Author Topic: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown  (Read 6320 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2019, 09:58:32 PM »

Offline CptZoogs

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 585
  • Tommy Points: 79
Which assistant coach observed this?

Quote
Eastern Conference assistant coach: "Tatum has been a surprise for how he has been defensively. I think he has gotten better this year. He has a great wingspan, and I think struggling offensively, I think that maybe pushed him to give more effort defensively. He can guard 2-through-4, and he can clog passing lanes. He is a good help defender. He's never going to be elite defensively, but he is a positive on that end."

I didn't really see that aspect of growth to JT's game this season.
Seeing the opposite of what I see

All that matters is that potential trade partners see it.  Whether or not it aligns with reality is of secondary importance in my mind.  I think Tatum should get dealt this summer.  We need more balance in the roster.

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2019, 10:07:30 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7162
  • Tommy Points: 548
Wasn't one of the knocks against Tatum entering the league his athleticism?  From what I saw this season, I think he might be slightly below average athletically for an NBA player.  He's also soft. Drives me nuts when he gets the ball in the paint vs a guard and shoots a fallaway instead of using his size and long arms to his advantage by going over him.

This all said though, I don't necessarily want to give up on him because NBA players develop at different rates and many (or most) NBA observers think he has a very high ceiling.

If he is back here, I'd love to see him come to camp stronger and in great shape after spending the summer with a personal trainer. 

I do think that Jaylen started to figure things out this season after a poor start.  He's also older than Tatum, so maybe Tatum needs to be cut a little slack.

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2019, 10:09:03 PM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
Really surprised that people are writing off Brown as a role player, he's still 22 years old and is one of our best scorers in points per touch iirc, he posts up elite numbers in that stat.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2019, 11:02:05 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6395
  • Tommy Points: 752
Which assistant coach observed this?

Quote
Eastern Conference assistant coach: "Tatum has been a surprise for how he has been defensively. I think he has gotten better this year. He has a great wingspan, and I think struggling offensively, I think that maybe pushed him to give more effort defensively. He can guard 2-through-4, and he can clog passing lanes. He is a good help defender. He's never going to be elite defensively, but he is a positive on that end."

I didn't really see that aspect of growth to JT's game this season.

They were a better team with Tatum on the floor than with Brown, and most people believe Tatum regressed offensively, so he had to be doing something right.

Jayson Tatum wasn't a good defensive player this year. These eyes saw bucket after bucket because Turnstyle Tatum was out of position or was a step late. He is definitely not a positive on that end.

I think the conversation is fun. A year ago most would pick Tatum. I like Tatum's potential slightly more than Brown's, mostly because its a scoring league. We are fortunate to have two young wings that should carry value on the trade market.

How about we have two young wings who can lead our title contention for the next several years, along with Hayward, Horford, Smart, Williams, along with select role players and a playmaking point guard.
The Four Celtic Generals:
Russell - Cowens - Bird - Garnett

The Four Celtic Lieutenants:
Cousy - Havlicek - McHale - Pierce

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2019, 12:12:22 AM »

Offline action781

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5218
  • Tommy Points: 610
Which assistant coach observed this?

Quote
Eastern Conference assistant coach: "Tatum has been a surprise for how he has been defensively. I think he has gotten better this year. He has a great wingspan, and I think struggling offensively, I think that maybe pushed him to give more effort defensively. He can guard 2-through-4, and he can clog passing lanes. He is a good help defender. He's never going to be elite defensively, but he is a positive on that end."

I didn't really see that aspect of growth to JT's game this season.

Last postseason, Tatum showed a bit of an ability to play in the passing lanes and get steals which turned into breakaway dunks.  I think this season, Tatum showed that he has a genuine knack to make those kinds of plays and it wasn't just a few lucky plays last postseason.  I wouldn't say he's an improved overall defender though.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2019, 12:51:20 AM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6974
  • Tommy Points: 466
Well, if we want Davis they both may need to go. And that’s a cheap price for a talent like Davis.

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2019, 12:58:15 AM »

Offline RPGenerate

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4626
  • Tommy Points: 468
Which assistant coach observed this?

