It feels like people are changing their minds about Kyrie

[KGBirdBias]

Good people are finally coming around. Kyrie is a great talent but all I can ask is what has he done without Bron? He's won nothing and done nothing for a team when he's leading the team. So all of this infatuation with him hitting a big shot in the finals is overrated. Well so has Horry, Kerr, Paxson, DJ. Stop selling him as the main piece to a title.

Last night 13 point and 12 assist is what it should look like, but we don't always get that. He will never make a play for someone else in a playoff game for the final shot. He will shoot it even if he's triple teamed. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[Tr1boy]

Good people are finally coming around. Kyrie is a great talent but all I can ask is what has he done without Bron? He's won nothing and done nothing for a team when he's leading the team. So all of this infatuation with him hitting a big shot in the finals is overrated. Well so has Horry, Kerr, Paxson, DJ. Stop selling him as the main piece to a title.

Last night 13 point and 12 assist is what it should look like, but we don't always get that. He will never make a play for someone else in a playoff game for the final shot. He will shoot it even if he's triple teamed. 🤷🏾‍♂️

If he plays the way he did yesterday

Its gravy

He needs to trust his teammates. Pass the ball/wealth of the spotlight. Unless panic to score time. But even then not try to score on 3 defenders and pass the ball

But I have given up as to what he randomly tells the media. Nothing you can do with this. Maybe he will learn with age

[footey]

No Kyrie means no stopping Curry in the NBA Finals.

To beat superteams you need to form superteams.

How were the "superteam" Warriors built ?
By drafting good players and letting them develop into a great team.

That team not so super, only one championship. Became super signing FA Durant to get the other two and probably the next one.

[Donoghus]

I don't think anyone (like myself) who appreciates Kyrie as a talent has changed their mind about him as a player.

I won't speak for anyone, but I think it has more to do with Kyrie's future in regards to the Celtics success.

Tonight's win aside, if the Celts continue to struggle and they falter in the playoffs, then it's easier to assume Kyrie is gone.
The Celts will carry on with the rest of their roster, excluding any moves Ainge makes this summer.

If the Celts turns things around and go on a deep playoff run, then the narrative changes and Kyrie would be viewed as symbolic with the Celtics success.

To me, it all ties into the Celtics success (or possible lack thereof) being contingent on Kyrie and how the season ends will be a major factor in Kyrie's free agency decision.

Sadly, this past week's struggles really resonated with the anti-Kyrie crowd, who have been in full force.

If they were winning, you wouldn't hear a single peep about Kyrie.

This where I'm at although I will disagree about with that last line.  You'd still have people taking shots at Kyrie on here.

[Roy H.]

I’m still on board with Kyrie.  I do think that he sucks as a leader, but the team is much better with him.

[Erik]

You’re missing the point. It’s ironic that your screen name is of the guy who wrote five disfunctions of a team (btw, I still believe that you’re a complete troll). The job of establishing team culture is not on Kyrie. Many successful teams and organizations have people who are just dicks and don’t play well with others. It’s up to management to correct this.

All of these threads about X is the problem are missing the actual overall problem. This team doesn’t maximize their strengths and hide their weaknesses as a team. Each possession isn’t about what is the best for the team it’s about who gets the glory. In order to be successful as a team, you need a lot of people that are willing to put their personal egos in the back seat and make plays that improve the team.

This falls on Brad Stevens as management. He may or may not be the leader, but he needs to help create a culture for the team. He may be a million times smarter than Doc Rivers, but one thing Doc knew how to do was team building and establishing team culture. The moment this group of individuals starts to play together as a team and have fun, they’re going to win a title. I have faith that they’ll figure it out before the playoffs.

I’m still on board with Kyrie.  I do think that he sucks as a leader, but the team is much better with him.

Not everyone has to be a leader. Leadership isn’t earned by being the best at something. This thought (usually in sports) that the leader is the best player is complete nonsense. The leader(s) are people who are leaders. It’s apples and oranges.

