Best Collections Of Talent Ever?

[Moranis]

What I find interesting about all these Shaq seasons we have mentioned -- none of them are from his Orlando years! Because they have no bench. None.

Shaq played with some incredible talent over his career. That team swapping late in his career next to MVP talents (Wade, Nash, LeBron, KG) all with other All-Star talents around him and many with strong benches.

Orlando pales in comparison despite having Penny Hardaway and two strong pros in Horace Grant and Nick Anderson. Brian Shaw and Dennis Scott just isn't enough to compete with the loaded talent on all those other teams (LAL, MIA, PHO, CLE, BOS).

Not sure if Phoenix was mentioned but just in case:

C: Shaquille O'Neal, Robin Lopez
F: Amare Stoudemire, Boris Diaw
F: Grant Hill, Matt Barnes
G: Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa
G: Steve Nash, Goran Dragic

Or you could go with Jason Richardson and Jared Dudley over Boris Diaw and Raja Bell. Either way is awesome.

Two MVPs in Shaq and Nash. Two more top 10 NBA players in Grant Hill and Amare Stoudemire. Strong depth.

Yeah, I mentioned the Suns for much the same reason as you. 

A more modern one. 

The 10 win, 2015-16 Sixers, if you count Embiid and Simmons who were both injured, but under contract you can come up with a pretty darn good team

Embiid, Simmons, Elton Brand, Christian Wood, Jerami Grant, Richaun Holmes, Robert Covington, Nerlens Noel, Jahill Okafor, TJ McConnell, Ish Smith

Weak guards, but so much size they'd be tough to guard for most teams if they went super big i.e. Simmons, Covington, Wood, Brand, Embiid. 

[Roy H.]

What I find interesting about all these Shaq seasons we have mentioned -- none of them are from his Orlando years! Because they have no bench. None.

Shaq played with some incredible talent over his career. That team swapping late in his career next to MVP talents (Wade, Nash, LeBron, KG) all with other All-Star talents around him and many with strong benches.

Orlando pales in comparison despite having Penny Hardaway and two strong pros in Horace Grant and Nick Anderson. Brian Shaw and Dennis Scott just isn't enough to compete with the loaded talent on all those other teams (LAL, MIA, PHO, CLE, BOS).

Not sure if Phoenix was mentioned but just in case:

C: Shaquille O'Neal, Robin Lopez
F: Amare Stoudemire, Boris Diaw
F: Grant Hill, Matt Barnes
G: Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa
G: Steve Nash, Goran Dragic

Or you could go with Jason Richardson and Jared Dudley over Boris Diaw and Raja Bell. Either way is awesome.

Two MVPs in Shaq and Nash. Two more top 10 NBA players in Grant Hill and Amare Stoudemire. Strong depth.

That Orlando team was a let down, due to a mix of bad luck and bad management.

They traded the #1 pick (Chris Webber) for Penny Hardaway and first rounders in 1996, 1998 and 2000.  It seemed like a brilliant trade, and those picks turned out to be 11th, 5th and 5th overall.  Unfortunately, all they netted out of those drafts was Mike Miller. 

They made the following really bad trade in 1994:

uly 29, 1994: Scott Skiles traded by the Orlando Magic with a 1996 1st round draft pick (Todd Fuller was later selected) and a 1998 1st round draft pick (Vince Carter was later selected) to the Washington Bullets for a 1996 2nd round draft pick (Randy Livingston was later selected) and a 1998 1st round draft pick (Keon Clark was later selected).

Guys available with that 1996 pick:  Kobe, Nash, Peja, Jermaine O'Neal

And in 1998 it was Vince Carter, with Dirk and Pierce still on the board, as well.

Anybody remember why Orlando did that deal?  Was it a salary dump? 

EDIT:  Apparently it was to create cap space to sign Horace Grant.  So, to clear roughly $2 million, they gave up a shot at selecting two Hall of Famers.  Ouch.

With luck and good management, the Magic could have hypothetically had:

Shaq
Dirk
Miller
Kobe
Penny

[Who]

Here's a strange one - the 2012ish Knicks

G: Jason Kidd, Raymond Felton
G: JR Smith, Iman Shumpert
F: Carmelo Anthony, Quentin Richardson
F: Amare Stoudemire, Rasheed Wallace, Kenyon Martin
C: Tyson Chandler, Marcus Camby, Kurt Thomas

Remember that old man Knicks team with Jason Kidd, Sheed, K-Mart and Camby as role players to Melo, Amare and Tyson. That team would get a major boost from prime level guys. Q-Rich is a nice bump for their bench also. And Raymond Felton.

The SG spot is weak. Actually Q-Rich is their best SG.

