CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: droopdog7 on November 17, 2018, 10:52:35 AM
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Both of these guys are too erratic. They might be fine in a different role but if you’re looking for reliable glue type guys that can take us to the next level, we need different types of guys. And I wouldn’t be looking for some crazy return (like AD) or anything.
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A player who isn't as good as Brown.
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He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
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A worse looking future. Let's not trade away a talented 22 year old in a slump.
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To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
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To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
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Even if we win the title this year, there’s virtually no way we could bring this team back (resign Irving, Rozier, Morris, Theis, and renegotiate Horford). So the odds we see this exact team again are slim.
I think at some point Ainge will have to consolidate players or simply let them walk.
There’s the potential of four first-rounders as well (three will likely convey but let’s go Clippers!).
So although having too many assets is a good problem to have, it’s still a problem that Ainge is going to need to figure out.
He may let it play out this season if we really start steamrolling, but a trade, potentially a blockbuster, will be need to happen eventually. Picking up Yabu’s option was curious to me, but Ainge always has a plan.
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Even if we win the title this year, there’s virtually no way we could bring this team back (resign Irving, Rozier, Morris, Theis, and renegotiate Horford). So the odds we see this exact team again are slim.
I think at some point Ainge will have to consolidate players or simply let them walk.
There’s the potential of four first-rounders as well (three will likely convey but let’s go Clippers!).
So although having too many assets is a good problem to have, it’s still a problem that Ainge is going to need to figure out.
He may let it play out this season if we really start steamrolling, but a trade, potentially a blockbuster, will be need to happen eventually. Picking up Yabu’s option was curious to me, but Ainge always has a plan.
agreed. i think we will compress the roster and go for MORE quality over quantity. As you stated a big trade by next year. Even if we win the title this year, there’s virtually no way we could bring this team back (resign Irving, Rozier, Morris, Theis, and renegotiate Horford). So the odds we see this exact team again are slim.
I think at some point Ainge will have to consolidate players or simply let them walk.
There’s the potential of four first-rounders as well (three will likely convey but let’s go Clippers!).
So although having too many assets is a good problem to have, it’s still a problem that Ainge is going to need to figure out.
He may let it play out this season if we really start steamrolling, but a trade, potentially a blockbuster, will be need to happen eventually. Picking up Yabu’s option was curious to me, but Ainge always has a plan.
agreed. we will compress the roster with more top end quality over quantity by next year. maybe a AD trade. we could use a 3 point sharpshooter though this year coming off bench with MOOK, smart, theis
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Best I've got is.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9fwe5b5
Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown for Jonathon Issac and a late 1st/Low Second
I like Issac a lot, he would allow Tatum to slide to the 3 and provide more size at the 4 against the rapidly growing eastern conference. Issac could be free to develop as a low usage finisher and between the playmaking of Kyrie/Hayward/Horford.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih8AQzjnmvg Issac with the rejection!
Orlando considers it because Issac is redundant with Gordon and Jaylen could slide into the 3 with Terry getting an opportunity to start at the 1.
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We should have traded for Kawhi. That’s about the only deal I would have been okay trading Brown in.
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You just do not trade brown... the kid has a ton of defensive potential.. will score 15 a game this year which ia a year that the team tries to find chemistry and he is 21? Imagine him with his will to improve at 25...
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Best I've got is.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y9fwe5b5
Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown for Jonathon Issac and a late 1st/Low Second
I like Issac a lot, he would allow Tatum to slide to the 3 and provide more size at the 4 against the rapidly growing eastern conference. Issac could be free to develop as a low usage finisher and between the playmaking of Kyrie/Hayward/Horford.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih8AQzjnmvg Issac with the rejection!
Orlando considers it because Issac is redundant with Gordon and Jaylen could slide into the 3 with Terry getting an opportunity to start at the 1.
I want to like this deal, because I’m intrigued by Isaac – his size and his competitiveness. But man, have a look at his offensive statistics. He is on the Marcus smart level as a shooter – which is a real problem when you’re almost 7 feet tall. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/isaacjo01.html
I haven’t seen him play much but I’ve heard he settles for a lot of long to this – sort of looks like Marcus Morris except he doesn’t hit as many of them.
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We should have traded for Kawhi. That’s about the only deal I would have been okay trading Brown in.
