Author Topic: When should the seat start to get hot?  (Read 6284 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2021, 01:54:46 PM »

Offline Donoghus

  • Global Moderator
  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28335
  • Tommy Points: 1418
  • What a Pub Should Be
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

This is the correct answer.


2010 CB Historical Draft - Best Overall Team

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2021, 02:42:34 PM »

Kiorrik

  • Guest
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

Yes it would be the ultimate in overreacting. Especially if you consider that fact that we threw away 6 games where we were in winning positions in (vs NY in 2OT, vs Was in 2OT, vs Chi where we led by 25+ but collapsed in the 4th, vs Dallas where we got Doncic'd, vs Cle where the Cavs won with 2 last second free throws, and vs Spurs where we fell behind by 26, fought back to lead by 7 then were outscored by 15 to lose). It's a game of if, but if we had withstood those opposition runs when we were in winning positions we could easily be 17-4 and heading the EC right now. Those losses were not because we got blown away and outplayed for the whole game but where we squandered winning positions and lost key moments in the games.

Obviously we didn't deserve to win them but it's a different story when you lose key moments vs where you were never in the game to begin with. The former speaks to mental issues, the latter to talent or composition issues. Their inconsistency on the court is why they are where they are, which to me is less to do with Ime and more to do with the players applying themselves for the full 48 minutes.


All that said, I'm not totally sold on Ime yet. But he deserves a much longer rope than a lot of fans, with our instant gratification mentality today, are willing to give.
I think you captured the situation pretty well - TP
Or it is in fact coaching that leads to the mental issues and breakdown of focus.

... in which case, again, you give Ime time to figure things out.

There's so much that goes into getting to "a winning team" than just swapping a coach 2 months in.

I realise some orgs look like they're trying harder by hiring Kyrie, Harden and Durant ... but look how far that's getting them.

Also realise what message you're sending by trading/ditching players/staff after giving them less-than-minimal amount of time to do their jobs.

You'd basically be saying "we don't trust our own judgement". You're saying "you're all replaceable"/"don't get comfortable".

Not a great line to throw at a league full of players that are deciding their own futures.

Canning a coach without giving him a chance to grow into their role, especially a brand new one, is silly. Expecting everything to magically work out from day 1, is silly. Ignoring the progress made over the last few months, is silly.

I'm taking this 20 games at a time.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2021, 04:11:06 PM »

Offline ozgod

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11907
  • Tommy Points: 897
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

Yes it would be the ultimate in overreacting. Especially if you consider that fact that we threw away 6 games where we were in winning positions in (vs NY in 2OT, vs Was in 2OT, vs Chi where we led by 25+ but collapsed in the 4th, vs Dallas where we got Doncic'd, vs Cle where the Cavs won with 2 last second free throws, and vs Spurs where we fell behind by 26, fought back to lead by 7 then were outscored by 15 to lose). It's a game of if, but if we had withstood those opposition runs when we were in winning positions we could easily be 17-4 and heading the EC right now. Those losses were not because we got blown away and outplayed for the whole game but where we squandered winning positions and lost key moments in the games.

Obviously we didn't deserve to win them but it's a different story when you lose key moments vs where you were never in the game to begin with. The former speaks to mental issues, the latter to talent or composition issues. Their inconsistency on the court is why they are where they are, which to me is less to do with Ime and more to do with the players applying themselves for the full 48 minutes.


All that said, I'm not totally sold on Ime yet. But he deserves a much longer rope than a lot of fans, with our instant gratification mentality today, are willing to give.
I think you captured the situation pretty well - TP
Or it is in fact coaching that leads to the mental issues and breakdown of focus.

That's a fair point. Ultimately the coach's role is to get the best out of the players. He deserves more than 20 games to prove he can do that though. Just like any manager in any company needs some time to put his stamp on his employees. Some may buy in right away, others might not. He may need to figure out the best way to get to some of them. Then the players need to put it together on the court.

If he is unable to, irrespective of whose fault it is, it will probably be Ime's head that will roll, because he has command responsibility. It's a results oriented business. But I think the brains trust will look at him as a long term hire and support him through thick and thin, unless something drastic happens with respect to chemistry or culture and he is seen as a poor fit.

