CelticsStrong
Celtics Basketball => Celtics Talk => Topic started by: CelticsElite on October 12, 2017, 03:03:20 PM
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Interesting.
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Got a link?
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I would absolutely feel the same way. As I mentioned in the other thread, IT truly gave everything he had and fully invested in every aspect of playing for the Boston Celtics. He has always been counted out and I'm sure the stability in Boston was a dream come true. Boston was way more than a basketball experience for IT and we should all appreciate his desire to become part of the community.
Imagine if LeBron bails on the Cavs after the season and IT isn't quite right after returning? I wish he would have kept the Ainge comments to himself but I can understand the way he feels. The fact of the matter is that he might end up getting the short end of the stick while the Celtics become a perennial title contender. I wish nothing but a full recovery for IT.
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It was his prerogative and he chose what he thought was best. Had he not played, people would have called him weak and certainly would have questioned his toughness. It was a no-win.
I am sure he loved being the leader of the best regular team in the EC, but he seemed more invested in getting paid as much money as he possibly could. He probably was hoping for a max contract from the Cs (best of both worlds), but that wasn't in the cards. Now he'll get the opportunity to prove himself on the current-actual best team in the EC. It's not like Danny traded him back to Sacramento; he put him in an excellent situation to succeed. Now it's up to him.
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IT has lost me now.
Dude, you consciously chose to play to further build your own brand in pursuit of a contract. C'mon man. Accept what happened like a man (you were traded for a younger more talented player) and move on.
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I am not sure that there is "no doubt" playing made the hip worse. Sure, he would have had a few more weeks of rest and playing didn't help but I am not so sure you can say definitively that it changed the overall healing process in a meaningful way. Maybe that is true, possibly even "probably" but no doubt?
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Did the Celtics put a gun to his head? Did they put a gun to Kevin McHale's head and make him play with a broken foot? He made the choice and it is what it is.
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If I was Lebron I'd have to ask him why he keeps talking about Boston? You're gone bro, move on. You're with a team that everyone predicts is going to be in the ECF so maybe you should spend more time here acclimating yourself to the group you have around you now. I get it. Isaiah felt larger than life as the new folk hero in Boston. Boston was HIS town and the Celtics were HIS team. His face was plastered everywhere. He felt right up there with Brady and Papi. He was being mentioned as one of the all-time Celtics greats. Now he's second fiddle. Cleveland belongs to Lebron. It's like your mom telling you you have to go live with your grandmother. You have your set of friends, your own room with posters up, decorated the way you want it to be decorated. You know grandma ain't going for that lol. You have to make new friends (which by the way these new friends are guys you were just trying to beat up not even a year ago). He may never be the same mentally again. One thing is for sure...if/when he gets physically right, he's going to try to score 90 on us! :laugh: :laugh:
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He probably cost himself millions of dollars giving his all for a team that promptly shipped him away. Don't blame him for feeling that way, especially now that the new season's starting up and he can't play.
However, it's absolutely not in his personality to ever do something like that, and I doubt it ever will be. He's a fighter.
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Part of IT's pre-season is building that chip.
Gotta get that chip as big as he possibly can.
The more he talks about Boston, the more he keeps us in the forefront, thats good for him. That's his motivation this season, to prove us wrong.
IT wont stop talking about Boston for a while I'm guessing.
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This could be part of the reason DA gutted the training staff and moved IT. No one did the right thing long term. Last year they were lucky to get were they got, and IT was the reason for it and he played threw hell, but there is a time when you must lose the battle to win the war.
I loved what IT did here and he was fun to watch, but something always nagged at me about his long term commitment and putting winning above all else. It's hard to say if playing last season was wanting to win, or wanting the big pay day and when he talks about the brinks truck instead of saying we will talk things out and come whats best for both parties, it rubbed me the wrong way. PP and KG you had no doubt they were Celtics from head to toe. IT, if the green was more green on the other side, he'd leave the C's in a heart beat in my opinion. I did 20 years of hiring people, and you just get a feeling about people after doing it for a while, to the point when the boss makes the final derision and you're against it and two months later you can do a "told you so".