I've gone back and forth on Butler a lot, I think I'm back in the camp, Boston should have made an attempt to acquire him (though with all those big dollar trades it is difficult to match especially without the ability to include Baynes or Smart at this point).
But yeah Leonard would have been great.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
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And if you are trading a talent like Brown you have to trade him for a better player like Davis or Kawhi or Durant or Butler. You can't replace Brown's contributions this year and next with unproven 2nd year players and mid 1st round draft picks.
Brown is the youngest player in Celtic history to score 30 points in a playoff game, and he did it twice. He was the Celtics best all around player in last year's playoffs. Some mid 1st rounder or unproven Jonathan Issac isn't going to be able to do that over the next two years and beyond when the C's should become the favorites to win the title.
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If you're not getting a monster talent like Davis, why would you even think of trading Brown this season? You're a favorite to get to the NBA finals, and he's your best edge defender, along with Smart. You don't give that up mid-season, unless you're making a mega deal to bring back one of the game's top 5 (give or take) players.
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No player is getting moved this season. This team doesn't need anything except to wait to round into form.
What happens with this roster after this season hinges on the result. If we lose before reaching the Finals, Brown, Rozier, Smart, and the 1sts will be on the block. If we win/lose in the Finals, we run it back with this roster sans Rozier.
I think a package of Brown and Rozier would've gotten us Kawhi, Butler, or George and if combined with the 2-4 1sts could be enough for AD (if things sour in NO (which is the only way they trade him)). Other than that or another superstar, trading Brown with the progress he's shown and still on his rookie contract would be foolish and unlike Ainge.
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It's not getting you very much anyway. At most their teasers.
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Nothing worthwhile if it isn’t part of a blockbuster type move
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Brown was great last year because I think he had more freedom to do his thing. With no Hayward, he was able to get plenty of repetitions and had a longer leash which helped him have a good season last year. With Hayward back, I just think he’s trying to adjust and is pressing when he gets an opportunity because he thinks he has to make it count with so many good players on the team. If he was on a worse team, he’d be getting the minutes and freedom to develop quicker imo.
I still think he’s and incredibly valuable piece and trade chip. But not sure why you would want to trade before seeing if he can figure it out with this group of players first.
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A pupu platter of good not great
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Nothing when you sell low...
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If you're not getting a monster talent like Davis, why would you even think of trading Brown this season? You're a favorite to get to the NBA finals, and he's your best edge defender, along with Smart. You don't give that up mid-season, unless you're making a mega deal to bring back one of the game's top 5 (give or take) players.
Completely agree with this.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
I pretty much agree. Brown is far from a dumb player. He needs to start hitting shots.
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Bron
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
Yeah, his feel is truly awful. It’s like he started playing 2 years ago, and he hasn’t got any consistency anyway
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NM.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
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Both brown and rozier are inconsistent at best. I don’t normally call for getting rid of players I think are not good but neither is a championship style player. Give me guys that are limited but play within themselves and the team and are consistent over guys that are athletic and erratic.
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Both brown and rozier are inconsistent at best. I don’t normally call for getting rid of players I think are not good but neither is a championship style player. Give me guys that are limited but play within themselves and the team and are consistent over guys that are athletic and erratic.
It's a good thing Danny and Brad know what they are doing and completely disagree with you.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown. He’s not so good as a complimentary player. And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
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Both brown and rozier are inconsistent at best. I don’t normally call for getting rid of players I think are not good but neither is a championship style player. Give me guys that are limited but play within themselves and the team and are consistent over guys that are athletic and erratic.
It's a good thing Danny and Brad know what they are doing and completely disagree with you.
We shall see abou that.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
That is true. But we do have plenty of playmaking options elsewhere - Horford, Tatum, Hayward, even Brown. My view is we could get Brown more comfortable just letting him be Westbrook on the second unit I guess...
