Author Topic: Al Jefferson (Official discusion thread for the 07/08 season)  (Read 41472 times)

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Al Jefferson (Official discusion thread for the 07/08 season)
« on: November 29, 2007, 12:17:48 PM »

Offline mainevent

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Edit - I hijacked this thread and made it the official Al Jefferson discussion thread.  wdleehi



I know this has been talked about a trillion times already, but after watching last nights game I have come to the conclusion that we should have kept Big Al in Green. I LOVE KG and all that he brings....leadership, focus, intensity etc. but KG has had TWELVE years in this league already. Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed, and that is only with the fact that we gave up one of the best big men in the league and WILL be for the next 12 years. I was very excited about the trade, but honestly, I would have shipped out Pierce, got back a quality player, kept our pick and picked Yi and built around Al. Done, end of story. We would have made the playoffs where anything goes and even if we had gotten knocked out in the first or second round, that would have been experience to build with.

Last night was the first full Minny game I have watched and afterwards I felt that we gave up something really special in Al Jefferson.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2007, 12:56:04 PM by wdleehi »
"Mosquitoes refuse to bite me....purely out of respect"

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 12:22:49 PM »

Offline celticmaestro

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"Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed"

we all will be, but for the love of God please no more al jefferson threads. please?

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 12:24:07 PM »

Online Celtic

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No offense, but that makes one of us.

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 12:24:22 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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We will not know if this was a successful move until either

1) the Celtics win a title

or

2) KG leaves the Celtics (whether by trade, FA or retirement)




Until then, there is little to really talk about.  Both players have their pluses and minuses. 

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 12:28:52 PM »

Offline CelticPride9

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"Yes, we will win more games with him, but anything short of a championship I will be HIGHLY disappointed"

we all will be, but for the love of God please no more al jefferson threads. please?
Agreed...we have be in limbo for the past 20 years....Kg gives us the best chance to win now versus a rebuilding mode...veterans win championships....not potential.  We all know Al is going to be something special, but there is a 10% chance that he even comes close to Kg's overall play.

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2007, 12:31:05 PM »

Offline RedsCeltics34

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Everytime Al Jefferson has a good game is there going to be a thread about him and how we should of kept him?...

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2007, 12:36:25 PM »

Offline CelticPride9

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Everytime Al Jefferson has a good game is there going to be a thread about him and how we should of kept him?...
Yes...how about a Kg appreciation thread...this guy has been nothing less then a MVP contender.  Do you think we would be 11-2 without the KG trade and have a shot at a title.  This is what we all have been waiting for....a legit chance at #17...Big Al may have got us there, but no sooner than 3 years down the road...

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2007, 12:42:50 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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The ideal player would be a 22 year-old Jefferson who could defend like KG.  Alas...

But I wish KG had some of Big Al's low post moves.  KG is primarily a jump shooter and quite frankly isn't as dangerous offensively as big Al. But on defense, KG is much, much better.

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2007, 12:51:53 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Since this is going to keep popping up anyways, why don't I just put a pin this one and make it the official 'Al Jefferson' thread?

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2007, 12:58:42 PM »

Offline fugazzi24

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Al Jefferson's defense is equal to Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph.  What makes the Spurs, Detroit, Chicago, Orlando, Miami, and to an extent Dallas so good.  They have a real defensive presence in the middle.  Why do the Suns never beat those teams, because they don't.  Al Jefferson is a semi-all-star player with some injury history, KG is top 5 PF ever.  Can we please bury this thread forever, I loved Jeff as much as anyone but the players are not comparable. 

Re: Al Jefferson (Official discusion thread for the 07/08 season)
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2007, 01:06:06 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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Let me put it this way - NBA teams score 90ish PPG, and grabs 40 or so rebounds either way. A reasonably talented go-to guy on any team will put up stats either way. So a 20/10 on a notoriously depleted Timberwolves team means very little beyond: (1) AJ is reasonably talented, and (b) he gets minutes.

The jury is still out on whether or not Jefferson has what it takes to win games (also known as 'carry a team'). Up to now, the team performance has been par, in a way: a weak team that gets no wins. My guess is we won't really know until KG retires, anyhow.

So yeah, maybe we gave up a Tim Duncan with 10+ years left in his career. But what if we gave up on a Zach Randolph?

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: Al Jefferson (Official discusion thread for the 07/08 season)
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2007, 01:40:29 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Ok let me address this the best I can.   I've always used the efficiency rating (I read it was Larry Bird's method back in the day) to determine the best statistical player in the NBA.  It's pretty common sense.  Points + rebounds + assists + blocks + steals.   Subtract missed field goals, missed free throws and turnovers.  I think I started paying attention to those stats back when NBA.com had Virtual GM (not sure if they still do it... just a form of fantasy basketball really) and they used that for determining the night's best performers.  I was suddenly enlightened to why some ball hog shooting 41% is a bit overrated (like Iverson or Walker back in the day).