Kidd immediately becomes their best player. Incredible big man depth but lacking in clear cut elite talent. I guess go small with Amare and Sheed as bigs is the best option. Or maybe Sheed & Tyson as best defensive combo. Melo finally gives Kidd that halfcourt scorer his Nets teams lacked.

Not in line with the best of the best but pretty dang good.


Edit: Mmm, go big!

G: Jason Kidd
G: Carmelo Anthony
F: Rasheed Wallace (he started at SF in his career)
F: Amare Stoudemire
C: Tyson Chandler

Power basketball. Beat people up.

[Who]

What I find interesting about all these Shaq seasons we have mentioned -- none of them are from his Orlando years! Because they have no bench. None.

Shaq played with some incredible talent over his career. That team swapping late in his career next to MVP talents (Wade, Nash, LeBron, KG) all with other All-Star talents around him and many with strong benches.

Orlando pales in comparison despite having Penny Hardaway and two strong pros in Horace Grant and Nick Anderson. Brian Shaw and Dennis Scott just isn't enough to compete with the loaded talent on all those other teams (LAL, MIA, PHO, CLE, BOS).

Not sure if Phoenix was mentioned but just in case:

C: Shaquille O'Neal, Robin Lopez
F: Amare Stoudemire, Boris Diaw
F: Grant Hill, Matt Barnes
G: Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa
G: Steve Nash, Goran Dragic

Or you could go with Jason Richardson and Jared Dudley over Boris Diaw and Raja Bell. Either way is awesome.

Two MVPs in Shaq and Nash. Two more top 10 NBA players in Grant Hill and Amare Stoudemire. Strong depth.

That Orlando team was a let down, due to a mix of bad luck and bad management.

They traded the #1 pick (Chris Webber) for Penny Hardaway and first rounders in 1996, 1998 and 2000.  It seemed like a brilliant trade, and those picks turned out to be 11th, 5th and 5th overall.  Unfortunately, all they netted out of those drafts was Mike Miller. 

They made the following really bad trade in 1994:

uly 29, 1994: Scott Skiles traded by the Orlando Magic with a 1996 1st round draft pick (Todd Fuller was later selected) and a 1998 1st round draft pick (Vince Carter was later selected) to the Washington Bullets for a 1996 2nd round draft pick (Randy Livingston was later selected) and a 1998 1st round draft pick (Keon Clark was later selected).

Guys available with that 1996 pick:  Kobe, Nash, Peja, Jermaine O'Neal

And in 1998 it was Vince Carter, with Dirk and Pierce still on the board, as well.

Anybody remember why Orlando did that deal?  Was it a salary dump?

I don't remember the trade but time wise (29 July 1994) it looks like it may have been a salary dump to sign Horace Grant. They spent a lot of money on him at the time.

Yeah, H.Grant signed the next day (30 July). Must have been a cap dump for free agency.

If memory serves, H.Grant was paid huge money at the time. Top 10 earner or close to it league-wide.

[sgrogan]

I still think the 86 Celts are in the conversation. Peak Walton, however short was amazing. Add Larry legend.
Peak Kareem with peak Magic, don't know how that it could be beat.

Post peak Kareem vs a resurgent Walton, some of my best fan memories ever.

[bdm860]

I don't remember the trade but time wise (29 July 1994) it looks like it may have been a salary dump to sign Horace Grant. They spent a lot of money on him at the time.

Yeah, H.Grant signed the next day (30 July). Must have been a cap dump for free agency.

If memory serves, H.Grant was paid huge money at the time. Top 10 earner or close to it league-wide.

Actually Horace Grant was one of the guys who ultimately broke the CBA.

So back then, if you didn't have cap room, the trick was you sign a guy to the maximum you can fit under the cap (in this case only $2.125m) in the first year of the contract, but you let the player opt out after 1 year and then you can re-sign him to whatever you want.  This started with Chris Dudley the year before.

The NBA actually voided this deal because of the clear attempts to circumvent the salary cap.  So the Magic and Grant eventually agreed to and the NBA approved an opt out after 2 years.  That's how Grant became the 2nd/3rd highest paid player in the league (behind only Jordan in '97, and Jordan and Ewing in '98), perfect timing of the Magic coming good on their under-the-table hand shake deal 2 years prior and the cap exploding.

[bdm860]

They traded the #1 pick (Chris Webber) for Penny Hardaway and first rounders in 1996, 1998 and 2000.  It seemed like a brilliant trade, and those picks turned out to be 11th, 5th and 5th overall.  Unfortunately, all they netted out of those drafts was Mike Miller. 

They made the following really bad trade in 1994:

uly 29, 1994: Scott Skiles traded by the Orlando Magic with a 1996 1st round draft pick (Todd Fuller was later selected) and a 1998 1st round draft pick (Vince Carter was later selected) to the Washington Bullets for a 1996 2nd round draft pick (Randy Livingston was later selected) and a 1998 1st round draft pick (Keon Clark was later selected).

