Poll

Will the Pacers trade Domantas Sabonis before the upcoming trade deadline?

Yes
13 (61.9%)
No
8 (38.1%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Author Topic: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis  (Read 26982 times)

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Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2019, 03:07:03 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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The main difference between Jaylen Brown and Damontas Sabonis is rarity.

Every year there's always a 6-6 or 6-7 player in the draft that has star potential.

But it's not every year that you can find a 6-10 or 6-11 player with star potential.

There is so much wrong with this statement.

A) Its gonna be hard for Sabonis to be a star player given his defensive weakness. Almost every star big man has defensive ability, you have to reach such an absurd level like Jokic or KAT offensively to be a star big man I  you can't defend and even with those guys it will always be a liability to their team (KAT could still get better). I would say that Sabonis doesn't have star potential.

B) The above may be true, but if you actually look at the number of star (and potential star)wings vs bigs its pretty close. Not including guys drafted this year....

For bigs theirs KAT, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Gobert, Ayton, Giannis, Bagley, Porzingus, Collins, Turner, Markenen, Jackson, Vuc(borderline), Horford, Aldrige, Blake, Love,

For wings you have Lebron, Kawhi, George, Butler, Thompson, Doncic, Tatum, Brown(maybe), Middleton(Borderline), Gordon(maybe), Derozen(meh), Harris, Ingrahm

I compiled this list by going through the top 50ish nba guys n si's list, Ben Simmons and Siakim are debatable give  that they are "big" wings. The point is if its so much easier to find wings you would expect there to be more wings than bigs. Wings are rarer.

*Please no posts say "You missed this guy!" I might have missed guys, unless you have a half dozen 6'6-6'8 guys with star potential I missed it doesn't change the point.

You're missing the point.

The point is most human beings are not 6-10 or 6-11.

What I'm trying to point out is there are more good 6-6 to 6-7 players than 6-10 to 6-11 players every year.

Just look at the draft every year.

I'm not pointing out how many there are in the NBA, I'm pointing out that every draft there are lots of 6-6 to 6-7 players who have star potential.

If Jaylen Brown has superstar potential then no way the Celts trade him.

And like I said, if Brown agrees to a 4-year 100m deal, Celts should keep him.

There's just no way Jaylen Brown is a 30m per year player, no way!

So if Brown and the Celts can't agree on an extension, it's very obvious a team will offer Brown the max in the summer of 2020.

Ainge and the Celtics will be crazy to pay a player who only averages 13-14 points per game 30m per year.

The problem with your theory is that the reason bigs are more valuable is due to defensive importance, not an offense, and Jaylen can defend bigs better than Sabonis can. If it came down to one play and Al Horford or Giannis or Vucevic or even Embiid has the ball on the block, I'd rather have Jaylen covering him instead of Sabonis.

Jaylen has never successfully covered any of the bigs you mentioned.

I have seen Semi Ojeleye successfully containing Giannis in the 2018 playoffs, but not Jaylen.

Brad Stevens has also not used Jaylen on Embiid.

Same thing against Orlando, Brad didn't let Jaylen defend Vucevic.

So saying that Jaylen can cover bigs is simply not true.
That's not what he said. He said he rather have JB on them than Sabonis. As in Sabonis is that bad on defense.

Saying that Sabonis is bad on defense is false.

There's no scouting report on Sabonis that says Sabonis is bad on defense.
I don't need a scouting report, I watch games.

Only fair excuse Sabonis has is he isn't a PF and the miscommunication he has with teammates on a nightly basis does not help his defense.

I also watch games and my conclusion is he's not bad on defense like Kanter.