By not sitting IT screwed the C's out of this season, and possible for longer if the hip doesn't get back to normal. If he was playing Ball by July, I have a feeling he'd still be here. DA had to make a move just in case. He wasn't going to wast a season with Hayward and Horford just to see it IT would come back and then sign a 3 year contract. He was right he owed it to them by not wasting their time for leaving their teams to come here.
And watching the starting unit last night, man Stevens has a fun system to watch, and if Irving can play like that 75% of the time, it's going to be a heck of a season. 20pt 10ast in 3 quarters....:)
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Kissing that brinks truck goodbye sooner than later if that was the case.
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Did the Celtics put a gun to his head? Did they put a gun to Kevin McHale's head and make him play with a broken foot? He made the choice and it is what it is.
Agreed. And at least in McHale's case he did it on an actual contending team. Did anyone think the C's had any shot of winning a title last year? Ainge certainly didn't and said as much.
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He probably cost himself millions of dollars giving his all for a team that promptly shipped him away. Don't blame him for feeling that way, especially now that the new season's starting up and he can't play.
However, it's absolutely not in his personality to ever do something like that, and I doubt it ever will be. He's a fighter.
This gives the impression that the C's asked him to play through the injury. I highly doubt if he didn't feel he should play, he would've had anything less than 100% support. Just like if he decided to be away from the team after his sister passed, people would've understood and supported him.
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He did say that he wanted to play following the death of his sister because he felt at peace on the court and it allowed him to cope with the loss.
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Interesting.
Yes. But everyone plays through injuries... <-- problem
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I am not sure that there is "no doubt" playing made the hip worse. Sure, he would have had a few more weeks of rest and playing didn't help but I am not so sure you can say definitively that it changed the overall healing process in a meaningful way. Maybe that is true, possibly even "probably" but no doubt?
I think the injury is a hip impingement with a labral tear, so yeah, playing on it probably made it worse. Playing on injuries pretty much always tends to make them worse, but especially tears and issues involving the hips/core. That's where you get your strength, so there's really no way to "favor" or play around it.
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Did the Celtics put a gun to his head? Did they put a gun to Kevin McHale's head and make him play with a broken foot? He made the choice and it is what it is.
Right...but then you can't complain when you hurt yourself so bad you might blow up the next season while expecting the team to unload a ton of cash to re-sign you.
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IT's sacrifice in playing through the injury no doubt pushed BOS further than what it would've gone if he would've shut it down for the playoffs.
We would've struggled VS CHI, and WAS would've beaten us.
Losing to WAS would've no doubt given Hayward (or any other FA) pause.
We were quite the successful image to the NBA and a solid FA landing spot - especially after courting Durant, KLove and Big Al.
IT was a HUUUGE part of that. Danny - in essence - capitalized off of IT's (and BOS) success to get to where we are now.
He indeed gave his all and has a right to be upset.
I'd hope, though, that he lets the wounds - physical and otherwise - heal.
I wish him the best.
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It should be a lesson for all players, particularly here: self before team.
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It should be a lesson for all players, particularly here: self before team.
Maybe health before team. I always put my long term health and family before business. IT is probably thinking he wished he did the same thing, though I doubt it would change the fact that he is now a Cav and not a Celtic.
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Enough already...
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It should be a lesson for all players, particularly here: self before team.
Maybe health before team. I always put my long term health and family before business. IT is probably thinking he did the same thing, though I doubt it would change the fact that he is now a Cav and not a Celtic.
I think self. Health, money, opportunity. Players should maximize whatever is best to them, to the detriment of the organization if necessary.
If there's no loyalty from an organization, why sacrifice for them? Hometown discounts, playing through pain, waiting your turn. Why would anybody do that?
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It should be a lesson for all players, particularly here: self before team.