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown. He’s not so good as a complimentary player. And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
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at this rate they may get you a bag of chips and a bottle of coke.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown. He’s not so good as a complimentary player. And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
Yeah, but they’ve both completely regressed and show no signs of any ability to adapt to their new roles. Brown has shown no ability to be a high usage player on a true contender is what I think droopdog was saying, and I can’t see how that’s a disagreeable point
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown. He’s not so good as a complimentary player. And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
Yeah, but they’ve both completely regressed and show no signs of any ability to adapt to their new roles. Brown has shown no ability to be a high usage player on a true contender is what I think droopdog was saying, and I can’t see how that’s a disagreeable point
Brown has been important to the defense, Brad would just throw him on someone like Kawhii.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown. He’s not so good as a complimentary player. And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
Yeah, but they’ve both completely regressed and show no signs of any ability to adapt to their new roles. Brown has shown no ability to be a high usage player on a true contender is what I think droopdog was saying, and I can’t see how that’s a disagreeable point
What the hell was he last year? He was the best player on the team in the playoffs that was one quarter away from the Finals when he was a high usage player at 21 years old. If ANYONE showed up for game 6 against Cleveland besides Rozier and Brown, the C's were in the Finals. No one. Not Morris, Not Horford. Not Smart. Not Tatum. Not Baynes. No one showed up to play in that game but high usage players Rozier and Brown almost brought that team to a series clinching win. Everyone seems to remember game 7 and forget game 6. Fact is Boston should have closed that series out in 6 except only Brown and Rozier played well and they were excellent.
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Brown, Rozier and Smart for a bonafide star. Otherwise, no.
If we can get a guy who's clearly the best player in the trade and can be kept long term, then great. Those 3 guys are going to make over $30M starting next year, and over $50M/year after that combined. We could use a veteran and I think Wanamaker can play.
Smart, Brown and Williams for Gobert? DPOY with 5 foot range still works in this league?
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford. He also has more attempts per game then he had last year. Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year. And even things like USG aren't much different than last year. The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford. He also has more attempts per game then he had last year. Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year. And even things like USG aren't much different than last year. The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
Exactly. His FGA is up by the smallest amount and he's even playing almost 2 less minutes than last season. However, his splits are truly abysmal. 36/27/65 are worse numbers than Smart's over his entire career.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
What are your thoughts on Rozier then?
I love Brown, and used to love Rozier, but this year Rozier has been stinking up the joint...
Rozier just isn't made to be a bench player. Even back in Louisville he always played best with the ball in his hands and s free reign with the ball. He has never shot well as a bench player. His best play came when he started all those games last year. He's just most successful as a high usage starting PG. I don't like him as a bench player. I think having the ball in his hands and controlling things masks a bunch of his deficiencies like not seeing the court well, not making great decisions and not being a very good passer. At this point you keep him for Kyrie injury insurance. Rozier is durable. Kyrie, not so much
Bench or not you could say the same thing about brown. He’s not so good as a complimentary player. And the point you’re missing is that neither is good enough to be a high usage player long term.
Brown was a terrific high usage player all last year as a #2 scoring option. He was also the best all around player on the team in the playoffs and scored 30+ twice. If all the players you love actually showed up to play in game 6 vs Cleveland, the C's would have been in the Finals. Know who showed up that night, Rozier and Brown.
Yeah, but they’ve both completely regressed and show no signs of any ability to adapt to their new roles. Brown has shown no ability to be a high usage player on a true contender is what I think droopdog was saying, and I can’t see how that’s a disagreeable point
What the hell was he last year? He was the best player on the team in the playoffs that was one quarter away from the Finals when he was a high usage player at 21 years old. If ANYONE showed up for game 6 against Cleveland besides Rozier and Brown, the C's were in the Finals. No one. Not Morris, Not Horford. Not Smart. Not Tatum. Not Baynes. No one showed up to play in that game but high usage players Rozier and Brown almost brought that team to a series clinching win. Everyone seems to remember game 7 and forget game 6. Fact is Boston should have closed that series out in 6 except only Brown and Rozier played well and they were excellent.
Well said nickagneta. It's still too early to consider trading Jaylen in any deal that doesn't land a legit superstar. I fully expect Danny to stay patient with this group. The only thing that could change the timeline is dissension in the locker room. Thus far I believe the group is committed to figuring things out without pointing fingers.
I'm also starting to think that Jaylen's struggles might be partially due to overconfidence during the off-season, which in turn lead to a less focused training schedule. His offensive game has never come naturally. It's going to take a few more years of summer 2017 focus in order for him to reach his true potential.
The T-Mac videos and Pro-Am would lead you to believe that he had the same level of commitment, but I'm not convinced that this is the case. Jaylen has had to work extremely hard to earn his spot up until now, so hopefully these struggles become a humbling experience in the long run.
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It would get Ainge ran out of town is what it would do. Holy kneejerk reaction Batman!