Guys available with that 1996 pick:  Kobe, Nash, Peja, Jermaine O'Neal

And in 1998 it was Vince Carter, with Dirk and Pierce still on the board, as well.

Always found it interesting how 2 of those 3 picks the Warriors traded to the Magic actually made it back to the Warriors. 

So the Warriors traded 3 picks (+Penny) for Webber, but when the Warriors traded Webber away a year later, they were able to get 3 picks (+Googs) back for him, and 2 of those 3 picks were the ones they traded away in the first place.


You know how people look back and say things like, "I wish I could go back in time and buy Apple or Amazon stock or Bitcoin for pennies, I'd clean up."  I bet guys like Presti think "I wish I could go back to the 80's/90's and be a GM and acquire all these picks for pennies."

[Somebody]

How about the Bulls with Robert Parish?
What year was that - 1997 I think.

C: Parish
F: Rodman, Kukoc
F: Pippen
G: Jordan
G: Ron Harper

Ooh, Ron Harper in his prime. Wow, I had not thought of that one. That would be massive for Chicago. That group must be the meanest defensive starting five of all these teams. Sensational defense & rebounding.

Plus they have Kukoc as a 6th man. The rest of the bench lacks star talent but it has solid players. Brian Williams at backup center alongside Luc Longley. Steve Kerr. Caffey. Randy Brown. Buechler (always spell that dude's name wrong!).

The bench might be their undoing but that starting five is phenomenal. Kukoc as well. Their top 6.

Wouldn't a DJ/Ainge/Bird/McHale/Walton lineup with Parish as a sixth man beat that out defensively? Walton was levels above Parish in his prime as a defender and can cover up any holes Bird/Ainge leave as man defenders.

[gouki88]

How about the Bulls with Robert Parish?
What year was that - 1997 I think.

C: Parish
F: Rodman, Kukoc
F: Pippen
G: Jordan
G: Ron Harper

Ooh, Ron Harper in his prime. Wow, I had not thought of that one. That would be massive for Chicago. That group must be the meanest defensive starting five of all these teams. Sensational defense & rebounding.

Plus they have Kukoc as a 6th man. The rest of the bench lacks star talent but it has solid players. Brian Williams at backup center alongside Luc Longley. Steve Kerr. Caffey. Randy Brown. Buechler (always spell that dude's name wrong!).

The bench might be their undoing but that starting five is phenomenal. Kukoc as well. Their top 6.

Wouldn't a DJ/Ainge/Bird/McHale/Walton lineup with Parish as a sixth man beat that out defensively? Walton was levels above Parish in his prime as a defender and can cover up any holes Bird/Ainge leave as man defenders.

I think it depends. Prime MJ, Pip, Harper  and Rodman as freak athletes flying around anchored by Parish is tough, but the BBIQ of that Celtics team in their prime would be unrivalled

[Moranis]

2000 Dallas had Dennis Rodman

Dirk, Rodman, Finley, Ceballos, Nash with fairly solid depth

That'd be an interesting team.  Tons of offense in their prime and then Rodman.

[Roy H.]

Did we mention this one?

Andrew Bogut / Chris Andersen / Larry Sanders
Kevin Love / Tristan Thompson / Channing Frye / James Jones
Lebron / Richard Jefferson / J.R. Smith
Kyle Korver / Mike Dunleavy / Iman Shumpert / Dahntay Jones
Kyrie Irving / Deron Williams

Plus they had some guy named DeAndre Liggins that started 19 games that season.

[Who]

I was thinking of Ewing's final season in Orlando next to T-Mac and Grant Hill. I was wondering if Horace Grant was still on that team and he was. And if Darrell Armstrong was on that team and he was.

G: Darrell Armstrong
G: Tracy McGrady
F: Grant Hill, Mike Miller
F: Horace Grant
C: Patrick Ewing

Outside of Mike Miller, not a lot on the bench. Not enough to put them in the mix. DeClercq, Steven Hunter as backup centers. Bo Outlaw and Pat Garritty at PF. Troy Hudson, Dee Brown and Jaren Jackson at guard. Solid enough I suppose but not enough to get them to the dance.

That trio though, wow. T-Mac, Grant Hill and Ewing is dang impressive and with Horace Grant and Darrell Armstrong as glue guys too. An extra shooter in Mike Miller.

Got me thinking of Ewing's year in Seattle. Was Vin Baker still there? Schrempf and Hawkins had already left. Sam Perkins too. But they did have a young Rashard Lewis.