Quote
Eastern Conference assistant coach: "Tatum has been a surprise for how he has been defensively. I think he has gotten better this year. He has a great wingspan, and I think struggling offensively, I think that maybe pushed him to give more effort defensively. He can guard 2-through-4, and he can clog passing lanes. He is a good help defender. He's never going to be elite defensively, but he is a positive on that end."

I didn't really see that aspect of growth to JT's game this season.

They were a better team with Tatum on the floor than with Brown, and most people believe Tatum regressed offensively, so he had to be doing something right.

Jayson Tatum wasn't a good defensive player this year. These eyes saw bucket after bucket because Turnstyle Tatum was out of position or was a step late. He is definitely not a positive on that end.

I think the conversation is fun. A year ago most would pick Tatum. I like Tatum's potential slightly more than Brown's, mostly because its a scoring league. We are fortunate to have two young wings that should carry value on the trade market.

How about we have two young wings who can lead our title contention for the next several years, along with Hayward, Horford, Smart, Williams, along with select role players and a playmaking point guard.
They aren't leading us to anything other than first round exits and a couple of second round beatdowns. Small chance that either of those guys become players worth buiilding around.
2023 No Top 75 Fantasy Draft Los Angeles Clippers
PG: Dennis Johnson / Jo Jo White / Stephon Marbury
SG: Sidney Moncrief / World B. Free
SF: Chris Mullin / Ron Artest
PF: Detlef Schrempf / Tom Chambers / Buck Williams
C: Ben Wallace / Andrew Bynum

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2019, 10:28:14 AM »

Offline MichiganAdam

  • Derrick White
  • Posts: 260
  • Tommy Points: 16
Well, if we want Davis they both may need to go. And that’s a cheap price for a talent like Davis.

If they get both players they get less picks IMHO.  Be different if Davis has 2-3 years left on his deal, rather than a rental.  The issue is salaries.  As most good teams, the C's are "top heavy" in their salaries, with 3 big salaries and then alot of cheap deals.   Smart is really the only mid range guy.  As far as fit, the C's have 4 guys(JT,JB,GH,MS) for 2 positions, and are really 1 starting caliber big short, as AB is really a good backup 5.  AD in theory is an Ideal fit, but his salary is tough without gutting the roster.

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2019, 11:39:42 AM »

Online Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 48608
  • Tommy Points: 2429
Quote
GM 1: "Here's the thing: You can build a team around Jayson Tatum. He can be your No. 1 option. I really believe that. He can create for himself. He can get to his spots. He has a beautiful shot. But I don't know if you can win with Jayson Tatum as your No. 1 guy. So if you're rebuilding, you know, you have to think about that.

I don't like this line of thinking. Your No.1 option needs to be a better passer than Tatum is. Not just a 20ppg scorer. You can't run your offense through someone like that if they are not an above average passer. Tatum has to grow as a playmaker in order to become a player capable of being a No.1 guy.

Otherwise, your team's offense just stalls. You give your 20ppg the ball but it never comes back. Offense doesn't move. Too predictable and easy to defend. Some GMs focus too much on whether a guy can 20ppg and do not look enough for how well he passes. Gotta have both to be a good No.1 guy.

Otherwise you are just another Rudy Gay.

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2019, 11:46:19 AM »

Offline Monkhouse

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6932
  • Tommy Points: 814
  • A true Celtic plays with heart.
Quote
GM 1: "Here's the thing: You can build a team around Jayson Tatum. He can be your No. 1 option. I really believe that. He can create for himself. He can get to his spots. He has a beautiful shot. But I don't know if you can win with Jayson Tatum as your No. 1 guy. So if you're rebuilding, you know, you have to think about that.

I don't like this line of thinking. Your No.1 option needs to be a better passer than Tatum is. Not just a 20ppg scorer. You can't run your offense through someone like that if they are not an above average passer. Tatum has to grow as a playmaker in order to become a player capable of being a No.1 guy.

Otherwise, your team's offense just stalls. You give your 20ppg the ball but it never comes back. Offense doesn't move. Too predictable and easy to defend. Some GMs focus too much on whether a guy can 20ppg and do not look enough for how well he passes. Gotta have both to be a good No.1 guy.