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At this rate their value is at all time low. I wouldn’t expect much value back.
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I used to think that come June/July 2019, maybe something like Brown + Rozier (S&T) OR Smart (12M) + Yabusele ($$$) + ALL the Picks could be something offered for Davis IF (big IF) he were to be made available.
But so far... yeah their value is at a low and won't even come close to a deal like that :P
Hard to tell. I think Rozier alone could still get decent value if traded to a team like the Suns before the deadline (and it looked likely that they could extend him after this season) but ultimately it's probably not like this past summer where Rozier and/or Brown could have been dealt in a package for a legit star (like Leonard).
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Brown, Rozier and whatever to get Davis, do it!!!
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They should not trade Brown for anyone less that a top-20 player who is locked up for a few years...which means that is basically no one.
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Brown's hands are too small and it's really hindering his ability to control the ball on shots, dribbling and dunks. Rozier needs a lot of mins to get into a groove...that's not happening here.
To Magic - Brown, Rozier, Theis and a pick.
To Celtics - Vucevic and Gordon. Gordon is already signed for 4 yrs.
Let Jabari Bird go and sign Courtney Lee
Vucevic
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
Irving
Smart
Lee
Semi
Gordon
Baynes/Williams
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They should not trade Brown for anyone less that a top-20 player who is locked up for a few years...which means that is basically no one.
This.
Regarding Rozier, I'm coming around to the idea of trading him. I was of the belief that we should keep him as Kyrie insurance, but now I don't think we would get past all three of Toronto, Philly, and Milwaukee without Kyrie any way. I'd rather have a pass first pg than Rozier at this point who can get other guys in position and distribute the ball. Rozier is hurting us and I don't see it improving.
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Brown's hands are too small and it's really hindering his ability to control the ball on shots, dribbling and dunks. Rozier needs a lot of mins to get into a groove...that's not happening here.
To Magic - Brown, Rozier, Theis and a pick.
To Celtics - Vucevic and Gordon. Gordon is already signed for 4 yrs.
Let Jabari Bird go and sign Courtney Lee
Vucevic
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
Irving
Smart
Lee
Semi
Gordon
Baynes/Williams
This Jabari issue is certainly taking a long time to get resolved. The holdup is leaving us with a roster spot in limbo. The NBA should have made a decision on this already.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford. He also has more attempts per game then he had last year. Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year. And even things like USG aren't much different than last year. The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/
Just scroll down
Kyrie 73.2
Horford 53.6
Tatum 45.3
Hayward 44.1
Morris 39
Smart 34.7
Brown 30.1
Last year Brown 38.9 touches
Last year touches in playoffs Brown 44.9
He is touching the ball nearly 25% less than last season and 33% less than last he played in the playoffs. It's pretty obvious he is forcing things and they using him as a #5 offensive option.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford. He also has more attempts per game then he had last year. Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year. And even things like USG aren't much different than last year. The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
Exactly. His FGA is up by the smallest amount and he's even playing almost 2 less minutes than last season. However, his splits are truly abysmal. 36/27/65 are worse numbers than Smart's over his entire career.
So because he is in an obvious shooting slump he has a low BBIQ. Smart has had horrible shooting stats his whole career, does that mean he has a low BBIQ
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right now ... box of Krispy Keme Donuts and couple coffees :P
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford. He also has more attempts per game then he had last year. Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year. And even things like USG aren't much different than last year. The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
Exactly. His FGA is up by the smallest amount and he's even playing almost 2 less minutes than last season. However, his splits are truly abysmal. 36/27/65 are worse numbers than Smart's over his entire career.
So because he is in an obvious shooting slump he has a low BBIQ. Smart has had horrible shooting stats his whole career, does that mean he has a low BBIQ
No, but I think there is a definite distinction to be made between offensive BBIQ and defensive BBIQ. If Brown had any ability to make plays for others like Smart does he’d cop a lot less flak. However, he has almost no playmaking ability, due to his low offensive BBIQ. He constantly misreads defences and takes pretty low quality shots. Last season he showed he had the talent to make plenty of those shots, but considering the slump he’s in his other flaws are more exposed.
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Brown's hands are too small and it's really hindering his ability to control the ball on shots, dribbling and dunks. Rozier needs a lot of mins to get into a groove...that's not happening here.
To Magic - Brown, Rozier, Theis and a pick.
