Poll

Would you fire Trader Danny

Yes
18 (16.8%)
No
89 (83.2%)

Total Members Voted: 107

Author Topic: Poll: Fire Ainge  (Read 10961 times)

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Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2021, 10:57:36 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Interesting article by the Ringer today on Dannys drafting success:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/2/22308624/danny-ainge-boston-celtics

kind of confirms what I was preaching for the last 3 years that he did all this wheeling and dealing for not much in terms of improving the team. He did save Wyc a ton of $$$ though.

Danny fares very unfavorably compared with Connely, RC Bufford and Morey when it comes to drafting.
I still don't have a good explanation of why he insists on keep drafting these late picks given his draft record and that their expected win shares during their first 4 years are so low.

The financial constraints are not to be underestimated. Wyc lacks the deep pockets/tolerance of luxury taxes of certain wealthier owners.
He most certainly does not. He's not Steve Ballmer, but he can easily afford it
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2021, 11:39:53 PM »

Offline trickybilly

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Interesting article by the Ringer today on Dannys drafting success:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/2/22308624/danny-ainge-boston-celtics

kind of confirms what I was preaching for the last 3 years that he did all this wheeling and dealing for not much in terms of improving the team. He did save Wyc a ton of $$$ though.

Danny fares very unfavorably compared with Connely, RC Bufford and Morey when it comes to drafting.
I still don't have a good explanation of why he insists on keep drafting these late picks given his draft record and that their expected win shares during their first 4 years are so low.

The financial constraints are not to be underestimated. Wyc lacks the deep pockets/tolerance of luxury taxes of certain wealthier owners.
He most certainly does not. He's not Steve Ballmer, but he can easily afford it

It's not just Wyc, there is an ownership group that has massive investment liquidity. But Wyc's net worth is around $400 million.

We can go into the luxury tax if we need to.
"Gimme the ball, gimme the ball". Freddy Quimby, 1994.

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2021, 09:52:11 AM »

Offline Moranis

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Ainge has not found a star in the later parts of the draft, e.g. Giannis, Gobert, Draymond, Jokic, Siakam, Adebayo, etc.

Now, to be clear, there isn't a guy like that in every draft, and even when there is, usually at least half the teams in the league pass on the guy before he's drafted.  By definition that's how a guy ends up being a steal.  So it's not some black mark that Ainge hasn't found one.

At the same time, you could argue that finding a major hidden gem like that is the one remaining avenue the Celts have to go from a good-not-great team to one of the premier teams in the league, now that their young stars are on their second contracts and the cap sheet looks to be pretty full-up for the foreseeable future.  The fact that Ainge hasn't managed to do it in a long time is at least somewhat concerning.

Again, in what seems like 1,000 swings of the bat in his 17 years, the only Ainge draft pick to make a single All-Star game is Rondo.

That changed last week when two (great) picks he made got in. But those were both Top 3 picks -- the only Top 3 picks he's ever made.

Are we just ignoring that Tatum was an All Star last year?

Yep I was! Sorry.

Point is essentially the same. Ainge hasn't struck gold much (especially outside Top 3 picks).
Al Jefferson made the 3rd Team All NBA yet was never on an all star team.  That is strange as he also finished 8th in MVP voting that season.  Charlotte went from 21 wins to 43 wins by adding Jefferson.  Big improvement.  Yet didn't make the all star team.  That was basically his 22/11 season so certainly worthy of making the all star team.

Obviously Rondo was a 4-time all star.  Allen (6), Bradley (2), and Smart (2 and counting) all have multiple All Defense Team appearances.   

Ainge is hit and miss in the draft, but he has certainly nabbed some home runs along the way.  My biggest issue with his drafting is that he makes weird selections that don't seemingly fit the team.  Like taking KO on what looked like it was going to be a rebuilding team.  KO was a fine pick, but in 2013 the team didn't need the guy with the high floor and low ceiling.  He would have been great joining the 2008 team, but in 2013 he should have taken a flyer on a higher ceiling, lower floor type player as Boston was clearly rebuilding then.  And to trade up for him just compounded the weird decision.  And to be clear, I don't necessarily mean Giannis, Schroder for example would have made sense, and he wouldn't have needed to trade to land Schroder.  Perhaps it was the disaster that was Fab Melo that steered Ainge away from that sort of player again, but I really just don't get the reasoning. And then in 2014, Smart was fine, but then he takes Young, a low floor, high ceiling player when a much safer bet like Gary Harris was on the board.  I think Rozier was fine in retrospect (though I wasn't a huge Rozier fan), but RJ Hunter was a terrible pick at the time and in retrospect.  The next draft he just had too many draft picks and didn't correctly utilize them.  I mean Yabu and Zizic.  Blah.  At least he got a future 1st for the top pick in round 2.  All those picks are hit and miss, I just don't understand the reasoning behind taking certain types of players in the drafts he took the players in and don't like that he hamstrung himself by entering the draft with too many draft picks which limited his options on what he could do.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #63 on: March 05, 2021, 10:58:06 PM »

