Poll: Fire Ainge

[Moranis]

I don't think he should be fired, but I do think he should seriously consider retirement.

[PhoSita]

Heck to the no.

Celts could do far worse.

And I promise you in the not too distant future they will.

Someday we'll look back and miss having a competent GM.

[PhoSita]

What a disaster it is that we have Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown locked up for the near future, playing like All Stars. 

Too bad we didn't trade them for one year rentals of Jimmy Butler, Kawhi, or Anthony Davis! Man it would've been so cool to watch the team have an older All Star try to carry the team for a season before leaving after a disappointing playoff exit caused by lack of chemistry and continuity.  Shame!  2019 was a fun season, actually, and I'm just sad we haven't had more like it!

[Jiri Welsch]

Getting mad at Danny for things during the Big 3 era is way more legit than getting mad at him for anything in the last five years. He’s done the best “on the fly” rebuild you could ever ask for in a market like Boston (which doesn’t attract stars like NY or Cali markets do).

Also if you get rid of Ainge you have Zarren take the helm. Zarren and Ainge are pretty darn similar in their outlooks.

[NKY fan]

Interesting article by the Ringer today on Dannys drafting success:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/2/22308624/danny-ainge-boston-celtics

kind of confirms what I was preaching for the last 3 years that he did all this wheeling and dealing for not much in terms of improving the team. He did save Wyc a ton of $$$ though.

Danny fares very unfavorably compared with Connely, RC Bufford and Morey when it comes to drafting.
I still don't have a good explanation of why he insists on keep drafting these late picks given his draft record and that their expected win shares during their first 4 years are so low.

[tonydelk]

Ainge still has some left in the tank.  I do want him to retire versus losing Zarren.  Zarren is the heir apparent.  If the C's won a championship I think Danny would retire the next day.  I would not mind seeing Danny the President of basketball operations and Mike the GM. Let Danny take a step back and let Zarren run the show with Danny as his sounding board. 

[PhoSita]

The Ainge draft record has been combed over a million times.


He's done really well on the limited occasions he's had high draft picks.

His picks in the late lottery and beyond have been something like a coin flip for producing useful NBA players, which is a pretty solid to good level of success.  In general I think it's fair to say Ainge has done a good job identifying guys who can produce at the NBA level.

Since finding Al Jefferson and Rondo in the middle of the 1st round a decade and a half ago, he hasn't found any true gems / major steals in the draft. 


I definitely agree that using all of these draft picks has been a frustrating choice given that young players very infrequently provide value to winning in the first few years of their careers, and the team is trying to win now.  It's good to add at least one young player each season that you expect to give you good value in a couple years.  It's bad to have half your roster comprised of guys who aren't near their peak performance yet.

[todd_days_41]

on transactions? Ainge is a top 5 GM, probably top 3. could argue he's the best transactional GM in the game. Nets trade was one of the greatest ever, though the shine is off it a tad. and the Tatum deal was also exceptional, just to name a few.

he's just not on that level at draft. not even close really. until 2 weeks ago, he'd never drafted an All-Star other than Rondo. and yes, i know he doesn't pick in the top 10 much.

but overall he's obviously one of the best GMs in the league, and there's ZERO chance he's getting fired.

that said, he'll probably retire pretty soon.

[Moranis]

Interesting article by the Ringer today on Dannys drafting success:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/2/22308624/danny-ainge-boston-celtics

kind of confirms what I was preaching for the last 3 years that he did all this wheeling and dealing for not much in terms of improving the team. He did save Wyc a ton of $$$ though.

Danny fares very unfavorably compared with Connely, RC Bufford and Morey when it comes to drafting.
I still don't have a good explanation of why he insists on keep drafting these late picks given his draft record and that their expected win shares during their first 4 years are so low.

Interesting article.  The chart near the bottom was particularly interesting to me regarding teams making the conference finals 3 times in 5 seasons without winning one of those series and whether or not they eventually broke through.  The early 50's C's did, but they added Russell.  The Spurs and Bucks from the early 80's never broke through.  The Pacers and Jazz in the 90's eventually broke through and made the Finals, though obviously didn't win.  So that is it, only 5 teams in history made the Conference Finals 3 times in 5 years (without winning one) before the C's and the only teams to get at least 3 in 4 seasons before the C's was the C's in the Cousy, pre-Russell days, and the 80's Bucks.  The Pacers went 4 times in 6 years before finally making the Finals in year 7.  The Jazz ended up in back-to-back Finals directly after their 3rd in 5. 

[Wretch]

The Ainge draft record has been combed over a million times.


He's done really well on the limited occasions he's had high draft picks.

His picks in the late lottery and beyond have been something like a coin flip for producing useful NBA players, which is a pretty solid to good level of success.  In general I think it's fair to say Ainge has done a good job identifying guys who can produce at the NBA level.