To Celtics - Vucevic and Gordon. Gordon is already signed for 4 yrs.
Let Jabari Bird go and sign Courtney Lee
Vucevic
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
Irving
Smart
Lee
Semi
Gordon
Baynes/Williams
Don’t know if the Magic go for it, but this deal makes us a lot better. I’d probably rather Vuce off the bench where he could have the whole offence ran through him, and start either Baynes or Gordon, but that would make us very hard to stop.
The Bird situation is a complete mess. Hopefully resolved soon
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Brown's hands are too small and it's really hindering his ability to control the ball on shots, dribbling and dunks. Rozier needs a lot of mins to get into a groove...that's not happening here.
To Magic - Brown, Rozier, Theis and a pick.
To Celtics - Vucevic and Gordon. Gordon is already signed for 4 yrs.
Let Jabari Bird go and sign Courtney Lee
Vucevic
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
Irving
Smart
Lee
Semi
Gordon
Baynes/Williams
Don’t know if the Magic go for it, but this deal makes us a lot better. I’d probably rather Vuce off the bench where he could have the whole offence ran through him, and start either Baynes or Gordon, but that would make us very hard to stop.
The Bird situation is a complete mess. Hopefully resolved soon
Doesn't matter if Magic would go for it the salaries aren't even close to matching. Orlando $33 million. Boston $9.5 million
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This Jabari issue is certainly taking a long time to get resolved
If they’re waiting for the court case to be finished, there’s no guarantee that it’s resolved any time soon. The Celts may just have to eat the luxury tax hit.
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Brown's hands are too small and it's really hindering his ability to control the ball on shots, dribbling and dunks. Rozier needs a lot of mins to get into a groove...that's not happening here.
To Magic - Brown, Rozier, Theis and a pick.
To Celtics - Vucevic and Gordon. Gordon is already signed for 4 yrs.
Let Jabari Bird go and sign Courtney Lee
Vucevic
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
Irving
Smart
Lee
Semi
Gordon
Baynes/Williams
Don’t know if the Magic go for it, but this deal makes us a lot better. I’d probably rather Vuce off the bench where he could have the whole offence ran through him, and start either Baynes or Gordon, but that would make us very hard to stop.
The Bird situation is a complete mess. Hopefully resolved soon
Doesn't matter if Magic would go for it the salaries aren't even close to matching. Orlando $33 million. Boston $9.5 million
Oh yeah, it'd have to wait until next offseason when Rozier comes off his rookie deal.
Either way, I'd only really want Brown gone if we're nabbing AD next offseason
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford. He also has more attempts per game then he had last year. Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year. And even things like USG aren't much different than last year. The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/
Just scroll down
Kyrie 73.2
Horford 53.6
Tatum 45.3
Hayward 44.1
Morris 39
Smart 34.7
Brown 30.1
Last year Brown 38.9 touches
Last year touches in playoffs Brown 44.9
He is touching the ball nearly 25% less than last season and 33% less than last he played in the playoffs. It's pretty obvious he is forcing things and they using him as a #5 offensive option.
He had less touches than Irving, Tatum, Smart, Horford, Morris, and Monroe last year though as well. This isn't a new thing. You are just trying to come up with excuses for Brown's inexcusably bad play that just isn't there.
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I understand he's still raw and young. But at the same time...something is missing. I'm not seeing a slow steady improvement, never mind a burst of improvement. He disappears in total much too often having no effect on the game.
I'm hoping for a Victor Oladipo type of surge in the near future.
Brown had a giant burst of improvement last year. It's difficult to show much of an offensive improvement this year as he is being used exclusively as the 5th option on offense with the starters, which is the lineup he plays the most minutes with. He, along with everyone else, is still adjusting to their roles with a healthy Hayward and Irving being back on the team.
And he has definitely improved his defense this year as he is always given the other teams best offensive player to cover and does a stellar job. That doesn't even include the fact he has improved his handle for the second straight year and his passing is way better. He is making the right pass, on the money, almost every time he drives and is closed off for a layups.
Brown has been inconsistent but he has had to adjust more than any other player on the team. He went from a #1 or #2 offensive option last year to a #5 offensive option this year. But the kid is loaded with untapped potential. You don't trade him because he hasn't played like a superstar 15 games into this season. That's a hoorble over reaction move and one Danny Ainge would never make.
To the OP - Who's the other guy you're talking about...Rozier?