Offline GreenlyGreeny

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One more off-season. One more opportunity for Trader Danny to pull off a trade that puts us in the Finals in 2022 and hopefully brings us 18. If not, he痴 gotta retire and Zarren痴 gotta get his turn. Maybe Zarren will get along better with players and other GMs.

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2021, 10:35:26 PM »

Offline scottwedman

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20-20.

8-14 on the road.

Lost Hayward for nothing.

Unused trade exception.

Other assets not used while top FA (except mid-tier Kemba) sign everywhere BUT Boston.

Ainge has to go.

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2021, 10:39:40 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Ainge won't be fired.

But he has the next six months to turn this around.

If he fails to do that he won't need to be fired, because I think he'll end up resigning not long after the team completely loses faith in one another and they have to start trading core pieces for draft picks.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
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Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2021, 10:45:39 PM »

Offline Kuberski33

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Ainge won't be fired.

But he has the next six months to turn this around.

If he fails to do that he won't need to be fired, because I think he'll end up resigning not long after the team completely loses faith in one another and they have to start trading core pieces for draft picks.
He should be fired. This is his team. The holes have been obvious for 2 seasons and instead of improving, the team has gotten worse. Next step is for his star players to demand trades - then it can be a total rebuild. 

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2021, 10:52:09 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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Ainge won't be fired.

But he has the next six months to turn this around.

If he fails to do that he won't need to be fired, because I think he'll end up resigning not long after the team completely loses faith in one another and they have to start trading core pieces for draft picks.
He should be fired. This is his team. The holes have been obvious for 2 seasons and instead of improving, the team has gotten worse. Next step is for his star players to demand trades - then it can be a total rebuild.


He won't be. That's just the way it is. He has the backing of ownership. He badly misjudged this past offseason and seems to have laid the groundwork for a failed trade deadline as well.

He still has plenty of leeway remaining. But I believe that things can fall apart for a team like this much faster than any of us would like to think. It doesn't matter how many years Jaylen and Jayson have left. They've made several deep runs with this team and seem to be stagnating or even regressing instead of moving forward. These guys are going to check out and ask out.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2021, 10:53:06 PM »

Offline gouki88

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20-20.

8-14 on the road.

Lost Hayward for nothing.

Unused trade exception.


Other assets not used while top FA (except mid-tier Kemba) sign everywhere BUT Boston.

Ainge has to go.
Ainge has failed in aspects, but this is a funny contradiction
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2021, 11:00:34 PM »

Offline todd_days_41

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Dumbest thread ever.

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2021, 11:19:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Ainge has not found a star in the later parts of the draft, e.g. Giannis, Gobert, Draymond, Jokic, Siakam, Adebayo, etc.

Now, to be clear, there isn't a guy like that in every draft, and even when there is, usually at least half the teams in the league pass on the guy before he's drafted.  By definition that's how a guy ends up being a steal.  So it's not some black mark that Ainge hasn't found one.

At the same time, you could argue that finding a major hidden gem like that is the one remaining avenue the Celts have to go from a good-not-great team to one of the premier teams in the league, now that their young stars are on their second contracts and the cap sheet looks to be pretty full-up for the foreseeable future.  The fact that Ainge hasn't managed to do it in a long time is at least somewhat concerning.

Again, in what seems like 1,000 swings of the bat in his 17 years, the only Ainge draft pick to make a single All-Star game is Rondo.

That changed last week when two (great) picks he made got in. But those were both Top 3 picks -- the only Top 3 picks he's ever made.

Are we just ignoring that Tatum was an All Star last year?

Yep I was! Sorry.