Maybe health before team. I always put my long term health and family before business. IT is probably thinking he did the same thing, though I doubt it would change the fact that he is now a Cav and not a Celtic.
I think self. Health, money, opportunity. Players should maximize whatever is best to them, to the detriment of the organization if necessary.
If there's no loyalty from an organization, why sacrifice for them? Hometown discounts, playing through pain, waiting your turn. Why would anybody do that?
Yeah, we're very close to thinking the same thing. IT's problem was he was sure the team would sacrifice for him after the way he sacrificed for them. Big mistake on IT's part.
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How many former athletes out there??
I played through multiple injuries and WITHOUT a doubt I can say at no time was I thinking about anything but myself AS A PLAYER. If i was too injured to play I would sit, i.e. Hurt team or embarrass myself. If I could play at a solid level I would play. Maybe its different when the $ per game is millions (or whatever it is) instead of much lower amounts but when you hit a level the intensity of playing ever minute of every game means something.
I think IT should let it go, watch film until healthy enough to work on a part of his game and have a good season. Wish him well but this is getting old quick. All the rondo haters out there...rondo didn't react like this now did he?
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Okay, so then IT is trying to say that either he or his doctors went to the Brad and said he couldn't play?
And then he had to be convinced to play anyway against his better judgement?
Where were these follow up questions from the reporter?
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How many former athletes out there??
I played through multiple injuries and WITHOUT a doubt I can say at no time was I thinking about anything but myself AS A PLAYER. If i was too injured to play I would sit, i.e. Hurt team or embarrass myself. If I could play at a solid level I would play. Maybe its different when the $ per game is millions (or whatever it is) instead of much lower amounts but when you hit a level the intensity of playing ever minute of every game means something.
I think IT should let it go, watch film until healthy enough to work on a part of his game and have a good season. Wish him well but this is getting old quick. All the rondo haters out there...rondo didn't react like this now did he?
I was expected to return to play 2 weeks after my father died in high school. Didn't turn out that well. Heightened my appreciation for IT, though.
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How many former athletes out there??
I played through multiple injuries and WITHOUT a doubt I can say at no time was I thinking about anything but myself AS A PLAYER. If i was too injured to play I would sit, i.e. Hurt team or embarrass myself. If I could play at a solid level I would play. Maybe its different when the $ per game is millions (or whatever it is) instead of much lower amounts but when you hit a level the intensity of playing ever minute of every game means something.
I think IT should let it go, watch film until healthy enough to work on a part of his game and have a good season. Wish him well but this is getting old quick. All the rondo haters out there...rondo didn't react like this now did he?
Nice first paragraph. Everyone seems to be making this about money. I think Isaiah is just a competitor who played as long as his body would allow him to play. I think the only self centered aspect was that he loved being in the spotlight and loved being the face of the team in games of that magnitude. He did it because the fans loved him and he loved them. I really dont think he was thinking of a future financial reward by playing.
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It should be a lesson for all players, particularly here: self before team.
Maybe health before team. I always put my long term health and family before business. IT is probably thinking he did the same thing, though I doubt it would change the fact that he is now a Cav and not a Celtic.
I think self. Health, money, opportunity. Players should maximize whatever is best to them, to the detriment of the organization if necessary.
If there's no loyalty from an organization, why sacrifice for them? Hometown discounts, playing through pain, waiting your turn. Why would anybody do that?
Yeah, we're very close to thinking the same thing. IT's problem was he was sure the team would sacrifice for him after the way he sacrificed for them. Big mistake on IT's part.
I don't think he necessarily expected the team to sacrifice for him. He was blindsided, and may have preferred to be informed that he was being moved. Personally, I think he should've been part of the process after all he gave to the organization.
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IT4, just stop. You're playing next to one of the best players in the world. You will be contending for multiple titles as long as that guy is on the court next to you.
You should be thanking Ainge he traded you to Cleveland than say Detroit or the tough West.