There's just no way Nate McMillan will give him that many minutes if he's bad on defense.
When your other options are Leaf and Young you play Sabonis.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2019, 03:07:42 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Quote
Domantas Sabonis: “Theres not really much to talk about. I know exactly how the Pacers feel about me now. They know how I feel about that. There’s not much more to say. I’ll let my agents do the rest of it, we’ll see what happens”

https://twitter.com/TEastNBA/status/1185600260137197569

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2019, 03:08:07 PM »

Online knuckleballer

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Here’s an article about his play during FIBA.  It mostly talks about his offense, but does have a little about his defense too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/tonyeast/2019/08/31/indiana-pacers-center-domantas-sabonis-shows-improved-skills-with-lithuanian-national-team/amp/

“Sabonis’ few reps defending perimeter actions have gone well. He’s played solid pick and roll defense, and while he has made some errors defending ball handlers, he has been better than expected defending away from the rim. Watch him cut off the pick and roll ball handler here:”

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2019, 03:39:54 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I wouldn't trade Brown for him.

Now, if they want to take Langford and a future 1st along with matching salaries, sure.
this is what popped into my head as a fair deal. Sabonis was invisible in the playoffs against us last year.  no way I'm giving up Jaylen for him who has stepped up in the playoffs the past 2 years.
He was just fine in the playoffs 2 years ago.  And even last year he didn't shoot well but still averaged 8.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, and 4 assists in 24 mpg against Boston.  Per 36 those numbers are fine, especially given his less than stellar shooting.  And to be clear only Al Horford had more rebounds in that series than Sabonis did and only Irving and Horford out-assisted him.

I’m just amused that you’d cite to the Celtics series, in which Sabonis had the absolute worst net rating of any Pacer, as any evidence of his quality.
He was better than Brown in that series.  And if you take one stat you can make them say whatever you want them to say.  His game score was 8.3, which was 4th best on the Pacers and tied for 5th on the Celtics.  Given he shot poorly that actually isn't that bad. 
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Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #79 on: October 19, 2019, 03:55:33 PM »

Offline Csfan1984

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Here’s an article about his play during FIBA.  It mostly talks about his offense, but does have a little about his defense too.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/tonyeast/2019/08/31/indiana-pacers-center-domantas-sabonis-shows-improved-skills-with-lithuanian-national-team/amp/

“Sabonis’ few reps defending perimeter actions have gone well. He’s played solid pick and roll defense, and while he has made some errors defending ball handlers, he has been better than expected defending away from the rim. Watch him cut off the pick and roll ball handler here:”
Good that they noted the foul trouble and miscommunications (though it was mostly offense turnovers). The more you read the more people blaim his struggles at trying to play PF. Even that was mentioned in the article. Seems they should go after a true PF and use Sabonis or Turner. That probably means they wouldn't want guys like Smart or JB unless it's a three way.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2019, 04:20:12 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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I wouldn't trade Brown for him.

Now, if they want to take Langford and a future 1st along with matching salaries, sure.
this is what popped into my head as a fair deal. Sabonis was invisible in the playoffs against us last year.  no way I'm giving up Jaylen for him who has stepped up in the playoffs the past 2 years.
He was just fine in the playoffs 2 years ago.  And even last year he didn't shoot well but still averaged 8.5 points, 7.3 rebounds, and 4 assists in 24 mpg against Boston.  Per 36 those numbers are fine, especially given his less than stellar shooting.  And to be clear only Al Horford had more rebounds in that series than Sabonis did and only Irving and Horford out-assisted him.

I’m just amused that you’d cite to the Celtics series, in which Sabonis had the absolute worst net rating of any Pacer, as any evidence of his quality.
He was better than Brown in that series.  And if you take one stat you can make them say whatever you want them to say.  His game score was 8.3, which was 4th best on the Pacers and tied for 5th on the Celtics.  Given he shot poorly that actually isn't that bad.

Oh come on how was he better than Brown? That's a ridiculous take.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2019, 04:23:59 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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The main difference between Jaylen Brown and Damontas Sabonis is rarity.

Every year there's always a 6-6 or 6-7 player in the draft that has star potential.

But it's not every year that you can find a 6-10 or 6-11 player with star potential.

There is so much wrong with this statement.

A) Its gonna be hard for Sabonis to be a star player given his defensive weakness. Almost every star big man has defensive ability, you have to reach such an absurd level like Jokic or KAT offensively to be a star big man I  you can't defend and even with those guys it will always be a liability to their team (KAT could still get better). I would say that Sabonis doesn't have star potential.