Otherwise you are just another Rudy Gay.

Every time I see Tatum barrel into someone on the fast break instead of passing to Jaylen or Smart in the corner, it truly upset me.

It's like dude... I know you want to score, but do the right thing, and make your teammates happy by letting them score, and you get an assist...
"I bomb atomically, Socrates' philosophies and hypotheses
Can't define how I be dropping these mockeries."

Is the glass half-full or half-empty?
It's based on your perspective, quite simply
We're the same and we're not; know what I'm saying? Listen
Son, I ain't better than you, I just think different

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2019, 11:48:58 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Which assistant coach observed this?

Quote
Eastern Conference assistant coach: "Tatum has been a surprise for how he has been defensively. I think he has gotten better this year. He has a great wingspan, and I think struggling offensively, I think that maybe pushed him to give more effort defensively. He can guard 2-through-4, and he can clog passing lanes. He is a good help defender. He's never going to be elite defensively, but he is a positive on that end."

I didn't really see that aspect of growth to JT's game this season.
Tatum growth was stunted by Irving imo

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2019, 11:58:04 AM »

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
Tatum has a much better feel for the game.  He's a natural, smooth player.

Jaylen is much more mechanical and deliberate.


It's been interesting to see how that has played out -- Tatum looked like a natural born star in his rookie season, but now it seems that maybe the fact that the game seems to come naturally to him has allowed him to somewhat coast and just stick with how he wants to play the game.  He doesn't appear to have put in the work to change and add to his game, at least not so far.  He still takes your breath away at times.  He gives you the impression that he could score 30 points a game without breaking a sweat, like KD.  But Jeff Green also gave that impression sometimes, as does Andrew Wiggins.  Tatum is better than Green and Wiggins, but at this point it's mostly because he's a much better outside shooter.  Like Green and Wiggins, he doesn't get to the line or create for others, and his defense is inconsistent.

Brown, on the other hand, has very obviously had to work extremely hard to add NBA-level skills onto his foundation of superlative athleticism.  He has struggled mightily when his role has changed, but over time he works super, super hard to figure out how to find his spots and stand out in that role.  Jaylen isn't a "basketball genius" like Kyrie or a natural like Tatum, but in some ways you can feel better about where he will end up because he seems to understand that kind of focus and day to day work he needs to invest in order for him to earn the kind of role and recognition that he feels he deserves.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2019, 11:58:50 AM »

Offline Sophomore

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6227
  • Tommy Points: 823
Quote
GM 1: "Here's the thing: You can build a team around Jayson Tatum. He can be your No. 1 option. I really believe that. He can create for himself. He can get to his spots. He has a beautiful shot. But I don't know if you can win with Jayson Tatum as your No. 1 guy. So if you're rebuilding, you know, you have to think about that.

I don't like this line of thinking. Your No.1 option needs to be a better passer than Tatum is. Not just a 20ppg scorer. You can't run your offense through someone like that if they are not an above average passer. Tatum has to grow as a playmaker in order to become a player capable of being a No.1 guy.

Otherwise, your team's offense just stalls. You give your 20ppg the ball but it never comes back. Offense doesn't move. Too predictable and easy to defend. Some GMs focus too much on whether a guy can 20ppg and do not look enough for how well he passes. Gotta have both to be a good No.1 guy.

Otherwise you are just another Rudy Gay.

Agree. Passing is too often overlooked.

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2019, 11:59:11 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
Agree with Phosita's post, and I really believe that Brown can slowly add enough to his game that he becomes a superstar.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Coaches/GM's weigh in on Tatum vs. Brown
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2019, 12:01:20 PM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15986
  • Tommy Points: 1836
Brown has matured more this past year than Tatum. Has learned to discern his strengths/weaknesses and exploit the former, minimize the latter, better.  Maybe Tatum will get better of that next year. I hope so.

Also did anyone notice how Brown really improved his free throw shooting during the playoffs, culminated with going 6/6 in game 5? His overall FT shooting percentage through 9 playoff games (77%) was better than Tatum, Rozier, Smart and Morris. 

If he could become a high 70's/low 80's free throw shooter, wow.