Ray Allen for Diaw and Barbosa

[Brickowski]

I like Diaw.  He can defend (3 positions), rebound and pass. His problem is that whan Amare Stoudamire is healthy, Diaw never gets the ball.

On reflection, this would be a good deal for Boston, but I don't think Phoenix would do it. They can get players like Maggette or Cuttino Mobley for alot less. 

[amenhotep04]

Diaw cannot decide if he wants to play professional basketball, and Barbosa is not very smart.  Both have talent, but I don't see how they fit with the current Cs team.

[Brickowski]

One plays guard (and slides over to the point when Rondo is resting) and the other plays in the front court.

[zerophase]

i think your crazy. i want to keep my big three in tact at all costs, well unless, someone gives me chris paul for allen and rondo... then we're talkin.

[Mr October]

One plays guard (and slides over to the point when Rondo is resting) and the other plays in the front court.

Diaw and Barbosa, get exposed in the half court in the playoffs. Their performance routinely drops. Barbosa can not run a half court offense to save his life. Also, these 2 guys are in their ideal system in Phoenix. They will not be as effective elsewhere.

I'd much rather keep Allen. Aside from his play, his contract will become a valuable trade asset in a year. Or the salary opened up by its expiration will be very valuable, especially since the C's will want to resign Rondo and Perkins shortly after.

[fairweatherfan06]

Diaw what for?  Diaw is often disinterested and offensively he and Powe are the same (Powe for cheaper) Diaw is a superior defender but still he is often disinterested. and Barbosa he's Eddie House at a higher price (undersized 2 that tries to play PG).  Trade him for Ray?  Outside of youth what is gained exactly???

[Barnabas]

One plays guard (and slides over to the point when Rondo is resting) and the other plays in the front court.

Diaw and Barbosa, get exposed in the half court in the playoffs. Their performance routinely drops. Barbosa can not run a half court offense to save his life. Also, these 2 guys are in their ideal system in Phoenix. They will not be as effective elsewhere.

I'd much rather keep Allen. Aside from his play, his contract will become a valuable trade asset in a year. Or the salary opened up by its expiration will be very valuable, especially since the C's will want to resign Rondo and Perkins shortly after.

I agree with your last paragraph, Mr.October.  An expiring contract that huge can be very beneficial to us.  

One other thing to consider is that Ray Allen has the smarts and experience to help the Celtics in the crunch time moments of a playoff game.  It's an intangible, but something that Barbossa and Diaw do not yet have.  Those are two athletic and talented youngsters, but then we'd be in the same situation as the Lakers were in the Finals.  The Celtics are in contending mode, so really what's more important is the present.  Getting youngsters is probably not as important as getting proven players with experience.  

[RebusRankin]

Diaw has only shown up for about 20 games in the past two years since he got his big contract. Barbossa has played for 5 years and still can't run an offense. Pass.

[D Dub]

I just threw up in my mouth when I read the title for this thread.



I mean, we did just win the title in convincing manner, right? 


and Wasn't it Diaw who shot the season away in crunch time for Phx this year?  Dude is over-payed and over rated.  He got his pay day and has been coasting ever since.

[Brickowski]

Ray Allen is going to be traded in the next two years. His expiring contract is valuable, quite apart from his high basketball value.  Ray will be 33 next year.  The only question is, what's the right price?

The Celtics face a complete rebuild in 2 years.  Maybe they should start getting younger now.

[D Dub]

Ray Allen is going to be traded in the next two years. His expiring contract is valuable, quite apart from his high basketball value.  Ray will be 33 next year.  The only question is, what's the right price?

The Celtics face a complete rebuild in 2 years.  Maybe they should start getting younger now.

I think we will be a top team in the league for at least the next 2 years, which in my mind makes the word 're-build' out of the question. 