B) The above may be true, but if you actually look at the number of star (and potential star)wings vs bigs its pretty close. Not including guys drafted this year....

For bigs theirs KAT, Embiid, Jokic, Davis, Gobert, Ayton, Giannis, Bagley, Porzingus, Collins, Turner, Markenen, Jackson, Vuc(borderline), Horford, Aldrige, Blake, Love,

For wings you have Lebron, Kawhi, George, Butler, Thompson, Doncic, Tatum, Brown(maybe), Middleton(Borderline), Gordon(maybe), Derozen(meh), Harris, Ingrahm

I compiled this list by going through the top 50ish nba guys n si's list, Ben Simmons and Siakim are debatable give  that they are "big" wings. The point is if its so much easier to find wings you would expect there to be more wings than bigs. Wings are rarer.

*Please no posts say "You missed this guy!" I might have missed guys, unless you have a half dozen 6'6-6'8 guys with star potential I missed it doesn't change the point.

You're missing the point.

The point is most human beings are not 6-10 or 6-11.

What I'm trying to point out is there are more good 6-6 to 6-7 players than 6-10 to 6-11 players every year.

Just look at the draft every year.

I'm not pointing out how many there are in the NBA, I'm pointing out that every draft there are lots of 6-6 to 6-7 players who have star potential.

If Jaylen Brown has superstar potential then no way the Celts trade him.

And like I said, if Brown agrees to a 4-year 100m deal, Celts should keep him.

There's just no way Jaylen Brown is a 30m per year player, no way!

So if Brown and the Celts can't agree on an extension, it's very obvious a team will offer Brown the max in the summer of 2020.

Ainge and the Celtics will be crazy to pay a player who only averages 13-14 points per game 30m per year.

The problem with your theory is that the reason bigs are more valuable is due to defensive importance, not an offense, and Jaylen can defend bigs better than Sabonis can. If it came down to one play and Al Horford or Giannis or Vucevic or even Embiid has the ball on the block, I'd rather have Jaylen covering him instead of Sabonis.

Jaylen has never successfully covered any of the bigs you mentioned.

I have seen Semi Ojeleye successfully containing Giannis in the 2018 playoffs, but not Jaylen.

Brad Stevens has also not used Jaylen on Embiid.

Same thing against Orlando, Brad didn't let Jaylen defend Vucevic.

So saying that Jaylen can cover bigs is simply not true.
Semi did not contain Giannis. Giannis scored as he usually does when he was covered by Semi. Semi didn’t get torched by Giannis, and he did make a couple of highlight worthy plays, but in no way did he contain Giannis.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #82 on: October 19, 2019, 04:55:59 PM »

Offline Birdman

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Sabonis would be 3rd best player on this team behind Kemba and Tatum..get him
C/PF-Horford, Baynes, Noel, Theis, Morris,
SF/SG- Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Smart, Semi, Clark
PG- Irving, Rozier, Larkin

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #83 on: October 19, 2019, 05:20:53 PM »

Offline jambr380

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https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2019

Just look at the 2019 Draft from #1 to #14.

There's only 1 player 6-10 or taller drafted, Jaxson Hayes at #8 by the Pels.

10 players 6-6 to 6-8 got drafted in the top 14.

So it's very clear, bigs are harder to find than wing players.

Having Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Smart, and Langford on the roster is redundant.
It's not like the Celts don't have other wing players who are also great players.
In fact, Tatum and Hayward are better than Brown.
You add Smart to that mix and clearly there will not be enough shots and minutes for all of them.
Langford isn't even relevant yet.

So even if Brown is better than Sabonis as a basketball player, Sabonis is a better fit because the Celts already have too many 6-6 to 6-8 players and not enough quality bigs.

What we saw from preseason is the Celts are clearly lacking a quality big man.
I don't see how Sabonis is a better fit than Brown just because he is tall. Sabonis is a mid range big that can't play defense. Brown is a two way player that can guard four positions. Yes we have a few good 6'6 to 6'9 wings but only Brown can guard 4 spots and play the sg spot at a high level, those other guys can't.
 
