Kyrie Irving: Fixing Celtics Taking Shortcuts 'Up to Brad' Stevens

[PhoSita]

what about Brown?

To be honest I'm not especially attached to him.  I'm not convinced he's likely to thrive in Brad's system.  He's such a deliberate player.  He's not a very good shooter.  He's not a playmaker.  He plays a bit like a power forward but isn't especially tall, doesn't grab a lot of boards or force many turnovers.

I don't mind keeping him around, obviously, but I would also be fine with shopping him in order to find a replacement for Kyrie, for example.


I'd like to see the team try to forge an identity by having more guys similar to Smart. 

Tatum is the calm assassin type.  I think it's fine to have one guy like that.  I think if you have too many calm and quiet types, that can be a negative thing.  I think we've seen that this year with Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward trying to play together.

[gpap]

Honestly, if it comes down to either Irving or Stevens, I can take either scenario

I am always going to be a Celtics guy (like everyone else on this board) and unlike the Suns, Hawks and Bulls of the NBA, we are still a competitive playoff team trending upward (even with all the drama this season.) This season may end up being a huge disappointment, but the team will carry on next year.

If Stevens is shown the door, I think Tom Thibodeau will be a great coach for this team. I know he hasn't succeeded as a head coach BUT I am also not sure the players weren't as much at fault (if not more) than he was in Chicago and Minny. I think he would motivate this team to play defense and let's not forget who our assistant and defensive coordinator was in our championship year in '08. I also think he'd be better equipped to handle a superstar team with Kyrie and Davis (this would be my preferred avenue.)

But if Stevens stays and Kyrie leaves, I still think we'll be fine. It would upset me to see a talent like Kyrie leave Boston, but we'll survive. In that instance, I would assume Rozier becomes the full-time PG.

I also think Hayward returns to the starting line-up and becomes a far bigger part of the offense, like he was in Utah.
So we'd probably be looking at Rozier/Hayward/Tatum/Horford/a free agent center. Personally, I wouldn't mind someone like Dewayne Dedmon or Robin Lopez (probably the best we can afford, unless we make a trade.)

Smart, Baynes, Wannamaker, Theis and Ojeleye come off the bench. Morris is probably gone.

Maybe Ainge tries to move up into the top 5 of the draft. I could see a couple more pick ups in free agency.

Maybe that team has better cohesion and is in the top 3 with Milwaukee and Toronto. Maybe we get lucky and Kawhi leaves Toronto.

Right about now, I guess we have to keep an open mind to anything.

[Who]

Antoine Walker responding to last night's game & to Smart's post-game comments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhnSr-pAoqQ

Not having fun together. Not having leadership. Not showing necessary mindset / urgency post All-Star break.

[Who]

If Stevens is shown the door, I think Tom Thibodeau will be a great coach for this team. I know he hasn't succeeded as a head coach BUT I am also not sure the players weren't as much at fault (if not more) than he was in Chicago and Minny. I think he would motivate this team to play defense and let's not forget who our assistant and defensive coordinator was in our championship year in '08. I also think he'd be better equipped to handle a superstar team with Kyrie and Davis (this would be my preferred avenue.)

I love Thibs. I thought he did a great job in Chicago.

He was terrible in Minnesota though. Looks like he hasn't adjusted at all to the changes in the league over the last few years. The pace and space. The three pointers. Playing with only 1 legit big man.

I wouldn't hire at this point.

[PhoSita]

But if Stevens stays and Kyrie leaves, I still think we'll be fine. It would upset me to see a talent like Kyrie leave Boston, but we'll survive. In that instance, I would assume Rozier becomes the full-time PG.

Sweet baby Jesus I hope not.


I'd much rather try to attract a veteran like Jeremy Lin, Shelvin Mack, Darren Collison, or Ricky Rubio with the full MLE.

[PhoSita]

Antoine Walker responding to last night's game & to Smart's post-game comments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhnSr-pAoqQ

Not having fun together. Not having leadership. Not showing necessary mindset / urgency post All-Star break.

Yeah. 

This team is like when you step on what looks like a solid log in the forest and the limb gives way beneath your foot because it's soft and rotten, and when you look down there are dozens of wriggling insects pouring out of holes in the wood.

[Triplenickle]

what about Brown?

To be honest I'm not especially attached to him.  I'm not convinced he's likely to thrive in Brad's system.  He's such a deliberate player.  He's not a very good shooter.  He's not a playmaker.  He plays a bit like a power forward but isn't especially tall, doesn't grab a lot of boards or force many turnovers.

I don't mind keeping him around, obviously, but I would also be fine with shopping him in order to find a replacement for Kyrie, for example.


I'd like to see the team try to forge an identity by having more guys similar to Smart. 

Tatum is the calm assassin type.  I think it's fine to have one guy like that.  I think if you have too many calm and quiet types, that can be a negative thing.  I think we've seen that this year with Kyrie, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward trying to play together.