The way our 3 balance scoring and responsibility, they could stay competative straight through the end of KG's contract.  I wouldn't be against re-signing Ray if he stays healthy and we keep hanging banners.  It will certainly be a cheaper rate than we are paying now, and lets face it - Ray isn't going to forget how to stroke 3's anytime soon. 

[paintitgreen]

I'm absolutely shocked to see this. I know it's the age of sports reason and the Patriots and Red Sox have taught us it's not about loyalty, it's about winning, but here's the thing. We just won the title in Year 1 of what was supposed to be a 3-5 year window. Next year is the year we were picturing as the year where we had a legit chance to win it all. But we already got one! Just because we won one, we're ready to give up the shot at winning next year? Because, for the record, that's what this trade would do - give up a shot at repeating. I like Mr October's comments the most, I think, but a lot of people have (thankfully) been dousing the flames of switching things up now.

As has been pointed out, both of these guys are extremely inconsistent. They both flash star potential and have great skill sets, but it never comes together for either. Even Phoenix knows Barbosa is not a point guard, and not big enough or a good enough defender to play the 2 beside Nash. Rondo would mask Barbosa's defensive problems to an extent (Barbosa routinely gambles for steals, something that the Celtics defense does not do - which is why the steals record in Game 6 was so surprising - because the defense relies on everybody filling their roles) but he's still too small to put out there with Rondo. Picture our playoff run from this season. Ray was matched up against Joe Johnson, Wally Szczerbiak, Rip Hamilton and Kobe Bryant. Which one of those guys wouldn't absolutely abuse Leandro Barbosa based purely on the fact that Barbosa is only 6'3"?

Both guys are good bench players, and if we were trading a bench player, or even a starter at a position where we had a lot of depth, I'd consider this. But we're taking away one of our core six for two more guys to add depth, something we've already got a ton of, but not depth at our two biggest positions of need (for depth) - point guard and center. Why would we do it? (This is not even to mention that Diaw makes 9 mil the next 3 seasons, and probably won't be walking away from his $9 mil option in year 4, same with Barbosa with his 6.1-6.6-7.1 and 7.6 option, while Ray's contract expires in 2010.)

I see why Phoenix would do this - they have at best one more chance to win a title with Nash, Shaq and Amare (that's why people were talking about an Amare for Wallace and filler deal - they need guys who can win now). But for us? This makes no sense. It hurts our defense while providing minimal if any bonus on offense, plus we have to redo the whole chemistry thing we perfected last season. While the idea of bringing in more good, hungry players makes sense, nothing about Barbosa or Diaw suggests to me they're hungry to win a championship. I honestly don't think either could care too much less about an NBA title.

We want to trade the third best player on the NBA champion for the 6th and 7th men on a team that lost in the first round? What?

[Mr October]

Paintitgreen is on fire!!!
TP!

I really don't want to see the C's start "rebuilding" right away. Plus when rebuilding, as pointed out above, do we really want to lock all the $$$ up in a bunch of 6th and 7th men? I had enough of that crap in the freakin' 90s!!

When it comes to rebuilding, you have to focus on getting studs (either in the draft or through wise use of the cap). Rondo looks like a future stud piece. Perkins is a needed banger at the 5, the lone exception to the stud plan (since quality 5's are near impossible to get in a 30 team league). Other than that I want the C's to reduce payroll when Pierce/Garnett hang it up in 4 years or so.

[TrueGreen]

paintitgreen:  I'm absolutely shocked to see this. I know it's the age of sports reason and the Patriots and Red Sox have taught us it's not about loyalty, it's about winning,

This statement says it all. forget about the merits of trading or not trading. Ray Allen gave everything he had and is a Celtic in the true sense of the word. You don't trade a player like Ray Allen unless he requests it. This is what Red taught us. This is what got lost along the way. And this is what Danny and this Ownership has brought back. Loyalty is, in a way, an intangible. It doesn't show in the stats, but it does show in the results.

[pearljammer10]

Hey thats a great idea. Lets break up a third of the trio that just won the NBA championship with the best record.