 I don't consider Sabonis for Brown a fair deal even if Pacers are adding a 1st.

It's about the Celtics' needs right now. If Brown were to be traded, Smart becomes the starting SG and the hole at center is suddenly filled.

I don't know that that is the right thing or best thing but strictly in terms of fit for this team, it makes a lot of sense.
Did you read my whole post? Sabonis doesn't fit, as in fit the team's system. Brown is more versatile than Smart and has more upside than Smart. The swap doesn't help simply because we have guard depth. Sabonis is the same player Kanter is. Look at Kanter's advanced numbers when he played next to Adams they are a lot like Sabonis with Turner. Sabonis isn't a guy you give up a talent like Brown for.

I couldn't explain why I didn't really feel the need to trade for Sabonis, but you just cleared it up for me. We already have Kanter who is a very talented offensive big who is paid like $5M/yr. I would rather keep Jaylen and roll with Kanter than trade Jaylen for a marginal upgrade in Sabonis.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #84 on: October 19, 2019, 05:50:26 PM »

Offline Rondo9

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https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2019

Just look at the 2019 Draft from #1 to #14.

There's only 1 player 6-10 or taller drafted, Jaxson Hayes at #8 by the Pels.

10 players 6-6 to 6-8 got drafted in the top 14.

So it's very clear, bigs are harder to find than wing players.

Having Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Smart, and Langford on the roster is redundant.
It's not like the Celts don't have other wing players who are also great players.
In fact, Tatum and Hayward are better than Brown.
You add Smart to that mix and clearly there will not be enough shots and minutes for all of them.
Langford isn't even relevant yet.

So even if Brown is better than Sabonis as a basketball player, Sabonis is a better fit because the Celts already have too many 6-6 to 6-8 players and not enough quality bigs.

What we saw from preseason is the Celts are clearly lacking a quality big man.
I don't see how Sabonis is a better fit than Brown just because he is tall. Sabonis is a mid range big that can't play defense. Brown is a two way player that can guard four positions. Yes we have a few good 6'6 to 6'9 wings but only Brown can guard 4 spots and play the sg spot at a high level, those other guys can't.
 
 I don't consider Sabonis for Brown a fair deal even if Pacers are adding a 1st.

It's about the Celtics' needs right now. If Brown were to be traded, Smart becomes the starting SG and the hole at center is suddenly filled.

I don't know that that is the right thing or best thing but strictly in terms of fit for this team, it makes a lot of sense.
Did you read my whole post? Sabonis doesn't fit, as in fit the team's system. Brown is more versatile than Smart and has more upside than Smart. The swap doesn't help simply because we have guard depth. Sabonis is the same player Kanter is. Look at Kanter's advanced numbers when he played next to Adams they are a lot like Sabonis with Turner. Sabonis isn't a guy you give up a talent like Brown for.

I couldn't explain why I didn't really feel the need to trade for Sabonis, but you just cleared it up for me. We already have Kanter who is a very talented offensive big who is paid like $5M/yr. I would rather keep Jaylen and roll with Kanter than trade Jaylen for a marginal upgrade in Sabonis.

I mean this is a site that actively hates their own players.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #85 on: October 19, 2019, 06:06:02 PM »

Offline Big333223

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https://www.nbadraft.net/nba_final_draft/2019

Just look at the 2019 Draft from #1 to #14.

There's only 1 player 6-10 or taller drafted, Jaxson Hayes at #8 by the Pels.

10 players 6-6 to 6-8 got drafted in the top 14.

So it's very clear, bigs are harder to find than wing players.

Having Tatum, Hayward, Brown, Smart, and Langford on the roster is redundant.
It's not like the Celts don't have other wing players who are also great players.
In fact, Tatum and Hayward are better than Brown.
You add Smart to that mix and clearly there will not be enough shots and minutes for all of them.
Langford isn't even relevant yet.

So even if Brown is better than Sabonis as a basketball player, Sabonis is a better fit because the Celts already have too many 6-6 to 6-8 players and not enough quality bigs.