He's 22 years old, still raw, and yet has proved he can play at a high level in the playoffs.
It would be foolish to throw him away without getting something very valuable in return.
Precisely.
I wish I had been able to watch the first three quarters today, but couldn't cos of work...but from what I've heard, Brown played fantastic defense of Kawhii during those quarters. Brown has once again showed flashes this year on offense, sporting a cleaner stroke from three.
Down the stretch, Stevens probably went with Mook because of his size on defense against Kawhii and reliableness on offence. This is sensible for a team with finals aspirations - while Brown is far more talented, Mook has certain advantages. Brown is still just 22.
Oops. Yes, rozier the other guy. As for brown, we’ll come to a point soon where youth will no longer be used as a crutch for him. His basketball IQ is crazy bad. That’s not a good sign for a star.
You keep saying over and over again that Brown's BBIQ is low but just because you say it over and over again doesn't make it true. If his BBIQ was so low he would never have emerged as one of the best defenders in the league at 22. If his IQ was so low his handle and passing wouldn't have improved anywhere near that it has since his rookie year. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be the best cutter to the basket off the ball on the team. If his IQ was so low he wouldn't be making the proper defensive switches nearly every time. Brown's BBIQ is just fine if not very good.
Let me restate. Browns feel for the game is awful. And I keep saying it because it’s true. I don’t think it’s even a debatable point.
And people keep calling browna future star. He and Mitchell are basically the same age and their planets apart in terms of skill.
It's completely debateable and I think you're completely wrong. He was exceptional last year playing a role he thrived in. He is being asked to play a completely different role this year and has the least amount of touches of the starting 5. He's just been forcing things which has led him to be inconsistent.
I don't know about touches, but he has more shots then both Hayward and Horford. He also has more attempts per game then he had last year. Irving is the guy whose attempts are lower than last year. And even things like USG aren't much different than last year. The touches are there for Brown, he just isn't utilizing them.
https://stats.nba.com/players/touches/
Just scroll down
Kyrie 73.2
Horford 53.6
Tatum 45.3
Hayward 44.1
Morris 39
Smart 34.7
Brown 30.1
Last year Brown 38.9 touches
Last year touches in playoffs Brown 44.9
He is touching the ball nearly 25% less than last season and 33% less than last he played in the playoffs. It's pretty obvious he is forcing things and they using him as a #5 offensive option.
Touching the ball 9 more times is going to change how much he is sucking. Even with a reduce touches he still has the same usg and 3PT rate from last year.
He has poor feel and low BBIQ. It is showing right now.
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This Jabari issue is certainly taking a long time to get resolved
We should cut him and be done with it.
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This Jabari issue is certainly taking a long time to get resolved
We should cut him and be done with it.
I think we are waiting for the league to take care of it so that we don't have any legal issues with the player's union.
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I doesn't make sense to trade these two players as there isn't enough salary involved to get a good player back. Plus, I have not given up on Brown and I doubt the Celtics have either. I think he overachieved last season and is no doubt under achieving this season. I think we will soon see the player from last season again and for a long time. Maybe Brown and Rozier for Towns which works for salary but hard to believe that Minny would do it.
Jonathon Issac was mentioned. I would consider trading Rozier (something else would need to be included) for Issac but not Brown. We could use the size. I say consider because I don't really know how good he is.
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This Jabari issue is certainly taking a long time to get resolved
We should cut him and be done with it.
what if he is found innocent ? Ever hear of innocent before proven guilty? We live in America not Saudi Arabia
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This Jabari issue is certainly taking a long time to get resolved
We should cut him and be done with it.
what if he is found innocent ? Ever hear of innocent before proven guilty? We live in America not Saudi Arabia
Even if he’s acquitted there’s no way the Celtics keep him. He beat the hell out of a woman. There’s no denying that aspect of the case.
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I believe Brown and Tatum are pressing because Hayward is back and now Morris is playing well. They probably know everyone isn't going to be kept
I'm not sure Brown is going to hit that ceiling.
I'm liking what I see in Hayward being a playmaker until he gets all his athleticism back. I'd like to see the ball in his hands more because he's going to try and make the right play most of the time. Brown wants the "ohh-ahh" play verses keeping things simple.
I think it Tatum was given more post ups he would be deadly.
The money doesn't matchup to get Gordon from the Magic but I think the Magic roster is the one to target.