Author Topic: Five “most important” Lakers historically  (Read 7686 times)

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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2021, 07:32:06 PM »

Offline liam

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Regarding the Lakers 5, it's sad that their 3rd or 4th best player ever gets no love because he didn't win a title

Elgin Baylor was a transformative player and maybe one of the 2 or 3 best NBA players for over a decade. But no titles because he was going against the Celtics juggernaut and he gets little recognition.

No one mentioned Wilt....

Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2021, 07:50:26 PM »

Offline greg683x

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I think there should be a difference between ‘most important’ and ‘best’.  I think a lot of folks just named the 5 best players.

On a list of most important, Garnett has to make the list, without him this team would be roughly 35 years without a title or even a finals appearance.  If Garnett wasn’t long tenured enough for the list then you have to throw in Pierce.

My 5 most important Celtics:
1. Russell
2. Bird
3. Hondo
4.  Cowens
5.  Garnett

5 for the Lakers:
1. Magic
2. Shaq
3.  Kareem
4. Kobe
5.  Lebron
How have LeBron's 184 games for the Lakers been more important than Jerry West's 1085?

Because Lebron is the catalyst for a new era dominance.  The Lakers were dysfunctional and getting spurned by free agents for the clippers.  All of that changes when they landed Lebron, like it or not.  He’s already won a ring in two seasons with the team.  Jerry won 1 ring in 14 years, his era will always be remembered for Celtics dominance. It’s basically the same reason I don’t have Baylor on the list.  We’ll see if the lakers title win last year is a one off and the team just fades away, that would change things obviously.

Again, this isn’t about who’s better
Greg

Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2021, 07:50:34 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Regarding the Lakers 5, it's sad that their 3rd or 4th best player ever gets no love because he didn't win a title

Elgin Baylor was a transformative player and maybe one of the 2 or 3 best NBA players for over a decade. But no titles because he was going against the Celtics juggernaut and he gets little recognition.

No one mentioned Wilt....

He only spent five seasons there, and was something like the 4th leading scorer the one season they did win a title. 


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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2021, 08:08:53 PM »

Online Moranis

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I think there should be a difference between ‘most important’ and ‘best’.  I think a lot of folks just named the 5 best players.

On a list of most important, Garnett has to make the list, without him this team would be roughly 35 years without a title or even a finals appearance.  If Garnett wasn’t long tenured enough for the list then you have to throw in Pierce.

My 5 most important Celtics:
1. Russell
2. Bird
3. Hondo
4.  Cowens
5.  Garnett

5 for the Lakers:
1. Magic
2. Shaq
3.  Kareem
4. Kobe
5.  Lebron
How have LeBron's 184 games for the Lakers been more important than Jerry West's 1085?
I'd go West, but I think there is an argument that but for Lebron, the Lakers might still be an embarrassment.  They were an absolute train wreck before Lebron got there.  All kinds of in fighting, a dispute between the brother and sister owner, a terrible revolving door at coach and executives, and not to mention losing like they had never seen. I mean they were basically the Knicks over that 5 year period.  Not to mention the losing.  When Lebron signed up they had missed the playoffs 5 straight years, before that run they had missed the playoffs just 5 times in the entire franchise history.  They were a top 4 seed when Lebron got hurt his first year and ended up missing the playoffs for 6 years in a row.  But for Lebron, they don't land Davis and don't win the title last year.  Lebron basically saved the Lakers.  How bad would they still be with Ingram, Ball, Hart, Kuzma, and whatever not super high lottery picks they would have landed.  Lebron changed the culture and changed that team for the better.

Magic, Shaq, Kareem, and Kobe are pretty easy, after that is is much more difficult.  I think you could make reasonable arguments for Mikan, West, Baylor, or Chamberlain and the best argument for Lebron I laid out above, but Lebron I just don't think has the games to be there yet (if they win another title or two and he plays another 5 years for them, then he starts to be in the discussion).  I know Mikan is often overlooked because he played in Minneapolis, but he was the best player in the world on the best team in the world for 6 years winning 5 titles.  Early NBA and Minneapolis so he is often ignored, but they don't have 5 titles without him.
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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2021, 08:44:35 PM »

Online Moranis

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Also, thinking of Lebron, he is clearly the most important Cav in their history and he has to be in the top 5 of the Heat (even with just 4 years), so if he does stick around with the Lakers for awhile, he might end up in the top 5 of 3 different franchises historically, which is just crazy to think about.
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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2021, 09:16:52 PM »

Offline greg683x

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I think there should be a difference between ‘most important’ and ‘best’.  I think a lot of folks just named the 5 best players.

