Jaylen Brown article and his views on basketball and social reform issues

[KG Living Legend]

 Could care less about any of this stuff. What was that phrase, shut up and dribble

[gouki88]

 Could care less about any of this stuff. What was that phrase, shut up and dribble

The phrase that gets people ridiculed?

[Roy H.]

 Could care less about any of this stuff. What was that phrase, shut up and dribble

On that note...  His knee is much better and he's feeling much more explosive.

But, his wrist still gives him problems on occasion.

[sgrogan]

It is possible to be informed on all types of issues, looking at all sides and decide one side is the side you agree with.

And if he choose the other side - he would be vilified by the NBA, media and every corporation.  You are only allowed to express one opinion and if you comply you will be rewarded by the system.

So you're another person making bad assumptions about how Jaylen came to have his opinion. First guy assumes Jaylen only educated himself on one side of the issue and now you assume he only has that opinion to fit in and appease his employer and corporate partners.

Boy, you guys must either be on very close terms with Jaylen to know these things or tremendous mind readers.

Very respectfully.
It's been argued that Jaylen is ignorant, indoctrinated, or enlightened.
You've dismissed the first two because we don't know Jaylen.
I imagine it is much more complicated.

[KG Living Legend]

 Could care less about any of this stuff. What was that phrase, shut up and dribble

The phrase that gets people ridiculed?

 Yes. Although, I think it should be tweaked to, shut up and score

[GreenlyGreeny]

Here for basketball, not politics. Sorry.

[GreenlyGreeny]

Here for basketball, not politics. Sorry.

[nickagneta]

There are many programs already addressing the equity issue and trying to keep all people out of poverty, but the complaints of people out of poverty are profound and drive people to vote against such measures, while often labeling these poor people as lazy and just wanting to get handouts. All you have to do is rummage through the CE forum on this site to see the proof of that.

Or welfare and other government programs that enable people to become dependent for generations are destructive.  Base level they create a moral hazard by enabling women to replacing fathers with govt handouts.

And....there is the proof I mentioned.

Can’t you make the same argument that there’s just as many people that don’t like the idea of making special arrangements and assistance for people based on race rather than income level? 

There’s plenty of proof of that in this thread too.  The only difference it seems like is which one person feels like is more the root of the problem.  I feel like deciding which solutions to go with based on which people would like it more is something politicians would base their decisions on instead of picking one that would be more appropriate for a societies actual faults

Personally I agree more with Roy’s side of things in this thread but am also pretty disappointed in some of the ignorance and shots being taken at Jaylen personally as well.  I think Jaylens hearts in the right place, I just feel like there’s a point where progress stops being progress and can turn into a reverse racism situation

Yes you can.

But Roy was suggesting instead of Affirmative Action type programs, there should be programs to lift all people, regardless of color out of poverty. I was simply stating those programs already exist and are very unpopular to people out of poverty.

[Neurotic Guy]

Equity is a great concept - better than equality. It has to be invested in however. It doesn’t begin at college admissions.  It also can’t be attained foolishly just throwing money at people.

If opportunity for all (generally, not perfectly equal opportunity, but generally so) is the goal, you have to provide better neonatal and postpartum care, childhood nutrition, parent and family education and strengthening, parent training in executive skills and social-emotional skills, promotion of delayed parenting (reduction in teen pregnancy), early childhood education including individualized child/family support when needed, quality schools, low class sizes in poorer areas, quality educators (means paying them) in poorer areas, capacity to address mild and moderate disabilities effectively as there tends to be more as a percentage among poorer populations,….  Pretty dang costly to commit to equity. 

[SDceltGuy]

Silly to believe with the decades of evidence to the contrary - that government programs are going lift people out of poverty, create equality or 'equity' (whatever that means).  The best thing in the long run would be to get government out the way and let private charity step in where needed.  Government corrupts, wastes resources and divides people in whatever it gets involved with. 

[gift]

Under this system, the sons of a rich black man benefit more than those of a white in generational poverty.  That’s not equity.

My ancestral history is filled with tales of woe, including fleeing what was essentially a ethnicity-based genocide.  My dad grew up living in a house with a dirt floor.  My mother’s family wad riddled with alcoholism and mental illness.  My mother is deceased, a victim of suicide.  My father is now disabled, a victim of cancer that was gifted to him from the drinking water at a military base he served at. I’m first generation college, and I’m under a staggering amount of college and grad school debt.

Where’s my equal playing field?

People are falling into the trap.  The trap is to make any well intentioned action or discussion involving race into something divisive.  It is easy to do.  These are complex issues.

As to Roy, there is no doubt that not every white male has been giving everything on a sliver platter but to your case specifically, you worked hard and succeeded against plenty of head winds but do you acknowledge that if in addition to all that, your skin was also dark, that it would have been even harder?  I think in general, that is the case, not in every case, but in general, there are going to be greater headwinds for African Americans and other minorities, be it coaching or anything.

It seems so hard to say just let the best man (or woman) win.  It should be easy.  Pick the best coach you feel will help your team win.  Pick the best employee that will help your company succeed.  Some companies see value, good for their brand, in having a diverse work force and make an effort to hire more minorities.  A professional sports team may feel that a black coach, even if not the most experienced, is a good message to send to their team.  These are business decisions.

I will say that having programs that target elevating minorities and underserved communities is a good investment for the country.  It should not be seen that it is at the expense of someone else.  Is a program to help minority inner city kids anti-white kids?  I don't feel it is correct or productive to view it that way.  If you can help some young minority kids not end up in jail, that is a good thing.  It is hard to execute programs like that but that should not stop you from trying.

