at the refs" kind.

great post.  The scowling at the refs kind of frames it like things are beyond Tatum's control.  I'd prefer him to get mad at another player or the other team but Tatum always just plays his game and gives the refs his reactions.

I feel like Pierce had swagger, it wasn't just about trying hard.

Didn't get a foul last trip on a drive? How about I make a g.d. jumper. Can't stop that. Team isn't doing it - scores a 30-burger and leads the team spiritually.

I suppose that's why some people think Tatum won't ever take us to the promised land (I'd disagree though, I think this can be learned).

And if Pierce could play in this era, man. It's like James Harden plus heart (not to discount Harden - KD/Kyrie could very well be to Harden what KG/Ray was to Pierce). Dude was spraying those 3's at will, and wing players are handling the rock more and more, and small ball...

[SHAQATTACK]

Not till he hangs a banner .

[Csfan1984]

I miss how vocal Pierce was. How he would just put his foot down and tell guys he was going to go off, that the game wasn't over. Even in the Walker era C's could hit another gear.

[Big333223]

I miss how vocal Pierce was. How he would just put his foot down and tell guys he was going to go off, that the game wasn't over. Even in the Walker era C's could hit another gear.

It's worth remembering though (at least this is how I remember it) that early in Pierce's career he wasn't the leader, Walker was. Pierce quickly became the best player but Walker was actually the leader of the team while he was in Boston. It wasn't until after Walker left that Pierce came into his own as a leader.

[nickagneta]

I miss how vocal Pierce was. How he would just put his foot down and tell guys he was going to go off, that the game wasn't over. Even in the Walker era C's could hit another gear.

It's worth remembering though (at least this is how I remember it) that early in Pierce's career he wasn't the leader, Walker was. Pierce quickly became the best player but Walker was actually the leader of the team while he was in Boston. It wasn't until after Walker left that Pierce came into his own as a leader.

Also, up until say a year after his stabbing incident, Pierce was a very immature person and it showed in his game.

Let's not forget, Pierce was not someone who was any type of a playmaker until his 5th year in the league, and even then, he was pretty turnover prone.

[#1P4P]

No… Tatum’s on track to surpass Paul in counting stats and have a better team career due to the superiority of the Celtics regime during Tatum’s tenure.

Comparing games, they’re both excellent on all 3 levels and could create their own offense off the dribble; the difference is Pierce was a more versatile scorer and a better playmaker. Paul shot well off the curl, spot up, and didn’t have to dribble to get a great shot. I was watching a PP highlight where he posted and caught the ball in his sweet spot, went to the triple threat, jab stepped, and rose over the top without dribbling. JT isn’t comfortable unless he dribbles even when he’s wide open.

Pierce had a certain confidence to his game that JT doesn’t and it’s his biggest advantage over him. Paul had sweet spots, got to them, and executed especially in the clutch. It’s the mark of a great scorer and why contemporaries like KD, Kawhi, and Derozan are so deadly in the clutch. They’re not just taking what the defense gives them, they get to one of their spots, shoot, and have a high probability of making it. Except for the side step 3 (which he shoots at an above average clip but isn’t reliable enough for the clutch) JT looks like he’s freestyling out there.

On defense, they’re similar, but JT is more active and athletic on that end and is showing the signs of a good weak side rim protector. If he becomes among the great scorer I described in the prior paragraph, JT will close the gap and surpass Pierce.

[Moranis]

Tatum is absolutely better than Pierce and I don't think it is all that close.  Tatum is the 2nd best Celtic since Bird, only KG was better, and frankly Tatum has a chance to eclipse KG's MVP level peak of that 08 season since KG's best seasons were before he came to Boston.