On a list of most important, Garnett has to make the list, without him this team would be roughly 35 years without a title or even a finals appearance.  If Garnett wasn’t long tenured enough for the list then you have to throw in Pierce.

My 5 most important Celtics:
1. Russell
2. Bird
3. Hondo
4.  Cowens
5.  Garnett

5 for the Lakers:
1. Magic
2. Shaq
3.  Kareem
4. Kobe
5.  Lebron
How have LeBron's 184 games for the Lakers been more important than Jerry West's 1085?
I'd go West, but I think there is an argument that but for Lebron, the Lakers might still be an embarrassment.  They were an absolute train wreck before Lebron got there.  All kinds of in fighting, a dispute between the brother and sister owner, a terrible revolving door at coach and executives, and not to mention losing like they had never seen. I mean they were basically the Knicks over that 5 year period.  Not to mention the losing.  When Lebron signed up they had missed the playoffs 5 straight years, before that run they had missed the playoffs just 5 times in the entire franchise history.  They were a top 4 seed when Lebron got hurt his first year and ended up missing the playoffs for 6 years in a row.  But for Lebron, they don't land Davis and don't win the title last year.  Lebron basically saved the Lakers.  How bad would they still be with Ingram, Ball, Hart, Kuzma, and whatever not super high lottery picks they would have landed.  Lebron changed the culture and changed that team for the better.

Magic, Shaq, Kareem, and Kobe are pretty easy, after that is is much more difficult.  I think you could make reasonable arguments for Mikan, West, Baylor, or Chamberlain and the best argument for Lebron I laid out above, but Lebron I just don't think has the games to be there yet (if they win another title or two and he plays another 5 years for them, then he starts to be in the discussion).  I know Mikan is often overlooked because he played in Minneapolis, but he was the best player in the world on the best team in the world for 6 years winning 5 titles.  Early NBA and Minneapolis so he is often ignored, but they don't have 5 titles without him.

This 110%
Greg

Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2021, 09:30:38 PM »

Online SparzWizard

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Also, thinking of Lebron, he is clearly the most important Cav in their history and he has to be in the top 5 of the Heat (even with just 4 years), so if he does stick around with the Lakers for awhile, he might end up in the top 5 of 3 different franchises historically, which is just crazy to think about.

LeBron's probably ranked 1 in Miami Heat history. Without him, they don't win 2 titles...even though one came from a short season and the other had his career saved by a sharpshooting 3-pointer and by a PF with one of the greatest offensive rebounds in Miami history. He did lead that crazy team to four straight NBA Finals appearances.


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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2021, 09:45:45 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Also, thinking of Lebron, he is clearly the most important Cav in their history and he has to be in the top 5 of the Heat (even with just 4 years), so if he does stick around with the Lakers for awhile, he might end up in the top 5 of 3 different franchises historically, which is just crazy to think about.

LeBron's probably ranked 1 in Miami Heat history. Without him, they don't win 2 titles...even though one came from a short season and the other had his career saved by a sharpshooting 3-pointer and by a PF with one of the greatest offensive rebounds in Miami history. He did lead that crazy team to four straight NBA Finals appearances.
I think Wade trumps LeBron. Without him the Heat have 0 titles
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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2021, 06:08:22 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Where does George Mikan fall here?  I think that we are all underrating his importance, since he accounts for five of their titles.
#1 - he made the franchise. I highly doubt that the Minneapolis Lakers would've survived in the 50s without him to even make the move to Los Angeles.