As for us fans, we will judge him by the only thing we have visibility of - the results on the court or whether the team is playing the way we want it to play. Expecting calls for his head each time we have a bad loss. :laugh:
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2021, 02:31:16 AM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

  • NCE
  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1417
  • Tommy Points: 69
Udoka deserves at least two seasons, probably three. The obvious change if he flops two seasons in a row: GM/Coach Brad Stevens, so weíre fine if Udoka does not pan out. Give the guy at least a couple years, though. Geez.

Guess what may need to change after this season: The duo that is JT/JB, which continues to not play as hoped for years now. They both clearly want to be the alpha, leading to a lack of team ball play we saw in their early years together alongside vet leaders, but there can only be one alpha. If we can flip one of JT/JB for a youngish beta and a youngish gamma, we may be much better served. This is especially true if Udoka can help Smartacus become focused on maximizing his strengths (defense/hustle) and minimizing his glaring weakness (shooting).

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2021, 09:06:13 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28685
  • Tommy Points: 1353
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

Yes it would be the ultimate in overreacting. Especially if you consider that fact that we threw away 6 games where we were in winning positions in (vs NY in 2OT, vs Was in 2OT, vs Chi where we led by 25+ but collapsed in the 4th, vs Dallas where we got Doncic'd, vs Cle where the Cavs won with 2 last second free throws, and vs Spurs where we fell behind by 26, fought back to lead by 7 then were outscored by 15 to lose). It's a game of if, but if we had withstood those opposition runs when we were in winning positions we could easily be 17-4 and heading the EC right now. Those losses were not because we got blown away and outplayed for the whole game but where we squandered winning positions and lost key moments in the games.

Obviously we didn't deserve to win them but it's a different story when you lose key moments vs where you were never in the game to begin with. The former speaks to mental issues, the latter to talent or composition issues. Their inconsistency on the court is why they are where they are, which to me is less to do with Ime and more to do with the players applying themselves for the full 48 minutes.


All that said, I'm not totally sold on Ime yet. But he deserves a much longer rope than a lot of fans, with our instant gratification mentality today, are willing to give.
I think you captured the situation pretty well - TP
Or it is in fact coaching that leads to the mental issues and breakdown of focus.

That's a fair point. Ultimately the coach's role is to get the best out of the players. He deserves more than 20 games to prove he can do that though. Just like any manager in any company needs some time to put his stamp on his employees. Some may buy in right away, others might not. He may need to figure out the best way to get to some of them. Then the players need to put it together on the court.

If he is unable to, irrespective of whose fault it is, it will probably be Ime's head that will roll, because he has command responsibility. It's a results oriented business. But I think the brains trust will look at him as a long term hire and support him through thick and thin, unless something drastic happens with respect to chemistry or culture and he is seen as a poor fit.

As for us fans, we will judge him by the only thing we have visibility of - the results on the court or whether the team is playing the way we want it to play. Expecting calls for his head each time we have a bad loss. :laugh:
Oh I don't think the seat is even warm, I was just commenting that a lot of what was described as being on the players could very well be on the coach.  There is a reason that the same set of players can perform significantly differently depending on who the coach is.  We see it all of the time and regime changes with a different type of personality can make all of the difference in the world.  The classic example is going from a disciplinarian to a more hands off approach (and vice versa), but it doesn't have to be polar opposites either.  The players have to play and the gm has to pick the right players, but the coach has a lot more impact on what actually happens then a lot of people want to recognize. 
2021 Historical Draft - 5th Pick - Raptors
PG - Tiny Archibald 73, Don Buse 77, Terrell Brandon 96
SG - Chet Walker 67, Michael Cooper 87, Raja Bell 06
SF - Predrag "Peja" Stojakovic 04, Kiki Vandeweghe 87, Robert Covington 18
PF - Karl Malone 97, Spencer Haywood 73, David West 08
C - Ben Wallace 04, George Mikan 50, Al Jefferson 08

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2021, 01:02:08 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5566
  • Tommy Points: 479
I Still think the coach is the biggest problem with this team. He has no idea what heís doing on the offensive end. Celtics took 47 shots from 3pt last night and only made 16 of them (34%). This has been a theme all season.  Minnesota took 34 shots from 3pt and they made 14. Celtics only scored 26 points in the paint. T-Wolves had 50. Ime is playing checkers while other coaches are playing chess.