G: Gary Payton
G: Brent Barry
F: Rashard Lewis
F: Vin Baker
C: Patrick Ewing

An even worse bench. Desmond Mason, Ruben Patterson. Nothing else of note. Oh, way back at the end of the bench is Pervis Ellison. Hey if you get him at his peak, he was pretty good for a short while.

Magic squad clearly superior though.

[Moranis]

I was thinking of Ewing's final season in Orlando next to T-Mac and Grant Hill. I was wondering if Horace Grant was still on that team and he was. And if Darrell Armstrong was on that team and he was.

G: Darrell Armstrong
G: Tracy McGrady
F: Grant Hill, Mike Miller
F: Horace Grant
C: Patrick Ewing

Outside of Mike Miller, not a lot on the bench. Not enough to put them in the mix. DeClercq, Steven Hunter as backup centers. Bo Outlaw and Pat Garritty at PF. Troy Hudson, Dee Brown and Jaren Jackson at guard. Solid enough I suppose but not enough to get them to the dance.

That trio though, wow. T-Mac, Grant Hill and Ewing is dang impressive and with Horace Grant and Darrell Armstrong as glue guys too. An extra shooter in Mike Miller.

Got me thinking of Ewing's year in Seattle. Was Vin Baker still there? Schrempf and Hawkins had already left. Sam Perkins too. But they did have a young Rashard Lewis.

G: Gary Payton
G: Brent Barry
F: Rashard Lewis
F: Vin Baker
C: Patrick Ewing

An even worse bench. Desmond Mason, Ruben Patterson. Nothing else of note. Oh, way back at the end of the bench is Pervis Ellison. Hey if you get him at his peak, he was pretty good for a short while.

Magic squad clearly superior though.

The 91 Knicks wouldn't be bad if you are looking at Ewing teams

PG - Jackson, Cheeks
SG - Starks, G. Wilkins
SF - Kiki
PF - Oakley
C - Ewing

You could do 90 and swap Rod Strickland for Starks. 


99 Knicks would also be pretty good (outside of PG)

PG - Ward
SG - Houston
SF - Spreewell, Scott
PF - Grandmama, H. Williams
C - Ewing, Camby

The best Knicks squad was probably the one that had Frazier, Monroe, Lucas, Bradley, Debusschere, and Reed along with Dick Barnett.

[Surferdad]

I was thinking of Ewing's final season in Orlando next to T-Mac and Grant Hill. I was wondering if Horace Grant was still on that team and he was. And if Darrell Armstrong was on that team and he was.

G: Darrell Armstrong
G: Tracy McGrady
F: Grant Hill, Mike Miller
F: Horace Grant
C: Patrick Ewing

Outside of Mike Miller, not a lot on the bench. Not enough to put them in the mix. DeClercq, Steven Hunter as backup centers. Bo Outlaw and Pat Garritty at PF. Troy Hudson, Dee Brown and Jaren Jackson at guard. Solid enough I suppose but not enough to get them to the dance.

That trio though, wow. T-Mac, Grant Hill and Ewing is dang impressive and with Horace Grant and Darrell Armstrong as glue guys too. An extra shooter in Mike Miller.

Got me thinking of Ewing's year in Seattle. Was Vin Baker still there? Schrempf and Hawkins had already left. Sam Perkins too. But they did have a young Rashard Lewis.

G: Gary Payton
G: Brent Barry
F: Rashard Lewis
F: Vin Baker
C: Patrick Ewing

An even worse bench. Desmond Mason, Ruben Patterson. Nothing else of note. Oh, way back at the end of the bench is Pervis Ellison. Hey if you get him at his peak, he was pretty good for a short while.

Magic squad clearly superior though.

The 91 Knicks wouldn't be bad if you are looking at Ewing teams

PG - Jackson, Cheeks
SG - Starks, G. Wilkins
SF - Kiki
PF - Oakley
C - Ewing

You could do 90 and swap Rod Strickland for Starks. 


99 Knicks would also be pretty good (outside of PG)

PG - Ward
SG - Houston
SF - Spreewell, Scott
PF - Grandmama, H. Williams
C - Ewing, Camby

The best Knicks squad was probably the one that had Frazier, Monroe, Lucas, Bradley, Debusschere, and Reed along with Dick Barnett.

That was 69-70 team, one of my all-time favs.

[Jvalin]

How about the 2012/13 Spurs?

PG: Parker
SG: Manu
SF: Tracy McGrady
PF: Kawhi
C: Duncan

Amazing small ball lineup! Fwiw, Kawhi played 60% of his minutes at PF last season with the Clips.

Solid bench as well: Patty Mills - Danny Green - Stephen Jackson - Boris Diaw - Tiago Splitter/Aron Baynes (a 3pt machine in his prime )