Lakers top 5:
1. Mikan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. West
5. Shaq or Kobe

Celtics top 5 (this is incredibly difficult, I think any combination in this thread has a case)
1. Russell
2. Bird
3. Havlicek
4. Cowens
5. Garnett/Pierce/McHale
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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2021, 09:41:51 AM »

Online Moranis

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Also, thinking of Lebron, he is clearly the most important Cav in their history and he has to be in the top 5 of the Heat (even with just 4 years), so if he does stick around with the Lakers for awhile, he might end up in the top 5 of 3 different franchises historically, which is just crazy to think about.

LeBron's probably ranked 1 in Miami Heat history. Without him, they don't win 2 titles...even though one came from a short season and the other had his career saved by a sharpshooting 3-pointer and by a PF with one of the greatest offensive rebounds in Miami history. He did lead that crazy team to four straight NBA Finals appearances.
I think Wade trumps LeBron. Without him the Heat have 0 titles
Yeah Wade is clearly the most important Heat all time.  Then it gets interesting with Lebron, Mourning, Bosh, Rice, Haslem, and Hardaway.  I'd probably have them in the order I have them, but not being a Heat fan it is hard to gauge those things.   
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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2021, 02:32:41 PM »

Offline ManchesterCelticsFan

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I'm sure if you asked the late Red Auerbach to create the list for the most important Celtics he would put Bill Russel at #1 and ahead of himself - if he even includes himself on the list. Greg Popovich also recognizes that he'd be a nobody, coaching some obscure high school basketball team somewhere if it weren't for Tim Duncan so he would put TD ahead of himself on the Spurs most important list also.

Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2021, 02:52:58 PM »

Offline Timdawgg

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If Celts win a chip this year...Ainge in top 5?.. ;)
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Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2021, 03:25:25 PM »

Offline johnnygreen

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Celtics 5:
1.   Russell
2.   Bird
3.   Red
4.   Garnett
5.   Heinsohn

Lakers 5:
1.   Magic
2.   Kobe
3.   Kareem
4.   Shaq
5.   West

I don’t care how long Garnett was here, he was one of the most impactful players I have ever seen in a Celtics jersey (I’m 46). He completely changed the culture of the organization that is still there today. Speaking of which, not only did he lead the team to a title, but his high level of play throughout his Celtic’s tenure, helped pave the way to maintaining his high trade value, which eventually gave us Tatum and Brown. I know Pierce was also included in that deal, but KG was the main piece.

When I see “most important”, I also see “most influential”. I don’t know how any Celtics most influential list can be made without including Tommy, who bleed green.

Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2021, 03:29:55 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Regarding the Celtics, if it's the most "important" Celtics and not just best Celtic players, how can people not have Tommy Heinsohn on that list? 8 time champion in 9 years as a player. 2 time champion in 9 years as a coach. A 30 year career as a color commentator for the team. He will end up being a Hall of Famer 3 different times when he gets in as a television/media person.

1. Red
2. Russell
3. Bird
4. Cousy
5. Heinsohn

Re: Five “most important” Lakers historically
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2021, 03:54:20 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Regarding the Celtics, if it's the most "important" Celtics and not just best Celtic players, how can people not have Tommy Heinsohn on that list? 8 time champion in 9 years as a player. 2 time champion in 9 years as a coach. A 30 year career as a color commentator for the team. He will end up being a Hall of Famer 3 different times when he gets in as a television/media person.

1. Red
2. Russell
3. Bird
4. Cousy
5. Heinsohn

i think most people are judging this just based on their playing resume, at least i was.  If we're including coaching and front office accomplishments then yes that changes things.  I know Jerry West would move up on my lakers list.

As far as Tommy goes, I have a hard time regarding him as a most important player, yes, he was an 8 time champion, but how many of those go away if Russell isnt on the team?  If we swapped Tommy for another all star player, same position, do we still win 8 titles in 9 years.  If we lost Bill Russell but replaced him with another all star center are the celtics as successful?  I guarantee you we wouldnt be, not even close, not unless his name is Wilt.   I know this isnt a Russell/Heinsohn comparison but Im just trying to illustrate importance.  I love Tommy, but he was probably a replaceable componet on those teams

I think thats why no one mentioned James Worthy on their Lakers list, hes a great player, but I think if you swap him with another all star player, the Lakers dont lose too much.  But swap Magic Johnson with another all star and I dont think you can say the same thing
Greg