[NKY fan]

I really think people will change their minds about Kyrie if we pull off the Davis trade.  Davis will be 1A and Kyrie 1B.  Hayward should be much improved in his 2nd year back from injury.  If we can hold on to Smart and re-sign Horford, they will fit in beautifully since they don't need to score.  Rozier and his score first mentality will be gone.  The pieces will fit together much better than the current roster.  Winning fixes all.

What you’re describing is a slightly better team than what the pelicans were last year with cousins, holiday, Mirotic and rondo
They were good and probably would have achieved the same as we did last year but that’s not a title contender. ECF finalist is the ceiling of the team you’re describing.

[mobilija]

I really think people will change their minds about Kyrie if we pull off the Davis trade.  Davis will be 1A and Kyrie 1B.  Hayward should be much improved in his 2nd year back from injury.  If we can hold on to Smart and re-sign Horford, they will fit in beautifully since they don't need to score.  Rozier and his score first mentality will be gone.  The pieces will fit together much better than the current roster.  Winning fixes all.

What you’re describing is a slightly better team than what the pelicans were last year with cousins, holiday, Mirotic and rondo
They were good and probably would have achieved the same as we did last year but that’s not a title contender. ECF finalist is the ceiling of the team you’re describing.

Huh?

Are u saying Holiday, older Rondo, Mirotic and Cousins = Kyrie, Smart, Hayward and Horford?

Edit: I see you said slightly better.... 

[NKY fan]

I really think people will change their minds about Kyrie if we pull off the Davis trade.  Davis will be 1A and Kyrie 1B.  Hayward should be much improved in his 2nd year back from injury.  If we can hold on to Smart and re-sign Horford, they will fit in beautifully since they don't need to score.  Rozier and his score first mentality will be gone.  The pieces will fit together much better than the current roster.  Winning fixes all.

What you’re describing is a slightly better team than what the pelicans were last year with cousins, holiday, Mirotic and rondo
They were good and probably would have achieved the same as we did last year but that’s not a title contender. ECF finalist is the ceiling of the team you’re describing.

Huh?

Are u saying Holiday, older Rondo, Mirotic and Cousins = Kyrie, Smart, Hayward and Horford?

Edit: I see you said slightly better.... 

Slightly better is about right

[GreenFaith1819]

No Kyrie no contention.

He needs to continue to grow as a leader, though. That will come with time and patience.

This team - as presently constructed - can still win it all. I really believe that. I'm hoping that they turn it on in the post-season. If not - then I trust Danny to bring in the talent to do so.

[indeedproceed]

Do not care if we resign Kyrie anymore at all. Just want playoffs now.

[mobilija]

I really think people will change their minds about Kyrie if we pull off the Davis trade.  Davis will be 1A and Kyrie 1B.  Hayward should be much improved in his 2nd year back from injury.  If we can hold on to Smart and re-sign Horford, they will fit in beautifully since they don't need to score.  Rozier and his score first mentality will be gone.  The pieces will fit together much better than the current roster.  Winning fixes all.

What you’re describing is a slightly better team than what the pelicans were last year with cousins, holiday, Mirotic and rondo
They were good and probably would have achieved the same as we did last year but that’s not a title contender. ECF finalist is the ceiling of the team you’re describing.

Huh?

Are u saying Holiday, older Rondo, Mirotic and Cousins = Kyrie, Smart, Hayward and Horford?

Edit: I see you said slightly better.... 

Slightly better is about right

I’ll be shocked if any others agree with you. Holiday and Mirotic are a tier or two below any of Kyrie, Hayward or Horford. One could argue Rondo and Smart are about at the same level albeit with different skill sets. Cousins is stand out talent but in compArison to Horford it’s not that great considering Horford’s all around team game (I’d argue he is currently the Celtics most important, not best player).

Curious what others have to say.....TPs for opinions....

[RodyTur10]

I really think people will change their minds about Kyrie if we pull off the Davis trade.  Davis will be 1A and Kyrie 1B.  Hayward should be much improved in his 2nd year back from injury.  If we can hold on to Smart and re-sign Horford, they will fit in beautifully since they don't need to score.  Rozier and his score first mentality will be gone.  The pieces will fit together much better than the current roster.  Winning fixes all.