I think what you're seeing is Brad's inability to use his team's strengths...which is why I try not to get on the players.

Brown's pretty good all-around now, but he's like the forgotten man and it's an error to think he won't be atleast another JR Rider. That's pretty good for a 2 or 3

What's happening is the defensive scheme is being anticipated by everyone and they're all frustrated by that and feel all that running around is for nothing. And they are right...not Brad.

And they're always taking the ball outta the net, so they can't run...more strengths they can't use.

Brad is just the entire problem, and his stubborness to change is really undoable for a championship. I don't think he can take anyone to a title...maybe GS but honestly I think he would mess them up too.

Danny's part of the problem too, because he committed to a young team but keeps drooling over other players like he has some kind of syndrome...and keeps bringing in other guys to thwart their developement.

Danny needs to relax, man...and let those guys marinate to see what he really has. No one knows because none of those young guys has been able to be comfortable to just play and learn. It's always some bs, and always might be a trade.  That's not fair to them at all.

Personally Kyrie can do whatever the way I see it. If he walks and we don't get anything for him, it still wouldn't bother me.

What bothers me is Brad and his stubborness...and gimmicky unchanging system...and lack of seeing anything really.

Just too hard-headed and unchanging to be a good coach in the NBA.

[mspring]

My problem with showing Stevens the door is that I believe he is a great coach and I am not sure of any coach that wouldn't have struggled with the dynamics we have had this year; i.e. trying to weave two veteran players back into the team that had several young, talented players taste success last year.

Let's look at Doc Rivers as an example.  He gets the Orlando Magic to over achieve, a team that was picked to finish last in the league and they almost made the playoffs.  Then they get Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady and 2 years later they fire him because the expectations were much higher.  Then he goes to Boston and struggles with young players for several years, and many Celtics fans wanted him fired, but Ainge believed in him and went out and got Allen and Garnett and then Doc leads us to win the championship.  He then goes to coach a talented Clippers team and falls short of expectations, never even getting them to the Championship. It was with talented players like Griffin, Chris Paul, Deandre Jordan, JJ Redick that I heard a lot of people question Doc's coaching ability.  Now he is with a group of guys that are much less talented and accomplished and everyone has been raving about what a good coach Doc is. 

My point is that Doc has proven to be a good coach with young, less talented players in Orlando, and with established veterans in Boston.  But on the flip side he has also struggled with young, inexperienced talent during his first few years in Boston and he has struggled with talented established players in LA.  You could argue that Stevens has only proven he can coach well with younger, less talented players, but this is the first year he has ever coached in the NBA with more talented veterans and high expectations.  The problem is that there have been a lot of variables that have made this year very challenging.  I think it would be a big mistake to write him off and move on to another coach.  I do believe this has been a huge learning year for Stevens, but overall I still believe he is a great coach.  Once we get this off-season sorted out and see if Kyrie re-signs, see if we are able to land Anthony Davis and pair them both with a Gordon Hayward that is one year removed from a serious injury, I believe we owe it to coach Stevens to see what he can do with that kind of talent.  I'm not trying to give him a total pass on this year, but I feel he has proven himself by going though a very challenging rebuild in the sense that his first couple of seasons we were moving players constantly and he coached them incredibly well.  Let's not give up on a great coach too quickly and regret it later!

[gpap]

But if Stevens stays and Kyrie leaves, I still think we'll be fine. It would upset me to see a talent like Kyrie leave Boston, but we'll survive. In that instance, I would assume Rozier becomes the full-time PG.

Sweet baby Jesus I hope not.


I'd much rather try to attract a veteran like Jeremy Lin, Shelvin Mack, Darren Collison, or Ricky Rubio with the full MLE.

I wouldn't mind Mack or Rubio. I know Mack and Stevens have a relationship back to Butler and Rubio seems to have improved his game over the last couple seasons. I'd probably pass on Lin and Collison.

[gpap]

If Stevens is shown the door, I think Tom Thibodeau will be a great coach for this team. I know he hasn't succeeded as a head coach BUT I am also not sure the players weren't as much at fault (if not more) than he was in Chicago and Minny. I think he would motivate this team to play defense and let's not forget who our assistant and defensive coordinator was in our championship year in '08. I also think he'd be better equipped to handle a superstar team with Kyrie and Davis (this would be my preferred avenue.)

I love Thibs. I thought he did a great job in Chicago.

He was terrible in Minnesota though. Looks like he hasn't adjusted at all to the changes in the league over the last few years. The pace and space. The three pointers. Playing with only 1 legit big man.

I wouldn't hire at this point.

He's the only coach I can think of to lead this team to the next level. I can safely say that I don't want another college coach. Coaching college and coaching in the NBA is like night and day (as...we're finding out.)

[ozgod]

Are we seriously advocating for Stevens to be fired  Because the team has underachieved with a 37-24 record when everyone expected them to go 58-24?