From my life experience only, poverty seems to be a much greater headwind than race.  My guess is that middle class / upper class blacks have better outcomes than lower class whites.  Obviously, poor blacks have perhaps the greatest headwinds, but affirmative action isn't geared solely toward them.  If we truly care about equity, rather than appeasing political constituencies, I think it's past time to try to lift all races out of poverty, by giving them truly equal opportunity.  And yet, on college applications, those in poverty aren't given an automatic advantage in admissions like is done with race.  In fact, one's status as being poor is often used against an applicant if a college's admissions process is not "need blind".

Here is the problem with trying to lift people out of poverty, middle class and upper class people hate the idea. Those classes of people b!tch and moan about safety nets like Medicare, Medicaid, EBT programs, low rents in public housing, the amount of financial aid for college given to poor people, disability payments, minimum wages, etc.

There are many programs already addressing the equity issue and trying to keep all people out of poverty, but the complaints of people out of poverty are profound and drive people to vote against such measures, while often labeling these poor people as lazy and just wanting to get handouts. All you have to do is rummage through the CE forum on this site to see the proof of that.

So yeah, let's address bringing all types of people out of poverty. It's already being done but to too small an extent and falls farther and farther from the goal as incomes for the poor have stagnated and are outpaced by inflation. That means these measures are doing less and less to lift people out of poverty every year.

I remember when I had to take over my dad's finances. I was kinda shocked to see the Social Security cost of living increases were smaller than the increase in Medicare price increases. My parents monthly SS checks got smaller each year of the three years I was administering their finances. Because of this, most elderly and disabled were actually getting poorer and poorer each year.

A society that does not honor its elders is a society in decline that will not last, so if anybody has elders and/or children it would be wise to honor our elders so the children have a future.

We must honor our elders, and the most practical thing we can do as a society to achieve that is to ensure that social security checks keep pace with inflation after adjusting for increases in Medicare costs. It’s mind-boggling that this is described as a radical idea when all it does is ensure dignity and respect in retirement for all.

Yes, everyone who is not a senior (until they become a senior someday) would pay more in taxes (and/or we decrease costs elsewhere) in order to achieve this honor, but it is the right thing to do. That aside, the benefits of the societal happiness dividend associated with such social security (real social security, not broken promises) will more than offset any costs. No more half-measures, folks…

I think every program/benefit/subsidy/regulation that has a monetary element should have two attributes built-in. One is an automatic inflationary measure that keeps it on pace with the relative value at the time it was set. The second is a built-in expiration date before which it must be reviewed and renewed.

[Celtics4ever]

Equity is a unrealistic concept in all honesty albeit a noble one.

I have a decent IQ somewhere between 140 and 150 on a full scale Weschler test.   I could pass college courses without opening a book.   No policies are going to make someone who does not have that equitable.   Though hard work can close the gap and there are people much smarter than I.

I also could bench 225 lbs 32 times in my early 20s and max press 450 lbs.  Again  hard work can close the gap and there are people much smarter than I.

I practiced basketball all the time and was one of the better players at my college but no matter how hard I practiced I would never be as good as a pro athlete.   I could rebound and defend against D1 guys but could not score like I could in D3.

I am not a handsome guy, by any means.  No amount of make up, surgery is going to make me Brad Pitt.

My point is people are not inherently equal.   All mean are not created equal in ability and we all are different. 

This applies to Social Constructs & Institutions as well.   Certain people know the system better, have more ambition or more raw talent.   This is never going to change no matter what we do.

I do think certain groups have a harder go of it but I also think they in some cases we've ignored people with more ability, like it happens to Asians all the time, in order to advance someone from the disadvantaged group at the expense of the more talented person.   This DOES NOT HAPPEN IN SPORTS  but it does in life all the time.  I know the current though of many is systematic barriers hold people back ala CRT but many folks over come these barriers with their abilities or hard work.   That does not mean others would do so.

Even if you had so called equity people on drugs would waste their money on that, gamblers would gamble, etc.   Vices almost always win out.

[dannyboy35]

  What I take out of this more than anything is Jaylen is well intentioned. Whether everyone agrees or not. I love that about him.

[td450]

Equity is a unrealistic concept in all honesty albeit a noble one.

I have a decent IQ somewhere between 140 and 150 on a full scale Weschler test.   I could pass college courses without opening a book.   No policies are going to make someone who does not have that equitable.   Though hard work can close the gap and there are people much smarter than I.

I also could bench 225 lbs 32 times in my early 20s and max press 450 lbs.  Again  hard work can close the gap and there are people much smarter than I.

I practiced basketball all the time and was one of the better players at my college but no matter how hard I practiced I would never be as good as a pro athlete.   I could rebound and defend against D1 guys but could not score like I could in D3.

I am not a handsome guy, by any means.  No amount of make up, surgery is going to make me Brad Pitt.

My point is people are not inherently equal.   All mean are not created equal in ability and we all are different. 

This applies to Social Constructs & Institutions as well.   Certain people know the system better, have more ambition or more raw talent.   This is never going to change no matter what we do.

I do think certain groups have a harder go of it but I also think they in some cases we've ignored people with more ability, like it happens to Asians all the time, in order to advance someone from the disadvantaged group at the expense of the more talented person.   This DOES NOT HAPPEN IN SPORTS  but it does in life all the time.  I know the current though of many is systematic barriers hold people back ala CRT but many folks over come these barriers with their abilities or hard work.   That does not mean others would do so.

Even if you had so called equity people on drugs would waste their money on that, gamblers would gamble, etc.   Vices almost always win out.

Dude, whatever your IQ is, sometimes you do need to look at a book to understand something. I suggest a dictionary may help you with the word "equity".

[SDceltGuy]

  What I take out of this more than anything is Jaylen is well intentioned. Whether everyone agrees or not. I love that about him.

What is well intentioned or intelligent about excluding people based on color of skin?  That is lame and backwards.  It is what I dislike most about him.