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After Kyrie injured his knee in the playoffs 3 years ago, his dad had a non-team doctor look at it. That's what players should do with serious injuries.
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IT4, just stop. You're playing next to one of the best players in the world. You will be contending for multiple titles as long as that guy is on the court next to you.
You should be thanking Ainge he traded you to Cleveland than say Detroit or the tough West.
SW, you stop. You post on one of the best forums in the world. Your team will be contending for the next decade.
You should be happy that your fellow posters have anted-up 237 TPs to your credit.
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After Kyrie injured his knee in the playoffs 3 years ago, his dad had a non-team doctor look at it. That's what players should do with serious injuries.
Unfortunately, Isaiah's dad was not a former professional basketball player.
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I love IT, I really do.
I appreciate him to the point where, even in a Cavs jersey, I will still root for him (though will put Boston first, of course). I haven't felt that way about a player since Pierce and KG, that's how much love I have for Thomas and everything he did here.
But my patience is starting to wear thin with his constant whining, and it's getting to the point where it's starting to tarnish the overwhelmingly positive view I've had of him this entire time. He's starting to sound like Kevin Durant with his random media outbursts and finger pointing, and I'm it's starting to rub me the wrong way.
Please IT - you have made your feelings well know, and I think just about every Celtics fan understands and sympathises right now. Let it go. You are in Cleveland now, playing alongside arguably the best player in the world, on a legitimate championship contender - and instead of talking about your appreciation for Cleveland, your new teammates, and your new fans, all you're doing is Edited. Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing and whining about Danny Ainge.
Do yourself a favour - let it go. Yes I know it hurts that Danny traded you. I know that in your heart you believe you are every bit as good as Kyrie, and as such you see it as a stab in the heart to hear that Danny Ainge considered Kyrie to be a better player then you. You take that person. I get that. But even if you do consider yourself to be on Kyrie's level (and so you should!), even you cannot ignore the obvious:
1. Your contract is expiring, and Boston would struggle to afford to sign you to a max while also extending Smart/Tatum/Brown in the future
2. You are 28 years old PG on a team that has aspirations to be competitive for the next 5-10 years
3. You are a shoot first PG who depends heavily on athleticism, yet you are coming off a major season ending hip injury
Cast aside the "who is a better player" argument Isaiah, and put yourself in Danny's shoes. You have a chance to trade the above guy for another shoot first PG who plays the same style of game as you and is just as good as you, but:
1. Is only 25 year old (meaning a better fit for this young teams future success)
2. Is CURRENTLY healthy (yeah I know theres a history)
3. Has a game based more on skill and size then on athleticism (and hence a game less likely to age)
4. Is locked in for two more years on an relatively affordable (bargain really) contract
The decision if you are Danny Ainge is a no brainer. It's not personal - it's business. It's making the decision that will make this team viable for the longest possible time window.
So cry out the tears, lay in to the punching bag - do whatever you need to in order to get the emotions and the frustration out, so that when the camera is on you and the mic is in your hand, you can keep your comments professional.
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Noticed a lot of Celtics fans getting tired of IT and with good reason.
Lets destroy the cavs on tuesday
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crimson, I agree with just about all your bullet points. But Ainge owed it to IT to not blindside him. I don't see how it would've affected his ability to acquire Kyrie, and I can't think of any professional environment where that would not have been the decent thing to do in a comparable situation.
Noticed a lot of Celtics fans getting tired of IT and with good reason.
Lets destroy the cavs on tuesday
I'm sure we will if Kyrie brings his best confetti cupcake impression.
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I my self also loved IT on what he did for Celtics in general.
The energy, can start the spark and keep the engine rolling, but with adding Hayward even with out losing Bradley would not make us to the promise land, we may be able to have a peek, a step forward from last year but you will need all the luck in the world to get there.
plus he was traded to the team of the king! LBJ.... its not a team that would need to tank for 5 years. its a team that goes to the finals.
and this could be blessing in disguise for him cause all Cleveland needs to do is reach play off which is easily achievable... by the time he heals, then that's the time to show brink trucks again!!!!