What you’re describing is a slightly better team than what the pelicans were last year with cousins, holiday, Mirotic and rondo
They were good and probably would have achieved the same as we did last year but that’s not a title contender. ECF finalist is the ceiling of the team you’re describing.

Huh?

Are u saying Holiday, older Rondo, Mirotic and Cousins = Kyrie, Smart, Hayward and Horford?

Edit: I see you said slightly better.... 

Slightly better is about right

I’ll be shocked if any others agree with you. Holiday and Mirotic are a tier or two below any of Kyrie, Hayward or Horford. One could argue Rondo and Smart are about at the same level albeit with different skill sets. Cousins is stand out talent but in compArison to Horford it’s not that great considering Horford’s all around team game (I’d argue he is currently the Celtics most important, not best player).

Curious what others have to say.....TPs for opinions....

Holiday is a borderline All Star, who's a better player than Horford. I like Hayward, but what he has shown this year makes him a high-end role player like Mirotic. Rondo and Smart I won't disagree with (those are two players whose impact are hard to evaluate). I definitely rate Irving higher than Cousins (even before injury).

So overall I think a 4 on 4 between Irving/Smart/Hayward/Horford and Rondo/Holiday/Mirotic/Cousins could be close, but since Rondo is inconsistent and Cousins makes bonehead plays, I'll give the edge to the Celtics. Nonetheless that starting line-up by the Pelicans last season was very good.

[gpap]

I don't think anyone (like myself) who appreciates Kyrie as a talent has changed their mind about him as a player.

I won't speak for anyone, but I think it has more to do with Kyrie's future in regards to the Celtics success.

Tonight's win aside, if the Celts continue to struggle and they falter in the playoffs, then it's easier to assume Kyrie is gone.
The Celts will carry on with the rest of their roster, excluding any moves Ainge makes this summer.

If the Celts turns things around and go on a deep playoff run, then the narrative changes and Kyrie would be viewed as symbolic with the Celtics success.

To me, it all ties into the Celtics success (or possible lack thereof) being contingent on Kyrie and how the season ends will be a major factor in Kyrie's free agency decision.

Sadly, this past week's struggles really resonated with the anti-Kyrie crowd, who have been in full force.

If they were winning, you wouldn't hear a single peep about Kyrie.

This where I'm at although I will disagree about with that last line.  You'd still have people taking shots at Kyrie on here.

Yeah, well those are just trolls who are going to bash Ky, not matter what he does.

[mobilija]

I really think people will change their minds about Kyrie if we pull off the Davis trade.  Davis will be 1A and Kyrie 1B.  Hayward should be much improved in his 2nd year back from injury.  If we can hold on to Smart and re-sign Horford, they will fit in beautifully since they don't need to score.  Rozier and his score first mentality will be gone.  The pieces will fit together much better than the current roster.  Winning fixes all.

What you’re describing is a slightly better team than what the pelicans were last year with cousins, holiday, Mirotic and rondo
They were good and probably would have achieved the same as we did last year but that’s not a title contender. ECF finalist is the ceiling of the team you’re describing.

Huh?

Are u saying Holiday, older Rondo, Mirotic and Cousins = Kyrie, Smart, Hayward and Horford?

Edit: I see you said slightly better.... 

Slightly better is about right

I’ll be shocked if any others agree with you. Holiday and Mirotic are a tier or two below any of Kyrie, Hayward or Horford. One could argue Rondo and Smart are about at the same level albeit with different skill sets. Cousins is stand out talent but in compArison to Horford it’s not that great considering Horford’s all around team game (I’d argue he is currently the Celtics most important, not best player).

Curious what others have to say.....TPs for opinions....

Holiday is a borderline All Star, who's a better player than Horford. I like Hayward, but what he has shown this year makes him a high-end role player like Mirotic. Rondo and Smart I won't disagree with (those are two players whose impact are hard to evaluate). I definitely rate Irving higher than Cousins (even before injury).

So overall I think a 4 on 4 between Irving/Smart/Hayward/Horford and Rondo/Holiday/Mirotic/Cousins could be close, but since Rondo is inconsistent and Cousins makes bonehead plays, I'll give the edge to the Celtics. Nonetheless that starting line-up by the Pelicans last season was very good.

Fair. TP