What we saw from preseason is the Celts are clearly lacking a quality big man.
I don't see how Sabonis is a better fit than Brown just because he is tall. Sabonis is a mid range big that can't play defense. Brown is a two way player that can guard four positions. Yes we have a few good 6'6 to 6'9 wings but only Brown can guard 4 spots and play the sg spot at a high level, those other guys can't.
 
 I don't consider Sabonis for Brown a fair deal even if Pacers are adding a 1st.

It's about the Celtics' needs right now. If Brown were to be traded, Smart becomes the starting SG and the hole at center is suddenly filled.

I don't know that that is the right thing or best thing but strictly in terms of fit for this team, it makes a lot of sense.
Did you read my whole post? Sabonis doesn't fit, as in fit the team's system. Brown is more versatile than Smart and has more upside than Smart. The swap doesn't help simply because we have guard depth. Sabonis is the same player Kanter is. Look at Kanter's advanced numbers when he played next to Adams they are a lot like Sabonis with Turner. Sabonis isn't a guy you give up a talent like Brown for.

Sabonis fits the team's offensive system like a glove. He's a skilled passer who can work away from the rim or close to it and he can be an anchor on the boards allowing the team to play smaller at other positions.

The problem is defensively but, as others have stated, he's a better defender than Kanter. Couple that with how much more versatile he is on offense (and his age) he'd be an upgrade of Kanter, for sure.

But there's just no evidence that Jaylen has successfully defended Centers and PFs in the NBA.

I wanted to make sure I commented on this. Jaylen has guarded a lot of PF's in the NBA. I remember him being the primary defender on Blake Griffin when the C's played Detroit last season and he switches onto PF's all the time and typically holds his own, as I recall.
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Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2019, 06:08:42 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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I'm not sure whether a Sabonis for Brown trade makes sense, but some of the criticism of Sabonis here is over the top. He's a more efficient scorer than Brown, better shooting percentage, better percentage from three, better free throw shooter, better rebounder and better passer. Brown is a more versatile defender, but folks here are underrating Sabonis' defense. He's significantly better than people are giving him credit for. He's not a star defender, but comparing him to Kanter is absurd. His advanced defensive stats are ok and he's very talented offensively. It is by no means a sure thing that Brown has a brighter future, in fact I suspect that many people who are not Celtic fans would give the edge to Sabonis.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2019, 06:34:56 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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Siakam got $130M  over 4 years so I guess that is what Sabonis wants.  I like the player and the roster balancing it would create but too rich for me if we have to trade Brown and pay that much.  Hard to see a deal in this.  Indiana doesn't really need Brown when they have Brogdan, Olidipo, and Warren.  Maybe Langford and a future pick?  Probably not enough.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #88 on: October 19, 2019, 06:54:22 PM »

Online knuckleballer

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Just for reference in their player rankings, ESPN has Brown 51 and Sabonis 63.  Sports Illustrated has Brown 68 and Sabonis 76.  So they both have Brown ranked a little higher than Sabonis, but it's close.

I think Sabonis fits the team needs better, but I'd like to see how Brown looks this season.  In limited preseason minutes, his ball handling and decision making looked improved.  Perhaps, this trade possibility will be worth looking at mid season.

Re: Rumor: Pacers are listening to trade offers for Domantas Sabonis
« Reply #89 on: October 19, 2019, 07:55:33 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Siakam got $130M  over 4 years so I guess that is what Sabonis wants.  I like the player and the roster balancing it would create but too rich for me if we have to trade Brown and pay that much.  Hard to see a deal in this.  Indiana doesn't really need Brown when they have Brogdan, Olidipo, and Warren.  Maybe Langford and a future pick?  Probably not enough.

Just saw something that said Sabonis won't take a penny less than Myles Turner's current deal. If the Pacers can sign him for 4 yrs / $72M, they should probably just do it and then figure out the logistics later.

Edit: here is the tweet from Grant Afseth(?):
According to a league source, Indiana Pacers center Domantas Sabonis is not willing to take "a penny less" than what Myles Turner received on his four year, $72 million contract extension.