I do think this is not the time for IT to go and whining... it sucks to hear it from him. especially when you loved what he did....
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It should be a lesson for all players, particularly here: self before team.
Maybe health before team. I always put my long term health and family before business. IT is probably thinking he did the same thing, though I doubt it would change the fact that he is now a Cav and not a Celtic.
I think self. Health, money, opportunity. Players should maximize whatever is best to them, to the detriment of the organization if necessary.
If there's no loyalty from an organization, why sacrifice for them? Hometown discounts, playing through pain, waiting your turn. Why would anybody do that?
Because for some people, it gives them more comfortable situations, plus they actually benefit more from it. Do you think Durant will regret taking hometown discounts? How about those Spurs stars?
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Did the Celtics put a gun to his head? Did they put a gun to Kevin McHale's head and make him play with a broken foot? He made the choice and it is what it is.
No, but that was a completely different situation. Really, the only thing that IT and McHale have in common is that they were both let down by the team's medical staff, imo. Obviously, we don't know to what, if any, extent that Lacerte and Show Me What That Twerk Doo knew and when they knew it, but with McHale our brilliant medical staff ::) didn't even know that Kevin had a stress fracture until Chicago's doctors examined him or looked at the x-rays or something, I don't remember, exactly, during the playoffs that year, and the reason why they were able to do so was that they knew exactly what to look for, given that as Jordan had suffered the same injury during the year before, whereas the clowns in Boston had been telling McHale that the pain was "all in his head" FOR MONTHS :o. I believe that Kevin called those idiots up after his consultation with Chicago's people and said, "My foot's broken!" and hung up.
In fairness, though, it's not like Lacerte and co. were all that better during those years, imo. I mean, they allowed Bird to play heavy minutes during the 89-90 season, including back-to-backs, and coming off of double achilles surgery, no less, and made the same mistake after the poor guy had had back surgery prior to his final season. I'm no medical expert, but isn't that just common sense?
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It should be a lesson for all players, particularly here: self before team.
Maybe health before team. I always put my long term health and family before business. IT is probably thinking he did the same thing, though I doubt it would change the fact that he is now a Cav and not a Celtic.
I think self. Health, money, opportunity. Players should maximize whatever is best to them, to the detriment of the organization if necessary.
If there's no loyalty from an organization, why sacrifice for them? Hometown discounts, playing through pain, waiting your turn. Why would anybody do that?
Because for some people, it gives them more comfortable situations, plus they actually benefit more from it. Do you think Durant will regret taking hometown discounts? How about those Spurs stars?
I've always found this term to be rather comical given that guys like Durant already make a ton in endorsements. It's not like they're making some incredible sacrifice, imo.
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I don't think Isaiah played solely for the Celtics, he played for himself too, let's not get deluded about that. Guys play cause they want to play.
IT played for himself cause:
- He wanted to prove that 5'9'' guy like him (unproven in the league history up to that point) can make a difference, be the man in the playoffs, that he isn't a .376 shooter that he was in his first 10 career playoff games. That was important to him so he could have more anchorage when requesting his much-desired max contract.
- He said it himself, that basketball court was his biggest safe haven during the times when his sister passed away. Basketball was his therapy to stay in one piece during this tough times. Everyone needs that one thing to stay sane/operational, he found his. I am glad he did.
- He recruited Al Horford, one summer ago, and Hayward this one, cause he wanted better/All-star teammates. He had no contractual obligations to do it. I will take that he wanted better teammates, leading to better team performance, leading to more probable accomplishments, leading to the future better position when negotiating a new contract.
I really respect Isaiah and I think that he was like a fresh water in the desert for us during the rebuild years. But when people get overly emotional, as he understandably did, they tend to twist (sometimes unintentionally) the truth. When he is trying to put Danny or the ownership down, he should be realistic, as he can't deny that they helped his career immensely and that both sides had a great and benefiting collaboration.