Udoka has no game plan offensively and the players are going to lose confidence in him if they havenít done so already. Playing poorly on the offensive end seems to be effecting the teams defensive effort as well. Not saying that it should, but it looks as though it is. This team has too much talent to be playing this poorly and Iím not seeing any improvement from the coach.   Canít imagine going through this for another season or two.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2021, 02:08:02 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6138
  • Tommy Points: 431
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

This is the correct answer.
Unfortunately.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2021, 02:48:19 PM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

This is the correct answer.


There's no such thing as an easy game for this team.
Youíll have to excuse my lengthinessóthe reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2021, 03:10:05 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19479
  • Tommy Points: 1871
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

This is the correct answer.


There's no such thing as an easy game for this team.

Zing.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2021, 03:40:33 PM »

Online SparzWizard

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12030
  • Tommy Points: 722
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

This is the correct answer.


There's no such thing as an easy game for this team.

Zing.

They just lost to the shorthanded Wolves. No easy games.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2021, 04:59:28 PM »

Offline ausbacker

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 359
  • Tommy Points: 39
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

This is the correct answer.

No, it isn't but it's hardly surprising given the circle jerk acceptance of mediocrity permeating this forum.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2021, 05:34:55 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • K.C. Jones
  • *************
  • Posts: 13342
  • Tommy Points: 1318
You don't hire a new GM and coach and then replace them one year later unless the team seriously implodes and massively underperforms. So, unless the Celtics finish the season with a locker room in chaos and a record that puts them deep into the lottery, there is no hot seat this year. And this team has too much talent to finish any worse than .500. Their February and March schedule is unbelievably easier than the upcoming 6 week December/January run. A 12-12 record over the next 24 games probably puts this team with a record near 47-50 wins

This is the correct answer.

No, it isn't but it's hardly surprising given the circle jerk acceptance of mediocrity permeating this forum.

Wow. That really escalated.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #57 on: December 29, 2021, 10:03:51 PM »

Offline Goldstar88

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5566
  • Tommy Points: 479
Cís go 4-42 from 3pt with 26 points scored in the paint. Clippers shoot 11-28 from 3pt and had 54 points in the paint. This is the same thing that happened last game, only worse. Maybe take higher percentage shots? Play to guys strengths? I know many on this site have been watching the Cís a lot longer than I have, but has there been a worse head coach?

How can the GM and owners of a team that has made the playoffs several years in a row hire someone who has never been a head coach at any level?  It just doesnít make any sense.

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2021, 10:05:26 PM »

Kiorrik

  • Guest
Cís go 4-42 from 3pt with 26 points scored in the paint. Clippers shoot 11-28 from 3pt and had 54 points in the paint. This is the same thing that happened last game, only worse. Maybe take higher percentage shots? Play to guys strengths? I know many on this site have been watching the Cís a lot longer than I have, but has there been a worse head coach for the Cís?

How can the GM and owners of a team that has made the playoffs several years in a row hire someone who has never been a head coach at any level?  It just doesnít make any sense.

To be honest, I'd make them shoot 3s for a good 5-6 hours on end tomorrow.

(Solution isn't to not shoot threes. Solution is to shoot better than 9%)

Re: When should the seat start to get hot?
« Reply #59 on: December 29, 2021, 10:08:55 PM »

Offline footey

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14891
  • Tommy Points: 1754
Cís go 4-42 from 3pt with 26 points scored in the paint. Clippers shoot 11-28 from 3pt and had 54 points in the paint. This is the same thing that happened last game, only worse. Maybe take higher percentage shots? Play to guys strengths? I know many on this site have been watching the Cís a lot longer than I have, but has there been a worse head coach for the Cís?

How can the GM and owners of a team that has made the playoffs several years in a row hire someone who has never been a head coach at any level?  It just doesnít make any sense.

To be honest, I'd make them shoot 3s for a good 5-6 hours on end tomorrow.

(Solution isn't to not shoot threes. Solution is to shoot better than 9%)

Do you really believe they don't practice their 3 point shots enough?  That seems to be the only shot they practice, especially pre-game.  This team is in a deep funk, and has lost complete confidence in itself.   Hope they can dig themselves out soon.