I'm on record here as saying he has questions to answer and has failed to prepare the team to treat every game with the seriousness and effort it deserves, and he needs to be held accountable for that, but wanting him to be fired seems to be a bit of an overreaction? Especially since the season hasn't ended yet.

Doc started coaching in 2000, he won his championship in 2008. Pop started coaching in 1988, won his first championship in 1998. Phil Jackson started coaching in 1978, won his first championship in 1990, in his 7th coaching year with a break of 7 years in between.

Brad's been coaching what, 5 1/2 years? And first sign of real adversity we dump him? Or do we expect every coach to be like Steve Kerr, who won a championship his first year?

[Tr1boy]

If Stevens is shown the door, I think Tom Thibodeau will be a great coach for this team. I know he hasn't succeeded as a head coach BUT I am also not sure the players weren't as much at fault (if not more) than he was in Chicago and Minny. I think he would motivate this team to play defense and let's not forget who our assistant and defensive coordinator was in our championship year in '08. I also think he'd be better equipped to handle a superstar team with Kyrie and Davis (this would be my preferred avenue.)

I love Thibs. I thought he did a great job in Chicago.

He was terrible in Minnesota though. Looks like he hasn't adjusted at all to the changes in the league over the last few years. The pace and space. The three pointers. Playing with only 1 legit big man.

I wouldn't hire at this point.

He's the only coach I can think of to lead this team to the next level. I can safely say that I don't want another college coach. Coaching college and coaching in the NBA is like night and day (as...we're finding out.)

Thibs cant

Look what happened in minny

Kyrie is definitely a status guy

Oh you are an all star?? Oh you won a ring too?

So hiring a coach who won a ring or multiple ring as a player ... is prob the only way it works. Or a puppet coach like Lue

[smokeablount]

Are we seriously advocating for Stevens to be fired  Because the team has underachieved with a 37-24 record when everyone expected them to go 58-24?

I'm on record here as saying he has questions to answer and has failed to prepare the team to treat every game with the seriousness and effort it deserves, and he needs to be held accountable for that, but wanting him to be fired seems to be a bit of an overreaction? Especially since the season hasn't ended yet.

Doc started coaching in 2000, he won his championship in 2008. Pop started coaching in 1988, won his first championship in 1998. Phil Jackson started coaching in 1978, won his first championship in 1990, in his 7th coaching year with a break of 7 years in between.

Brad's been coaching what, 5 1/2 years? And first sign of real adversity we dump him? Or do we expect every coach to be like Steve Kerr, who won a championship his first year?

People aren't calling for him to be fired outright, they're asking if it came down to CBS & Kyrie, who would you keep?

It's not at all the same.  If necessary, choosing a Kyrie-Smart-Hayward-AD-Horford starting 5 is a viable option here.

[CF033]

Are we seriously advocating for Stevens to be fired  Because the team has underachieved with a 37-24 record when everyone expected them to go 58-24?

I'm on record here as saying he has questions to answer and has failed to prepare the team to treat every game with the seriousness and effort it deserves, and he needs to be held accountable for that, but wanting him to be fired seems to be a bit of an overreaction? Especially since the season hasn't ended yet.

Doc started coaching in 2000, he won his championship in 2008. Pop started coaching in 1988, won his first championship in 1998. Phil Jackson started coaching in 1978, won his first championship in 1990, in his 7th coaching year with a break of 7 years in between.

Brad's been coaching what, 5 1/2 years? And first sign of real adversity we dump him? Or do we expect every coach to be like Steve Kerr, who won a championship his first year?

People aren't calling for him to be fired outright, they're asking if it came down to CBS & Kyrie, who would you keep?

It's not at all the same.  If necessary, choosing a Kyrie-Smart-Hayward-AD-Horford starting 5 is a viable option here.

If I had to choose I would keep Brad Stevens without a second thought.

[gouki88]

If Stevens is shown the door, I think Tom Thibodeau will be a great coach for this team. I know he hasn't succeeded as a head coach BUT I am also not sure the players weren't as much at fault (if not more) than he was in Chicago and Minny. I think he would motivate this team to play defense and let's not forget who our assistant and defensive coordinator was in our championship year in '08. I also think he'd be better equipped to handle a superstar team with Kyrie and Davis (this would be my preferred avenue.)

I love Thibs. I thought he did a great job in Chicago.

He was terrible in Minnesota though. Looks like he hasn't adjusted at all to the changes in the league over the last few years. The pace and space. The three pointers. Playing with only 1 legit big man.

I wouldn't hire at this point.

He's the only coach I can think of to lead this team to the next level. I can safely say that I don't want another college coach. Coaching college and coaching in the NBA is like night and day (as...we're finding out.)

No thanks. I don’t want our players to have their careers shortened and ruined by Thibs’ inability to manage minutes - like Deng & Noah. I also think it’s led to a lot of his top players becoming more injury prone. Butler & LaVine spring to mind.

Wouldn’t trust Thibs with JB and JT