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I'm happy that we got Kyrie, but I also understand IT as well. Talking about he was hurt and he feels angry just shows that he realy loved Boston and Celtics. He found some kind of home here, became leader and other stuff. I also understand he's mad at Danny, because he also felt they two were connected in some way, by comunicating about all plans and roster and trades and everything... After all that, it's natural to feel betrayed. It's just that kind of business, where you always have to be careful and keep yourself on distance with emotions and connections with people. IT just stepped that line and mixed emotions with business. Probably he realises that now.
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I guess I read that quote different than most everyone else. I didn't read it as IT trying to put blame on anyone or accusing anyone of mistreatment. I just read it as an observation about his injury status now. It's worse because he played through pain in the playoffs. I don't think that's a controversial statement at all and I'm sure both he and the team were on the same page in terms of wanting him to play.
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I'm happy that we got Kyrie, but I also understand IT as well. Talking about he was hurt and he feels angry just shows that he realy loved Boston and Celtics. He found some kind of home here, became leader and other stuff. I also understand he's mad at Danny, because he also felt they two were connected in some way, by comunicating about all plans and roster and trades and everything... After all that, it's natural to feel betrayed. It's just that kind of business, where you always have to be careful and keep yourself on distance with emotions and connections with people. IT just stepped that line and mixed emotions with business. Probably he realises that now.
Kyrie was enough to move the needle. Top 25 year old 20 talent is not easy to get. DA was able to do it. IT will always be loved here. But he must move along and Leave Boston behind. I hope he plays well even against us as long as we win. I hope his Brink's truck happen to such a great guy. too
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IT has lost me now.
Dude, you consciously chose to play to further build your own brand in pursuit of a contract. C'mon man. Accept what happened like a man (you were traded for a younger more talented player) and move on.
Amen
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After Kyrie injured his knee in the playoffs 3 years ago, his dad had a non-team doctor look at it. That's what players should do with serious injuries.
Unfortunately, Isaiah's dad was not a former professional basketball player.
what does that have to do with anything?
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I would absolutely feel the same way. As I mentioned in the other thread, IT truly gave everything he had and fully invested in every aspect of playing for the Boston Celtics. He has always been counted out and I'm sure the stability in Boston was a dream come true. Boston was way more than a basketball experience for IT and we should all appreciate his desire to become part of the community.
Imagine if LeBron bails on the Cavs after the season and IT isn't quite right after returning? I wish he would have kept the Ainge comments to himself but I can understand the way he feels. The fact of the matter is that he might end up getting the short end of the stick while the Celtics become a perennial title contender. I wish nothing but a full recovery for IT.
Agreed. IT will aways be one of my favorite Celtics. I hope he comes back better then ever. He deserves to get paid.
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With all respect to IT...just like the Brinks Truck comment, please realize enough is enough. The trade happened, deal with it.
Each team tries to bring the best product they can to the table, pure and simple, nothing personal.
Just because a player "gives his all," doesn't assure him of a position for life with the organization. You would think he'd realize this after being traded 3 times now.
Get healthy, come back strong, do your thing.
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With all respect to IT...just like the Brinks Truck comment, please realize enough is enough. The trade happened, deal with it.
Each team tries to bring the best product they can to the table, pure and simple, nothing personal.
Just because a player "gives his all," doesn't assure him of a position for life with the organization. You would think he'd realize this after being traded 3 times now.
Get healthy, come back strong, do your thing.
you mean you aren't ready to erect an "IT " statue to put beside Red ....LOL
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IT4, just stop. You're playing next to one of the best players in the world. You will be contending for multiple titles as long as that guy is on the court next to you.
You should be thanking Ainge he traded you to Cleveland than say Detroit or the tough West.
Hmm... Kyrie begged out of "playing next to one of the best players in the world". Maybe that's not the number one priority for either Kyrie or Isaiah?