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Efficiency.jsp

Every freakin year KG is #1.  He's dominant statistically.   This year he's #2 behind only King James.  We all see the impact that KG makes beyond the statistics.  He's an outstanding team player, he's an outstanding defender, he intimidates opponents and keeps his teammates focused, he consistently makes the correct and intelligent decision.   He's a brilliant player and impacts the game in every way imaginable.  We are 11-2 because of him.

Big Al statistically is the 15th best player in the NBA right now.   He's going to be fantastic.  He will never be on the level of Dwight Howard (or maybe even Greg Oden?), but he'll be a solid scoring and rebounding big man.   In a few years when KG has slipped and Big Al is nearing his peak (assuming nobody gets hurt), obviously Big Al will pass him at some point.   Al will learn how to impact the game more.   I don't expect he'll ever be on the level KG was, but he'll eventually pass an old and busted KG in terms of effectiveness.     And of course... some day KG will be retired and Big Al will (assuming he doesn't get hurt) still be kicking ass.

But heres the thing...  it's like squashing a butterfly in the past an changing the entire course of the future.  By trading for KG, Ainge just squashed the butterfly in the present.  Theres no telling what this will lead to.  We are a legitimate threat.  The Celtics are in the national consciousness.  They are at the forefront of popular teams in the NBA.   The team is one of the few that is pretty much carrying the league this season.  Come playoff time, the thought of the Celtics making a serious run at the title will be huge news.   We have suddenly developed a culture of winning and an aura of excellence. 

I always felt like the modern Boston Celtics has an excellent organization going for them.  I looked at them as a very professional team with solid owners willing to build a great team and entertaining experience for the fans, a GM who was at least in the top percentile of NBA GM intelligence and a staff that for the most part had a very pro situation happening.   I mean to say that... even as we were losing nobody got out of line.  We didn't have anyone barking to the media.  We didn't have any crap going on like the Knicks or anything happening like the Jail Blazers.  We had a solid, professional team.   For the most part we kept Ricky Davis in line.  Gary Payton came here and was impressed by how well run everything was.     The problem was just our players weren't there.   By bringing in Ray and KG, we have suddenly got excellence spewing out of every facet of the Boston Celtics.   We are a team reborn and one to take notice of.   

The Celtics had missed the entire modern era of NBA basketball, sports media and marketing.  This team has been irrelevant since before Michael Jordan won his first title.   The Celtics were meaningless.  By taking this step, we are back.   Heres my point:  There is no telling what this will lead to.  Perhaps we become a free agent destination.  Perhaps as KG ages and these 20 million dollar contracts evaporate, some kid like Kevin Durant sees Boston as a viable destination.   Amazing fans, amazing East Coast sports market, professional organization, a culture of winning and an aura of excellence.   We had to take this step to reach the forefront of modern sports.  From here on out, I don't see why we can't sustain it.  The franchise had become a joke.  Scoff at importance of relevance, but I think it will impact our future more than people anticipate.  Enjoy the fact that we are a contender now... and watch what happens now that the Celtics are on the map.   The league and the media is now understanding what it means to have a competitive basketball team in Boston...  It's a position worth getting into -- even at the cost of a mediocre, "under the radar" Al Jefferson future. 

Re: Al Jefferson
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2007, 01:57:14 PM »

Offline mainevent

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Everytime Al Jefferson has a good game is there going to be a thread about him and how we should of kept him?...

Yes
"Mosquitoes refuse to bite me....purely out of respect"

Re: Al Jefferson (Official discusion thread for the 07/08 season)
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2007, 03:58:26 PM »

Offline Who

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Can we have an Al Jefferson thread without KG in the discussion please?

Lots of people put a lot of hope and appreciation into this kid and are still very interested in how he does.

Just Al Jefferson talk please. Every Al thread gets ruined because people act as if it's a slight on KG.

Can we just talk about Al and how he is doing please?

Re: Al Jefferson (Official discusion thread for the 07/08 season)
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2007, 04:36:38 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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 By bringing in Ray and KG, we have suddenly got excellence spewing out of every facet of the Boston Celtics.   We are a team reborn and one to take notice of.    

Well. I don't see too much excellence spewing out of the head coach.  Fortunately, KG and Shuttlesworth are such intelligent players that even Rivers may not be able to screw it up.

LarBird 33, everything you say about the Celtics in your post (which I did not quote in its entirety) is true.  The only question is, for how long?  The Celtics went for the here and now.  It's like trading all your best young prospects for Johann Santana, which (if the rumors are true) both the Red Sox and the Yankees are thinking about doing. To what extent do you mortgage the future for the present?  It's a dilemma that every GM faces in every sport. 

We may not know for 2 years whether or not Ainge did the right thing.