Point is essentially the same. Ainge hasn't struck gold much (especially outside Top 3 picks).
Al Jefferson made the 3rd Team All NBA yet was never on an all star team.  That is strange as he also finished 8th in MVP voting that season.  Charlotte went from 21 wins to 43 wins by adding Jefferson.  Big improvement.  Yet didn't make the all star team.  That was basically his 22/11 season so certainly worthy of making the all star team.

Obviously Rondo was a 4-time all star.  Allen (6), Bradley (2), and Smart (2 and counting) all have multiple All Defense Team appearances.   

Ainge is hit and miss in the draft, but he has certainly nabbed some home runs along the way.  My biggest issue with his drafting is that he makes weird selections that don't seemingly fit the team.  Like taking KO on what looked like it was going to be a rebuilding team.  KO was a fine pick, but in 2013 the team didn't need the guy with the high floor and low ceiling.  He would have been great joining the 2008 team, but in 2013 he should have taken a flyer on a higher ceiling, lower floor type player as Boston was clearly rebuilding then.  And to trade up for him just compounded the weird decision.  And to be clear, I don't necessarily mean Giannis, Schroder for example would have made sense, and he wouldn't have needed to trade to land Schroder.  Perhaps it was the disaster that was Fab Melo that steered Ainge away from that sort of player again, but I really just don't get the reasoning. And then in 2014, Smart was fine, but then he takes Young, a low floor, high ceiling player when a much safer bet like Gary Harris was on the board.  I think Rozier was fine in retrospect (though I wasn't a huge Rozier fan), but RJ Hunter was a terrible pick at the time and in retrospect.  The next draft he just had too many draft picks and didn't correctly utilize them.  I mean Yabu and Zizic.  Blah.  At least he got a future 1st for the top pick in round 2.  All those picks are hit and miss, I just don't understand the reasoning behind taking certain types of players in the drafts he took the players in and don't like that he hamstrung himself by entering the draft with too many draft picks which limited his options on what he could do.

I think this is fair and agree with all of this. Really good point on the timing of the picks, especially Young. TP.

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2021, 11:29:36 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I think I'm landing on "this isn't going to change with this mix of players so they just need to make a change for the sake of making a change."

Keep Tatum and brown, obviously.

Try to keep Timelord and Pritchard.

I'd do what I can to trade everyone else.

Try to recapture that weird pre-Kyrie magic where most of the team was a bunch of castoff misfit toy veterans hungry to prove their worth.
You値l have to excuse my lengthiness葉he reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2021, 11:38:19 PM »

Offline scottwedman

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20-20.

8-14 on the road.

Lost Hayward for nothing.

Unused trade exception.


Other assets not used while top FA (except mid-tier Kemba) sign everywhere BUT Boston.

Ainge has to go.
Ainge has failed in aspects, but this is a funny contradiction

More paradox than contradiction.  Losing Hayward created the trade exception, but if it is not used and expires, it is a double failure.

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2021, 11:45:39 PM »

Offline gouki88

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20-20.

8-14 on the road.

Lost Hayward for nothing.

Unused trade exception.


Other assets not used while top FA (except mid-tier Kemba) sign everywhere BUT Boston.

Ainge has to go.
Ainge has failed in aspects, but this is a funny contradiction

More paradox than contradiction.  Losing Hayward created the trade exception, but if it is not used and expires, it is a double failure.
For sure, if it's not used then it would be a shocking mismanagement. And I'd be okay for DA to be really on the hotseat
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Poll: Fire Ainge
« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2021, 11:02:23 AM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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Ainge went from being top 5 to now top 10 GM. Losing Kyrie is the biggest issue i have. But him wanting to play with Durant may not have been over come. Sexton looked good last night and he could be on this team, Ainge has Moore and Semi of second round goodies. I still think Grant Williams will be a starter in the NBA. Romeo and Nesmith i think will do the 3 year Time Lord jump.
If we play Philly in the playoff and don't throw Taco at him. Why the hell is on the roster.
Ainge hopefully will make a move at the deadline. If we another All Star Player I still don't see us beating the Nets. SO should we build from within?

"People look at players, watch them dribble between their legs and they say, 'There's a superstar.'  Well John Havlicek is a superstar, and most of the others are figments of writers' imagination."
--Jerry West, on John Havlicek