Since finding Al Jefferson and Rondo in the middle of the 1st round a decade and a half ago, he hasn't found any true gems / major steals in the draft. 


I definitely agree that using all of these draft picks has been a frustrating choice given that young players very infrequently provide value to winning in the first few years of their careers, and the team is trying to win now.  It's good to add at least one young player each season that you expect to give you good value in a couple years.  It's bad to have half your roster comprised of guys who aren't near their peak performance yet.

 

Sullinger (until he ate his way off the team) and RWIII are both late round picks that have/are out performing their draft position, and Semi in the 2nd has out performed his draft position.  Then there are Glenn Davis, Dwight Powell and Etwan Moore who were DA players.  The KO pick gets killed because of Giannis but KO was a good pick where he was drafted. Pritchard is  looking like a plus pick for the position also. 

Not every pick is a homerun but that's solid drafting.

[footey]

Interesting article by the Ringer today on Dannys drafting success:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/2/22308624/danny-ainge-boston-celtics

kind of confirms what I was preaching for the last 3 years that he did all this wheeling and dealing for not much in terms of improving the team. He did save Wyc a ton of $$$ though.

Danny fares very unfavorably compared with Connely, RC Bufford and Morey when it comes to drafting.
I still don't have a good explanation of why he insists on keep drafting these late picks given his draft record and that their expected win shares during their first 4 years are so low.

The financial constraints are not to be underestimated. Wyc lacks the deep pockets/tolerance of luxury taxes of certain wealthier owners.

[Wretch]

Interesting article by the Ringer today on Dannys drafting success:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/2/22308624/danny-ainge-boston-celtics

kind of confirms what I was preaching for the last 3 years that he did all this wheeling and dealing for not much in terms of improving the team. He did save Wyc a ton of $$$ though.

Danny fares very unfavorably compared with Connely, RC Bufford and Morey when it comes to drafting.
I still don't have a good explanation of why he insists on keep drafting these late picks given his draft record and that their expected win shares during their first 4 years are so low.

The methodology they used is incredibly flawed.  JB was a draft miss per their criteria.

[PhoSita]

Sullinger (until he ate his way off the team) and RWIII are both late round picks that have/are out performing their draft position, and Semi in the 2nd has out performed his draft position.  Then there are Glenn Davis, Dwight Powell and Etwan Moore who were DA players.  The KO pick gets killed because of Giannis but KO was a good pick where he was drafted. Pritchard is  looking like a plus pick for the position also. 

Not every pick is a homerun but that's solid drafting.

Ainge has definitely found guys who exceed the value you'd expect from their draft slot.

That's not the same thing as finding a real gem, though.


Ainge has not found a star in the later parts of the draft, e.g. Giannis, Gobert, Draymond, Jokic, Siakam, Adebayo, etc.

Now, to be clear, there isn't a guy like that in every draft, and even when there is, usually at least half the teams in the league pass on the guy before he's drafted.  By definition that's how a guy ends up being a steal.  So it's not some black mark that Ainge hasn't found one.

At the same time, you could argue that finding a major hidden gem like that is the one remaining avenue the Celts have to go from a good-not-great team to one of the premier teams in the league, now that their young stars are on their second contracts and the cap sheet looks to be pretty full-up for the foreseeable future.  The fact that Ainge hasn't managed to do it in a long time is at least somewhat concerning.

[gift]

For those who think Ainge should be fired/retire: Do you think the Celtics should retain Zarren? How much of the Celtics situation do you attribute to Ainge vs. Zarren? Do you hope Wyc stays as controlling owner? How much of the current situation do you attribute to Wyc vs. Ainge/Zarren?

[NKY fan]

Interesting article by the Ringer today on Dannys drafting success:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/3/2/22308624/danny-ainge-boston-celtics

kind of confirms what I was preaching for the last 3 years that he did all this wheeling and dealing for not much in terms of improving the team. He did save Wyc a ton of $$$ though.

Danny fares very unfavorably compared with Connely, RC Bufford and Morey when it comes to drafting.
I still don't have a good explanation of why he insists on keep drafting these late picks given his draft record and that their expected win shares during their first 4 years are so low.

The methodology they used is incredibly flawed.  JB was a draft miss per their criteria.

Methodology is ok. Especially if you evaluate win now teams. The takeaway is - if you are competing in the nba but not tanking- you want to limit the number of rookies ( especially late draft positions) on your team because they only contribute to winning if they way overperform their draft position.
You draft 20 late picks and law of averages kicks in. You achieve a whole bunch of nothing.
 It’s interesting that average draft position for Ainge in the decade was at the top compared to other teams.
In other words you have to be really confident in your abilities to draft talent to justify making all these late picks and prove it was the right decision.